Getting it wrong about Windows Vista x64

In a rare moment of synergy, I awoke this morning to discover two supposedly trusted sources giving the same bad advice about x64 versions of Windows Vista. Seriously, sometimes it’s just tiring.

Walter Mossberg gets it wrong

First up is the Wall Street Journal’s Walter Mossberg, a man who suggests switching to Mac OS X as a cure-all for whatever issue you may be having with Windows at the time. In today’s Mossberg’s Mailbox, Walt offers up some stunningly bad advice.

Q: I have a new PC that came with a 64-bit version of the Windows operating system. It gives me a choice between using a 32-bit Internet Explorer or a 64-bit Internet Explorer. Which should I use?

A: The 64-bit version of Windows, which is rarely used by average consumers, can make the computer faster, but only when running programs that have been written in special 64-bit versions.

If I can quote the "great" Ted Stevens, former senator of Alaska, NO, NO, NO.

Native 64-bit applications do not “make the computer faster.” Just moving to a 64-bit operating system, with its massive and flat memory address space, can make some difference. But any performance improvements you may get with that platform will come about from adding more RAM, a situation that, incidentally, is true on 32-bit systems as well.

In the consumer arena, there are too few such programs, and thus too little benefit, to justify paying extra for 64-bit machines.

NO, NO, NO. That is simply not true. You do not “pay extra” for 64-bit machines. All PCs are 64-bit machines now. And you don’t pay extra for PCs that come with 64-bit versions of Vista. They’re the same price. What you get when you go x64 is more available memory, even on a PC that is constrained to 4 GB maximum. There are huge benefits to this.

In fact, most people who have computers running 64-bit Windows are mostly using older 32-bit programs, which run fine, but aren't made quicker.

So there’s no downside then. Thank God for backwards compatibility.

So, the 64-bit version of Internet Explorer may run faster.

NO, NO, NO. It won’t.

Well, except in one hilarious circumstance: Since all those add-ons you prize so much (see below) won’t work in the x64 version of IE, then yes, maybe it will actually run faster. But then, so would the 32-bit version of IE if you uninstalled those add-ons.

But there is a downside. Because of the relative rarity of 64-bit users, some browser add-ons and toolbars and some of the Web technologies that power the features of Web pages, aren't compatible with the 64-bit version of IE. On top of that, you may not notice any huge speed difference as the perceived speed of Web browsers depends more on the speed of your Internet connection than anything else. So, for now, I would stick with the 32-bit version, for compatibility's sake. You can always install the 64-bit version later, if you decide that the Web sites you frequent and the add-ons you use work well with it.

You can’t install the 64-bit version of Internet Explorer on Windows Vista. It just comes with Vista. You can choose between the 32-bit, 64-bit and No Add-Ons versions on the fly.

When it comes to this topic, this guy has no idea what he’s talking about, plain and simple. If you’re looking for the truth on Vista x64, please refer to my earlier blog post on the subject, Suddenly, 64-bit Windows is mainstream. It works just fine.

 

Windows Secrets gets it wrong

Next up, we have the Windows Secrets newsletter. (Full disclosure: I briefly wrote for Windows Secrets a few years back.) This newsletter has come under fire a lot recently for its sensationalist and easily debunked headlines and stories. Here’s the latest example:

Vince Heiker, a retired IT executive in the Dallas area has used 64-bit Vista for some time — and hates the OS.

All versions of Vista have serious compatibility glitches, including problems with Office 2007, but the 64-bit release also suffers from a lack of applications written to take advantage of that version's ability to address more than 4GB of RAM.

Um, what?

Just so we’re clear, this entire article—and all of the charges it makes—are based on the feedback of a handful of readers with very specific issues. Since this is 2008, and everyone gets a podium, we must thus consider these statements as gospel truth. Consider the following bits of silliness:

“Vista-64 is junkware. It is absolutely the worst, the buggiest software Microsoft has ever released," Heiker tells Windows Secrets.

(He must have never used Windows XP x64. But I digress.)

"ACT, a fairly popular contact-management program, will not work in 64-bit, and currently Sage has no plans to support it," reader Frank Boecherer said in an e-mail.

Also on the list of software that readers say is missing in action is a 64-bit version of Adobe's popular Flash player. And don't forget Office 2007, which comes only in a 32-bit edition.

Um, again. What??

Adobe Flash and Office 2007 work just fine in Vista x64. In fact, I use them every day.

Among the problems Heiker cites is "a jerky mouse cursor" that interprets mouse clicks in one spot on the screen as an action on a different spot.

That's not OK, particularly if you're a day trader like those Heiker supports for TradeStation.com, where a click on the wrong spot can cost serious money. Heiker says he's experienced the mouse-location problem with three different mice, all relatively new purchases.

So I’ve been using Vista x64 on a variety of machines, every single day, since April 2008. I’ve never experienced the jerky mouse thing. But this begs the question, how is it possible that Windows Secrets didn’t blame the current financial crisis on Windows Vista? It seems like Heiker spells that out pretty clear. Wow.

Heiker finally isolated the cause: the 64-bit version of Vista Ultimate failed to remove old device drivers ... "The only way to get rid of the hardware drivers was to reinstall Vista," Heiker said.

Um. How did they get on there? Did Heiker install them (and thus “Fail to not install them”)? Because there’s no way they were on there to begin with. And you can’t upgrade from Vista 32-bit to Vista x64. Sounds like user error. In fact, this whole thing sounds like a user issue, to be frank.

This is my favorite bit...

Another glitch Heiker continues to confront is a real doozy: with no explanation in sight, his 64-bit Vista PC has accumulated some 23 million Registry entries. No, that's not a typo — 23 million.

So I’m curious. How exactly did this guy “count” the Registry? Did he use a 32-bit app for this? Seriously. I’d love to know. And I’d love to know what the difference in size between the Registry in the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Vista.

"[Microsoft] haven't fixed a single problem that I've reported," he adds.

LOL. No doubt. They’ll find Sasquatch first, I bet.

You know, there’s a big difference between providing a service for readers and just scaring them over nothing. Vista x64 is a huge accomplishment, and it’s made 64-bit computing mainstream. I use it every day. And while all software has issues--obviously--there is nothing endemic going on here at all. Shame.

Discuss this Article 31

bettieblu
on Oct 9, 2008
In theory a 64 bit OS can improve speed in two ways... 1. Flatter more efficient memory architecture. Accessing memory above 2gig becomes faster. 32 bit windows has the whole 2gig Kernel/GUI to deal with, hence no need for the /3GB switch on 64bit Windows. 2. If a particular application (not Internet Explorer) is big or intensive, then if the application is re-written in 64 bit it could be faster just by the fact that lines of code/instructions are fed to the CPU in 64bit chunks vs 32bit chunks, more code gets executed at one time. That is all of course in theory. 32bit apps are tuned these days are years of coding. 64bit apps are new and probably not a tuned yet. IMHO joe user does not need more than 4gig or a 64bit OS yet.
pdileepa
on Oct 9, 2008
Windows Secrets is a scam. I realized that long ago and unsubscribed! And Walter Mossberg getting so many things wrong? Just plain unbelievable! Or, may be not -- after all, he only knows how to praise Apple.
richardfrisch
on Oct 9, 2008
Perception once again trumps reality. These two articles demonstrates that Microsoft is still SOL when it comes to Vista. No matter how much truth is dispensed it never seems to override faith and belief, at least in the world of technology.
Master3
on Oct 9, 2008
"Perception once again trumps reality. These two articles demonstrates that Microsoft is still SOL when it comes to Vista. No matter how much truth is dispensed it never seems to override faith and belief, at least in the world of technology." That's not a problem with MS as it is a problem with a tech media that lacks the ability to be honest.
Dipsh t Admin
on Oct 9, 2008
Yeah, how does one count registry entries? I've never heard that as any kind of metric used, and I'm not sure what value it has. Honestly, did we expect anything different from Mossy? This is just one in a long line of doozies that he has written, and it won't be the last.
lotsamystuff
on Oct 9, 2008
Actually, most people use a lectern, not a podium: http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/podium.html (Hey, someone had to say it before über word prig "mikegalos" chimed in)
meason
on Oct 9, 2008
hmmm...... I have been running x64 Vista and x64 Windows Server 2008 on a C2d 3.0, 4GB, P35 board based system.... I have had ZERO issues at all. No driver problems, no software problems, no OS problems nothing..... and even better you can't even tell its x64 over 32.... IT JUST WORKS!
Sir_Timbit
on Oct 9, 2008
No offence intended Paul, but wasn't your Windows Secrets book co-written with the guy that heads that Windows Secrets website? Or was that only the first edition?
subzerohitman721
on Oct 9, 2008
I am thinking about switching over to Vista 64 sometime next year since both my notebook and my desktop units are 64 bit processors. I've actually played around with Vista 64 bit systems and they run pretty damn good. The average joe might not need more than 4 GB or a 64 bit OS. If you're just email and browsing, then yes that is very true. Then again if you're not doing average things like say using real time stock trading programs, HD photo editing, computer aided design, or very average things to some people, you might need more than 4 GB. Especially if you're running iTunes, which does tend to bog things down. But yes, the average Joe wouldn't need more than 4GB. However with DDR2 ram so cheap, both Vista and Leopard users can get the 4GB's without breaking the bank.
Waethorn
on Oct 9, 2008
"IMHO joe user does not need more than 4gig or a 64bit OS" ....and "640KB should be enough for anybody", right? "yet" What??? When is hell is that??!? I mean, come on! I want Joe User to need more than 4GB and a 64-bit OS NOOOWWW!!!! ;) Actually Paul, if you read the benchmarks that Ed Bott posted a short while back, he found that Vista SP1 x64 was the fastest version. It was faster than the x86 version, and SP1 was faster than RTM, of course. What was funny was that XP SP3 was the slowest of the rated OS's. The OS's he tested were Vista x86 RTM, Vista x86 SP1, Vista x64 RTM, Vista x64 SP1, XP SP2 (x86), and XP SP3 (also x86). As far as CPU registers go, 64-bit registers will actually perform faster for floating-point instructions, but switching the CPU back and forth between x64 and x86 hybrid mode also slows down the system, but the performance benefits are minimal when measured at the register level. One thing you failed to mention was that x64 drivers-being required to be digitally signed in x64 versions of Vista - will generally be more stable than some of those fly-by-night companies that aren't bothered paying for a proper digital certificate to sign their driver code. Oh, and saying that Vista x64 is junkware because ACT won't work on it is absolute drolery. ACT is the WORST possible piece of crap contact management software I've ever laid eyes on. That said, obviously he never thought to contact Sage about 64-bit compatibility too: http://tinyurl.com/494unv "the 64-bit release also suffers from a lack of applications written to take advantage of that version's ability to address more than 4GB of RAM" LOL! What? OBVIOUSLY, the programs need to be written with 64-bit code to support that. DUH! Didn't anyone ever tell this guy that most 32-bit applications are still written as single threads too? Not to mention that they're hard-coded to 2GB of address space anyway? Who needs more than 4GB of RAM support on any single Office program anyway? Photoshop? Sure! That's why CS4 has it!
Waethorn
on Oct 9, 2008
"you might need more than 4 GB. Especially if you're running iTunes" LOL! ;)
weedmonk
on Oct 9, 2008
Mossy is the benchmark when it comes to shameless apple shills. Doesn't surprise me he's isn't versed in x64 since the "bubble icon bouncy " Kitty OSx hasn't given him a Cupertino presentation. Although in this climate I would love for him to tackle the "myth" about Mac/PC pricing with a straight face.
rseiler
on Oct 9, 2008
Paul, regarding your former association with Livingston (not that he wrote the above article), what happened there? Why is his name off the new edition of the book? The Secrets line is his, after all, and it was on the last edition.
Waethorn
on Oct 9, 2008
Ol' Uncle Wally.... ....speaking of people that need a change of adult diapers. Pee-yu, what a stinker that article was. Did he dredge that article up from back when Windows XP Pro x64 Edition came out and just change the wording to Vista? His articles reek so bad of anti-Windows fluff that you can smell him coming a mile away. Seriously, Walter. Give it up already. You'd better take Apple's pension while there still is one. "Someone get the old guy a new set of Depends!"....
Ocean
on Oct 9, 2008
I've long suspected that Paul was unhappy (and perhaps even envious) that he's a B-list tech writer (not a bad thing), instead of being an A-lister like Mossberg, Pogue, etc... Now I'm sure. His diatribes over the last couple of days lay open his insecurity for all to see.
chuckb84
on Oct 9, 2008
Weedmonk "Mossy is the benchmark when it comes to shameless apple shills" No, he isn't. Circa 1997-98 Walt told everyone not to buy Macs because of the problems with the OS relative to Win95. It's hard to find these days, even with google, but there was a rebuttal letter from the (something like) IT director at Time Magazine stating that he disagreed and that they manage to run "our little magazine" entirely on Macs. Walt changed his tune when Apple stopped making crap. You may not like what he says now, but the historical record is that he is no shill for Apple.
DRWAM
on Oct 9, 2008
I have similar craziness about medical facts, disease cause and cures, numerous times daily, even from family members. Any way, what tools can I use to test performance, especially when I play with the new RAM this weekend? I put it on my expense sheet, so it didn't cost me anything.
mdsharpe
on Oct 9, 2008
Well done Paul. This kind of nonsense needs to be spoken out against. What a shocking set of untruths. I am using Vista 64-bit at work for .Net development, and at home for media and general home computing. I have found it to be excellent, stable fast and compatible with just about everything I want to run (sadly my TV card is incompatible but that is Blackgold's fault).
DRWAM
on Oct 9, 2008
mdsharpe, you probably missed the post about 64 bit going mainstream, the first salvo. We mentioned that a great number of today's retail PC's are sold with Vista 64 bit installed. The last 3 laptops that I configured for friends was Vista 64, and the owners love them. I would love to see how it would run on my $400 laptop, just for giggles. As you all can tell, the darn thing is giving me plenty of them since I won't stop posting about it. My first laptop was a Dell Inspiron 7500 for about $3500. Seven years later I can guy a $400 laptop that puts it to shame. That's amazing, IMO.
johnbaxter
on Oct 9, 2008
Paul, seeing stuff like this out there must be really tiring. It seems to me that one thing that is going on is that Apple and the "iCabal" have little to do with Microsoft's Vista perception problem. (I see the Apple ads as entertainment. All they've convinced me of is that I'm a Hodgman fan and Justin Long is playing (not IS, IS PLAYING) a snotty little brat.) The problem is Windows users, some of the mainline press (mainline press = New York Times, Wall Street Journal (at least for a while longer until it's fully "Murdockized"), etc), semi-mainlne press (CNet and friends may be there, although CBS isn't doing CNet any good at all) and bloggers. Many of the above are sure that Vista is horrible. And they reinforce each other. Many long-time Windows users (who resisted XP pretty strongly too) are in the "Ugh! Vista's different. I want my XP" category. So are many who started with XP. To make matters worse, the out-of-box experience for these users runs directly into UAC, since they insist on installing most of their old favorites. I've long felt that Microsoft missed a UAC mode: "Look, I'm going to be installing stuff today. Give me a break for n hours or until I tell you I'm done." So by the end of the install orgy, they hate UAC (which they won't see often again) and by extension hate Vista. And tell everyone they know, in whatever platform they have (from Back Fence to CNet or Wall Street Journal). On top of that, there were real problems for the first few months. Vista was not only very late; it was also somewhat early. By contrast, Mac OS X was not only very late, it was also much more early than Vista was (I had to boot into Mac OS 9 to run useful backups of 10.0 and 10.1, and making a dialup connection sooner or later led to a 10.0 kernel panic (think "blue screen of death")). So what do I tell people now? Buy a Mac if you think you'll be happier with it than with Windows (one guy who did that proceeded to destroy his MacBook screen within months by closing the lid onto a pencil--one can do that with Vista or XP, too). Or, if you prefer Windows, by all means forget about XP and go with Vista. The only exception there is folks who need XP for business reasons (which at least until recently around here meant anyone in real estate, since the local systems here require or required IE6 and nothing else). Recently, I"ve added "and don't be afraid of 64-bit".
drylight
on Oct 9, 2008
"I've long suspected that Paul was unhappy (and perhaps even envious) that he's a B-list tech writer (not a bad thing), instead of being an A-lister like Mossberg, Pogue, etc..." One needs more original content, not just re-blogging 90% of someone else's work and then adding a snide Microsoft fanboy remark here or there.
reunson
on Oct 9, 2008
"First up is the Wall Street Journal’s Walter Mossberg, a man who suggests switching to Mac OS X as a cure-all for whatever issue you may be having with Windows at the time. In today’s Mossberg’s Mailbox, Walt offers up some stunningly bad advice." Where exactly in that stunningly bad advise did Walt even mention switching to Mac OS X? So why was it necessary for you start your article off that way? You were obviously trying to present him as a member of the so called "iCabal" and Apple shill with limited knowledge of Windows. In the same way Paul, many readers and Mac related sites accuse of being nothing but a Microsoft shill. You would have to admit yourself, that your knowledge of Mac OS X is very limited compared to your extensive knowledge of Windows. There have been several occasions when you have got things wrong about Mac OS X and have been corrected by readers and other blog writers.
emuelle1
on Oct 10, 2008
I briefly subscribed to Windows Secrets' newsletter, until I realized it should have been titled "How to live in the past by extending Windows XP forever". In the time I subscribed, I don't think they revealed a single "secret" about Windows. All they did was complain about Vista and praise XP.
Delmont
on Oct 10, 2008
Reunson: Oh please. Time for you go back to your fanatical Mac websites. John Baxter: Good comment.
Waethorn
on Oct 10, 2008
@baxter: "make matters worse, the out-of-box experience for these users runs directly into UAC, since they insist on installing most of their old favorites." NO applications should be installed under user credentials. If you want to dispute that, then I'll conclude that you SUCK at IT. "I've long felt that Microsoft missed a UAC mode: "Look, I'm going to be installing stuff today. Give me a break for n hours or until I tell you I'm done."" I'll conclude that you don't have a clue about Vista either, since you CAN turn it off (assuming you're an administrator), and exactly for the reason you mention. "Where exactly in that stunningly bad advise did Walt even mention switching to Mac OS X?" Paul didn't say it was in the same comment, but Wally has said that before. That's his general argument about how to deal with problems on Windows, and it's marketing gold for Apple. Why hire Justin Long, when they can get some old geezer to do the ads?
Master3
on Oct 10, 2008
"I've long suspected that Paul was unhappy (and perhaps even envious) that he's a B-list tech writer (not a bad thing), instead of being an A-lister like Mossberg, Pogue, etc... Now I'm sure. His diatribes over the last couple of days lay open his insecurity for all to see. " What ever, Ocean and Drylight. Neither of you are required to be here or to read anything Paul writes. If you find it so tedious to hear what he has to say, then find the door and move out of it. After that snarky personal comment, I would have banned both of your IP addresses. Both of you seem to need this site more than it needs you.
shark47
on Oct 10, 2008
" you might need more than 4 GB. Especially if you're running iTunes" :-) Definitely. If you just need a music player, I think Zune software is better for Windows users. For iTunes to perform reasonably on Windows, you might need this: http://gizmodo.com/5050527/crays-first-windows+based-supercomputer-puts-...
shark47
on Oct 10, 2008
"Why hire Justin Long, when they can get some old geezer to do the ads?" Because, even though Goatberg doesn't realize it, he doesn't fit Apple's image of a perfect Mac user - the Justin Long type. Goatberg is too old, too bald, and too geeky - the typical PC user according to Jobs.
shark47
on Oct 10, 2008
"There have been several occasions when you have got things wrong about Mac OS X and have been corrected by readers and other blog writers." Paul has never claimed to be a Mac guru and doesn't offer advice to Mac users. There's the difference for you. Pogue and Goatberg claim to be PC gurus.
bettieblu
on Oct 10, 2008
@Johnbaxter, Waethorn is right. UAC is good and LONG overdue for Windows. Its good because of what it does. Windows XP is great OS still but its one glaring weakness is that 98% of users run in full admin mode. Getting XP to work in a limited user mode is difficult in that some apps, including MS apps cant do it. So when MS added UAC to Vista it was good, great even. It forced people to run in limited user mode, which by its self blocks so much malware that kills XP. Its holds the hand of stupid users. That all said the implementation of UAC is Fraking horrible. If you try to change the date and time in Vista, it pops up. Also that whole fade screen is just lame. In OS X and say Ubuntu you get about 1/10th of the pop up's asking for elevated privileges. Also those popups in OS X and Ubuntu always ask for a password, something UAC should do, and is on for limited users and can be turned on for Admins in Vista. UAC is good, if you turn it off you are a fool. MS just needs to make it better.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Oct 10, 2008
bettieblu If you don't get a security confirmation prompt in ANY operating system when you try to change the date/time in "user" mode, you've got a BIG security problem. And that whole "fade screen" you think is "lame" is the system going into a highly secured mode that prevents malware from spoofing or attacking the UAC system. Also VERY important for security.

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