Addressing the 'Windows 7 use the NT 7.0 kernel' silliness (Updated)

@truffoo0 No, I'm saying the exact opposite. What the *majority* think is alright or not is what counts. So even if I do fancy picking my nose in a resturant, the *majority* of the guest would be offended and find my behaviour repulsive. So subjective morals are overruled by the majority. Going back to Gorath's example. If the entire town decides that an individual is a valid target for burglary, by whoms morals would you judge that act? The indivudal thinks it's wrong, but all others thinks it's right. What does the outside world think? They may represent the overall majority, but still they may not be able to act on that. You could extrapolate that endlessly with all sorts of good and bad examples. You and I might strongly believe that stealing others copyrighted material is wrong, but what if an entire generation thinks otherwise? What to say that it would not change? You and I (well don't know about you but at least for me then) might think that it's alright to see naked breast in a movie and hear people say F**K two thosand times, but what did our grandparents think? Back in the day the majority thought it alright to censor such talk. It changed. Now mutilation and bad language is part of our kid's daily entertainment (for some reason sex is still frowned upon, rather my kids see a body ripped to peices than a naked couple doing the dirrty). So we come to the crux. A generation of young people think that "sharing" is the way to go, and old farts disagree. So they take the chance to implement absolute and totalitarian control over that generation. "All this has happened before and it will happen again", to quote an excellent TV series that I would never have seen if not for files aquired in a non-lawful way, by a TV company who would not have benefitted from my money when buying the DVD releases without said files. At least I tried to pay back, even though I was denied the possibility of doing so up front. And that last bit is really what the serious crowd is trying to get at. Open the thing up and give us the possibility of paying for what we consume. Things might be different in the US, but we still don't have TV and movies in iTunes and there is no Zunes and only crappy movie rental services. And now they want to *restrict* access instead of the opposite?

"naked *** in a movie" was referring to the female attributes in the chest areas. Ahh, censorship. So I guess we have not moved that far, and my claims may go down the drain. Still "mutilation" and "bodies ripped apart" were not censored, so part of my claim holds true.

While I'm at it, drowning this thread with my posts, did my comments at any time read as if I were for stealing copyrighted material. If so I need to clarify that I do not think so, but I don't mind getting my hands on a "preview" (along the lines of trial software) and pay if I find it good. I would not pay for clothes that do not fit. I need to try them on first. I would not buy a car that I have not taken for a test drive. I would not buy a sofa I had not sat in. I would not marry a person I did not know. I would not buy music I didn't listen to. But would I buy a book I didn't read? Would I go to a restaurant and only pay if the food was good? Would I try to sneak into the theater and only pay if the show was good? Would I get a hot dog at the arena and only pay if I didn't throw up after eating it? Can you ever really know another person? Tough questions. They go to prove that there is a delicate balance to these things. And what is really stealing? My arguments are starting to go in circles, and I'd better extract my self graciously from this entire conversation. It's late over here. Better go hug the pillow. Sorry if anyone felt personally attacked. Never my intention.

Angle, either write a book or get a job. Just kiddin' bro :)

"I don't mind getting my hands on a "preview" (along the lines of trial software) and pay if I find it good" That's why online music stores already offer preview clips of songs. All of the major online stores do. All of the music stores around here allow you to listen to a CD first too. "I would not marry a person I did not know." In some cultures, that's a requirement. "But would I buy a book I didn't read?" Maybe....are you allowed to read the entire book before you buy it? I don't think so. Read my above response about music preview clips. "Would I go to a restaurant and only pay if the food was good?" Do you refuse to pay if it's bad? I know I do. Restaurants are more about service than product though - that's probably why restaurants are classified as part of the "service industry". Bad food is just the result of bad service by the chef IMO. "Would I get a hot dog at the arena and only pay if I didn't throw up after eating it?" Who buys that crap from the snack bar anyway? I always bring my own - in a bag. And if the ref gives the defenceman a penalty for slashing, that bag is getting lit up and thrown on the ice.

As off topic as this got, it was certainly a fascinating discussion. Angel, I really like the dualities you pointed out of trying on clothes before buying, but not food etc - and must concede to have never given that angle much thought before. Ironically, with poeple doing more and more of their shopping online, they are more likely to buy items such as clothes without trying them on. This, through the very medium that enabled the masses access to pirated material, which some justify as "trying before you buy". This world is many things, but straight-forward and black-or-white it is not.

very few to none!

"I really like the dualities you pointed out of trying on clothes before buying, but not food etc" IMO, there's 3 classifications of "things" that you can buy with your money: 1) services (includes restaurant visits, hotel rooms, etc.) 2) products (includes groceries, but not food from a restaurant) 3) intellectual property (any "creative ideas" that aren't sold, but licensed) It's common to pay for services when the service is satisfactorily complete. It's common to pay for products upon receipt of the product. And it's common to pay for IP without being able to fully utilize it first.

@AOD: "The $ sign is used variably, but sometimes just to emphasise that the MS abbreviation is referring to MicroSoft and not something else." And I'm glad you used it. If you hadn't, I would've been left wondering what Apple's products had to do with Multiple Sclerosis. :-) "Advertising is what killed newspapers and network TV." Just like video killed the radio star. BTW, Ocean, don't worry. robertsjoe will be here soon to play with you.