Can Microsoft do what it's never done before: Make a new Windows version run better on old/low-end hardware than its predecessor?

I broached this topic in a previous blog post, but Saul Hansell at the NYT Bits Blog examines Microsoft's efforts to de-bloat Windows 7 so it runs well on netbook computers. You know, unlike Vista.

The biggest question facing Windows 7 is whether Microsoft can really think small.

When designing Windows Vista, Microsoft put a lot of effort into taking advantage of sophisticated computer hardware, with fancy graphics on the surface and lots of new processing tricks inside. Microsoft says this positioned the operating system for the future, despite the complaining of many users who grumble that Vista has bogged down their computers with unneeded frills and incompatibilities.

While there is some more high-powered glitz coming in Windows 7, the real challenge for Microsoft isn’t the latest multicore superchip, but making the operating system work well, and affordably, on stripped-down PCs, netbooks and other small devices.

He comes to some interesting conclusions after talking to people at CES. These include:

Linux has not caught on for consumer PCs ... the vast majority of buyers have chosen to spend $30 to $50 more to get Windows on inexpensive netbooks.

Agreed, though as previously discussed, I'm curious about the future of Linux now in ways I haven't been for some time.

The early signs are that Windows 7 can run better on smaller computers than Windows Vista. Indeed, the company has been boasting about how little memory the operating system uses.

This is most likely true, though as I noted previously, Windows 7 is not "magic," i.e. it won't make an obsolete computer suddenly viable again. What Windows 7 does do is run better on low-end modern computers using the Intel Atom processor.

Microsoft will cut prices somewhat for Windows on small computers

I have no info about this one, but Hansell points out that Microsoft charges less for Windows on netbooks and makes up for it in volume. So much for Apple's theory about there being no money to be made in that market.

Microsoft has lost its way in consumer electronics

That's a nice bit of speculation. But it's wrong. And here's why: Microsoft has never found its way in consumer electronics, ever. In fact, every single consumer electronics product that Microsoft has made has lost money. Think about it. Even the Xbox 360, which the software giant touts as some kind of success, will never, ever make up the billions of R&D it plowed through. And that's their most successful CE product. Microsoft has never been a force in CE. So they can't have lost their way. They've just simply never made it work.

The list of Microsoft consumer stinkbombs is a mile high. Media Center. MediaRoom. UltimateTV. WebTV. PlaysForSure/Windows Media DRM. Zune. That Outlook-compatible phone from years back. Any product with the words "Microsoft" and "Home" in them. The Teddy Ruxbin bear thing. (And you thought I'd forgotten.) Don't get me wrong: Many of these are good, even great products. But if it's just me and 17 other people using them, what's the point?

There's a side discussion here to be had about Apple's more successful approach with CE, and Microsoft's supposed softening towards Apple. I'd just note that market forces have aligned to erase some of the issues that dogged cross platform compatibility before, especially around digital music. A year ago, most iTunes-purchased music was both junk (128K AAC) and incompatible (FairPlay DRM encoded). Today, virtually all (and soon, all) iTunes-purchased music will be of incredibly high quality (256K AAC) and very compatible with the current (Xbox 360, Zune) and coming generation (Windows 7 Windows Media Player and Media Center) Microsoft products. The world is changing and maybe taking a Windows Live-type approach--where Microsoft simply works with the competition--is the way to go.

Just a thought. And I wasn't even at CES.

Discuss this Article 98

weedmonk
on Jan 14, 2009
I don't get why you underrate and underestimate Media Center. You're might be right as far extenders and HTPC uptake, but as feature part of Windows its gaining a lot of traction. Last fall I went back to my school on a recruiting trip and you would not believe how many people in the dorms are using their laptops to watch TV. Extenders are only a small part of MC's footprint now but will eventually grow.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
My but Paul's in a cranky mood today...
DRWAM
on Jan 14, 2009
Netbooks with Windows 7 may be become the favorite companion of college students. It could handle all scholastic their needs and media needs/hobbies as well. Use Skype and/or Magicjack for phone service, and they are pretty well good to go. Maybe it can replace expensive cell phone service [Magicjack].
DRWAM
on Jan 14, 2009
Weedster, I bought a TV tuner card for $20, to watch and record TV on my XP PC. This was 3 or 4 years ago and had acceptable quality. I can only imagine what they can do today. The card I selected had a standard coax [F conector] for cable TV. Did the dorm use need coax or OTA antenna?
tayme
on Jan 14, 2009
@Paul - "The list of Microsoft consumer stinkbombs is a mile high..." You forgot my favorite...The SPOT watch! --tayme
tayme
on Jan 14, 2009
@DRWAM - I am a huge fan of Media Center. I have a tuner card in my PC that has both the coax in and the A/V in. It is not a high end card...and it works great. I posted the other day about this, but I'll repeat it here...I have DirecTV connected via the A/V in and get pretty decent quality recordings...That is on my desktop...I can copy the dvr-ms files to my MBP running Vista and view them on the go, too!!! I've thought about building a MC PC for the living room, since the daughter took the 360 away to college. There are some pretty cool cases that Waethorn has posted links to in the past. --tayme
kadarzsolt
on Jan 14, 2009
One thing would give life to Media Center: Vesa mountable PCs (can be attached to the back side of a TV or monitor) that have the following features 1. relatively high performance (dual core celeron or Pentium Dual Core) 2. fair amount of memory (one 2GB stick might do) 3. have built in tuner 4. be very silent, maybe even run with passive cooling Such a PC would not need legacy ports, like COM, LPT, PS2 and would replace large PC cases that are loud because of the fans on the PSU, CPU and GPU. The Vesa mountable PCs I have seen are underpowered for Vista/7 Media Center and lack TV Tuners (Via and ASUS makes such boxes).
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
tayme Actually, I use a SPOT watch every day and dread the day it dies. I get news alerts, sync'd events from my Outlook calendar, local travel times with real-time traffic for different routes (right now taking the I-90 bridge rather than SR 520 will save you 15 minutes on a trip from Seattle to Redmond) , IM from Messenger. It's definitely saved me many, many times. Of course the SPOT technology didn't fail, it just moved over to the GPS navigation units (both 3rd party and built-in) where it's a little less UI constrained. Still, though, it'd take a LOT to get me to give mine up
shark47
on Jan 14, 2009
I think Media Center will take off when they make the Internet TV thing better. A collaboration with Hulu would definitely help.
Waethorn
on Jan 14, 2009
"It could handle all scholastic their needs and media needs/hobbies as well." Sorry, but just no. Many colleges and universities in Canada require specific computer hardware and software licensing for their students. Most now require domain rights, and the only way to get that is with a Windows version that supports domain join. That excludes Windows XP Home, and Vista Home versions. Also, many tech courses require that students use systems with enough processing power to run things like Autocad, 3D Studio or Maya, 3rd-party network connection software for wireless, etc. "There are some pretty cool cases that Waethorn has posted links to in the past." I like the ATX cases with the built-in 7" LCD touch screens on the front. They're ideal for a jukebox PC running Vista Media Center.
Waethorn
on Jan 14, 2009
@Doc: Most college IT departments specifically lay out specs for each course. I tell any college kid and/or their parents to consult the IT department FIRST before even looking at buying a computer. Some schools even require that you lease the computers from them for a huge amount of money.
Avro
on Jan 14, 2009
On my visit to Canada last year I noticed a large number of MacBooks in use. The University was the largest Mac dealer in the area and it was a big University. I asked about any problems using Mac and was told no. There was a wireless University network the students used and it really did not make any difference whether you were using Windows, OS X or Linux.
lotsamystuff
on Jan 14, 2009
"In fact, every single consumer electronics product that Microsoft has made has lost money." I'm so glad to know that came from you, because whenever anyone who uses an Apple Inc. product points it out, we're labeled as part of the "iCabal" when, in fact, we're just pointing out the truth. "The Teddy Ruxbin bear thing. (And you thought I'd forgotten.) " No, but you forgot to mention SPOT Watches, one of which you raved about in a review on this very site ("But it's clear that SPOT is here to stay, and an almost mind-blowing capabilities expansion for the sorts of everyday products we frankly don't think much about normally."). Despite that omission, you're spot-on (no pun intended) this time. Thank you, Mr. Thurrott.
shark47
on Jan 14, 2009
On my visit to India four years ago, I noticed a large number of PCs in use. I asked about any problems using Macs and was told no. They had never used them so they weren't aware of any problems. When wae posted an anecdote the other day, someone said that every anecdote deserved an equal and opposite one, so I guess I was just doing my part.
lotsamystuff
on Jan 14, 2009
"Some schools even require that you lease the computers from them for a huge amount of money." That's usually due to centralized dipsh1t-managed IT departments, and it amounts to extortion. In that case, I'd find another school. It's not like there's a lack of competition. "I asked about any problems using Mac and was told no." Of course not, since a Mac will run Windows quite well, thankyouverymuch. "My but Paul's in a cranky mood today..." He's experiencing a rare moment of lucidity.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
"So much for Apple's theory about there being no money to be made in that market." Realistically, Microsoft being able to make money in that market doesn't mean Apple could. The Apple business model requires that they make money on the hardware - a lot of money on the hardware. On the other hand, it's hard to say why the Mac Book Air doesn't qualify as a netbook. They both have small hard drives, limited I/O ports, no removable media drives, limited RAM, limited graphics. Maybe Apple is just saying "while we can make a netbook, there's no way we're going to charge netbook prices for one"
DRWAM
on Jan 14, 2009
Mike, I guess that I never thought of the MBA as a netbook because of price, but I agree with your point. I am used to thing under $500, and possibly, even smaller screens. Aren't a lot of Windows netbooks upgradeable?
Ocean
on Jan 14, 2009
>>Apple's theory about there being no money to be made in that market.<< About netbooks? Did they say that? Didn't they say they didn't know how to make a $500 netbook that wasn't junk?
Ocean
on Jan 14, 2009
Ars lays the smackdown on Galos: >>Netbooks are all about a particular kind of compromise: they greatly increase mobility, albeit at the cost of general usability. You can head out hiking, pop over to the DMV to renew your license, or hit the road and still stay connected with a platform that remains highly portable. In Apple's product line, the iPhone fills this niche far better than any of its laptops, including the MacBook Air. There's simply no way to stick an Air into your pocket or a small handbag. << http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2009/01/13/the-iphone-and-ipod...
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
DRWAM It kind of reminds me of the 1980s Cadillac Cimarron where Cadillac rebadged a Chevy Cavallier, added different upholstery and charged Cadillac prices for it. Was it a GM econobox? By price, absolutely not. By any other measure, of course. On a hopeful note, the Cimarron disaster finally shook up Cadillac to start producing cars they could be proud of after a couple of decades of brand management rather than engineering.
daveinla
on Jan 14, 2009
Very good sense analysis. MS will never be a CE brand. People associate MS with the thing they have to deal with when they are at work...
bettieblu
on Jan 14, 2009
"Last fall I went back to my school on a recruiting trip and you would not believe how many people in the dorms are using their laptops to watch TV." That is probably very true, but using media center? I watched last weeks episode of "The Unit" last night using a Mac and going to CBS site. It was a full screen HD stream. If your going to record TV onto a PC media center is good. There are other alternatives but media center is really good. If your going to just watch TV show, meh a browser is all you need. There is so much free stuff online now, and 99% works on any OS or browser. Every major network posts their shows, most in HD online. Add Hulu, Netflix and now Block buster and you have a ton of "legal" content online.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
Ocean That Ars analysis suffers from "let's disqualify a product we want to protect from a comparison that would make it look bad by declaring a criterion that it doesn't meet as the only defining characteristic" logic. It's as if Motor Trend in 1982 said, "the Cimmaron by Cadillac can't be compared with other econoboxes (despite it being a GM J-body econobox) because to be in this comparison the car must have vinyl upholstery"
bettieblu
on Jan 14, 2009
@ Mike I agree with "The Apple business model requires that they make money on the hardware - a lot of money on the hardware." and they have been doing that quite well over the last two years with record growth. I also agree with "Maybe Apple is just saying "while we can make a netbook, there's no way we're going to charge netbook prices for one" If Apple ever makes a netbook, I dont think they will, they will wait to see how that market flushes out, then try to put a twist on it and spin it like crazy with marketing. I would imagine a tablet/netbook option that is really nothing but a bigger iTouch/iPhone and using some new mobile mutli-core cpu that they own part of from the company they just bought, so it can use that grand central stuff. I still dont think they will go that route. I still dont think netbooks will make a serious dent in notebook market share. They will sell a lot of them but nothing compared to real notebooks. MS needs to make Windows 7 lighter for a couple of reasons. 1. Vista has bad rep of being bloated, and it needing more RAM than XP and not being used for netbooks, only back up that belief. 2. Snow Leopard is doing it and dont think for a second that Apple will not use that point. I imagine them going after Vista with something like "Leopard was faster/better performing than Vista, the new lighter PPC code-less, intel only, Snow Leopard is even better" or some spin like that. If they come out with SL before 7 they will really go after Vista since it will be the current version of Windows. Windows 7 if lighter can counter that.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
bettieblu Apple has a long history of saying "we don't think there's any reason to be in market x" followed up by them entering market x. Usually they don't get asked about that. When they do, they spin it as "the new Apple x has redefined what a "market x" is" As for Snow Leopard, realistically, Apple will spin it as revolutionary to justify the upgrade pricing but the reality is that however Windows 7 compares to Snow Leopard won't really matter. It's not as though reviewers actually did benchmarking on Vista. (When they do, it's typically faster than Windows XP at the same tasks). They typically just echoed whatever gossip they heard.
DRWAM
on Jan 14, 2009
I don't agree that my iPhone has the same, let alone more functionality than a netbook, especially one the would have Windows 7. Even when we get Documents-to-Go for iPhone, I can't see typing a report on the iPhone, but it's easily done with a netbook. A netbook can also use a printer, practically any printer. While there may be some app for the iPhone, it probably work work as well. Also, a netbook would not require a phone contract starting at $60/month. That's why I was suggesting Magicjack and Skype.
Lindy
on Jan 14, 2009
@bettie a apple netbook or whatever would cost at least $1000 no doubt in my mind.
lotsamystuff
on Jan 14, 2009
"mikegalos", I tip my hat to your ability to completely change the subject of the conversation, while not being called out on it. You've managed to take a story by Paul about Microsoft's failure to compete in Consumer Electronics and turn the discussion into a rant about Apple's nonexistent Netbook pricing. Remarkable.
johnpapola
on Jan 14, 2009
Good post, Paul.
Waethorn
on Jan 14, 2009
"That's usually due to centralized dipsh1t-managed IT departments, and it amounts to extortion." No, it's due to the fact that the systems come preloaded with software from companies that don't have educational licensing for the software that's required for the workload (some software vendors only provide restricted versions for the educational market, and are not a good tool for students planning on actually using the full versions in the workplace), and would cost thousands more for the student. Speaking of anecdotes, just because you think you know, doesn't make it so. "Vista has bad rep of being bloated, and it needing more RAM than XP" Every Windows version that I can remember always doubled the *realistic* minimum RAM requirements of its predecessor. Looking back: Vista: 1GB XP: 512MB 2000: 256MB Me: 128MB 98SE: 64MB 98: 32MB 95 "Gold" (RTM)/OSRx: 16MB Anybody have a different experience with each OS? These are the values that I distinctly remember having decent performance for a very moderate usage scenario in each case. "Snow Leopard is doing it" If pruning PowerPC code makes the Intel code somehow faster, then Apple's dev team sucks.
Lindy
on Jan 14, 2009
@drwam I dont think apple will actually make one. There have been rumors of a tablet or something like that for a very long time. If they did the iPhone uses a modified version of OS X. They could easily make a device the size of netbook, even clam shell that would use OS X, and be compatible with apps for the app store, plus run normal OS X apps. Apple would probably take different approach by focusing on the 4 or 5 apps you might use with a netbook vs a full OS like Windows on a netbook. Both have their pro's and cons. Also some netbooks come with 3G cards in them already so your data plan would still be the same price as the iPhone data plan. Like Betti said Apple bought, this year I think, PA Semi a cpu design company founded by some X intel guys that created the ARM cpu's. They probably will use whatever the create from that in future iPhones or whatever else.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
Lotsa You see, the reason I didn't get "called out" for being off topic is that I was on topic. If you'd actually read the post or even the title you'd see that it's a story about netbooks and Windows 7 and I commented on what Paul actually wrote about Apple and netbooks in his article. You should actually try reading the articles and posts before starting a meta-flame. You probably wouldn't look as desperate.
Avro
on Jan 14, 2009
I was at a conference back in October and I found a number of people were using their netbooks for the same thing I was using my 2G iPod Touch for, but we went on to a day long meeting in London and nobody wanted to lug their netbook along with them while those of us with an iPod Touch were fine. If it doesn't fit in my pocket, I might as well bring a notebook. The iPod Touch is Apple's version of the netbook and it is selling well. Apple might go for a netbook, but I don't think they need to.
Waethorn
on Jan 14, 2009
@mike: Losta just likes to b*tch and chew about other users.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
Avro You must have awfully big pockets if you can fit a netbook in them. Perhaps I need to buy special pants or maybe a shirt with a kangaroo pouch. The only criterion that keeps the Mac Book Air from being treated as Apple's amazingly expensive netbook is that the size (in 2 dimensions) is too big to fit in somebody's mythical pocket. Otherwise, by every other measure, it's a netbook. Limited ports? check. Limited HD? check. Light weight? check. Limited battery? check. No removable media? check. Limited RAM? check. Designed primarily for online work? check. And, since an HP Mini or an eeePC or an OLPC doesn't fit in my pockets any more than a Mac Book Air, I'd say that the pocketability criterion is moot since they all miss the mark.
DRWAM
on Jan 14, 2009
New line of apparel, netbook pockets for slacks and coats.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
DRWAM Yeah, but then we'll get the inevitable comments of, "is that a netbook in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"
chuckb84
on Jan 14, 2009
"Very good sense analysis. MS will never be a CE brand. People associate MS with the thing they have to deal with when they are at work..." Yep. You'll also notice that we don't hear the products called the "Microsoft Zune", etc, they always try to establish a new brand for the particular product, and that's failed, with the arguable exception of the Xbox. Microsoft knows that people don't see their brand as something associated with fun products.
Waethorn
on Jan 14, 2009
"And, since an HP Mini or an eeePC or an OLPC doesn't fit in my pockets any more than a Mac Book Air, I'd say that the pocketability criterion is moot since they all miss the mark." http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/12/vaio-p-doesnt-have-nothin-on-these-ot... Sony: "It's not a netbook!!" You are correct sir.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
Actually Chuck and Dave, you'll find that the VAST majority of people on the planet associate Microsoft with the computer they have at home that lets them mail pictures to their family or play games or pay bills or surf the web. I know it comes as a shock to the Mac Faithful but the world really doesn't revolve around niche players no matter how self-importantly they position themselves. Call us back to tell us what "people" think when you actually can speak for most people rather than a few percent.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
Wae I'd say those pictures (on the link) make my point pretty well... Cimmaron by Cadillac - a GM econobox at a Cadillac price Mac Book Air by Apple - a netbook at an Apple price
Avro
on Jan 14, 2009
@ Waethorn The 2G iPod Touch fits very well in my suit jacket pocket :-) .
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
"You'll also notice that we don't hear the products called the "Microsoft Zune", etc, they always try to establish a new brand for the particular product" You mean as opposed to: the Apple music player (oh, wait, that's the iPod brand) the Apple Book Air (oh, wait, that's the Mac Book brand) the iApple (no, that's the iMac brand) the Apple Phone (um, iPhone brand) Now, what was your point again?
Waethorn
on Jan 14, 2009
"The 2G iPod Touch fits very well in my suit jacket pocket" ....AND, it's not a netbook. It's not even a computer.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
Waethorn "The 2G iPod Touch fits very well in my suit jacket pocket" And aren't Apple people supposed to be the hip, creative professionals who don't wear suits? On the commercials I never see "Mac" wear a suit jacket and I never see "PC" without one.
DRWAM
on Jan 14, 2009
Avro, all I know is that if that iPhone nano does become real, and does not need a data contract [or at least pay/use/bite or something], I'm gonna be depressed. I just updated my wife's phone to a LG shine, becuase she wanted a small, simple phone, but probably would have wanted a smaller iPhone if they exist. PS, jailbreak that bad boy!
Ocean
on Jan 14, 2009
>>Ocean That Ars analysis suffers << Nice job of not saying anything about the argument they made.
Avro
on Jan 14, 2009
A suit is not the norm for me either. I was at a Palace! I usually wear a combat uniform. :-) Fits nicely in the pocket of that too!
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
DRWAM It's unlikely that you'll be seeing pay-as-you-go data plans tied to any high-end phone. The subsidy for the phone is covered by the carrier subsidy and carriers have lately been moving more and more to an all-you-can-eat style with unlimited voice/data/text at a fixed (albeit usually high) price.
Waethorn
on Jan 14, 2009
"a apple netbook or whatever would cost at least $1000 no doubt in my mind." @mike, avro, lindy: Apple iPod Touch: $259-$429 CDN Apple iPhone 3G: minimum $2627.20CDN ($60/mth plan + $6.95 access fee/mth + $0.50 911 fee/mth)*36 mths + $199 for phone. Apple iNetbook: priceless ("price·less adjective Definition: 1. impossible to put value on: worth more than can be calculated in terms of money 2. hilarious: extremely comic and amusing" -- Encarta) Apple iCredit: the new currency with which to buy the iNetbook.

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