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About the Zune update, today's Apple news

Sep. 9, 2008 Paul Thurrott | Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows

So I'm in Redmond this week, as you may know. Yesterday, Microsoft was forced to prematurely announce the details of its upcoming Zune 3 platform when Fry's Electronics leaked details about the new devices and software features. (And here's that hi-res shot I was looking for.) To be clear, that is exactly what happened: Microsoft wasn't trying to "spoil" today's Apple event, at which the Cupertino company is expected to announce new iPods and a new version of iTunes. In fact, it's pretty obvious that Microsoft would have preferred to announce their new Zune wares after Apple.

Anyhoo. As ZDNet's Sam Diaz notes, today is a big day for Apple. Their event starts at 10:00 am PST. At that time, pretty precisely, I'll be talking to someone from the Zune team at the Microsoft campus. (They had Zune MVPs through campus yesterday.) It's a weird bit of timing, the Apple event and the meeting, that is, and not something I'd normally mention beforehand, but the cat is pretty much out of the bag on Zune 3, so there you go.

Regarding Apple's big day, it's pretty clear from the rumors that there's not much planned, from a product standpoint, and I see this as just another example of how the iPod market is maturing. NYT's always-excellent blogger, Saul Hansell, put it this way this morning:

Expect a lot of socks at Apple’s event Tuesday. iPod Socks are the sort of brand building fluff that Apple talks about when it isn’t changing the fate of humanity.

What an excellent way to put it. But I think the reason this is indeed a big day for Apple is, frankly, Steve Jobs. People are curious about the guy's health, and for good reason. And while Apple's penchant for secrecy may work wonders for product launches, it's not doing much to overcome investor fears about Jobs. If he looks OK today, at least one analyst has predicted that Apple's stock will skyrocket. Fair enough.

I can't wait to see what Apple announces, though I'm worried it won't be all that exciting. And I'm very curious to talk with the Zune folks about their underrated platform.

Discuss this Article 165

shark47
on Sep 9, 2008
Nice summary, Mike. Expect the tech crowd to be wowed by everything demonstrated today even though it was pretty underwhelming. BTW, this is the day that Paul usually turns into an Apple fan.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
lotsa Thank you. Glad I got it back. I was afraid that after getting awarded the title for saying the iPhone had problems with dropped calls, call quality, app crashes and sync speed that I'd have lost my rights to the title after Apple said they were issuing a patch to fix those problems that the iCabal insisted didn't exist. I feel much better now.
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
>>BTW, this is the day that Paul usually turns into an Apple fan<< By that measure he's a Google fan too. Just stop it, eh? Heres a quote: >>Pictures of Apple CEO Steve Jobs, whose health has been much in question lately, show him looking imperiously slim, not dangerously frail. << http://valleywag.com/5047361/steve-jobs-looks-okay-at-ipod-event
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Shark I suspect that after today's non-event even Leo Laporte isn't going to be gushing. (Goatberg, maybe)
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Ocean Here's a tip. Quoting ValleyWag is the equivalent of quoting the Star or the Sun. It's proudly a tabloid gossip rag. (Note: Not the equivalent of the National Enquirer, they actually tend toward getting stuff sensational but right)
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Oops again. Forgot to include that Touch has a tiny speaker added that Steve Jobs said was only for "casual listening" (More likely it's for game sound) and Nano added a voice recorder. (actually a possibly useful feature)
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
>> today's non-event<< What is the difference between an 'event' and a 'non-event'? Your bar seems like it is set too high. But maybe they won't sell this fall and winter and we'll see that you're right. I doubt it. Here are the new webcams and mice MS released. Perhaps that will be more to your liking. http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10036590-1.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10036423-1.html
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
Mike...re: Valleywag Lighten up, Levity is our common friend.
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
>>that Touch has a tiny speaker added that Steve Jobs said was only for "casual listening"<< I would think it would be the same as the one in the iPhone. Not sure what the reviews said about that one.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Ocean I like ValleyWag but I wouldn't quote them.
WebGuy3000
on Sep 9, 2008
Re: the Apple event - About what I expected. All the run-up to this event had led one not to expect anything world-changing. But, a solid fall line-up, all in all. The only real news was re-aligning the price/value structure: - Nonos double the memory for the same price. - Touch 8Gig goes from 299 to 229. Touch 16Gig goes from 399 to 299. Touch 32Gig at $399 (as "real" ganes appear for this platform, this may become a more compeling product. It really doea a lot) - Classic goes from 80 to 120 gig for the same price, 160 gig model dropped Oh, and NBC is back. This is a big deal for many.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Ocean When you roll out your rock star CEO only 3 times a year and when one of those is when you roll out the only revisions you make that year to your only product line that's an industry sales leader, you've kind of set the bar pretty high. When you use that hour to include things like "headphones that finally don't suck" and "let's bring Phil up here to play some games as filler" and "hey, we're issuing a patch on Friday to fix some of the bugs in our halo product" you've pretty much missed not only that high bar, but you've missed jumping over a champion limbo player's bar.
WebGuy3000
on Sep 9, 2008
Oh dear. I really must read these things before I hit "Add." Apologies for the egregious typos in previous post. I'm really not illiterate, I swear. Senile, perhaps...
Waethorn
on Sep 9, 2008
"Not so popular in Canada. Makes you look like a moose. Then Canadian men start chasing you." "WRONG!!! LIAR!!!" You're wrong there. When you wear red lumberjack plaid (known in most circles as a "skid jacket"), you fit in with the bears. :P http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=235... (NSFW, but funny) "Dare anyone mock Apple for rainbow colors?" Um....
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
>>When you roll out your rock star CEO only 3 times a year and when one of those is when you roll out the only revisions you make that year to your only product line that's an industry sales leader, you've kind of set the bar pretty high.<< I think you're the only one thinking this way. Every refresh can't be a world-changer (to steal WebGuys's phrase).
Dude1313
on Sep 9, 2008
mikegalos@msn.com said: Dude (sigh) you think when somebody does nothing but essentially repost your earlier point and add a personal attack then I'm at fault for answering the personal attack? (sigh) is right. *********************************** Personal Attack? Someone is a bit touchy methinks. You might want to switch to decaf in the afternoon. *********************************** chuckb84 said: @Mike "Worst iPod launch Ever" Since this crowd so loves "marketshare", let's all come back here in January and see how the Worst. Ipod lauch. Ever. does for Christmas sales. Hmm *********************************** C'mon now Chuck no sense making comments like that! :) (sarcasm) and for the record I can give a crap about market share in anything...
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Actually, all the "Apple is the most wonderful company in the history of the world and we just love them ever so much" type answering only with market share really does point out that not only is the iPod division just phoning it in these days but it's OK with them.
shark47
on Sep 9, 2008
1. Microsoft would have been mocked for features like shake to shuffle and some of the Nano colors. Apple will not only get away with it, a lot of analysts will tout the shake to shuffle feature as groundbreaking. 2. It's not that Microsoft does not have a compelling set of features to make people want to switch. It's the coolness factor. It's the marketing. Microsoft has failed at its marketing attempts. Apple is able to make people want stuff that they don't really need. Of course, the so called analysts are very helpful in this regard. 3. Ocean, even when you're not posting links to irrelevant articles, you're still as annoying as ever. It looks like you're only objective here is to negate anything positive that is said about Microsoft or anything negative that's said about its competitors. BTW, yes, Paul is a Google fan. He likes their products.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Shark I'm actually curious about the "shake to shuffle" feature and how easy they make turning it off. This does NOT seem like the right feature to match with the Nike+ jogger's app... (or a really amusing feature to turn on for that unsuspecting jogger friend)
Master3
on Sep 9, 2008
"1. Microsoft would have been mocked for features like shake to shuffle and some of the Nano colors. Apple will not only get away with it, a lot of analysts will tout the shake to shuffle feature as groundbreaking." I'm interested to see if Apple's biggest fan journalists are going to label it a "gimmick" or point out that a similar thing already exist on other mp3 players, as they would have done if this was a non-Apple device we were talking about. But yeah, part of Apple's sales effort is dependent on a biased, fawning tech media, so it should be a real hoot to see them whore themselves to Xanadu for Apple on this one. Btw the fights between Apple fans have already broken out on various messageboards, and boy are they going at each other. When their expectations aren't met, they do turn on each other big time.
Waethorn
on Sep 9, 2008
"I'm actually curious about the "shake to shuffle" feature and how easy they make turning it off." Seriously though. This should be another one of those "Who designed this crap?" articles. Microsoft has lured users away from the illegal "Music is free, and comes from the Internet" mindset and adapted it into a complex social networking thing similar to the "MyFace" with connections to their store (unfortunately, only in the US though). That takes some real thinking.
tayme
on Sep 9, 2008
@sharky - "Microsoft would have been mocked for features like shake to shuffle and some of the Nano colors. Apple will not only get away with it, a lot of analysts will tout the shake to shuffle feature as groundbreaking." You are probably right about MS being mocked for that and Apple being championed for it...that is until a teenaged driver kills somebody while shuffling songs or playing games on their iPod while driving. Texting while driving is bad....this could become worse. And if you think they won't do it...you don't have teenagers. --tayme
bettieblu
on Sep 9, 2008
I have no doubt you can shut it off the shake to shuffle, in the settings. The lock button probably shuts it off while its locked, so start your play list, lock the device, run. Pretty much what I do when I jog with my current Nano. The shake to shuffle is not a feature meant to make someone switch, but more to show off of the accelerometer technology, and use it to add small features. As in "we have this accelerometer technology that can do this, this, and this, our competitors dont". With exploit of this feature you widen the gap.
bettieblu
on Sep 9, 2008
Tayme LOL, if they were going to kill someone while playing games, the DS would have done it by now. Its only the best selling game console ever.
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
>>As in "we have this accelerometer technology that can do this, this, and this, our competitors dont". With exploit of this feature you widen the gap.<< Kinda like the FM radio and the Wireless on the Zune...
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
>>It looks like you're only objective here is to negate anything positive that is said about Microsoft or anything negative that's said about its competitors. << I think we'd all be better off talking tech than about other posters.
tayme
on Sep 9, 2008
@bettieblu - I wonder if it has already happenned on a DS??? Next question, does the iPhone include the shake to shuffle/game control like the iPod Touch/Nano (I am not sure which includes it and which don't, so I could be wrong)? If so, that means that they will have it out while driving anyway...why not play a few games between text messages? --tayme
Dipsh t Admin
on Sep 9, 2008
I do wonder if there is some other reason for the comment locking here. Anyone hear anything from Paul about this? Although, remember that Paul is in Redmond today as he stated earlier. Now how do I know this was an underwhelming event? Besides the fact you need the CEO up in front of a stage telling you about bug fixes, the stock is currently down almost 4% with only a few minutes before the buzzer left.
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
>>I wonder if it has already happenned on a DS??? << Probably. http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/09/gaming-while-driving-laws-coming-soon/
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Apple relying on marketing rather than product? How could you say that? The iPod Touch is "the funnest iPod ever!" The new iPod Nanos are "nano-chromatic!" Isn't that all you need to know?
samkass
on Sep 9, 2008
Favorite part of today's Apple event: "Sandisk has 8.6%, Microsoft has 2.6%, and “Other” is 15.4%. Not too bad, Microsoft." Seriously, people who think Apple can market their way out of a paper bag haven't been around the company very long. Their marketing is pretty pathetic. If their products weren't so great, they'd have been dead a decade ago. And people who don't understand that their products are great are probably the type who compare products on a checklist or a feature spec rather than how well it fits into their lives.
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
>>Seriously, people who think Apple can market their way out of a paper bag haven't been around the company very long. Their marketing is pretty pathetic. << Tell us why you think so, please.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
dipsh Actually it came up while I was briefly talking to Paul at the conference yesterday but I'd rather not discuss a private conversation here. I'll leave it up to Paul to decide what he wants to say about how he runs his board if anything.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Well, I'm installing the new iTunes 8. I wonder what else it'll decide to install for me. After all, iTunes 7 decided that I needed the MobileMe control panel. If you don't hear back soon, I'll be restoring my computer from my handy Windows Home Server.
shark47
on Sep 9, 2008
"If their products weren't so great, they'd have been dead a decade ago. " What's funny is they were dead a decade ago. :-)
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
There was a rumor that a iTunes subscription of some sort was in the works. Interesting that that didn't come to be.
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
>>Well, I'm installing the new iTunes 8. << Mike, if you're a heavy user of iTunes, I'd wait a day or two or three to make sure there are no bugs lurkings in there. Its happened before. I always wait...
Waethorn
on Sep 9, 2008
"if they were going to kill someone while playing games, the DS would have done it by now." In that context, the Wiimote would be a better fit. With that in mind, I can imagine someone shaking it, having it slip out of their hand, and knocking someone in the head with it, leading to a lawsuit against Apple. >:)
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Ocean But it's an Apple product so it'll "just work" Right?
tayme
on Sep 9, 2008
@Ocean - I have to admit...I was wrong on the ITMS subscription...good thing I didn't bet anybody on it!!! --tayme
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Ocean As for the iTunes subscription model, that's something that's rumored every year and never shows up. Kind of like the tablet Mac and the Yellow Submarine iPod with the full Beatles collection bundled.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
So far it's an amazingly long install that's required two separate UAC security approvals and a shutdown of Outlook...
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
>>But it's an Apple product so it'll "just work" Right?<< An Apple 'software' product does not always 'just work'. Not in my experience.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Well, the install did eventually finish and my computer is still running. What was it that was said about me setting too high a bar?
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
I've never understood the need for a tablet (my boss loves his...but it's just another interface to me and I'm already comfortable with the mouse and keyboard) nor for the 'Artist Branded' iPods (maybe the color...but wouldn't the target audience already have copies of the music it comes pre-loaded with?)
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
What do you think of it? Based on your and others experience, I may jump in. I want to check out the 'Genius' feature. I like Pandora and want to see how well Apple copied it...
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
So far not that different. The new views are similar to the Zune equivalents. I haven't turned on "Genius" yet.
tayme
on Sep 9, 2008
@mike - "Actually it came up while I was briefly talking to Paul at the conference yesterday but I'd rather not discuss a private conversation here. " Then why even mention it? I get the feeling that you are the type of person who loves to name drop to make themself feel important. I know a lot of those types...and they usually irritate me. --tayme
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
tayme Three reasons 1) To let people know that it was something Paul was both aware of and felt important enough to discuss in a short conversation 2) Because it was explicitly asked and I had some (if limited) information 3) To provide an extra message to respond to so that Paul would be more likely to see it come up in a totally unrelated series of posts. As for the rest, let's just say I get a feeling about the type of person you are as well but I'll be polite and keep my feelings private.
samkass
on Sep 9, 2008
>> >>Seriously, people who think Apple can market their way out of a paper bag haven't been around the company very long. Their marketing is pretty pathetic. << Tell us why you think so, please.<< Their advertising has always been iconic but alienating. It's been Chiat/Day most of the time since the legendary 1984 commercial. Did that help them win with MacOS? No, it wasn't until Macs got Windows compatibility, matched Wintel hardware, and integrated better into people's lives. Do you feel more affinity for Justin Long (I'm a Mac) or John Hodgeman (I'm a PC) in their ads? I've been using Macs since 1988 and I like Hodgeman better. On the other hand, the iPod has always been about integrating into people's lives. Look at Nike+, games, quick ripping, easy interfaces and sync up software, etc. It is technically no better than the Zune (well, the Touch and iPhone are, but if you compare equal offerings). It just does a simple thing very well in an unobtrusive way, and it sells.

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