Apple Tax 2.0

With Macworld opening tomorrow, Microsoft has begun discussing the “Apple Tax” again. The company last brought up this concept in October, just before Apple released more-expensive-than-the-previous-version MacBook and MacBook Pro models, which was good timing. And indeed, my initial take on this was that Microsoft was on to something. I wrote about this in a WinInfo article back in October.

Now, a few months later, Microsoft is again discussing the Apple Tax. And while I know a significant number of people will simply take offense to this for whatever reason, I feel even more strongly than before that Microsoft is right. Here’s an article going out in WinInfo tomorrow:

On Eve of Macworld, Microsoft Again Highlights 'Apple Tax'

With the economy in freefall, Microsoft this week continued its discussion of the "Apple Tax," what it says are the additional costs associated with using the Mac platform instead of a Windows-based PC. According to the company, the severity of the Apple Tax has only gotten worse in the past few months, as Apple has released expensive new Macs despite ever-worsening economic conditions. The discussion is occurring the day before Apple opens its Macworld trade show in San Francisco.

"Windows is more compatible than the Mac, but it's also more compatible with today's budgets," Microsoft Corporate Vice President of Windows Consumer Marketing Brad Brooks told me in a briefing on Monday. "Around the globe, people need to balance the interests they have with the realities of the economy. Windows PCs are a better value than Macs, and that's true at every price point."

Microsoft first began discussing the Apple Tax concept in October, just before Apple shipped new Macbook notebook computers that were even more expensive than their predecessors, a curious move given the economy. At the time, much of the discuss was around the cost of switching, comparisons of Macs and PCs at different price points, and the lack of innovative new hardware features. These issues continue to this day, Brooks pointed out. But the problem is exacerbated by the value of Windows, Apple's continued insistence on only serving the high end of the market, and the design aesthetics of Apple hardware, which limits choice.

"Apple fans like to say that the company is like the BMW of the PC world," Brooks said. "Fair enough. But we're Toyota, and we have the Corolla on the low-end and Lexus on the high-end. And both offer tremendous value across the board."

"Microsoft has been delivering low cost technology to the masses for over 30 years," he continued. "And we're going to push this concept of 'Life Without Walls' going forward and explain to people the value they get when they run Windows on the PC, on the Internet, and on their phones." Brooks noted that the upcoming Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas was an obvious time for make this renewed push for Windows, including Windows Vista and 7 on the PC, Windows Live on the Internet, and Windows Mobile on phones.

"Look, the Apple Tax gap is widening, not shrinking," Brooks said. "And it plays out in so many different ways. There is the upfront cost of the machines, the lack of technology innovation, the compatibility of the devices, the lack of form factor choices, and so much more. The gap has never been greater." Brooks said that Apple machines were luxury items while PCs happy straddle the gap between utility and luxury. "You can get even more technology in Windows at the same price point than you can with a Mac than you could as recently as October," he added.

Brooks hinted that PC users should stay tuned to Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer's CES keynote address on Wednesday evening. "Let's just say it's going to be an interesting talk," he told me.

And, for completeness sake, some Microsoft charts highlighting some examples of the Apple Tax. Enjoy.

Discuss this Article 184

SandmanX82
on Jan 5, 2009
"You dont see some Apple exec spouting off that communist sh!t about..." No, you're right. Instead they tell me why NOT to buy a Vista computer. I'd go and maybe buy a Mac, but from those commercials, you'd never know a damn thing about them because they're too busy telling you everything under the sun about PCs.
SandmanX82
on Jan 5, 2009
PS. You guys like to talk about Paul being imbalanced with his articles...yet you've gone so far as to say that Microsoft telling people to buy Windows is reminiscent of communism....hysterical! Please people, let's get some perspective here.
SandmanX82
on Jan 5, 2009
"...which is thousands less than Avid" And the rendering in Render Cut Pro tells the story as to why. Or is it its clearly superior media management?
SandmanX82
on Jan 5, 2009
Also, it's not thousands less. It's $1200 less.
johnpapola
on Jan 5, 2009
I 100% agree with sandman. Microsoft is not evil and certainly not comparable to the great evils of the state and communism. They are a very successful company that has largely earned their success. For years Microsoft worked and developed and competed with very little attention paid to the true evil in Washington, DC. Then, their competitors that couldn't cut it decided to put more energy into lobbying than product development and got Uncle Ogre, I mean, Sam to waste everyone's time for decade. Now the company has to watch it's back from meddling federal hacks. Bill Gates is a great person and his company has done tremendous good. All that said, I obviously think Apple makes a better operating system for most people and their design philosophy and hardware/software integration delivers a superior experience. Every consumer survey continues to support that as a statement that is broadly shared if not indisputable fact. So bring it on, Microsoft. I welcome it. And if Apple lowers their prices due to competition, that'd be great too. But they shouldn't do it to chase market share at the expense of profit and sustainability. That's the exact strategy that put Dell in a rut.
SandmanX82
on Jan 5, 2009
"Every consumer survey continues to support that as a statement that is broadly shared if not indisputable fact." I'd say that for the most part (notice "most" part), people who buy Macs over PCs are already Mac fanboys to some extent and will love it regardless. And if you're not already a fanboy...well if you just spent twice as much as the comparable PC, wouldn't you be inclined to make yourself believe you're receiving a superior experience? :)~ (by the way, I'm joking around so don't get your panties in a bunch) But honestly, my wife has a Mac, I used to use Macs at work all the time...I honestly can't say I've ever "experienced" all the apparent greatness that is a Mac. It's no different to me than any other computer, and that "superior experience" talk is all just marketing garbage in my eyes. But maybe that's because I've never had a single problem (that wasn't my own fault...like accidentally erasing my hard drive) with my XP or Vista computers.
DRWAM
on Jan 5, 2009
I found that a base model 17 in MBP cost around $1000 than an equivalent HP laptop. but the Xeon workstations were not correctly comparable as the MS version was Core 2, not Xeon. Check Dell and you'll find that a comparable Xeon WS cost more, and HP is pretty similar. So whoever wrote the above data, is a LIAR!:) Still my $400 Vista laptop works pretty darn good. I can play a DVD and surf the web or play on line games at the same time, while I had Word open at the same time, all with only 2GB of RAM. Waethorn was correct when saying that bumping the 32 bit up to 4GB of AM won't give a noticeable increase in performance. It's cheapo low WS LCD looks BU-T-Ful in glossy. I'd buy another. It really runs Vista well....all for $400 !
shark47
on Jan 5, 2009
Oh lindy, if it's not robertsjoe, it's you behaving like robertsjoe. At least we don't have Oceans OT posts about Wii and Gruber. Communism? Why not compare MS to something even worse? Come on, you can do it. You've been dying to do it.
Lindy
on Jan 5, 2009
@SubZero...."Macs are just as vulnerable to these kids of problems as Windows." Not when I see them trying to run .exe files. I agree that some day Mac's will get hit. That said if you were a Mac user for the last 10 years or more, you did not have to spend a dime on AV software. Joe PC users that is not running pirate versions of AV probably spent around $39 a year....or more for the last 10 years. Unless they know someone in IT that loaded AVG or something else free, but Joe BestBuy user is probably running some super intrusive package like Nortan Super Protect Me/take my money Center software. Who is delusional? Find me a Dell workstation (the chart used Dell) that has dual CPU sockets and can take more than 16gig of RAM that cost significantly less?????? "but Leopard isn't even coded to take full advantage of all 8 cores" Proof? Links? Are you sure its not the applications that cant use them? Some can some cant. http://www.macworld.com/article/131949/2008/02/macproeight28.html "The over 250 patches in 2008 for Leopard alone should have every Mac user screaming at Culpertino for a security refresh" Define that. How many files were replaced or patched, what was the total size of the code. You have no idea do you? Your spouting a number that looks good to you. How many did Windows have this year? I know we patched every month at work....plus a few out of cycle patches at work. I just installed Windows 2008 on a new server Friday and it wanted 33 patches at 110meg and its not even a year old. I applied SP1 to an Exchange 2007 server recently. The download for SP1 was 800meg and it expanded out to 1.3gig before I could run the update on Exchange 2007. I mean WTF 1.3gig...did SP1 replace the whole dam program?
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 5, 2009
And, yet, the emperor's clothes remain the same...
johnpapola
on Jan 5, 2009
@sandman, Honestly, the best thing I can say about the mac is that when I was a PC user (Win2000 and prior) I was the tech go-to guy for my family and was constantly getting called. Now my whole family on both sides has switched and I never hear anything but how much they love the machines and how much easier and more reliable they are. Now, vista may be much better. I don't know. For me, as a power user, there are hundreds of reasons why I prefer the mac. The most important are software (Final Cut, Aperture, Shake) as well as the excellent third party app quality. And I've always been able to sell my machines on ebay at great prices that more than made up for the price differences if there were any. Windows is fine. If you like it, great. As a former hardcore windows PC guy, I'm never going back.
SandmanX82
on Jan 5, 2009
"Joe BestBuy user is probably running some super intrusive package like Nortan Super Protect Me/take my money Center software. " In your own words..."NO ONE told you had to buy a iPod."...or in this case, AV software. If someone doesn't use one of the myriads of free AV software, who's fault is that? Microsofts?
SandmanX82
on Jan 5, 2009
@johnpapola I can respect that. If you see better value or are happier with Mac, I say go for it. I talked my mom and dad into getting a macbook because I thought maybe with me being as geeky with computers as I am, I didn't really see the value in how much "easier" the mac would be for them. Sadly, I think they regret the purchase and feel bad for pushing them to get it. Little programs that they used to use on their windows box they obviously can't use anymore, and I don't think my parents see any additional value gained. My mom was quite disappointed that something as simple as a card reader isn't included. So not every situation fits the same mold obviously. Your family switched, mine pretty much hasn't (or regrets it). To each his own I say. Nice having civilized conversation with you by the way. I can't imagine it will last long on here. :)
Lindy
on Jan 5, 2009
@Shark and Sandman exactly WHAT is this guy implying with "Around the globe, people need to balance the interests they have with the realities of the economy."??? Key phrase there for me is "people need" um sorry I dont need to do shat brother. If I fall on hard times I will adjust. If someone I dont know half way around the globe falls on hard times, um I am not going to buy a Windows PC because its cheaper, when I can afford not too. Nor do I think anyone needs to adjust their choices if I fall on hard times. This is not a global food shortage or something critical. These are niceties not necessities. This is pure BS spin using the bad economy to try and stop people from buying a Mac and get them to buy a Windows PC. Basically it is sad marketing. I drive a Toyota Truck and use a Macbook as my primary PC. I guess I dont fit into that guys world. Nor does DRWAM, who drives a MB and uses a $400 Acer. You better conform Doc, the economy is bad and you need to do your part, get rid of that car.
Lindy
on Jan 5, 2009
@Sandman you are right if you choose not to run AV free or not on Windows then dont. Its not Microsofts problem. I think if you have auto-update on, UAC on and are smart about what you do and where you go on the internet you wont need AV even on Windows. Problem is if you make one mistake you will get nailed. How many joe users know about free AVG and could find it and install it? They see a box on the shelf at BestBuy, maybe it was free on that "back to school weekend sale" that they bought their new Vista notebook or maybe it was just part of the craplets that came with their new Vista notebook. I have seen many Windows computers come with some trial of whatever AV preloaded that will get in your face every time you boot up asking for some $$$ to work past 90 days.
shark47
on Jan 5, 2009
"@Shark and Sandman exactly WHAT is this guy implying with ..." I said I thought it was childish of MS to make such statements. But how is it communist? For years, Apple has been behaving like a spoiled kid. Is that communist too?
tayme
on Jan 5, 2009
@Lindy - Actually, quite a few non-techy people that I know, knew about and found AVG Free. Its not that tough with Google, Yahoo, Live, whatever. I for one, use AV software on both of my Macs...maybe I'm paranoid. But, the overhead is nill on both the Mac and PC. So, as far as a "tax"...its a nice marketing term used by lots of companies to talk about the competition's prices. Choose what you want and can afford...its not that big of a deal. --tayme
SandmanX82
on Jan 5, 2009
@Lindy "This is pure BS spin using the bad economy to try and stop people from buying a Mac and get them to buy a Windows PC." Again, get some perspective. It's Microsoft trying to sell Windows. No different than Mac spouting their "pure BS spin" when they basically say "OH MY GOD....buy a Vista computer and it will break and you will get a million viruses" to get people to buy Macs. I know, I know, they don't say that exact wording and don't say "people need" to buy a Mac, but they're implying that, aren't they? It's called marketing. "How many joe users know about free AVG and could find it and install it?" Once again, who cares? That's like me saying "I know a guy who bought a macbook and then bought a $200 iSight camera to go with it because he didn't know it came with one". I don't see what you're trying to prove with saying all this. All your proving is some people don't know any better. This is Mac and Windows independant. "Problem is if you make one mistake you will get nailed." And if I don't install any AV software on a Mac and make one mistake I could get nailed. Again, same as above...what are you trying to get at? I don't get you Lindy, I must say. Sometimes you come up with well thought out arguments...and other times you seem to...well...be robertsjoe or ocean in disguise.
SandmanX82
on Jan 5, 2009
"I said I thought it was childish of MS to make such statements. But how is it communist? For years, Apple has been behaving like a spoiled kid. Is that communist too?" Apparently it's "sad marketing" when Microsoft lies (according to Lindy) and implies you need buy Window PCs to save money...while Apple consistently lying in their ads is both creatively cute and funny.
shark47
on Jan 5, 2009
"I don't get you Lindy, I must say. Sometimes you come up with well thought out arguments...and other times you seem to...well...be robertsjoe or ocean in disguise." Exactly my point! :-)
Lindy
on Jan 5, 2009
I have no problem with MS advertising and marketing/spin.....right up until they try to guilt/scare you with world economy problems and that is why you should buy a Windows PC. I think its desperate and people are going to see it as BS. I honestly think the Apple advertisements are childish. That said all ads are 90% BS and honestly that is why I watch recorded TV, use Ad block and dont read adds in papers and magazines. I dont run AV on my Mac's, nor do I know anyone that does. I am sure there are some that do. The "one mistake" on a PC with out AV vs a Mac with out AV is night and day different and you know it Sandman. 99% of malware crap out there is written for Windows, so Mac users that make that mistake end up with file types that wont run on OS X in their download folders. Windows users are not so lucky.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
@shark47: Communism? Mircosoft? Communism offers choice. One choice. That's what Microsoft has given the world with their monopolist practices. One choice. You draw the conclusion.
chipwinter
on Jan 5, 2009
I work at home and switch to a new computer about every four years. Every hour that I spend during those four years fussing with the computer costs me my hourly rate of $100. For those who know both systems, would I "fuss" 8 hours less over four years with a Mac rather than a PC? If yes, then there would be not Mac tax for me. If no, then, for me, there would be a tax. Microsoft's PR arguments seem short-sighted to me.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
@tayme: "Can you tell me what it is about Windows Mobile that you don't like." It's the wrong paradigm for a mobile device. Microsoft got it wrong by trying to squeeze a desktop OS in a mobile device. Took Apple to show them how it should be done. So I love the iPhone. It's a 1000 times better mobile device than anything running Windows Mobile OS. "Of course, *IF* Apple sticks to its word and Jobs doesn't show up and they truly pull out of MacWorld" Apple does not lie. Unlike MS. "will be saing how lame keynotes and trade shows are at this time next year." We will be saying that if Ballmer is the only game in keynote town next year. He (like his company) is lame and tasteless.
Ocean
on Jan 5, 2009
Why do I keep seeing my name when I haven't even commented in this thread?
Ocean
on Jan 5, 2009
Here is a good question: Is it a 'tax' if the users pay it willingly? Wouldn't that make it more like paying a 'premium'?
SandmanX82
on Jan 5, 2009
"I have no problem with MS advertising and marketing/spin.....right up until they try to guilt/scare you with world economy problems" That's your own opinion then I guess. Some people might see the flat-out lying in Macs ads as the point where they have the problem. "The "one mistake" on a PC with out AV vs a Mac with out AV is night and day different" And once again...what is the point you are trying to make here? At first it seemed to be about people HAVING to buy AV software because they didn't know any better about free stuff...which was pointed out is the users fault, not Microsoft/Windows. Now I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. They provide auto updates, UAC, and work with hundreds of both free and paid-for anti-virus software. What the end user ends up doing is nothing but the end users fault. Microsoft isn't going to sit over your shoulder and watch people's every mouse click. Just as if I were to jam peanut butter in the CD drive of my Mac, I'm not going to blame Apple for not preventing every little stupid thing I do.
darkmax
on Jan 5, 2009
hi guys, A question for those of you Apple fanboys and Microsoft haters, didn't Microsoft bailed Apple out of the ditch back before 2000 started? Now... wouldn't that mean that Apple's current success is owed, in majority, to MS? "iPhone, made by Apple, thanks in part to Microsoft"....
darkmax
on Jan 5, 2009
If the world had chosen Mac over PC, Mac being in the majority, I believe they would face the same security and other issues as Windows users do now.
chipwinter
on Jan 5, 2009
Wow. I just spent some time going over those charts. While I understand Microsoft's interest in noting how much more expensive Macs can be than PCs, this isn't a "new" thing. That means that, if recent articles about Apple's U.S. market share nearing 10% are true, these charts are really showing how much people are willing to pay NOT to use Windows. Ouch.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
@darkmax: "Now... wouldn't that mean that Apple's current success is owed, in majority, to MS?" You're dreaming. Apple's success is due to innovation and taste. Neither of which exist in MS. "If the world had chosen Mac over PC, Mac being in the majority, I believe they would face the same security and other issues as Windows users do now." Not at all. Windows is fundamentally flawed. The world chose Microsoft like people choose McDonald's. Cheap crap.
nutts
on Jan 5, 2009
I can't take any notice of somebody that writes "English" like this: "You can get even more technology in Windows at the same price point than you can with a Mac than you could as recently as October," At the end of the day so what if somebody wants to pay a premium for perhaps a more refined experience? As the article correctly pointed out, some people would rather drive around in a BMW than a Toyota. That will always be the case. Who cares? I can't really understand why Paul puts out trolling articles like this (well, except to obviously pay his bills from page hits) when he is somebody who has willingly paid the "Apple Tax" on his many Apple products and will continue to do so. Talk about hypocrisy.
clindhartsen
on Jan 5, 2009
Maybe I'm outside the wonderful world of typical Americans, living the larger part of my life under a household where credit was not spent like mad, but a Mac is simply too much cost-wise and doesn't offer that much more than a PC. I've spent the better part of my life in low income housing, beginning college now and slowly transitioning to reality, and the truth is that I don't have the money to blow on a Mac. Every time I hear someone scream about how Macs are better and that they are worth it, do you want to go down the lower echelon of society and explain to them why they should forget about getting a car and instead get a Mac? Or get a Mac instead of something crucial, like a coat, clothing, food, or what have you? The point of the matter is that there are plenty of Americans that are not going well, whether that be that they never had a high paying job, are now laid off, or are having to take a job with a lower income range. The truth of the matter is that PCs provide options for everyone from the rich to the poor, and screaming that they suck is about as bad as Republicans screaming Liberals will destroy America. Seriously, this whole issue is nothing more than that. The point that one can scream from an ivory tower is enough to drive me mad. I've lived the better part of my life in the lower income level of the nation, and to be honest, the Mac's always seemed kind of cool, but realistically, it's too much money for something you'll surely cycle through faster than you ever will a PC.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
"I can't really understand why Paul puts out trolling articles like this (well, except to obviously pay his bills from page hits)" Bingo! Otherwise you'd take out comments and concentrate on the writing.
subzerohitman721
on Jan 5, 2009
@Lindy, Since 2003, I've been using AVG. Total cost of AVG free edition? $0.00. There are plenty of other free anti-virus out there. So that kills your argument cold. Anyone can pickup free anti-virus from a credible vendor with zero cost. So the Microsoft tax doesn't apply to me and many. Second, Windows Defender does a good enough job in keep things running fine. It was free to XP users and integrated in Vista. No additional cost. Oh, you want benchmark links? http://www.macworld.com/article/59022/2007/07/macpro8.html Little to no improvement over previous versions. Need more? http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/01/10/primate_benchmarks_apples_... https://www.pcworld.com/article/132646/eightcore_mac_not_for_general_tas... As for the patch situation, just visit the folks at the National Security Database run by the U.S. CERT for that information. I took the liberty of emailing Jeff Jones, Strategy Director in the Microsoft Security Technology Unit. He's currently working on an a yearly report on the vulnerabilities Windows, Leopard, and other OSes. Mr. Jones is currently putting the finishing touches on that report. But in his email he said, Apple did terribly on security this year. When is report is released, you'll get the numbers. However, I do have some 1st quarter information on Mac threats. http://ithreats.wordpress.com/2008/04/16/q1-mac-threats-roundup/ However PC World reported it. Funny how the Apple press didn't carry or report on this. http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/152151/apple_releases_anot... Does that answer your questions?
Ocean
on Jan 5, 2009
>>in his email he said, Apple did terribly on security this year.<< MS should highlight that in its advertising instead of that other hot mess of ads they released.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
"Since 2003, I've been using AVG. Total cost of AVG free edition? $0.00. There are plenty of other free anti-virus out there. So that kills your argument cold. Anyone can pickup free anti-virus from a credible vendor with zero cost. So the Microsoft tax doesn't apply to me and many." You have to install something to protect yourself. Then keep it up to date. It slows your machine. The point is that with OS X and Linux you don't have to worry AT ALL! That's a million times better from a UX POV.
anonymous
on Jan 5, 2009
Your story was featured in Dapx! Here is the link to vote it up and promote it: http://dapx.com/Technology/Apple-Tax-2-0
devs
on Jan 5, 2009
@ mikegalos : are you actually paul thurrot ? or just an extremely devoted fan of him ? You seem to have an unlimited time on your hands to post not the most thoughtprovoking post on this site... Pfffff......
MLomasIcomm
on Jan 5, 2009
There's generally a 'sweet spot' for buying Apple hardware - and that point is usually right after it comes out. Take the 'current' (ie, pre-Macworld) Mini's - they're looking old in tech terms, with old CPUs, and in general have components that probably cost a lot less than they used to - the price of the Mini? Exactly the same. In the PC world, things tend to move faster, with older models lowering in price over time, as newer models with higher specs are brought in. The same thing doesn't really happen with Macs - which are introduced at a certain price point, and then stay at that price point until they are replaced (completely) with a new model. People pay for Macs because they perceive a better quality of hardware and software - a 'premium' product. Whether that's what they're /really/ getting is really an issue of physical design and software superiorty - but that's an argument that people will engage in without ever being resolved! The big question now, in what is likely to be a recession year - is will people keep paying those premium prices?
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 5, 2009
"The point is that with OS X and Linux you don't have to worry AT ALL! " Why, it's magic. And rainbows and unicorns... Really, you guys are so cute.
simongoldring
on Jan 5, 2009
(partially @robertsjoe) Evidently nobody else bothered clicking on robertsjoe's link (can't blame you). If you had, you would have seen his cute little pie chart (it's http://i38.tinypic.com/35bti6c.png ). I found it most entertaining that he doesn't know how much 25% is. Maybe he's still in high school like me!
Atlantean
on Jan 6, 2009
Wow, I never thought you could save up to almost $2000 by going with a PC instead of a Mac. I mean, I knew they were over priced, and I thought it was because of the lovely, lovely design. But they seem to be inferior hardware-wise all across the board! O_o
LC21
on Jan 6, 2009
Nothing new here. The Apple tax notion is routinely trotted out, generally by pundits. A little strange that MS is trumpeting it, but not surprising: MS is feeling the heat from a poor economy, speculation regarding layoffs is rampant, IE share is down, Macintosh share is up, and who on earth can describe what Ray Ozzie is doing. For all its faults, Apple is an extremely well-run business with (for the most part, Mobile Me excluded) tremendous focus, execution, marketing, and supply chain management, with passionate customers. Apple haters should wish all companies were managed so adroitly.
Waethorn
on Jan 6, 2009
"I removed "AntiVirus 2009" from a Vista PC today, that belonged to a friend" Then he must have Defender turned off, or UAC turned off, or no good antispyware product installed, cuz Defender and Microsoft antivirus products have been detecting it for the last 5 months. ....or is he taking a tip from you and turning UAC off?
chuckb84
on Jan 6, 2009
Once in a while we get a reminder that Paul is Enderle with more tech savvy. That is, they both know who pays them, and that's Microsoft. So, this "blog" is now for reposting Microsoft press releases? Who takes this guy seriously? As for the issue at hand, the "expensive" Mac issue has been done to death. Macs continue to increase market share, Apple sells every one they can make while PC makers are going out of business or struggling to find relevance (Dell) in a commodity market where PCs are interchangeable. You may not agree with the judgements that have led to this economic reality, but it nonetheless remains real! Macs sell because they ARE PCs; I'm running Windows right now under Parallels, but I'm also running OS X. They do more, so I'm happy to pay more. They are also not big, clunky butt-ugly bricks, and that matters to me. Pay your money and take your choice. (Oh, and we know that when a PC fails, Paul can tell us that it is "Toshiba's fault, not Microsoft's" because, after all, Toshiba made the hardware....)
johnpapola
on Jan 6, 2009
@Atlantean, That savings in particular is a lie because it's comparing workstation class 8-core Xeon Mac Pros with quad core gaming/consumer towers. Like up the Dell Precision workstation to the Mac Pro for a fair fight. As for the rest of this, I think anyone here that's saying "who cares" is right. Again, I'm happy to see a market leader like Microsoft feeling enough competitive pressure that they have to resort to economic scare tactics. I also have faith in people to make up their own damn mind based on their own needs and budgetary constraints. Funny that there's no graph up for Apple's notebook line, despite that being the area where all the growth is coming from, while these silly mini towers are going the way of the dinosaur.
Lindy
on Jan 6, 2009
@subzero from your first link about the 8 core Mac (the same one I linked no less) Did you even read it? "One test that did see great improvement with eight processing cores was our 3-D rendering test using Cinema 4D. Running this test, it’s easy to see how well this program takes advantage of all of the processors in a system. The rendering window splits itself into eight horizontal chunks, and you can watch each area being drawn simultaneously. In this test, the eight-core 3GHz system was 44 percent faster than the quad-core 3GHz model, finishing the job in just 14 seconds; the quad took 25 seconds" If you knew anything you would know that when it comes to using multi-cores on Windows or OS X the major factor is whether the application is written to take advantage of it. Sure the OS will use multi-cores for background OS stuff, but if an application wont use the cores then it does not matter. Again this is true on Windows or OS X. That is why you see those game sites bench mark games and they are faster on a high end dual core than they are on a quad core. The faster dual core (3.0ghz DC vs 2.4ghz QC) drives the game faster because the games cant use multi-cores or at least more than 2. "But in his email he said, Apple did terribly on security this year" Lol let me email someone at Apple about security and see if they said they did terrible...I am sure they would agree with our MS source. Did Apple patch a lot yes. Do they do a bad job or worse than MS in terms of time to patch, probably. But in the end how many Macs were successfully attacked in 2008? Please provide us links of actual attacks that worked. Free AV is used, and I am sure that anyone that is posting here knows about free AV....its pretty much a given. However the vast majority of Joe PC users, that are not in IT pay for it. If they did not you would not see it being sold and yet there are many vendors that stay in business every year.
Waethorn
on Jan 6, 2009
@johnpapola: Didn't you say before that you were "done with this site"??? LIES, DAMNABLE MACKIE LIES!
DRWAM
on Jan 6, 2009
Actually, our biggest hardcore Windows geek in the practice, ho is the section cheif of IT, just bought his son a 17 in MBP and his wife a 15in MBP, because "they got tired of all the problems on their Windows computers, whatever that means. He was an engineering major before an MD, and bought a $4400 custom PC with Vista Ultimate, but had to replace the mobo with a different model an constantly gets the BSD. The mobo was installed by the local computer fix squad. I gave him some reinstall suggestions, so we'll see. Also, if you check out the vid card for the all in one Dell XPS and HP Touchsmart [at the same price as the iMac], you find an integrated intel GMA 3100 POS, rather than the ATI Radian HD 2400XT, so again comparing junk to quality = BS. The iMac is priced very simialrly to other All in Ones and the Xeon WS is too. The Apple laptop line actually is the problem as well as a lack of a low end line. Also, upgrades at the Apple store seem too cost much, much more than any other computer company, which is also an Apple tax. If you don't like the crapware installed on your Windows computer, then delete it. I'll be glad to delete it to save a few hundred dollars. Even then one free subscription of the pre-installed AV app. I deleted Norton from my $400 Vista laptop, then added Avast [although I recently replaced it with OneCare], for free. I could have added any number of suitable free AV apps. There are some decent towers out there that cost less than the iMac [or any ALL in One PC] which has a premium for form, but most of us don't need a premium form factor. We would rather have a decent vid card and a larger, less expensive LCD screen. And personally, I have not had a single problem with my two Vista installations, including on my Mac Pro Tower. My conclusion is that Vista is much less problematic than XP and very comparable to Leopard. The US may be buying more Macs, but if Windows 7 hits the mark, and the word get's out, the trend could go flat, especially in the laptop line, where netbook interest is growing.

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