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About the Zune update, today's Apple news

Sep. 9, 2008 Paul Thurrott | Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows

So I'm in Redmond this week, as you may know. Yesterday, Microsoft was forced to prematurely announce the details of its upcoming Zune 3 platform when Fry's Electronics leaked details about the new devices and software features. (And here's that hi-res shot I was looking for.) To be clear, that is exactly what happened: Microsoft wasn't trying to "spoil" today's Apple event, at which the Cupertino company is expected to announce new iPods and a new version of iTunes. In fact, it's pretty obvious that Microsoft would have preferred to announce their new Zune wares after Apple.

Anyhoo. As ZDNet's Sam Diaz notes, today is a big day for Apple. Their event starts at 10:00 am PST. At that time, pretty precisely, I'll be talking to someone from the Zune team at the Microsoft campus. (They had Zune MVPs through campus yesterday.) It's a weird bit of timing, the Apple event and the meeting, that is, and not something I'd normally mention beforehand, but the cat is pretty much out of the bag on Zune 3, so there you go.

Regarding Apple's big day, it's pretty clear from the rumors that there's not much planned, from a product standpoint, and I see this as just another example of how the iPod market is maturing. NYT's always-excellent blogger, Saul Hansell, put it this way this morning:

Expect a lot of socks at Apple’s event Tuesday. iPod Socks are the sort of brand building fluff that Apple talks about when it isn’t changing the fate of humanity.

What an excellent way to put it. But I think the reason this is indeed a big day for Apple is, frankly, Steve Jobs. People are curious about the guy's health, and for good reason. And while Apple's penchant for secrecy may work wonders for product launches, it's not doing much to overcome investor fears about Jobs. If he looks OK today, at least one analyst has predicted that Apple's stock will skyrocket. Fair enough.

I can't wait to see what Apple announces, though I'm worried it won't be all that exciting. And I'm very curious to talk with the Zune folks about their underrated platform.

Discuss this Article 165

lotsamystuff
on Sep 9, 2008
Making "Skeletor Steve" look good today will require more botox than Cupertino can muster, methinks. Somebody give that boy a cheeseburger.
Dipsh t Admin
on Sep 9, 2008
If you are talking with the Zune team, tell them we want (or at least I want) Stereo Bluetooth, and the device will become a viable option for me.
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
The Zune isn't underrated...it ALWAYS gets high marks. Maybe Seinfeld can move a few...it's just that, as you said, the market has matured. I think they released it two years too late.
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
The Zune isn't underrated...it ALWAYS gets high marks. Maybe Seinfeld can move a few...it's just that, as you said, the market has matured. I think they released it two years too late.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
I must admit I'm amused that the rumored change to the iPod Nano looks almost exactly like a flash Zune with rounded edges. Either Apple decided that the Zune team got the form factor right and copied them or the people speculating about what their ideal Nano would look like decided it was a Zune. Guess we'll know whether it was photocopiers or fantasies in a few hours.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Paul I don't think you need to be too worried that it won't be all that exciting. If it was nothing but iPod Socks, you'd still see 1,200 "redundant news stories" (to use the Dvorakism) about Apple's revolutionary new design for iPod Socks and at least 200 saying, "Why can't Microsoft be this innovative about Zune Socks?"
pthurrott
on Sep 9, 2008
Ocean, fair enough. The problem with the Zune, I think, is that while they do offer some unique features, they also lag in certain areas. To be a true alternative, they need to be able to offer iPod owners a reason to want to switch.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Paul, But now that they've caught up in the only feature anyone really needs, and by that I mean, of course, support for Audible.com books, they're all set. Audible.com - For all your listening needs. :-)
shark47
on Sep 9, 2008
"Maybe Seinfeld can move a few" I would expect Zune to be mentioned in at least one of the ads. I think Zune is a "true alternative" to iPods at this point. The only problem is that people won't switch unless Microsoft offers something really remarkable or if Apple falters.
Dude1313
on Sep 9, 2008
Umm Mike you realize that form factor of the 2nd generation of the iPod Nano right?
gorath
on Sep 9, 2008
I'd like a zune, but i'm not in the US, so I can't have one.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Umm, Dude, you realize the generation 2 nano has a tiny landscape orientation screen and the Zune 4, 8 and 16 and the rumored Nano 4th Generation have a big, portrait oriented screen?
Dude1313
on Sep 9, 2008
The other thing that almost everyone (anywhere seems to miss) is this isn't a two horse race right now. Its a race for 2nd place and there are plenty of others out there fighting for #2. This is not to say that MS can't advance their standing with the market simply they are not competing for iPod users at this time IMHO. I'm also willing to bet by the time MS gets any traction in this market the DAP market will have morphed into a convergence device... hmmm there will be a market for DAP, but not like there is now.
Dude1313
on Sep 9, 2008
Mike- I get that. I'm merely pointing out the form-factor.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Dude That it's taller than it's wide is hardly "the form factor" Seriously, look at a flash Zune, an iPod Nano Generation 1 or 2 and the rumored Generation 4. Now, tell me the rumored Generation 4 doesn't look like a Zune with rounded right and left edges and a circle rather than a squircle control.
lotsamystuff
on Sep 9, 2008
"And while Apple's penchant for secrecy may work wonders for product launches, it's not doing much to overcome investor fears about Jobs. If he looks OK today, at least one analyst has predicted that Apple's stock will skyrocket. Fair enough." Gruber writes: "Spoiler: Jobs will be on stage, in his usual role. But he remains just as thin as he was in June. This isn’t some sort of state secret, though. Jobs is a common presence on the Apple campus. He eats in the cafeteria, he walks around between buildings. He’s not and has never been a recluse." I suppose the analysts unwilling to do the necessary 30 seconds of research* won't recognize this fact, though, and will express shock at Jobs' appearance. *For clarification: I'm NOT talking about Paul.
rjohn05
on Sep 9, 2008
Zune platform is pretty underrated. It's sad. In some ways I think it is better than the iPod. I have an iPod Touch. I wish it did some of the things the Zune does. But as Paul pointed out, MS has not done enough to make me want to switch.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
rjohn05 Remember, though, that the flash Zunes compete against the iPod Nano line and not the much more high-end Touch line. The question isn't "Has Microsoft offered enough to get a Touch owner to switch to Zune" but "Has Microsoft offered enough to get a Nano owner to switch to Zune"
bettieblu
on Sep 9, 2008
@Dude you will have to forgive Mike, he is the resident super poster and has to always be right. Someone even posted a cartoon about that once. When the Zune 4/8 gig models came out, almost every single review said that it took the iPOD 2gen form factor that Apple left behind for the Fat Nano/3g. So yes the Zune copied the 2g Nano, and now Apple has gone back to it....with the bigger screen.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
bettieblu You see I have to post so often because people like you don't bother reading the posts and restate things that were already proven wrong.
bettieblu
on Sep 9, 2008
@rjohn I have a iTouch as well, the radio feature would be cool I suppose, but then again I never listen to the radio to be honest. The Zune has done nothing so far to make me want to switch. I think that wireless sharing is worthless. I never seen anyone with a Zune in the wild. I know a guy that has a gen 1 and he shuts off the wifi because it eats up the battery. The Zune needs way more 3rd party hardware support for me at least.
Dude1313
on Sep 9, 2008
(sigh) Mike - this doesn't have to be a tit for tat match yet it seems you want to push it in that direction. Does it look similar? Sure. I'm guessing here that given how egotistical Apple allegedly is; they weren't looking to Redmond for design influences. I still maintain that MS is in a dog fight with the other 2nd place guys, they have to first offer a compelling reason to switch there before they can hope to unseat Apple. Its not like the other players are bad, Sansa and Sandisk for one make capable players. You can argue semantics all you want, Zune as is rightly pointed out going to have to offer reasons to switch, as of right now there isn't any.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Dude (sigh) you think when somebody does nothing but essentially repost your earlier point and add a personal attack then I'm at fault for answering the personal attack? (sigh) is right.
bettieblu
on Sep 9, 2008
Proven wrong???? Not so Mike. http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players/zune-second-generation-4gb/4505-6490... "That said, the Zune 4 and Zune 8 have a nice shape, which feels reminiscent of the first-generation iPod Nano." http://www.electronista.com/reviews/zune-4-nearly-the-ipods-true-rival.html "If there is a complaint about the design on a superficial level, it would simply be that Microsoft chose the safe route of imitating the iPod nano's design too conspicuously" From the Winsupersite no less, which has pictures of the two stacked up. http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/zune2_03.asp "Enter the Microsoft Zune 4 and Zune 8, which feature 4 GB and 8 GB of flash memory, respectively, and adopt the music-friendly form factor of the first and second generation iPod nano" You really are a tool man.
subzerohitman721
on Sep 9, 2008
If it's nothing special for Apple's announcement then why all the fuss about it? Honestly, I don't know, but I'll be listening. If it doesn't live up to what Microsoft has done with the Zune, then we all need to give big props to Redmond for stealing the show. As for Steve Jobs, as much as I admire and deeply respect him, he doesn't look to good. I hate to say it, but perhaps they should try CGI? Or you can bring him down to Texas and I'll take him to some KFC, Taco Bell, a few wing joints, and some ribs places. You know, get some weight on that man. He needs a Bacon Ultimate Cheeseburger like I need a lotto hit in the Mega Millions. Hate to say it, but I hope Jobs is grooming a successor. Kudos for Bill for picking Ray Ozzie.
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
>>Either Apple decided that the Zune team got the form factor right and copied them<< Pretty doubtful it was that black and white. It may just be that vertical is the way to go...just like using a mouse is the way to interact with the UI.
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
>>If it doesn't live up to what Microsoft has done with the Zune, then we all need to give big props to Redmond for stealing the show.<< Except MS released early when their hand was forced. Next week was the selected release date. Can't give them props for that.
RunTimeError
on Sep 9, 2008
mike: "You see I have to post so often because people like you don't bother reading the posts and restate things that were already proven wrong." No. You have to post so often because you are a pompous jackass who *has* to be right every single time.
RunTimeError
on Sep 9, 2008
Why, when someone isn't fat, are they branded as being sick? I mean seriously? Why? Not everyone eats KFC, Taco Bell, wings (although they are tasty with a pitcher of beer), and ribs.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
RunTimeError No, I'm a pompous jackass who *is* right every single time.
boolean22
on Sep 9, 2008
If MS starts offering Zune and its subscription services in a more international fashion, I think they'd be able to put a fight for a solid second position in market. I live in Argentina, an as far as I see, VERY FEW people buy a branded PMP. They just need it to play music, be able to load it as a pen drive, and let'em to choose their music sources on their own. The usual suspects are CROWN 512mb to 2GB keychain players that also record audio, have FM, a 3 line monochrome LCD. That's it. It also enables them to carry around their files, and retrieve them easily w/o using any third party software (the good ol' Mass Storage USB Device) There's a lot more demand for Mobile Phone WITH media capabilities. I think it's time for a Zune Phone, already folks! A ZPhone for the masses, for those that don't need/want a powerhouse but a nicely designed handset, a responsive interface, and a chance to be Social with the most Social device of the moment. You could use BT to beam music, and that would be all... Ah... to dream, to dream...
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Another case in point Two years ago Apple laughed a Microsoft's choice of brown for the Zune 30. Today, Steve Jobs is wearing a brown mock turtleneck. Clearly Apple figured out two years late that brown is the new black.
Waethorn
on Sep 9, 2008
"I hate to say it, but perhaps they should try CGI?" Or they could just replace him with a robot....that is, if he weren't one already.
shark47
on Sep 9, 2008
Mike, I wonder why Steve Jobs would even go after the Zune. I think he's just obsessed with Microsoft, in spite of all the success Apple has had. FWIW, to date, I haven't seen a single snarky remark about the iPod from anyone in the Zune team.
shark47
on Sep 9, 2008
"Why, when someone isn't fat, are they branded as being sick?" Isn't obsession a kind of sickness?
Waethorn
on Sep 9, 2008
"Today, Steve Jobs is wearing a brown mock turtleneck. Clearly Apple figured out two years late that brown is the new black." What ever happened to the translucent 2-toned colour schemes of the Zune anyway? I kind of liked that idea. And yes, mike. I pointed out when the Zune 1.0 came out, that brown was (and still is) a popular colour among the "GAP generation". Fashion isn't always so black and white, you know.
lotsamystuff
on Sep 9, 2008
"Today, Steve Jobs is wearing a brown mock turtleneck." What are you basing that on? The photos from the feed at engadget? By that reckoning, he has a pink face, too, and Phil Schiller is wearing orange makeup. It's black, man. Once again, you're wrong (or as Waethorn would say, "WRONG!!!! LIAR!!!!).. "And yes, mike. I pointed out when the Zune 1.0 came out, that brown was (and still is) a popular colour among the "GAP generation"." Not so popular in Canada. Makes you look like a moose. Then Canadian men start chasing you.
Dipsh t Admin
on Sep 9, 2008
"I wonder why Steve Jobs would even go after the Zune. I think he's just obsessed with Microsoft, in spite of all the success Apple has had. FWIW, to date, I haven't seen a single snarky remark about the iPod from anyone in the Zune team. " I wonder the same thing too. Yet, here is Steve today: "they announce products before they want them to... it's funny." And once in a blue moon I agree with lotsa, and he is right on with the Skeletor remark. Yeah, this dude is looking quite frail. I saw a crack that said "thinnest Steve ever!"
lotsamystuff
on Sep 9, 2008
"I wonder why Steve Jobs would even go after the Zune." Citation, please? Except for the mention of Microsoft's miniscule market share, there hasn't been any Zune-baiting. Even Apple's ads NEVER mention the Zune.
chuckb84
on Sep 9, 2008
@Mike "Another case in point Two years ago Apple laughed a Microsoft's choice of brown for the Zune 30. Today, Steve Jobs is wearing a brown mock turtleneck. Clearly Apple figured out two years late that brown is the new black." The random similarity of a mock turtleneck 2 years later than the yecky brown color of the original Zune is----now what was that called, oh yah, a coincidence. The color "brown" occurs in many places at many times, signifying...... nothing. As for colors, the new Nano colors sure don't look much like brown to me. But, of course, UPS loves brown, again signifying nothing at all.....
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
lotsa "Makes you look like a moose. Then Canadian men start chasing you." Better than in Alaska where the Governor tries to shoot you.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Worst iPod launch Ever
shark47
on Sep 9, 2008
lotsa, here: http://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+zune&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:I... "...than the yecky brown color of the original Zune is..." The "yecky" brown is pretty popular at stores like Lucky and Banana Republic FYI. Also, MS was mocked for having come out with a consumer electronics device in brown. Dare anyone mock Apple for rainbow colors? Orange? No way.
bettieblu
on Sep 9, 2008
"Worst iPod launch Ever" Hey Mike I can write your comments if you want? You wont even have to send me the content, your so predictable. Is there anything you like about Apple? I mean I seen enough of your posts (who has not) and I don't remember once you giving them any credit, for anything. What exactly was so bad about it?
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
It's past time for this thread to be locked.
bettieblu
on Sep 9, 2008
Yeah what is with the thread locking?
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
bettieblue Let's summarize the "New" events from the once-a-year update on the most popular music player in the world. Hard drive players: Biggest model dropped, Single model now at 120GB but no new features Flash players: Last year's "fat" design rolled back to vertical, screen updated to match Zune, rounded edges, "Shake to Shuffle", "Genius" recomendations (with no way to play except by buying unlike Zune Pass), new colors Touch line: rounded corners, "Shake to Shuffle", "Genius" recomendations (with no way to play except by buying unlike Zune Pass), bundled Nike software that does nothing unless you buy the Nike hardware. Retargeting Touch as a portable game device with music player and competitor to PSP Shuffle: no change Accessories: New earbuds that they "finally got it right" on (unlike all the previous ones that were "awesome" but now are "not right") Desktop Software: Updated selection UI to optionally look less like a spreadsheet (but still not up to last year's Zune desktop software) iPhone 2.1 update: improves but doesn't fix call drop problems, improves but doesn't fix call quality, fixes some app crashes, improves sync time. Did I miss something? Is there something there that's actually worth noting?
chuckb84
on Sep 9, 2008
@Mike "Worst iPod launch Ever" Since this crowd so loves "marketshare", let's all come back here in January and see how the Worst. Ipod lauch. Ever. does for Christmas sales. Hmm?
lotsamystuff
on Sep 9, 2008
@mikegalos: Thanks. We can now officially apply the "WinJihadist" label to you as well as Waethorn.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Oops. Missed one. Added actual volume control to Touch since users like being able to change the volume without running into lamp posts while jogging using Nike+

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