Firefox 3 vs. Windows Vista

I've been working on my Firefox 3 review lately and one thing I'm a little bit concerned about is the reliability of this product. As many of you know, Windows Vista includes an amazing tool called the Reliability Monitor that monitors the reliability of the system and provides an ongoing reliability score, based on such things as software installs/uninstalls (which are noted, but don't affect the score), application failures, hardware failures, Windows failures, and miscellaneous failures. A failure of any kind affects the score dramatically; too dramatically, in my opinion, but give Microsoft credit for taking this seriously. If you have a day without issues, the score inches back up, but slowly: A day without issues is not seen as a big deal, whereas a day with even one issue is quite problematic. Put another way, if you have a single failure on one day, it will take three days of utter perfection to get your score back up to the previous pre-failure score.

OK, so what does this have to do with Firefox 3? Well, I've been testing pre-release versions of Firefox 3 since, well, there have been pre-release versions of Firefox 3. And on my daily-use desktop, which was most recently brought online with Vista Ultimate x64 on April 8, 2008, almost two months ago, I've been using Firefox 3 as my default browser all along. Though I don't feel that this system has been unduly unreliable, the Reliability Monitor tells another story, as seen below: The system's score, today, is 4.80 out of a possible 10. That sounds horrible. And maybe it is, though I don't think of this PC as particularly problematic.

Looking over the data, I see the following results:

Software Un(Installs): n/a
Application Failures: 16 days out of 51 days; 24 actual failures
Hardware Failures: 0
Windows Failures: 0
Miscellaneous Failures: 1 (Disruptive shutdown on 4/23/2008)

Clearly, the majority of issues were caused by applications. Here are the applications that failed over this time period and the number of days in which they failed:

vlc.exe 1
firefox.exe 12
ieuser.exe 1
Amazon Unbox Config.exe 2
safari.exe 1
pi.exe 1
photoshopelementseditor.exe 2
quicktimeplayer.exe 1
skype.exe 1
iexplore.exe 1
realplay.exe 1

Looking at this list, a few trends emerge:

  1. Fully 50 percent of all applications failures were caused by Firefox 3.
  2. Microsoft was only directly responsible for 2 of the 24 applications failures, and both were IE related.
  3. Some applications I very rarely use (Safari, RealPlayer) somehow managed to crash anyway. Good stuff.

Looking more closely at Firefox, I have to wonder if there are mitigating factors. For example:

  1. It is pre-release software after all, and I've upgraded beta-over-beta a few times in this time period.
  2. I have installed a few add-ons over time as well, and Firefox add-ons can be buggy especially when running on the next version of the browser. I currently have the following add-ons installed in Firefox 3:
    Glasser
    Hide Menubar
    Prism for Firefox
    Stylish
  3. Looking at my Wakoopa profile, I use Firefox more than any other application, by far. Using the "last month" stats, Firefox accounts for 39 percent of my PC usage, compared to 30 percent for Microsoft Word (which hasn't crashed once, naturally), 5 percent for Windows Live Writer (no issues), and 4 percent for Windows Explorer (also error free).

So. What am I to make of all this? Nothing? Or is Firefox 3 really buggy?

I'm going to try and test the browser without any add-ons for a while and see how that affects things. But this really has me wondering. Has anyone else seen huge problems with Firefox? Or I am I just seeing a side-effect from a particular add-on?

If it is add-on related, however, where do we point the finger? Is Firefox's single greatest feature--it's extensibility--really an Achilles Heel?

Discuss this Article 20

Hansii
on May 29, 2008
At least it crashes less on Vista than on Mac OS
dreimanis
on May 29, 2008
you share my thoughts exactly. i would enjoy a "perfect score" in reliability monitor if it wasn't for firefox which manages to crash every other day, sometimes twice a day.
daveinla
on May 29, 2008
Might be your add-ons. If you want a fair view of Ff3 stability run it without add-ons. 0 crashes since I run RC1 on XP with Adblock as my sole add-on. And I make heavy usage of it: at least 5 windows open all the time with a java app running all day long in a Ff window, that itself has 5 sub-windows nested. Non complain so far !
pmcgrath
on May 29, 2008
Well, you're running add on’s designed for a previous version on beta software, so, umm, what did you expect? This is an interesting side bar, but I don't think it really "means" anything. After the final release comes out and you’re still seeing the same type of bad behavior, then you'll have something to write about. Until then....meh.
bkvalheim
on May 29, 2008
Maybe it's just me...but (slap me around if I am way off base here) is anyone expecting a BETA product to be stable? Silly, I know. But maybe I missed something?
lsproc
on May 29, 2008
Its a release candidate, therefore a version which is fit for release, so it should be more stable than a beta.
fireboy92k
on May 29, 2008
I've actually been having most of my crashes in IE. And frankly I'd suspect Flash. It hangs/crashes A LOT, is hard unless your running a no script plugin to block, and even though flash.exe is what is hanging, it gets assigned to IE.
Cfischer83
on May 29, 2008
To be honest, yes, FF3 is very buggy currently, but FF2 was just as buggy for me. I use IE probably 5 times as much as I use FF yet IE crashes probably once every other month or so... Firefox seems to crash every two or three times I use it. My score, however, would probably be close to 10 (It's around 8.5 right now after a HORRIBLE day where somehow an IE crash counted as 6 crashes... ????) but ironically sometimes when I check the "reliability monitor" it crashes when I go to close it.... now that's just frustrating!!
Lindy
on May 29, 2008
When Vista first came out I used to watch this thing every once and a while. I had the same problem with IE before many patches. There were a handful of websites I would got to on a regular basis, even a MS one that would cause problems. Some problems will crash or hang IE, others were small render issues, but this tool would count them as an error...just like see in your post. All that said, like other posters have said, wait until FF3 is gold, and run only version 3 approved add on's and see what you get. Oh and maybe run it on 32bit Vista, because I remember someone saying (you) that 64bit Vista was not prime time or not for general consumption.
bkvalheim
on May 29, 2008
"lsproc said: Its a release candidate, therefore a version which is fit for release, so it should be more stable than a beta." It is NOW, but it hasn't always been.
BrightrevCarl
on May 29, 2008
I'm guessing it's either your add-ons or your Firefox profile. Like you, I run Firefox every day and have run version 3 Beta 4, 5 and RC1. I had one Firefox crash on April 9 and absolutely none since. I'm not sure if that crash was v2 or one of the v3 betas because Vista's Reliability Monitor says it was 1.9.0.3007. I use Adblock Plus, Tab Mix Plus, Tab Preview and Tiny Menu. Also, make sure you open PDFs in your PDF reader and not the browser. Opening PDFs inside the browser is crashy.
JuryDuty
on May 29, 2008
I guess it's all relative not only to what you use, but what you have installed. I have Firefox 3 RC installed and have had very few crashes in Vista and I have about 10 add-ons. On the other hand, my Reliability Monitor shows that my 2007 Outlook.exe has crashed at least 3x a day since March. If I had to draw a conclusion, it would be that Outlook is the worst program ever and Firefox 3 beta is one of the best, considering how much I use each. Go figure.
underdone2
on May 29, 2008
"JuryDuty said: On the other hand, my Reliability Monitor shows that my 2007 Outlook.exe has crashed at least 3x a day since March. If I had to draw a conclusion, it would be that Outlook is the worst program ever and Firefox 3 beta is one of the best, considering how much I use each." It's worth noting that Outlook can become unstable due to poorly written addons. I have personally had a horrible time with stability in FF2 and FF3. In fact, IE8 Beta 1 has been more stable than the FF3 release candidate for me.
weedmonk
on May 29, 2008
"So. What am I to make of all this? Nothing? Or is Firefox 3 really buggy? " Ans. Nothing. But it did give you a another reason to b!tch about FF. Btw if we're comparing systems and pretending thats actual "data" .....Explorer.exe is my worst crasher.
howarddenton
on May 29, 2008
Surprise surprise! Microsoft's man downs Firefox 3 BETA version with add on's for reliability! Get real! Keep pluging those Microsoft catch up products Paul. The rest of the world is moving on. Get yourself an a decent operating system.
Digitarius
on May 29, 2008
I just did a super-clean Vista installation, installing FF Beta 3 (which WAS very unstable, imo) then moving to RC1 pretty recently. Over the past 24 days (since install), I have had exactly one app crash: Sid Meiers' Alpha Centuari (Which was a pain to get to work) and it crashed once. Firefox, running Adblock+, CSLite, NoScript, Flashblock, DTA, and Download Helper has crashed...! Zero times. And I am a heavy browser, usually ending up with a couple of separate windows with a bunch of tabs in each. If you are having reliability issues (That can't be explained by Addons), try deep sixing your profile and making a new one from scratch (You can, of course, export/import your bookmarks) During Beta 2 I decided to do this with the profile that I've had for a few years now, and the difference can be night and day.
pthurrott
on May 29, 2008
Lots of info here, thanks. First of all, I don't run any add-ons that aren't FF3 compatible. Since posting this, however, I have removed all add-ons (well, all extensions, to be precise). bkvalheim : Mozilla is positioning RC1 for average users, so yeah, I do expect it to be stable. I wouldn't have had these expectations back at Beta 2 or whatever. howarddenton: Insults aside, I've been using FF since it was Phoenix and I'm a huge supporter. I'm in the FF 1.0 full-page add, for crying out loud. Any criticism I have of FF is because I actually use it and advocate its use, and yeah, I expect it to work. Sorry if that's offensive for some reason. I may wipe everything out for the final release of FF 3.0. I don't "do" much with the profile (I don't use bookmarks at all, for example) but it's worth trying. I'll see if the removal of add-ons fixes this. If so, great. I'm not trying to do a FF3 hatchet job, just figure out what's up.
xtreem0
on May 29, 2008
I have found that Firefox has crashed on me a countless number of times on my mac. Not as much on my PC mind you i don't use it as my main browser. For me every time i close firefox it crashes on my mac and i have no idea why... (i have no addon's)
beanboy89
on May 30, 2008
You know, I've had very few Vista crashes recently. Although I don't use Firefox 3 as my main browser, I haven't had any crashes caused it, for the record. My Vista install, which has been chugging along for exactly a year now is running around 9.55 in the Reliability Index.
war59312
on May 31, 2008
Yeah firefox crashes here almost every day. :(

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