iPhone loses US market share in Q1 2008 ... the real story

According to IDC, the Apple iPhone actually lost ground in the first quarter of 2008 in the US:

Research in Motion's BlackBerry increased its share of the U.S. smartphone market in the first quarter while Apple's iPhone lost ground, according to a report from IDC.

According to the report RIM's share of the U.S. market for advanced phones with computer like features such as e-mail rose to 44.5 percent in the first quarter from 35.1 percent in the fourth quarter while iPhone's share fell to 19.2 percent from 26.7 percent in the fourth quarter.

This is notable for a number of reasons, none of which I feel have been accurately communicated online yet. These are:

  1. Apple's market share in rich countries like the US are usually touted by the iCabal because it is so much higher there than in developing countries. In this case, Apple's best market actually saw a significant quarter-over-quarter decline. That doesn't happen very often with Apple successful products, the iPod and Mac.
  2. That said, the iCabal, is of course, trying to defend this drop by noting that Apple is about to release a brand new iPhone, after all. So customers are clearly waiting for the new version. That's just spin. It's almost June as this IDC report appears, and just 10 days before the expected introduction of a 2nd generation iPhone. Q1 2008 covers January through March, not January through May, so the quarter in question ended almost two full months ago. There is no way that actual customers (i.e. non-iCabal, non-tech enthusiasts) put off iPhone purchases between January and March because of a possible new hardware revision. That's just fanciful, and it assumes that the wider cell phone buying world (i.e. "the world") is as tuned into Apple's release schedules as is the iCabal. They're not.
  3. While Apple has attempted to keep sales of the iPhone at least somewhat steady by regularly introducing the device in new markets around the world, this strategy hasn't garnered much success from a units sold perspective. In 2008, iPhone sales are flat (actually, down from 2007) and the device isn't selling well in many markets, especially in Europe. When you combine that with slowing sales in the US (i.e. the one market the iCabal always points to), there's a bad trend here.

I expect that Apple will see a nice and expected bump when it introduces its 3G-capable iPhone in June (or whenever it does). But 3G isn't really enough to keep momentum going. After that, Apple will have a few major new markets to enter (China and Japan? I can't remember) and then... what?

Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch over supposed Apple bashing, I'm actually concerned about this. The iPhone is, I believe, a revolutionary device and it deserves to be hugely successful. Once you get past 3G and its lack of availability in key markets, you can tackle the only meaningful stumbling block to iPhone adoption: It's far too expensive. There are two things Apple can do here, and both will have sustainable, real world effects on unit sales: First, the company needs to dramatically lower the price, even to the point where they're taking a serious loss on each one sold. I'm talking by at least 50 percent. (Not to parrot an old SNL skit, but they can make it up in volume: At this phase, Apple simply needs to establish the iPhone as a major, credible mobile platform that has long-term legs.) Second, Apple and its wireless carriers need to lower the monthly cost of their wireless plans and up the capabilities/features to bring this product more in line with the other devices offered by the same carriers. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but AT&T offers much friendlier data plans (not to mention all-you-can eat data plans for international travelers) on non-Apple devices than they do on the iPhone. This needs to be rectified.

Apple CEO Steve Jobs said that he would sell 10 million iPhones in 2008 (not, as so many have mistakenly reported, that he would sell 10 million iPhones through 2008, which includes all 2007 sales as well). So far, they sold 1.7 million units in Q1 2008, and it's hard to imagine sales were much better in Q2, given that by that time, potential customers really were more attuned to a new model coming soon. To get to 10 million, the company can't just come out with an evolutionary hardware update. It must lower the cost of acquiring and using an iPhone, and make the decision a no-brainer.And it must do so before Android hits and before Microsoft finally gets its Windows Mobile act together. It's simple math. (So simple even I can do it.)

I want Apple to make this happen. The iPhone is the kind of device that excites consumers and competitors alike. But it needs to be more than an inspiration. It needs to be hugely successful.

Discuss this Article 52

Auras
on May 31, 2008
The US market share will drop even more because now they'll be releasing the iPhone and in european markets. Last year the US market share was so great because of europeans and asians importing iPhones and jailbreaking them.
pthurrott
on May 31, 2008
Auras: Actually, that's an interesting and probably accurate point.
BrightrevCarl
on May 31, 2008
A couple things: First, the iPhone is a CONSUMER device. The Q4 Christmas season is the biggest consumer electronics quarter by far. Almost every consumer electronics device does worse in Q1 than in Q4 of the previous year. The BlackBerry is primarily a BUSINESS device. The business market is much, much less affected by the holiday season. The iPhone's market share numbers are pretty easy to explain, Lots of people wanted an iPhone and not a BlackBerry for Christmas. Businesses bought BlackBerries the entire time. @Auras You're assuming no new demand for the iPhone will be created in the US. With Exchange ActiveSync, the 3G iPhone is going to be a consumer AND a business device - opening a very large and completely new market. In addition, there have also been rumors that AT&T will subsidize the new device, which would substantially increase demand. There is absolutely ZERO chance the iPhone's US or world wide market share after June is less than its market share in Q1. Although I don't agree that a consumer device losing market share after the Christmas season is a concern, I do agree that lowering the price would substantially increase demand. One last point - what makes people think Android will be any better than Windows Mobile or BlackBerry? Google has no history of developing this type of software and the product isn't even out the door yet. Right now, the thing is vaporware. Seeing is believing.
daProject
on May 31, 2008
You can't really say that sales are down on 2007, given that in 2007 you had the huge launch and then the holiday quarter. Whereas Q1 in any year for a consumer product is typically slow. AS for the 10m goal, i'd be extremely surprised if they fail to sell that in 2008. You have to factor in the following 1. People like myself, who will upgrade to v2 next month 2. Those reliant on Exchange can now buy into the product 3. Those wanting 3G and a better camera, such as the EU market should be served with this in v2 4. Operators most likely will be subsidising the price in some markets this time (already happening in the UK and they sold out instantly) 5. Those not wanting to move because of specific software will now be able to with the AppStore plugging many gaps 6. The 30 new countries it will be sold in, representing around 2bn people
Cfischer83
on May 31, 2008
I think you're right on one point, Paul. The thing is just too danged expensive. What they need to do is take your advice (drop price by at least 50%) and perhaps bring back the 4GB iPhone. If they did that then you they could be selling 4GB iPhones for $100 and competing with the typical cell phone market as well. Think about it. How many cell phones, let alone smart phones, have 4GB? On most you have to get an SD card and you're still not getting 4GB worth unless you spend a ton. If they did this AND supported more than just AT&T they could totally have the monopoly on the cell phone market. My guess is they'll blow it like they did in the 80's/90's with the PC market.
johnpapola
on May 31, 2008
Good post, Paul... except for the childish and incessant "iCabal" jabber. Those kind of "jokes" play fine once in an article... not five times. Plus, I don't think the Apple-friendly tech writers quite fit the definition of cabal anyway. All that said, I think you're right about the price. Apple can only buck people's expectations regarding price so much. Phones get subsidized to drive service contracts. It's a reality. This means expensive phones like the iPhone or a high end blackberry end up being cheap. At the end of the day, many people aren't going to get over the price hurdle for the superior product that is the iphone. But I think you're missing the biggest point: Smart phones are a niche that's business-centric. It's likely that in its current iteration, the iPhone is one it's way to saturating the relatively small market for AT&T consumer subscribers interested in a smart phone. That crowd just isn't that big. Now, when the device comes down below $200, I agree that it opens up. As it stands now, the big consumer drive for the iphone is that it combines an iPod with their phone. That's a pretty big deal, but again, the price isn't right. But the biggest market for smart phones is the business market. Apple doesn't even have corporate discounts for crying out loud! And with the US basically being single carrier and oriented to the consumer... I think they've hit a bit of a ceiling. 3G isn't the story with iPhone 2.0.... it's exchange and third party apps. That will open the business smart phone market and if Apple's sales team is able to work with companies... it'll be huge. AT&T-only will still remain a big barrier to massive sales since it limits their US market to less than a third of the total market. But it will be enough for them to keep things moving. Don't forget that on the mobile platform front, the iPod Touch is just as important to establishing CocoaTouch as a major mobile development platform, and the Touch doesn't suffer from any of these problems. This is mainly an expectations problem. Even so, I expect them to make that 10 million mark.
DRWAM
on May 31, 2008
I disagree that 3G won't keep momentum going. I think that 3G was the problem with big sales outside the US [as well as price/plans]. But I think that a lot more will buy when 3G [with GPS] arrives. It's a phone and an iPod, not really a smart phone. More consumers can probably use those two features a lot more than Exchange email on the road and other smart phone features. But I guess we will see in a few months. [I don't think that we should focus on initial sales at the debut of 3G as they will surely be big. It the ability to sustain it, as you all know] I was playing with a Blackberry Curve for a while and just did not like it. Viewing docs and spreadsheets was a pain and was much better with Documents to Go. Although they will make it for the Blackberry in June, the screen is pretty small. However, you can bet that I will demo it before upgrading my Treo 650.
joe-dokes
on May 31, 2008
First and foremost Apple rarely drops prices. Apple will be unwilling to cannibalize sales of the iPod touch in order to increase sales of the iPhone. What you Windows Jockey's don't and have never understood is that VALUE is determined by things that go far beyond price. 1. Reintroducing a 4Gb model would only drop the price by about 20 Bucks. Hardly worth the trouble of adding another SKU. Prices for flash memory are dropping, reintroducing this model is just not smart. 2. A key problem with the iPhone is a lack of storage. They are currently limited to 16 Gb. In my view for them to truly replace the classic iPod they need at least 32 Gb. Thus, when Apple increases the iPhone to 32 Gb the will be increasing the market. 3. What is far more likely to happen is that Apple will introduce a 3G phone that has 32 Gb for the same price as the Current 16 Gb. The 16Gb will get a price drop and the 8 Gb. will be discontinued. With the introduction of the 3G iPhone there will be only two things for people to bitch about: 1) the Price (they could give it away and some would still complain) and 2) the lack of a physical keyboard. Every other complaint will have been addressed. Apple has fixed the lack of 3G, and the lack of an SDK. Since many iPhones are being sold but not attached to ATT it is more important than ever for Apple to make money on every phone as it goes out the door. Finally I think daProject is correct. Apple is in a good position to sell 10M units this year. Q1 they sold 1.8, I think it is safe to assume that the introduction of a 3G phone and new markets will increase sales as well. Once you factor in the holiday season, I think 10 M. is easily achievable. Finally Cfischer83-- Apple did make a number of mistakes in the 80s and had very poor leadership in the 90s that has taken the better part of a decade to undo. That being said, unlike a very large number of companies Apple has not only survived but continued to grow. Think about it, Commodore-- great technology, great pricing poor leadership meant that it eventually went tits up. IBM-- Finally left the PC business because they couldn't make any money Atari-- Who? They were huge and had some pretty good tech, poor decisions lead to their demise Osborn-- Neat machine but failed to continue upon initial successes A whole host of clone makers-- virtually all are gone. Dell's value is in the toilet In short it is easy to look at Apple with 3-6% market share and think of what might have been, but considering how many other companies are no longer around the fact that Apple now has thriving community and a market cap as great as IBM is truly amazing. Regards Joe Dokes
heran
on May 31, 2008
"Operators most likely will be subsidising the price in some markets this time (already happening in the UK and they sold out instantly)" ======== In UK, a 8GB iPhone is £169 and a 8GB ipod Touch is £199. And you can unlock this phone if you don't want the monthly cost. Still I don't see many people using iphone in UK, however, as Auras said, many asians were "importing iPhones".
Yawn!
on May 31, 2008
>>Apple's market share in rich countries like the US are usually touted by the iCabal because it is so much higher there than in developing countries. In this case, Apple's best market actually saw a significant quarter-over-quarter decline. That doesn't happen very often with Apple successful products, the iPod and Mac. Really? Paul I know numbers are not your thing so I am providing a link that includes some pretty charts. These charts and numbers disprove this statement. This seems to be an established pattern with the iPod. iPod sold per quarter: 12/31/2001 125,000 03/31/2002 57,000 06/30/2002 54,000 09/30/2002 145,000 12/30/2002 219,000 03/30/2003 80,000 ... http://www.systemshootouts.org/ipod_sales.html
DRWAM
on May 31, 2008
Yawn, that's enlightening work/charts. It's a seasonal decline as it has been in the past, and has affected many other business in the same way, even mine. Our volume is back up again, this new quarter.
Yawn!
on May 31, 2008
@DRWAM, thank you but the numbers and charts are not my work. They are based on filings of 10q's and 10k's.. I assume that your use of the caduceus and nickname provides you with the importance of understanding baselines and reference ranges and how they determine how to react and treat based on their movement. I have no problem with Paul expressing his doubt that Apple will sell 10 Million iPhones in 2008. The problem I have here is that Paul (journalist/blogger) states: "This is notable for a number of reasons, none of which I feel have been accurately communicated online yet. These are:" As you astute observation picked up from the data presented was Paul calling for accurate communication and then he provides inaccurate information. As an investor in MSFT, AAPL and a few others, I do my own DD. Regardless, if Paul feels I am an "iCabal" or if I feel he is a "Wintard" has no bearing on my wallet. What does affect my wallet is when Paul states "accurately communicated" when in fact it is not. Like it or not Paul is regarded as an expert/analyst in this industry.
Cfischer83
on May 31, 2008
Joe: I'm not debating Apple making it this far, what I'm saying is that they could be in Microsoft's position and have complete control over the PC market... they don't, they blew it. If they're not careful, they could do it again. They certainly have the most superior phone IMO (or at least interface/UX), so if they did it right they could get the majority of the market.
cesjr
on Jun 1, 2008
Quarter to quarter comparisons are for dunderheads. SEASONALITY is a factor, especially for a consumer device
DRWAM
on Jun 1, 2008
The problem that I have believing in 10 MIL is that if another 1.7 MIL was sold 2nd Q, that's 3.4 MIL for half a year and sales must increase by 100% to get to 10 MIL in 2008, AN easy 7 or 8 MIL can happen, and the rest need to be Christmas sales, which is possible given seasonal iPod sales figures. But do those numbers agree with iPhone sales too? Time will tell as the data is not all in.
subzerohitman721
on Jun 1, 2008
I think the drop in the iPhone has more to do with the attitude and perceptions given off by Apple. First, it was introduced at the insane price point of $599 dollars. For some people, thats a car payment or an apartment rent price. A phone costing the same amount as a Playstation 3, which didn't sell at that price point either. Second, you bundle to one carrier for 5 years not even allowing any fair competition of the same device. Even Democrat members of Congress weighed in on that. Third, you brick all the phone that had any foreign content on it. Only bowing to public pressure to release an SDK and refund credit for the insane expense. Fourth, there are assertions by LG that the iPhone is a stolen design and not an original Apple invention. There's a pattern here of arrogance that comes from Apple that I believe is turning people away. Fifth, the 2.5 G was a fatal mistake. Many of the networks were moving to 3G, with the rest of the world already there. I think thats why many foreigners haven't mass adopted the iPhone. No matter how coveted or desired any technology is, the companies behind it can make or break it. Instead of looking to the longterm, Apple chose the quick cash in with the 2.5 G. Instead of looking out for consumers, they put the price point beyond middle class working budgets. Instead of AT&T making a special package that benefitted the working class, the phone and data plans were outrageous. God help the fool who took it overseas with an regular AT&T contract. Its this pattern of arrogance, lack of leadership, and ignorance that surrounds Apple. Remember the 80's when Apple was on top? It took one company that brought them crashing down and almost out of business. Jobs ends up being the victim of his own success and not making logical decisions. If he's not careful, just like the ending of Pirates of Silicon Valley, Jobs might need to be fired and bailed out again.
cesjr
on Jun 1, 2008
"It needs to be hugely successful." Umm, it is already hugely successful as a 1.0 product from a company that's never made a phone before, that's competing against well entrenched competitors.
DRWAM
on Jun 1, 2008
Sub, most consumers could care less about politics and more about price. They didn't care about the price drop, but only bought more iPhones after the dropin price. Those who had them already were the complainers as well as anti-Apple people who would not purchase on anyway. Verizon had a chance, but declined as they were just as greedy. This is just business. Most of those that bought the iPhone did not mind 2.5G as well. As far as bricking the phone, it was exclusive to ATT [in the US] as many phones are initially, and not one phone was permanently bricked. I am quite certain that if bricking was the intent, it would be permanent. The price drop needed to happen because sales had to increase and $599 is too much. SDK was planned at the start as well. I don't see this as much as a conspiracy as you do, but we can disagree.
DRWAM
on Jun 1, 2008
Whoops, I can agree that we both think Jobs is a bit arrogant, but what corporate head is not. Still, I would rather invite Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer to my barbeque. I think that Gates would be more fun and Ballmer definitely looks like a cold beer drinker, you know, a real man.
DRWAM
on Jun 1, 2008
Market share question: back in the late 80's, when Apple had a bigger market share, weren't the Apple computers really expensive, I mean relative to PC's as well? Were there more for enterprise/business or not? Some of you old farts ought to know this.
heran
on Jun 1, 2008
Umm, it is already hugely successful as a 1.0 product from a company that's never made a phone before, that's competing against well entrenched competitors. ====== So in this sense, the zune must be huglely successful as well, "as a 1.0 product from a company that's never made a" mp3 player, and "competing against well entrenched competitors".
lookmark
on Jun 1, 2008
Well, it's no surprise that a lot of people are holding off on iPhone purchases before the 3G model comes out. You'd have to be kinda clueless to buy iPhone right now - or even in the past month or two. I agree that Apple needs to take the iPhone from a much-discussed, very profitable, well-selling smartphone to a truly mainstream device. I suspect that 3G + third-party apps & games via iTunes + Exchange/enterprise support + GPS + a barrage of often non-carrier-exclusive deals around the world + something extra (improved camera? front camera for videoconferencing with other 3G iPhones? choice of case colors?) will do the trick.
cesjr
on Jun 1, 2008
"So in this sense, the zune must be huglely successful as well, "as a 1.0 product from a company that's never made a" mp3 player, and "competing against well entrenched competitors". Umm, no because the zune is those things PLUS it hasn't sold well. The iphone has sold millions. It's still number 2 in smartphone sales in the US.
jameskatt
on Jun 1, 2008
Uh... The iPhone is a spectacularly successful product already despite being 1.0 and lacking 3G. Look at how many are already in use in Russia and China despite lack of support or legitimate sales. Look at how it has changed the SmartPhone and Cell phone industry. Apple will never sell something at a loss. As a long-time stockholder, I can tell you that the mandate is to make the best products and make profit - irregardless of the share price. Apple does this extremely well. Marketshare is not as important as making a profit at Apple. With so many years of people making death predictions for Apple, the situation has changed. Apple's most important mandate is to survive. It does this by making the best products it can and making a profit on everything it sells. Apple makes more profit per employee and for its marketshare than Microsoft does. It is a great money making stock for its investors. It's stores make more money per square foot than any other store - including Tiffany's. If anything, it is the phone company that can sell the iPhone by subsidizing it. Thus, AT&T can subsidize the iPhone and reduce its price to $199. However, in subsidizing it, Apple still makes its full profit. Profit, profit, profit - ultimately that is the measure of a company. And Apple does it spectacularly well for a computer company/consumer electronics company. Additionally - the iPhone attracts people to Apple's world. Thus, purchasing an iPhone leads many to purchase Macintosh computers, iPods, iPhone and iPod Accessories, etc. etc. As a component of a marketting ecosystem, the iPhone also is very successful. The ecosystem creates a juggernaut for sales of Apple products. Again, the iPhone is very successful in adding to Apple's bottom line. Profit. i bought the iPhone and now have bought three more for others. I cannot think of any cellphone - after extensive comparisons - that is better at doing the whole widget thing than the iPhone. It is simply the best combined hand-held computer, cell-phone, iPod, Video Player, and soon to be games player - with all the other extras to boot. It can only get better once 2.0 comes out.
Snakedoctor1
on Jun 2, 2008
As many have stated the current iPhone is a consumer only device. Also as many have said consumer device sales go up during the holiday seasons, and drop off at the beginning of the year. I am pretty sure there were articles about Apple decreasing their orders for iPod flash memory because the expected a drop in the first quarter? I have zero doubt that sales will pickup big time once the Exchange/3G functionality. Just adding Exchange functionality would have done this as its a major reason the current iPhone is not a business phone. I know lots of companies that have flat out told users that the iPhone was not going to be supported by their IT teams until Exchange functionality was implemented into the device. I also know lots of people, my self included that are waiting for the Exchange/3G support. The 3G for me will be icing on the cake because its the Exchange functionality is more important to me. I have used expensive Windows Mobile phones that did have 3G for years now. I think the iPone sales are amazing when you think its only a consumer device. Imagine if Windows Mobile Phones did not have Exchange support or 3G, their sales might be as good as the Zune.
tayme
on Jun 2, 2008
@cesjr - "Umm, no because the zune is those things PLUS it hasn't sold well. The iphone has sold millions. It's still number 2 in smartphone sales in the US." iPhone loses ground in market share and Zune sales are flat, but read this: http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/05/09/ms.sells.2m.zunes Its funny how the story and comments are the opposite when it comes to MS...But, lets be fair...if the iPhone is successful and has sold "well" - then the Zune is and has as well. I could say the same thing as many of the posters in the above link do - "I don't know anybody with an iPhone and have never seen anyone using one on the street" Of course, if you watch any TV, it appears that every character in every show is using one...but, other than that...I have NEVER seen one in the wild. Does that make it a failure - heck no...But, my family has 3 Zunes and 2 iPods, and I have seen quite a few people using both in the wild...what does that say? Hard to say - perception means a lot, though. Apple is a media darling and MS is seen as an evil corporate monster. Neither company is perfect, and they both produce a lot of cool stuff. --tayme
lotsamystuff
on Jun 2, 2008
"Still, I would rather invite Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer to my barbeque." Tie down your lawn chairs. "Ballmer definitely looks like a cold beer drinker, you know, a real man." Pffft. Yeah, right. Cold beer loses its flavor (which is why all beer judging is done with the brew served at room temperature). Real men drink Guinness at around 50-55 degrees. Serve a real German a cold beer and he'll smack you upside the head with his stein. NASCAR-loving-mouth-breathing-rednecks (and, apparently, cranky CEOs who like to go on monkey-dancing temper tantrums) drink cold beer with "Milwaukee" on the label.
Waethorn
on Jun 2, 2008
"Serve a real German a cold beer and he'll smack you upside the head with his stein." http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=pigt8rmdFn4&autoplay=1 that's all I gotta say 'bout that right thar!
DRWAM
on Jun 2, 2008
"NASCAR-loving-mouth-breathing-rednecks (and, apparently, cranky CEOs who like to go on monkey-dancing temper tantrums) drink cold beer with "Milwaukee" on the label." Yep, I oughta know! You got me pegged, right at the Monster Mile with my old #3 muscle T shirt, except, I can wear it like it's supposed to fit.
Waethorn
on Jun 2, 2008
cgahlsdorf
on Jun 2, 2008
I think that Apple needs to find a way out of their contract with AT&T and make it a truly unlocked device. I would have one if that were the case because I don't want to pay my early termination fee and I don't want to be stuck with AT&T for two years. If Apple were to do that they would probably get their magic mark of 10 million
DRWAM
on Jun 2, 2008
I have ATT for 2.5 yrs after switching from Verizon to get a RAZR for less $. I can't find any difference in service, but ATT customer service has been great. However, most of my friends have Verizon, and two bought a Blackberry last week.
johnpapola
on Jun 2, 2008
@jameskatt... right on, brother. Take note people, here's a user with a brain. I recommend that Paul and everyone else read this paper from the Wharton business school: http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/papers/1332.pdf Focusing on market share at a detriment to profit in a race to the bottom is a company-killing strategy and this report really is educational for everyone clamoring for this approach. Now, I'm not saying that Apple shouldn't do their best to get marketshare. iPhone as a platform needs a large enough userbase for third party ecosystem to kick in those self-reinforcing network effects. Old Apple made that mistake, keeping the price of the mac WAY too high. Steve Jobs pointed this out in "Triumph of the Nerds" back in 1992. Apple 2.0 with Steve at the helm has done a damn fine job of delivering marketshare (look at the ipod). It is a mistake to make comparisons between late-80's/90's Apple with the new Apple (basically NeXT). @losta.. Cool off with the insulting generalizations. And from what I've read, Ballmer is a really nice guy. His company can't execute it's way out of a paper bag, but he's supposed to be super smart and very personable.
DRWAM
on Jun 2, 2008
I saw a recent interview with Ballmer. He was a smart polite gentleman. When asked about the competition [Apple and at least one other, I thinkGoogle], he politely affirmed that he felt that they have a good [or great] product, then went on about his own. He never said a bad word about them. I think it was at CNET. In Hungary [I think] some butthead threw eggs at him [and missed] , and Ballmer calmly said to the crowd [after the fellow was removed] "well that was a polite discussion" and smiled. He made light of the entire incident. A real gentleman. As far as chairs, well we all have our moments. You should see me when I'm mad. I can throw a chair or a person through a wall... but won't...usually. Yep, I'm a redneck doctor that was thrown out of a few bars in his days. Peace.
cesjr
on Jun 2, 2008
tayme - the article you cite says that the Zune got 3-4 percent share in the U.S. (that's from 0 percent in nov. 2006 to May 2008 - or about 18 months to get that share) the iPhone went from zero share in Q1 07 to 26 percent share in Q4 07, then 19.2 percent share in Q108. Obviously a big difference in the success level.
johnpapola
on Jun 2, 2008
The Zune is a failure because it sundered the Windows Media effort, creating yet another proprietary silo of DRM and laying waste to any developer loyalty to interoperability. It's also a failure because it's not slowed the growth of the iPod, but instead taken it's sales from previous partners like Creative. I'm also unsure that the Zune unit is actually profitable, so if it's not, that would be failure #3. It's generally a technical success though as it appears to be a better player than the Creative players it's replacing. The iPhone is clearly a success because it's gone from zero to 20% marketshare in less than a year in a highly competitive market with entrenched players. All while being limited to a single carrier at a much higher price that it's subsidized competition. It's also clearly very profitable for Apple. It's also about to explode as a developer platform given the huge interest in the SDK and sold out WWDC as well as countless pronouncements of planned apps by great developers. Any talk that trying to paint the iphone as anything other than a success is just ludicrous. That's not to say that criticism and concern like Paul's post isn't valid. It's all about how you frame the debate. The question should be: how can Apple accelerate sales given it's single-carrier status and the price barrier?
tayme
on Jun 2, 2008
@jp - Don't get me wrong...I did not say that the iPhone wasn't successful///I just stated my opinion that in my eyes, the Zune is a success, because it is a better player-hardware wise and offers subscription based music downloads...and that I have seen more people on hte street using a Zune than an iPhone...oh, and a loss of ~25% of the marketshare that they once had is not a success in my book. ;-) --tayme
johnpapola
on Jun 2, 2008
@tayme, I'm not saying you are. But Paul's writing has been tinged with that idea with comments like "slow selling". As for the "loss of 25% not a success"... that's some very weird math. Their 26% share was in the holiday quarter and, as stated in other comments, it's very traditional for their sales to drop in the first quarter. That's consumer buying patterns. Now, corporate sales may be different, since operating budgets tend to dry up by 4th quarter and new annual budgets kick in in the new year. All that said, you do realize that these marketshare numbers are strictly the share of the sales of new phones for that period, and not over userbase, right? Just asking, because I'd call 19% marketshare for a new entrant in this market very much a success, regardless of holiday quarter numbers. As for Zune, I'd argue that the word you're looking for is "accomplishment". It's a quality product, which is a solid accomplishment. But their goal of competing with the ipod and building a profitable business does not appear to be happening. So accomplishment, yes. Success... questionable.
subzerohitman721
on Jun 3, 2008
@DRWAM Although I respectfully disagree with your argument, I am glad we can disagree without being disagreeable. However, I do agree that Ballmer and Gates would be great at a BBQ. I would love to hear all the stories they have over their 30 years in the business and their personal stories. Peace.
tayme
on Jun 3, 2008
@jp - nothing wierd about the math... 26.7% - Q4 19.2% - Q1 7.5% Drop, which is actually 28.089%(hence, my use of ~25%) of the Q4 "share of sales". This tells me that some other phone or phones had to increase their sales by that much, right? Regardless, you are correct...I would consider the sales figures a success. Lets see if it sticks. Regarding the Zune...I don't remember MS predicting that it would overtake the iPod. So, they are number 2 in a market with a very dominant competitor...nothing wrong with that. Just like Apple's OS X being number 2 to a very dominant Windows. --tayme
DRWAM
on Jun 3, 2008
Subman, you're invited too! May the Force be with you.
johnpapola
on Jun 3, 2008
@tayme, By weird math, I simply meant an odd bit of math to be concerned about. A sequential drop from 4th to 1st quarter is to be expected for a consumer device. "So, they are number 2" Since when are they #2? Isn't sandisk? It's pretty amazing that the release of the flash zune had no impact on sales at all as well, given that the Nano is by far the biggest seller in the iPod line. I believe Zune sold 1 million in the first year with just the drive-based player and 1million in the second year with the new lineup. Am I missing something?
Joe08
on Jun 3, 2008
I'm no iPhone fan, but you can't take away the fact that it kick started the touch phone craze in the U.S.. You'll soon have full touch capable Winmo 7 and a full touch screen Blackberry coming to market,and while I don't think that Apple had everything to do with this, they no doubt helped most manufacturers move up their plans. I'm a Blackberry guy at heart and would only buy a touch screen phone from RIM, but I can thank Apple partially for that.
tayme
on Jun 3, 2008
@jp - "A sequential drop from 4th to 1st quarter is to be expected for a consumer device." You must have missed the part where I said "This tells me that some other phone or phones had to increase their sales by that much, right?" Somebody picked up that 28.089% of the share of sales and Apple lost it. I would think that would concern any company...but I could be wrong. As far as sales rankings of the Zune...I could say something like "blah, blah ranking in the 30-60GB blah, blah", but I am honest enough to say that the 2nd place ranking was a guess on my part. I don't know where Zune ranks...maybe you can point me to a site that would show me that??? --tayme
Yawn!
on Jun 3, 2008
@ Tayme, Not to be an ass. Your guess was fair and good but here is the link you requested: http://techdigest.tv/2008/05/much_like_john.html You might want to recheck your math on sales vs market share (i.e. sales in a quarter.) Just a comment on you comment, nothing else.
johnpapola
on Jun 3, 2008
@tayme, thanks for the fair discussion. As you can see, Sandisk is #2 and a distant #3. I think the fact that blackberry is a corporate device and iPhone is a consumer device makes the quarterly dynamics very different. iPhone is not yet a consideration in most corporations, so RIM's share gain in the first quarter isn't necessarily any sign of the iPhone losing steam. It's two separate markets in a sense. I believe the iPod has likely expanding the overall market for smartphones unlike any other device among consumers. The iPhone 2.0 with exchange and third party apps will really be the first sign of the device as an enterprise solution that can be taken seriously. Let's see where we're at a year from now. I expect it to be a striking gain in share. Palm will likely be all but killed and Win Mo will be utterly marginalized. This is a three-way race between Nokia, RIM and Apple until we see Android come to life in the market. Android is a wildcard for sure. No matter how you slice it, though, the iPhone has fundamentally changed the game for the better. The Zune can't claim the same. The Zune is a me-too effort, like much of Microsoft. As Paul and Mary Jo once again said in the latest podcast, Microsoft has some serious and unnecessary Apple envy. They should give up on being envious of innovators since they don't and be happy with their massive market and profit and focus on their core products.
DRWAM
on Jun 4, 2008
Yo anyone, when is the touch Blackberry getting to market?
tayme
on Jun 4, 2008
@DRWAM - according to this, in Q3...but that is all speculation. I don't think that RIM has announced anything official yet. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-9945398-37.html --tayme
tayme
on Jun 4, 2008
@Yawn! - thanks for the link. I stand corrected. But, I am not sure what you are questioning on the math...please explain. --tayme
DRWAM
on Jun 4, 2008
Thanks tayme. Doc

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