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As Expected, Security Software Makers Mock Microsoft's Free AV

Sep. 30, 2009 Paul Thurrott | Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows

You had to see this one coming. They did it when Microsoft shipped Windows Live OneCare and then raced to create their own me-too products. But what will Symantec and McAfee do now that Microsoft is providing Windows users with free AV? Whine, of course. IDG News reports:

"Security Essentials won't change anything," said Jens Meggers, Symantec's vice president of engineering. "Microsoft has a really bad track record in security," he added, ticking off several ventures into consumer security that the giant has tried, including Windows Defender, an anti-spyware tool bundled with Windows Vista and Windows 7; the released-monthly Malicious Software Removal Tool; and OneCare.

I'd remind people that Symantec still sells its OneCare rip-off, Norton 360, right next to its normal Norton AV and Norton Internet Security suites. You know, it's the same. But different.

In a company blog, another Symantec employee called Security Essentials a "rerun" of OneCare, and said: "At the end of the day, Microsoft Security Essentials is a rerun no one should watch."

Ah boy. I wonder if that guy works on Norton 360.

I think Microsoft Security Essentials is excellent, but then I also exercise common sense online. From what I can tell, that's the best defense.

Discuss this Article 55

Waethorn
on Sep 30, 2009
"Microsoft has a really bad track record in security," Quite a defensive posture when OneCare kicked Norton's a$$ three ways from Sunday in the last AV-Comparatives proactive (ie. realtime) scan test. "I'd remind people that Symantec still sells its OneCare rip-off, Norton 360, right next to its normal Norton AV and Norton Internet Security suites. You know, it's the same. But different." Ya, you know, by about another 50% of the cost. " another Symantec employee called Security Essentials a "rerun" of OneCare, and said: "At the end of the day, Microsoft Security Essentials is a rerun no one should watch."" He'd rather have their eyes on his product so that he can have his eyes on their wallet.
dberger
on Sep 30, 2009
I've been using it since the beta begun and it works great. I've been telling everyone to use it. No one should have to pay for antivirus or antimalware software.
LC21
on Sep 30, 2009
You were expecting warm hugs from the competition? Would agree with PT that common sense is the best defense, and I gave up on Norton products years ago. I use AVG on the PC, and ClamXAv on the Mac. All good.
JamesNT
on Sep 30, 2009
Of course, now all we need to complete this circle is for the Obama administration or the girl in the EU, Nellie Kroes I think, to whine about anti-trust. Remember, everytime you say something should just be part of the OS, the anti-trust lawyers sit ready to pounce.
gfryesc1
on Sep 30, 2009
frivolous anti-trust suits will be next.
techfan
on Sep 30, 2009
The return of OneCare? Does this mean Symantec will release a MSE-like product, like it did when OneCare came out? A combo of MSE and safe browsing is all I need (well, I hope).
kadarzsolt
on Sep 30, 2009
Microsoft had the chance to avoid anti-trust investigations by delivering MSE without UI and integrating it with Action Center (notification, config). But this is almost as good. I am also recommending it to all friends and family.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 30, 2009
LC21 "You were expecting warm hugs from the competition?" Nah, but I was hoping they'd at least come up with at least one half-baked reason why their expensive and slow products were a better choice for somebody. The response they gave was just sad.
Waethorn
on Sep 30, 2009
"Remember, everytime you say something should just be part of the OS, the anti-trust lawyers sit ready to pounce." Only if failing European companies complain of course. They won't care if the US-based Symantec or McAfee make any noise over this.
RobertC
on Sep 30, 2009
Norton AV 2009 & 2010 have been completely overhauled. They are now great products and they don't slow down your PC.
Balthazar9
on Sep 30, 2009
Has anyone read the FULL EULA on this monstrously? George Orwell would be quite proud.
Waethorn
on Sep 30, 2009
"The return of OneCare? Does this mean Symantec will release a MSE-like product, like it did when OneCare came out?" So, um, they're going to be releasing Norton Antivirus (with Antispyware) for free, but they'll charge for the replete security suites?
Waethorn
on Sep 30, 2009
"Norton AV 2009 & 2010 have been completely overhauled. They are now great products and they don't slow down your PC." I would agree on two of those three points. Yes, they have been overhaled, and yes, they don't slow down your PC. They are not great products though for two reasons: 1) the Norton browser toolbar, and 2) the protection is still questionable.
Waethorn
on Sep 30, 2009
"Has anyone read the FULL EULA on this monstrously?" Yes, I like to monstrously read things. (WTF?) The EULA is typical, and very similar to any other consumer antimalware product on the market. Oooh, speaking of garbage antivirus products, just now I got an email stating that Ingram Micro Canada is now carrying AVG products. I'll take a PASS! Ingram Micro, you has a FAIL!
EricoF3
on Sep 30, 2009
lol It is really ironic to see Symantec people tell this kind of comment regarding MS Security Essential when all know symantec security products are the last of the line... Symantec do the badest security product on the market so MS should not be to scared about these comments lol
rr0de74@live.com
on Sep 30, 2009
I could not agree more with you Paul. I effing HATE these companies. They are sharks, playing off fears they create, kind of like the Republican party:) Symantec as much as anyone has given Windows a bad rap. At this point in time the need for such products come into question. If a user turns on automatic updates, uses Vista/7, has some kind of cheap SPI router at home and uses their brains you wont have a problem. Every email provider these days scans for crap so you are not going to have a problem there. Most malware today will go right by any protection because the USER allows it.
johnbaxter
on Sep 30, 2009
I saw an odd interaction between a (Win 7 RC) backup run and MSE (beta) Sunday. Part way though the backup, MSE popped up a window about having found a bad thing. I told it to clean the computer. Backup later showed a failure dialog saying it couln't copy the shadow files. Repeat. I ran an MSE full scan (it was about time anyhow), and MSE found the same bad guy plus something it wasn't sure about. (Both were in the Chrome browser cache--I use Chrome for a few things.) I had MSE clean the computer, which disposed of the bad guy, and send the unknown to Microsoft. Backup then ran fine. Very happy that MSE is out. I had a Norton suite product on a laptop several years ago (Win 98 time). It updated itself while I was at a computer club meeting, and refused to start. Help suggested removing it and reinstalling it. So I removed the Norton and installed AVG. Last Norton here. (I had great respect for the old Peter Norton Group. And they actually resisted being Symantecized for a couple of years.) --John
roblind
on Sep 30, 2009
Let me weigh in on the "common sense online" issue. Over time I've come to rely on AV solutions mostly for scanning files I've downloaded from the internet before opening them. Also, I find that UAC, though controversial to many, provides me with the most peace of mind when my wife and kids are online using their standard user accounts. Nothing can be installed or changed on those systems without my knowledge and permission via typed in password. A common security problem I see from novice Windows users is a lack of knowledge (or common sense) about the risks of internet usage, i.e., not keeping their software up to date, downloading freeware from unfamiliar sources, naively giving out personal information, etc. It seems to me that Microsoft is supplying a lightweight, basic, effective, and easy to manage malware solution for precisely these types of users. Moreover, I would guess this is a significant percentage of their user base, i.e., novice users. I applaud this move from Microsoft as they are simply looking after their's and their customers' best interests. This is a win-win scenario for a great percentage of the Windows user base. Sadly, I just don't think that non-enthusiast or novice computer users are going to have the common sense that most enthusiasts or power users have. On a similar note, as I watch the rise in popularity of Macs among novice, non enthusiasts users, I wonder how OS X will hold up under the sloppy and naive internet usage of a new generation of its users. I would think that Apple is watching this dynamic closely as well.
johnbaxter
on Sep 30, 2009
I checked version numbers between MSE updates on my two Windows machines. The product just released as a different product version. However, the Engine and Client versions are the same in the final as in the second public beta.
pmcgrath
on Sep 30, 2009
Interestingly, MSE stopped the fake antivirus malware from getting a foothold, while a fully updated Symantec SEP, failed. Its really that simple, and why I'll be looking at ForeFront to replace symantec when my license expires.
Waethorn
on Sep 30, 2009
"The product just released as a different product version. However, the Engine and Client versions are the same in the final as in the second public beta." The Microsoft Malware Protection Engine (MSMPENG - if I read that definition of that acronym right) wouldn't seem to be dependent on any particular version of host application, as all host applications (MSE, OneCare, FCS, and Defender) use the same engine and are updated at the same time. Mike would know more about this than I, but he's under NDA about the internal workings of it.
Waethorn
on Sep 30, 2009
@pmcgrath: Yes, MSMPENG definitions have been updated to detect WinFixer clones, like XP/WinAntivirus 200x. It also detects Wimad, which is a ID3 metatag virus that infects MP3's on most of Limewire's network (users' connected PC's). Variants of Wimad change every day though. Limewire isn't safe, and I can confidently say that it is rarely used for legal means.
rseiler
on Sep 30, 2009
Unfortunately, there's no getting around the fact that MSE offers mediocre protection: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2353447,00.asp
Adobaw
on Sep 30, 2009
Read this post and stop all the hating. http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=3733 "Consider the results from the latest Anti-Virus comparative review for May 2009 against new malware, indicating that Microsoft’s OneCare achieved an Advanced+ rating (60% detection), putting it on the second position, with Symantec achieving a mere 35% detection rate." Look at the Anti-Virus Comparative - Proactive/retrospective test - May 2009 at http://www.av-comparatives.org/images/stories/test/ondret/avc_report22.pdf.
SempSempSemp
on Sep 30, 2009
Good to see Microsoft doing this. I, myself, don't use Anti-virus software. Every now and then I'll get a cold chill about something and fire up a fresh install of AVG free and, with a new hardware purchase and the ensuing free copy of Norton, I might even be stupid enough to install the behemoth called Norton 5050 (or whatever version weirdness it's up to now). I've realised 4 things: 1. You either have to be really dumb or really unfortunate to get a virus these days (siblings that ring me and say "I got an email with a file attached and when I opened it nothing happened" - that's when I queue Trojan/virus/worm/malware sadness OR you download a file from what looks like a legitimate site only to discover it has a worm or some other nasty) 2. Most modern "viruses" are easily fixed by registry knowledge and being able to spot naughty files that load on startup. (i've hand removed quite a few naughties) 3. Almost all anti-virus software is ridiculously bloated, self-promoting ("This email was checked by the super-awesome best ever virus software xxxxxx") and resource chewing. 4. Anti-virus/Anti-malware companies (with the exception of spybot and perhaps AVG) thrive on this mentality of "YOU'RE NEVER SAFE...EVER".. "GOOD GOD MAN! Your virus signatures are out of date by 3 minutes! YOU WILL DIE!".. They feed off the worst human emotions. My mother, in her sixties, was conned into purchasing one of these pieces of bloat-ware online - you know the ads, the flashing "your computer is compromised!" graphics.. sigh.. Cue Microsoft - Simple. Lightweight. Unobtrusive. No-nonsense. No cause for alarm at every turn. The New Efficiency? This is definitely the new efficiency. The less you panic people and the more you educate - the better off we all become. I'm sure someone will cry about it and demand that Microsoft stop being good at software development. Cheers, SempSempSemp
rseiler
on Sep 30, 2009
Adobaw: Hating? It's more like facting. And you were merely referencing a "proactive" test. Check out the later, more relevant one that tests against a large existing body of known threats (and also read the PCM review). Again, mediocre at best. http://www.av-comparatives.org/images/stories/test/ondret/avc_report23.pdf
subzerohitman721
on Sep 30, 2009
Adobaw, Nice report there. Definitely more proof that Symantec needs to work on their solutions before challenging anyone. Kudos.
Joe05
on Sep 30, 2009
I cant help but laugh at the typical reaction of Norton and others,early on I felt that these companies had products that were absolutely necessary for protection against major security holes in the Microsoft OS, Today I feel that they're parasites, while Microsoft has vastly improved security in Windows..beginning with SP2 for XP and then major leaps in Vista and now Windows 7, the Norton's of the world spread fear towards the novice user who isn't well informed. These are the people that buy there bloated junk, I applaud Microsoft's efforts and highly recommend MSE.
daveinla
on Sep 30, 2009
Kudos to MS for letting go of a few bucks on one side in order to offer computers a bit more secure and head-ache free out of the box... that's one reason less for Windows users to consider switching to OSX
lotsamystuff
on Sep 30, 2009
"Microsoft Security Essentials 1.0 is free, and it's better than no protection at all. But it's not a big improvement over the now-defunct OneCare as far as malware protection goes. Somehow I expected better. As it is, you'll get more protection from avast! antivirus 4.8 Home Edition or AVG Anti-Virus Free 8.0—both of which are also free." Thanks for that link, "rseiler". There was more good, solid information in that article than in Paul's breathless "review". I'll stick with AVG, thanks.
Waethorn
on Sep 30, 2009
"And you were merely referencing a "proactive" test. Check out the later, more relevant one that tests against a large existing body of known threats (and also read the PCM review). Again, mediocre at best." Different test. The proactive test is preventative, which is more important than a post-infection scanner. Like someone said in another forum, would you rather have a phrophylactic preventing you from getting an STD, or would you rather try and come up with a cure after you get infected?
lotsamystuff
on Sep 30, 2009
"Hating? It's more like facting." Facts don't matter to a WinJihadist. In their world it comes from Microsoft, it is perfect, beyond reproach, and anyone who dares suggest otherwise is evil.
Waethorn
on Sep 30, 2009
"My mother, in her sixties, was conned into purchasing one of these pieces of bloat-ware online - you know the ads, the flashing "your computer is compromised!" graphics.. sigh.." That's not just "bloat-ware". Most of those are fake ads, designed to goad you into paying for software that does nothing because the software is designed to generate false detections. Her computer may never have been infected in the first place until she clicked on the "click here to disinfect" button on the site. Tell her to reverse her credit card charges because she got defrauded out of her money.
Waethorn
on Sep 30, 2009
Speaking of a bad rash, here comes losta with his two cents.
techfan
on Sep 30, 2009
@Waethorn: "So, um, they're going to be releasing Norton Antivirus (with Antispyware) for free, but they'll charge for the replete security suites?" You never know. They might actually do that just to get people's foot on the doorway and then hit them up for the whole suit.
crankenstein
on Sep 30, 2009
MSE is a really good product... I've been using it for months now, and it performs better than any of the paid antivirus products I've tried over the past few years. I would love to see Windows become it's on self substained OS, free of any and all third party software.
Balthazar9
on Sep 30, 2009
Waethorn, You completely missed my sarcasm. I don’t mean to be facetious but why do you – I mean you personally – need a security solution? You mention your mom’s predicament: in my opinion you’re a poor teacher. Both my elderly parents are on Linux and love it. No spyware, no adware, no virus, no backdoor trojans ever w/ full office, PDF, photo, video and also game support. I’m with Paul on this. I never get malware and have not used security apps in a decade. Why does someone who claims some acumen in ‘puters need security?
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 30, 2009
balthazar " I never get malware and have not used security apps in a decade. " If you never use security apps, how would you know you don't have malware? Only an incompetently designed botnet client broadcasts to the user, "Hey, you're infected!" I guess you just are so aware of every clock cycle on your processor, every byte on your hard drive and packet on your network connection that you would notice a fraction of a percent usage and a few extra bytes in a known executable or a few packets broadcast in the middle of the night. If so, I'd suggest you get some malware protection so you can get some sleep.
Waethorn
on Sep 30, 2009
"I don’t mean to be facetious but why do you – I mean you personally – need a security solution?" Yes I do. My security solution is running an operating system that doesn't have 8 year old kernel faults, even though "many eyes are looking at the source code". That's just laughable. It's also the reason why hackers can easily hack into Linux servers. I also want an operating system that is provided by a major vendor because "Googling for support" is not an option in any established company, sorry. The cost of licensing any commercial version of Linux is extremely more expensive than licensing from Microsoft and even with Software Assurance. Likewise, I can get approved updates from Microsoft for the software products I buy even after my support agreement expires - and you certainly can't say that about any commercial version of Linux. "w/ full office" LOL! Replete with OpenOffice 3.0. The Office 97 for today's computing. "also game support" Dedicated game servers aren't what I would call "game support". And any games with Tux don't count. OpenGL can't even touch DirectX 10.1 yet for programmability either. In fact, I could probably go so far as to say there are more commercial game ports to OS X than there are for Linux.
Waethorn
on Sep 30, 2009
"Why does someone who claims some acumen in ‘puters need security?" LOL! As someone who claims some acumen in common sense, I don't just deny the need for security, like you obviously do by the syntax of that statement. I also don't abbreviate the word as " 'puters".
GoodThings2Life
on Sep 30, 2009
I just sent an email company-wide to tell everyone at work (about 200 people), that if they have computers at home and want a great, free AV solution for their home computers, they should check out MSE and give serious thought to ditching what they have. I have received about 2 dozen in-person responses or emails saying thanks, and I just sent it an hour ago. Go figure.
Balthazar9
on Sep 30, 2009
yous guys [sic] crack me up _ no literally. Misguided beliefs any security suit can protect you from someone like me. BitTorents sites are replete with MY CRACKS for compromising Norton, McAfee, TrendMirco, Kaspersky, CA and NOD32. It took me all of ONE weekend to crack Win7 rtm. In little more than 17 minutes I cracked MS new creation. Go right ahead and live your illusions. Makes my hobby easier. The Blind leading the ignorant to my slaughter!
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 30, 2009
Aww, the cute little script kiddie is offended.
bdegrande
on Sep 30, 2009
Yes, their whining is self serving and annoying. Sort of like Paul Thurrott watching an Apple Mac/PC commercial while working on his Vista book.
Waethorn
on Sep 30, 2009
@mike: LOL! Paul should just post little boy blue's email address and we can start to have some real fun with him. Linux is so easy to hack too, it's just silly! There's a reason why professional hacking competitors just leave Linux till the end, and it's not because it's secure.
Backup77
on Sep 30, 2009
The response from Symantec & others is as predictable as it is lame. They (Norton's, McAfee, Trend etc).should be more concerned with the ineptitude of their own products that have failed customers time and time again.
Backup77
on Sep 30, 2009
@Balthazar9 Maybe you could use your talents for a more useful purpose other than cracking software programs and making salacious claims.
NoNameAtAll
on Sep 30, 2009
"BitTorents sites are replete with MY CRACKS for compromising Norton, McAfee, TrendMirco, Kaspersky, CA and NOD32. It took me all of ONE weekend to crack Win7 rtm. In little more than 17 minutes I cracked MS new creation." Uh huh. Torrent sites are filled with YOUR cracks. No one elses'. Actually, even if what you say is true, there's a fair amount of people who don't even use Torrents.
haimin
on Sep 30, 2009
well ppl like me dont have important docs on my computer so i dont care if my pc is part of a botnet :D
DRWAM
on Sep 30, 2009
OneCare deleted the Virtumonde Trojan[s] that I installed [was supposed to be a free HD utilty] when McAfee and AVG did not even detect it, even though the web site site claimed it removed it. Bravo OneCare! Many of the doctors in my group bought it on sale at Amazon for 10 bucks or free after rebate. I still have an old XP box with Avast though. OneCare just restored my buddies files, preferences, Outlook email and address book when his boot drive died and he replaced it. Good stuff, period, end!

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