Bad user interface, part 37

Even OneCare (which was written for an audience that really does like getting those "toast" messages - we tested it a LOT in the usability labs) just changes the icon in the notifier bar for most of the "we're doing stuff in the background" In Norton's defense, and I can't believe I'm saying something in their defense, the notification level that's ideal changes wildly between casual users, hobbiests and professional PC users and the integrated suites are meant for the casual users.

Hey, I use OneCare and I drive a Jag!

"Hey, I use OneCare and I drive a Jag!" ....and I use OneCare, and I don't drive a Jag! (and I'm a PC!) ;)

I'm a PC, I use OneCare and I drive a Lotus.

DarkSages Well they are in the "security" business so Norton probably decided to use the TSA's model for airport security, "If you're annoyed you'll assume you're actually safe"

Heres an issue I'd like Pauls opinion on: >>Sinofsky told us that there will be no ability to enable the old taskbar since, in Microsoft's opinion, the new taskbar's leap in usability negates the need for a "less-able" option.<< Some interesting commentary here (I think the 'S' man himself made an appearance): http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/372005082731/m/264004...

Ocean, well the new taskbar *is* the old taskbar with additional functionality. So if you don't want to mix and match shortcuts with running applications, you don't have to. This isn't as bad as, say, the move to Windows 95 from Windows 3.1. Some peopl actually missed Program Manager. Those people, were, of course, delusional. :)

"So I uninstalled Norton and installed AVG." I get computers in all the time with viruses on them. The vast majority are XP. Rogers offers Norton Antivirus for free when you use them as an ISP. It's part of the mish-mash called "Yahoo Internet Protection" with a 3rd-party firewall, and yet other 3rd-party spam and antispyware products managed by this crap Yahoo console. I see many of those machines, and many with AVG. What's funny is that I see many with protection that is fully enabled, fully up-to-date, and yet they still end up getting viruses and spyware. In many cases, AVG, Norton, or whatever, don't actually detect the virus until you do a full disk scan with them. Sometimes they do at that point. This begs the question: If the antivirus was working properly, meaning the on-access scanner, how did those viruses get saved to the hard drive in the first place? Oh, and BTW: I see MANY AVG & Norton 2007+ systems with "[Win]Antivirus [Pro] 2006/2007/2008/2009" too. OneCare blocks installation of it.

Wae Any modern antivirus will have two parts, a real-time detection system (often with both signature and heuristic detection) and an on-demand scanner. The way you'd see a virus on a system with an installed antivirus is generally one of two things. 1) Somebody turned the real-time protection off because it slowed the system down. This wasn't that unusual a few years back when real-time detection was insanely slow and bad with resources. Unfortunately, some people just got into the habit of turning real-time off even after they got better. 2) A zero-day attack where the virus installed before there was a signature update and either there was no heuristics present in that particular antivirus system or the virus' behavior didn't trigger the heuristics rules.

@Mike: I don't think you understood what I wrote. I didn't mean that OneCare blocks Norton or AVG. OneCare blocks WinAntivirus. It actually correctly detects it as "badware" (not the term they use - I think they classify it as a trojan downloader or something - it is illegitimate/fake antivirus software though). Norton and AVG antispyware products currently don't remove it properly, even though it's been floating around for a few years now. Originally it was called "WinFixer", but most common variations are known as "WinAntivirus" or "Antivirus 200x". I see many systems with Norton up to date, and they still get it to this day, even WITH the on-access scanner on. I can also turn around and run the on-demand scanner and often it will pick stuff up when the on-access scanner won't. This means the malware is able to circumvent running processes on the machine. WinAntivirus will install usually from another trojan downloader that was downloaded earlier on the system. In many situations, even when Norton is "green" (meaning all processes are supposed to be running properly - including the on-access scanner), it will detect the original trojan when I perform a disk scan. Trouble is, the on-access scanner often gets partially disabled by the trojan, even though the console reports everything is A-OK. That's why the on-demand scanner picks it up, while the on-access one doesn't. It also makes it difficult to remove, because you'd have to track and kill running processes in order to delete the file. Since the on-access scanner doesn't always detect it, you're stuck at a Catch-22. Norton is the most common and well-known antivirus software, so it makes sense for virus writers to try and attack that. AVG is also well known because it's free. The point of the story is: WinAntivirus, BAD OneCare, GOOD Norton/AVG, GARBAGE! Related phun: If you want an easy (and kinda "safe") way to download a virus, here's how: 1) Download Limewire 2) Run it, and search for "Norton Antivirus" 3) Look for search results of about 370kb 4) Download the ZIP file 5) Extract it, and run the EXE on a computer you want to destroy It's that easy! (That's how bad Limewire's network is for anyone that doesn't think it is - most MP3's also contain ID3 tags that take you to malicious websites that also have trojan downloaders & browser hijackers too. OneCare will often pick up bad MP3's, but not always.) Another way is to just install Kazaa or Morpheus - Kazaa has about 6 pieces of spyware/adware, and the Morpheus installer has a trojan downloader that launches as soon as you double-click the EXE, all as detected by OneCare. Go ahead and try this on a fresh install of Windows that you can blow away (make sure it's the only PC on a network for safety reasons). You'll see what I mean. For informational purposes, install OneCare before attempting this. For more of a laugh, don't, and watch the results when you surf.

As for: "The point of the story is: ... OneCare, GOOD ..." As a part of the team that designed OneCare 1.0, thanks. It's always nice to hear that the choices we made paid off for our users. (I'm at that nice point in the product cycle where my version of the product has been rev'd so praise for the design can be taken and criticism can be justified as the fault of the new people who should have fixed whatever we did wrong) :-)

This coming from a Windows fanboy? What about the million bubble pop ups that Windows has? Now that's bad UI. Check out this terrible UI, part 38: http://technology.berkeley.edu/msvista/images/800px-Windows_Vista_Deskto... Truly bad. This is even worse. No taste. http://images.appleinsider.com/windows7-20081028-2.jpg

Well, Halloween does explain all the trolls out tonight.

I've been pleasantly surprised by Norton Antivirus 2009. I wouldn't touch the security suite but the plain vanilla av seems resource friendly and effective. Hard to tell when the scans never find anyting regardless of what I run. NOD32 which is what I use on my laptop still seems the lightest and most effective av I've used.

Here's a question: Why can't MS just copy Apple's simple, clear, high-contrast design approach for the menu items instead of making these god-awful-ugly, pixelated, totally-overwrought little taskbar icons. Seriously, Vista/Windows 7 has an overall pleasing look, but these icons are vomit-inducing and just plain cheapen the desktop.