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First hints of Microsoft’s 'fight back' ads appear

Jul. 22, 2008 Paul Thurrott | Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows

Ed Bott blogs about the first signs of Microsoft fighting back against Apple's switcher FUD:

I just noticed this teaser on Microsoft’s home page:

If this is going to be the overall message of Microsoft’s much-vaunted new $300 million ad campaign, it might be money well spent.

As Tim Anderson astutely noted the other day, “Vista is now actually better than its reputation. That’s a marketing issue.” Microsoft’s biggest challenge is to get would-be customers to set aside whatever preconceptions they have and listen to its pitch for Vista. Aligning its most vocal Vista critics with the Flat Earth Society is a clever way to get people’s attention.

Interesting read. This thing better be aggressive though. Microsoft needs to make a mark here.

BTW: 2.5 million Macs were sold in the last quarter. We know that Microsoft sold 40 million Windows Vista licenses in the last 2/3 of that quarter, so that's about 50-60 million units for the quarter. Do the math, flat-earthers.

Discuss this Article 85

Snakedoctor1
on Jul 22, 2008
I will do the math. 2.5 million Macs were sold last quarter, as in computers, with a nice profit. Microsoft sold ZERO computers last quarter, as in Zero profit made for selling computers. They probably took a loss on the Xbox and Zune hardware. This is why your WW market share numbers dont mean jack. This is why even though Apple has 3.5% of the WW OS share it will make 30 billion or 50% of what MS will make this year. If Apple gets to 10% WW market share for OS X, then maybe they will just buy MS????? When your ready to talk Apples to Apples then your points might be valid.
lehenbauer
on Jul 22, 2008
Also we know by how Microsoft counts sales they're counting every XP downgrade as a Vista sale. They expected MS-beholden press to tout the distorted Vista sales number and they have not been disappointed. I've been wondering, did anyone's thing touted as an "xyz killer" ever kill xyz? I suspect not, because their eyes are on the thing they're trying to kill, instead of trying to be the best they can be. Now this new campaign trying to tell people that Vista doesn't suck, same deal.
johnpapola
on Jul 22, 2008
Paul, I have to say: you suck at market analysis. When it comes to market share, you are a one-note, thoughtless drone that is contributing no information, meaning or value to our discourse. ZERO. This is coming from a reader and listener that otherwise respects your opinions and finds many of your criticisms of Apple quite valid. Microsoft's high-margin business and 96% marketshare netted them 14 billion in profit for 2007. Apple's 3.5% marketshare and relatively small portfolio of other products netted them 3.5 billion in profit in 2007. So for all your mindless repetition of basic arithmetic, Microsoft's 96% share and all it's other business only earn it 4 times the money that Apple makes with it's 3.5% share. Put that brain of yours to some damn use, man. This is really getting pathetic.
johnpapola
on Jul 22, 2008
oh... and read this to help jump start the thinking I know you're capable of... http://marketing.wharton.upenn.edu/ideas/pdf/Armstrong/myth_of_market_sh...
brostbeef
on Jul 22, 2008
I have to agree with Paul and Ed Bott. People's thoughts about Vista are definitely all about "knowing" that it sucks. Everyone is going with the majority's opinion rather than doing their own research. By doing their own research we know that although Vista may be slow for games, it is way more secure and all the "normal", everyday users should be using Vista. As for doing the math: I really don't care. If/when I feel that Apple is making a superior computer, I will use Apple. Apple makes a superior MP3 player, so I bought it. Sharp made a superior* LCD TV so I bought it. Microsoft is currently using a superior* operating system, and I will continue to use it until the one day that it is no longer superior*. (*by superior I meant the best solution to fit my needs) THE END
johnpapola
on Jul 22, 2008
And for the record... I think that Vista is the best OS Microsoft has ever shipped and when I saw it fully expected it to slow the Mac's growth.
chuckb84
on Jul 22, 2008
The paradox here is why Paul and the rest of the Wincabal are so threatened. What's up with that? Why does Paul need to constantly remind everyone of the Mac global marketshare? If Apple is so tiny, why so worried? And Microsoft is going to spend $300M reminding everyone that Vista doesn't suck. If everything is rosy, sales are great, no worries, then why do that? The logical conclusion is that, despite the constant chest thumping about huge Vista sales, tiny Mac "marketshare", that they're worried. You know what: They should be. Despite current sales, and current marketshare, Microsoft is a rudderless ship. What passes for "leadership" at Microsoft is just sad.
Snakedoctor1
on Jul 22, 2008
Also for the record, I will say Vista, now after SP1 and many fixes is good OS, the most secure desktop OS they have ever made. I would recommend it now to a home user that ruled out a Mac for whatever reason, based upon Security alone, since Vista can help the users that just cant stop them selves from doing the well known common things that bring on the pain of malware. If a home user has newer PC hardware with XP on it, and has not been hit with malware (from their own actions), then I would not recommend a upgrade from XP to Vista at this point as I dont see enough value right now to justify the cost.
DRWAM
on Jul 22, 2008
AT this point in time, there is almost no one that I know, that believes Vista is bad. XP is no longer an option at our retail stores, so they just buy a Vista PC. This ad may be informative, but is probably lame. This snipit looks pretty boring. The initial Zune ads were pathetic, but now, though few and far between, they are better. You can load an ad with much info, but you need to make it interesting to make it believable and memorable. I hope MS can find someone to execute well, but based upon past ads, I doubt that it will be.
MaryW
on Jul 22, 2008
Could I advise all readers to actually READ Ed Bott's post. And the Microsoft Vista page that he links to. "first signs of Microsoft fighting back against Apple's switcher FUD" Paul, you may want to re-read them as well! The initial problems with Vista were not created by Apple. The remaining problems, whether real or perceived, were not created by Apple. Sure, they "joined the conversation" with their 'Get-a-Mac' ads, but the conversation had already been started by the mainstream tech press, tech pundits and bloggers. Most of whom were far from Apple fanboys... they were simply disappointed with the latest OS from Microsoft ..... and said so ... often! Microsoft is NOT spending $300 million on this campaign because of Apple. Slower than expected uptake of Vista in the enterprise is certainly not due to some amusing TV ads from Apple. Apple's campaign was strongest in the US. Followed by Japan and the UK. It was virtually non-existent everywhere else. Microsoft has admitted that there WERE problems with Vista. And they sure as hell know that they are left with a big perception problem. The people there are sensible and bright enough to know that it's not John Hodgman's fault! .... and before you start writing your "Get-a-PC" scripts take not of this from Ed Bott. "Responding directly to those ads is a losing tactic"
Snakedoctor1
on Jul 22, 2008
Yeah since they actually lost some market share (tiny for sure) shouldn't that ship be sitting lower in the water:)
RobertC
on Jul 22, 2008
johnpapola, can I also say that you equally suck at market analysis. You yourself have confused the numbers by making simplistic and flawed market share comparisons. Your 3.5% number ignores the over 80% share that Apple enjoys in the MP3 player market, a market dominance that derives a substantial amount of profit for Apple, but which is totally unrelated to the OS market share statistics. Also, your logic practically assumes that there is only one market, when indeed Microsoft and Apple participate in several different markets in which either company may exert greater market power. In Microsoft's case, it dominates productivity and operating system software markets, whilst Apple dominates the hard disk MP3 playing market. The difference is that while the majority of Microsoft's profit is software driven, Apple is becoming increasingly reliant on consumer electronic devices to source its profit, meaning that these silly market share quarrels are stupid because the reality is that both companies are very different. As I said in another post, it actually doesn't "hurt" Microsoft if Apple sells more Macs, because Macs are simply another market for Microsoft software, particularly for Office which is the most popular productivity application on OSX; and increasingly, Windows - bootcamp now allows dual booting on Macs - once again there is more opportunity for Microsoft to sell more Windows licences. So please guys, stop squealing and actually look past the superficial and rather dumb blogosphere analysis. Most blogs are designed for getting more clicks rather than for substantive and objective analysis. All you guys are really engaging in is a fanboy pissing contest. How lame.
cesjr
on Jul 22, 2008
Take away all of the Vista-specific problems with Windows and you're still left with a big problem - the hardware comes from one company, the OS from another and key apps from more parties. It still makes for a support nightmare (pointing fingers at the other guy). MS's other "perception problem" is a reverse one - MS was (and continues) to benefit from the false perception that there is no choice (you "have to" go with windows). This is diminishing rapidly with each quarter of millions of macs sold. This factor may be driving mac sales even more than Vista's perception problem.
Snakedoctor1
on Jul 22, 2008
@ Doc "AT this point in time, there is almost no one that I know, that believes Vista is bad" That is suprising. I do side work in the SB world for a buddy of mine that owns his own consulting firm. His focus is on MS and the SB community. Most of his clients run SBS2003 and Windows desktops. They are all over the map, lawyers, doctors, real estate, property management, landscaping etc. At this point 90% of the think Vista is BAD and some forbid the use of Vista right now. For instance he has a contract with a real esate office where agents bring in their own PC's and they pay an IT fee to get support, the owner of the real estate company makes money off this I would imagine. Anyhow in the beginning Vista caused a lot of problems with industry software and printing to some massive printers, to the point my buddy was billing a lot of hours trying to get this software to work with Vista. So the owner told the agents Vista wont be supported. He will pay for my buddy to down grade and agent PC to XP if the agent wants to, or they get no support. My buddy is making some good money off of this. He also works with Dell and gets a cut when he sells a Dell to a client, he has told me that his customers love the fact that Dell is continuing to sell XP. Now my buddy is a full on MS freak, certified partner, goes to Tech-ED every year, owns Zunes, WM, 360's and all and he is the one telling me this.
Snakedoctor1
on Jul 22, 2008
@Robertc your point is right on....Paul compared Mac hardware sales to Vista OS sales, then he asked the non cool-aid drinker to "do the math" "BTW: 2.5 million Macs were sold in the last quarter. We know that Microsoft sold 40 million Windows Vista licenses in the last 2/3 of that quarter, so that's about 50-60 million units for the quarter. Do the math, flat-earthers." Apples to Oranges.
Mum
on Jul 22, 2008
Uhhhhhh... If this is the beginning of Microsoft's answer to Apple's "I'm a Mac"-ads then it's unbelievably pathetic so far. Certainly it would have been bad to directly answer Apple's ads as the article points out, but what is it with all the apologizing? Microsoft is the company that people generally do not trust very much, so why did they think that admitting Vista was not great when it came out would somehow make things better? "Windows Vista: Look how far we've come" The wording just sucks there. Sounds just like "Look, we're getting where everyone else has been for a long time now!"
RobertC
on Jul 22, 2008
cesjr, what you call a "big" problem, is really just a re-run of the "get-a-mac" spin. The fact is that the PC ecosystem makes the PC more accessible to more people than Apple. That is one point that Paul has made that I totally agree with. If you just want a basic appliance that does web browsing, email and word processing, there are literally hundreds of cheap options for the PC. Not so with Mac. Also, the fact that several different parties are involved may lead to finger pointing but the reality is that everyone enjoys a bit of choice. And most of the big PC makers have pretty decent warranty policies if problems arise (at least in my country, Australia). The logical extension of your argument is to have every piece of hardware and software made by one supplier. Sorry, but you can keep your communist nirvana.
johnpapola
on Jul 22, 2008
@RobertC, You're right that the iPod contributes quite a bit to Apple's revenue. However, Microsoft has a very large collection of products beyond Windows one of particular interest here: Office, which makes nearly as much for them as Windows and has nothing to do with operating system share. So Apple has the iPod. Microsoft has Office. You point this out in your post yet don't make the connection. This only further highlights the pathetic state of Paul's obsession with pushing Worldwide market share as the end-all-be-all. There is a simple fact. Worldwide share is a stat used by platform zealots to bash the mac. That's it. It has no other value. It doesn't provide any information regarding the value or viability of the Mac platform for users. It doesn't reflect the health or profitability of Apple. It offers no information of value other than showing the overall market trend... and providing fodder for Paul to pander to the worst partisans among his readers. I'm quite confident in the quality of my analysis on this issue. I'm not repeating it entirely here since I've done so many MANY times to no avail. Paul is playing in the gutter of the blogosphere with this stuff, his "iCabal" attacks and this "Do the math 'flat-earthers" line. That he can turn around and go after other pundits and bloggers for hyperbole at the same time is the height of hypocrisy.
lotsamystuff
on Jul 22, 2008
"The logical extension of your argument is to have every piece of hardware and software made by one supplier. Sorry, but you can keep your communist nirvana." Most of the hardware attached to my Mac was made by someone other than Apple. Most of the software I run was written by a company other than Apple. So what's your point (other than the one atop your skull)?
RobertC
on Jul 22, 2008
My point was to highlight the imbecility of cesjr's assumption that having more, rather than less, suppliers in the chain is necessarily a "big problem". Read what he said for yourself. Your own individual circumstances highlight the inherent stupidity of his statement.
lotsamystuff
on Jul 22, 2008
"This thing better be aggressive though. Microsoft needs to make a mark here." Why, exactly? I'm not asking a rhetorical question. I'm serious. Your marketshare analysis shows that people aren't abandoning Microsoft in any significant numbers. XP isn't even generally available any longer, and there's no real competition for the de facto monopoly held by Microsoft. People are going to buy PCs running Microsoft software, and even if Apple were to magically double its market share (which ain't gonna happen, let's be honest), it still wouldn't put a significant dent in the Microsoft Juggernaut. So exactly whom are they marketing against? What are they afraid of? Repeatedly, the posters on this board point to Apples "I'm a Mac" ads as having damaged Vista's reputation. Likewise, you point out--correctly--that they've had little impact on Apple's market share. The only thing they seem to have accomplished is to get under the skin of the WinJihadists. Therefore, a $300 Million marketing campaign to swat a fly as insignificant as y'all seem to think Apple is seems like the equivalent of strapping a rocket engine to a Yugo for the sole purpose of visiting the corner grocery. Seriously...wouldn't this money be better spent elsewhere?
lotsamystuff
on Jul 22, 2008
Robert: My apologies. I see your point. If I could delete my post, I would.
RobertC
on Jul 22, 2008
johnpapola, in case you hadn't noticed, the United States is not a universe unto itself (some may haplessly argue otherwise). There ARE other countries in the world and thus worldwide market share statistics are perfectly valid to highlight the extravagant Apple hyperbole when they move from 3.2 to 3.5% market share. Does that mean the Mac is a useless platform unworthy of attention - certainly not. It just means that Apple is guilty of misleading and false advertising much of the time with an overhyped sense of self-importance. I need not list the obscene lies that are prevalent in much of the Apple marketing spiel. I have absolutely no problems with Apple surviving and growing stronger as a company. But there becomes a point when you just have to say to Steve Jobs: "grow up!"
Snakedoctor1
on Jul 22, 2008
"thus worldwide market share statistics are perfectly valid to highlight the extravagant Apple hyperbole when they move from 3.2 to 3.5% market share." for just the OS market share only:)
RobertC
on Jul 22, 2008
The funny thing is, lotsamystuff, is that Microsoft literally has the spare cash lying around to swat flies as it pleases. That's what is so astounding when you think about it and the fact that their share price consistently underestimates what at monstrous cash cow the company really is! That aside, you're perfectly correct that the exercise is somewhat fruitless - given that the Windows market share remains pretty constant regardless of the switcher ads. However, a positive of the ad campaign may well be to improve Microsoft's relationship with consumers in general. But that will depend on just how clever the campaign turns out to be. Furthermore, I think we can all agree that Microsoft needs a PR make over either way. Their whole marketing approach is an irrelevant, and vacuous, dog's breakfast
tayme
on Jul 22, 2008
I agree with teh apples to oranges comparison to a point. If you are counting Vista licenses sold with hardware AND Vista licenses sold in a cardboard box off the shelf, then you MUST do the same with OS X. That would be true apples to apples...or Apple to Microsoft as the case is. I am not sure what numbers Paul is and has been using. Regarding the adoption of Vista in the Enterprise...that is normal. XP had the same "delay". It would be irresponsible for any good IT shop to roll out an OS without testing and updating all of their homegrown apps. This takes time...and in today's false "economic downturn", resources are extremely limited. Again, I say...there is room for more than one OS to be successful and there is no need for a winner and/or loser in this silly "OS War". But, it is all good, clean geek fun...most of the time - so, I would like to go on record to say that the Elektronika BK running NORD is the best and the rest of you are all koolaid drinkers if you don't agree with me!!! ;-) --tayme
DRWAM
on Jul 22, 2008
Rob, as an average user, I don't need 100's of choices for daily PC uses such as web browsing, email and word processing, Only a few good ones will do. In fact, fewer choices [quality that is] makes it even easier to choose. I still think that price mostly dictates what a computer buyer will purchase.That said, paying half the price of an entry level Mac, to buy a PC that is 'good enough' for all your needs. including your iPod or Zune, is probably a more likely reason to not buy a Mac. The buyer has money left over to buy more music, or gas and food. This is what I have seen in my area at least, especially those not driving up in a BMW or Benz.
DRWAM
on Jul 22, 2008
I agree tayme. I have over 300 employees and a lot of computers in the company. When we buy new, we downgrade to XP and [I guess] save the Vista license. I just easier as we know it works and no personnel gets confused. I find myself using the wrong copy and paste shortcut keys going from Mac to PC. Why in the heck didn't Apple put them in the same place?
johnpapola
on Jul 22, 2008
Robert, With all due respect... "It just means that Apple is guilty of misleading and false advertising much of the time with an overhyped sense of self-importance" That's not a fair statement at all. Apple's marketing no more misleading or false than Microsoft's. Let's not attack hyperbole by BEING HYPERBOLIC.
johnpapola
on Jul 22, 2008
Microsoft's marketing and PR reflect the disunity of it's products and services. This isn't a matter of switching agencies. It's a matter of reviewing their product strategy and making align and connect for consumers. They have the business story and it's strong. Their consumer product story is all over the map. That's what you get when you chase every market under the sun and don't focus. Chalking their issues up to marketing isn't paying close enough attention. Brand is a function of product first and foremost. This is why the communication in this effort of their is right up front addressing the fact that real customers have had real complaints. Bravo to them for the effort. And sure these are the standard growing pains of an OS transition. But there remains large areas of the Microsoft experience that don't connect. They should review their entire consumer-face product portfolio and clean it up. Make it easy to understand and make it connect the way you'd expect. If they can do that, ads from Apple saying the mac "just works" won't resonate. The fact that the ads work isn't a sign that Apple is a mesmerizer. It's a sign that the message strikes a chord.
RaaJ
on Jul 22, 2008
John, Point me to a Microsoft ad that depicts these misleading marketing. Put money where your mouth is.
Ocean
on Jul 22, 2008
>>BTW: 2.5 million Macs were sold in the last quarter. We know that Microsoft sold 40 million Windows Vista licenses in the last 2/3 of that quarter, so that's about 50-60 million units for the quarter. Do the math, flat-earthers.<< This part is off-topic and it's name-calling. Thats trolling.
Ocean
on Jul 22, 2008
Wikipedia: >>The idea of a flat Earth is that the surface of the Earth is flat (a plane), rather than the view that it is a very close approximation of the surface of a sphere. This was a common belief until the Classical Greeks began to discuss the Earth's shape about the 4th century BC.<< What century do you think that ship is from? Lame advert that could bbbbllloooowww up in MS' face.
tayme
on Jul 22, 2008
Hey, Ocean...its not trolling...it's his blog...it would be more down the lines of link baiting. Your post is closer to trolling. So, is your goal now to point out every online debat tactic by name? Wikipedia can alread do that for us. --tayme
johnpapola
on Jul 22, 2008
@RaaJ, What are you talking about? I haven't accused Microsoft of misleading marketing.
MrVictory
on Jul 22, 2008
Ocean: Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society Flat Earthers have been deluded fools up into the 21st century. These cultists were beholden to a single idea, and willing to cloud, distort, or deny any fact which disputed their silly beliefs. Sound familiar?
RaaJ
on Jul 22, 2008
@ JP: Here is what you said: "Robert, With all due respect... "It just means that Apple is guilty of misleading and false advertising much of the time with an overhyped sense of self-importance" That's not a fair statement at all. Apple's marketing no more misleading or false than Microsoft's. Let's not attack hyperbole by BEING HYPERBOLIC." Show proof of misleading or false marketing from MS. You know, something like a PCvsMac ad that blatantly and shamelessly perpetuates the myth that Vista still does not work. I am not looking for an internet anecdote.
Ocean
on Jul 22, 2008
MrVictory: True...but thats not everybody, not by a longshot. Wikipedia says: >>Link bait is any content or feature within a website that somehow baits viewers to place links to it from other websites.<< In other words, trolling. :)
cesjr
on Jul 22, 2008
RobertC says: "The logical extension of your argument is to have every piece of hardware and software made by one supplier." Not the case. There could be 2, 3 or 10 companies offering an integrated hardware/software personal computer like the Mac. Another example, in the case of portable music players and associated software - there is the iPod, and the Zune. Same model, two companies competing. The key really is having data portable between the competing offerings, then you have choice without the "finger pointing" you get with the piecemeal windows model. Apple does a pretty good job of adopting standards where it can - for example, AAC, trying to ditch DRM where the record companies allow, vCal, vCards. MS has tended not to favor open data standards, but they seem to be getting better on this (I still think they have to prove it though. time will tell). We have to push back on Apple and MS on this
johnpapola
on Jul 22, 2008
@RaaJ, What I meant to say was that Apple wasn't any worse than Microsoft in it's use of hyperbole. When I have the time, I'll dig up some examples. I leave to you to prove that Apple's marketing is so broadly dishonest as you're claiming.
subzerohitman721
on Jul 22, 2008
Being that this information from Ed Bott is just the first of many, I thought it was sheer genius. Just looking it, I got the message loud and clear. Although many Greek philosophers theorized that the world was round, it wasn't proven until Magellan's Voyage. The idea that someone actually challenged the misconception and died to ultimately prove it. It is one of the events of the Renaissance, the time when humanity broke out of the dark ages. The era when many of the most profound discoveries/advancements in art, literature, science, religion, politics, philosophy, etc. Not only is it one of my favorite periods in history, a lot of Steve Jobs' influences for the Macintosh and Apple in general come from the same period. Fortunately for us, nobody has to perish to prove that Vista is a pretty rocksolid OS. Linking the discovery of how well Vista is using the period of the Renaissance is nothing short of brilliant. To put all of the Vista Haters, ignorant tech bloggers, anti-Microsoft crowd, and others as the same fools of the dark ages is humorous. They speak of the same ignorance that made the dark ages so horrible. To cast Vista in the role of enlightenment, progress, a change in the status quo, and ultimately the victim of the attacks of the ignorant makes sense. Its a high road that doesn't take the low brow approach of Apple's "Switcher" commercials, and yet allows you to focus on the product. If this is the general theme of the counterattack, I think Microsoft get it. We are in for an interesting period of commericals and advertisements. (Cues on my iPod the John Williams score of the Imperial March from "The Empire Strikes Back.")
Waethorn
on Jul 22, 2008
"Apple's marketing no more misleading or false than Microsoft's." Naaaaaww! http://joes-blog-canada.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!DA2B394806986D5D!250.entry http://joes-blog-canada.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!DA2B394806986D5D!250.entry Pappy, it's funny how you completely forget how I prove you wrong TIME and TIME and TIME again. (Just like how you claim that Mac's are competitively priced and how I proved you wrong SEVERAL TIMES already). "I'll have the soup, and my mute friend here will have a side of crow with his foot"....
Ocean
on Jul 22, 2008
>>Although many Greek philosophers theorized that the world was round, it wasn't proven until Magellan's Voyage.<< Is that going to be the MS line? You're talking marketspeak. Wrong anyway: >>Around 330 BC, Aristotle provided observational evidence for the spherical Earth,[13] noting that travelers going south see southern constellations rise higher above the horizon. He argued that this was only possible if their horizon was at an angle to northerners' horizon and thus the Earth's surface could not be flat.[14] He also noted that the border of the shadow of Earth on the Moon during the partial phase of a lunar eclipse is always circular, no matter how high the Moon is over the horizon. Only a sphere casts a circular shadow in every direction, whereas a circular disk casts an elliptical shadow in all directions apart from directly above and directly below. -- The Earth's circumference was first determined around 240 BC by Eratosthenes. Eratosthenes knew that in Syene, in Egypt, the Sun was directly overhead at the summer solstice, while he estimated that a shadow cast by the Sun at Alexandria was 1/50th of a circle. He estimated the distance from Syene to Alexandria as 5,000 stades, and estimated the Earth's circumference was 250,000 stades and a degree was 700 stades (implying a circumference of 252,000 stades).[18] Eratosthenes used rough estimates and round numbers, but depending on the length of the stadion, his result is within a margin of between 2% and 20% of the actual circumference, 40,008 kilometres. << .
DRWAM
on Jul 22, 2008
Actually Wae, Apple definitely did not lie in the fastest laptop commercial. The Mac ad clearly states that the data is from PC world, and it was. Now if the fact is not the truth, then PC World was wrong or lied, not Apple. It was printed and therefore anyone should assume that PC World performed the test correct. I don't think that Apple had the burden of proof as well, since the data was very clearly documented. I do have a subscription tot PCWorld [and MaximumPC as well as MacWorld, but I'm letting MacWorld expire] Also, better proof would be from a non-Apple bashing site. Anyway, what did you think of the HP laptop deal that I got for my nephew? Did I do good? I'm looking for some reassurance here. Also, In my 6 ,inute drive to pick up pizza for the kids, I heard the worst FUD on radio from KYW1060 in Philly for a second time. I listened more closely as this worm explained the many ways how it was causing total 'anarchy' throughout your corporate system by infesting [in a windows system]. The promo was for http://softmart.com/hp/ and sounded like REAL FUD, and total crap. I wish you could all hear because it makes Mac/PC ads look like a wedding.
bennish
on Jul 22, 2008
Ocean, you know perfectly well the Round Earth theory wasn't *universally* accepted until after the renaissance. Although the Greeks etc had theories, the average common person in post-Rome, pre-Columbus society believed (and was told by scientists and the Church) that the Earth was flat. It doesn't matter when it was discovered, but when people believed it. the tag line is saying people used to think the Earth was flat. They don't literally mean 'everyone in the world, every single person, thought it was'. You know this. you're splitting hairs just to be annoying and look clever. Use common sense. Could blow up in their face?? Yeah, the whole advertising campaign is gonna fail, because everyone who sees it will say 'oh, no, actually it was determined by Eratosthenes' - give us a break.
bennish
on Jul 22, 2008
agreed, DRWAM, it would be nice to see a little less apple bashing on this site. I understand Paul, I get pissed off with iFans etc, but it's not terribly mature to go too far. I'm pretty sure MS is going to come out the more mature in this thing by being the ones who tout THEIR OWN ADVANTAGES, rather than PICKING ON OTHERS.
bennish
on Jul 22, 2008
What they need to do: Hire John Hodgman. Use humour. Respond to Apple without *really* responding directly to them. Make us laugh, and feel warm and friendly towards the product. That's how you win people.
DRWAM
on Jul 22, 2008
Agreed, ben, butu you're probably a lot like me. Still, I think that we are the majority and it's us that should be targeted. I just don't like any bashing. Even Ocean posted that you shouldn't blow out someone else's candle to make yours burn brighter or something like that. I want to read what merit a product has and not the nasty stuff. I don't like fighting and feeel a product should be able to stand on it's own merit and accomplishments...the high road.
cesjr
on Jul 22, 2008
"We know that Microsoft sold 40 million Windows Vista licenses in the last 2/3 of that quarter" Yea, and how many enterprises are installing Vista? How many are rolling back to XP? I guess it doesn't matter because enterprise pays MS a seat license no matter what. This is -- again -- why MS products will never be that great. They are a victim of their own success. They make billions NO MATTER WHAT. There is just no incentive to do better, or change. NONE.
Waethorn
on Jul 22, 2008
"Apple definitely did not lie in the fastest laptop commercial." lie - "a situation based on deception or a false impression" --encarta.com seems pretty obvious to me. "I don't think that Apple had the burden of proof as well" --they did-- ", since the data was very clearly documented." Exactly - it was obvious right on their page that PC World lied, and Apple repeated it. Then when PC World was outed, they tried to cover it up, and Apple pulled that ad from TV circulation only a week later. "....anyone should **assume** that PC World performed the test correct." ....and you know what they say about that....obviously an intelligent fellow Canuck picked that up right off the PC World site. Anyone else could've done the same - including Apple. Instead, they'd rather have just taken the story at face value and ran with it - and they did. Clearly they don't care whether or not it was from a trustworthy source. I guess that explains the rest of their advertising too....Now if I didn't already know any better and read that blog site, and then saw their ads for the first time, I still wouldn't take any of them seriously. In fact, I'd probably sue them for false advertising. Apple has the top 3 US newspaper tech columnists in their pocket though, so it's easy for them to get away with it. (I'd like to think how badly the US tech press would crucify them if Apple resided in a foreign country). "Anyway, what did you think of the HP laptop deal that I got for my nephew?" If you have a coupon, then it's not so bad. Obviously I'm biased though, since I offer better systems at lower prices. ;) I'll say this once to ANYONE out there. Buy an extended warranty with a name brand. ----BUT---- Buy the warranty from the manufacturer, not the big box store or online retailer. HP's extended warranty service is usually 5 business day turn around MAX, with 3 days being the average. Shipping is included for both ways, and it's couriered back and forth to your door. Big box stores want you to carry it in, and although I can't comment on Circuit City or other US stores, Best Buy and Future Shop (which Best Buy Corp. owns) can have your system for up to 8 weeks before they even consider replacing it outright. You also don't get manufacturer-certifed parts from the big-box service center. Support from name brands can sometimes be included, and othertimes (such as with Dell) be a massive extra charge even over the extended warranty. HP allows you to buy extended warranties after buying the system, even if you don't buy it directly. There is a xx-day time limit to which you can add one on though. As a note: HP consumer systems are some of the worst for added crapware. Ask for Windows reinstallation discs to do it right. Just make sure they are "vanilla reinstallation" discs though, NOT "recovery" discs. HP business systems ship that way, with drivers and applications having separate installation routines for each, on a separate disc. Oh, and get OneCare for it, instead of subscribing to the crappy Norton-whatever suite. - Say "NO!" to Norton

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