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Is the Windows Copy and Paste Feature Broken?

May 6, 2010 Paul Thurrott | Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows

This has the potential to be one of those "crazy guy" posts I'd probably have fun with if I saw it elsewhere. But after mentioning this issue in passing on the Windows Weekly podcast last week, I've gotten a flood of email from listeners who have experienced the same thing. And all I can conclude is that the "copy and paste" feature in Windows 7 (and almost certainly Windows Vista and XP) is broken. It just doesn't work right.

It's this simple. I make a selection in some application and then tap CTRL + C to copy some text into the keyboard. Then I tap CTRL + V to paste it into another application. Sometimes it works. Sometimes, the previous contents of the clipboard are pasted instead.

Now, upon reading this, you will likely fall into one of two camps:

1) You believe that I am simply mistyping and didn't actually hit CTRL + C properly sometimes. And sure, I'm getting old and whatnot. You never know.

2) Oh my. That happens to me all the time.

It's happened to me enough now that I'm reasonably sure that there is something wrong. The sheer number of times it has happened, coupled with the feedback I've gotten, has triggered this post.

On the other hand, I'm also quite taken with the concept that the shuffle feature used by iPods and other devices is inherently broken, where on different playback sessions, one group is overly represented. Apple even added a "shuffle more" feature to its devices to address this type of complaint.

So, there you go, my heart laid bare: I think copy and paste is broken. Prove me wrong. :)

Discuss this Article 49

gorath
on May 6, 2010

Hmm. Never had an issue wit it myself.

I've even used the paste function after a sleep/hibernate session, for example, to enter the same parcel tracking number into a courier's website, and never had a problem.

What DOES seem broken, is the paste feature in Linux. Most of the time, you can select text, and then simply middle click somewhere else to paste what you selected. This seems to be very hit and miss for me recently though.

spivonious
on May 6, 2010

I fall into group 2. It happens to me in XP sometimes too.

Heaphus
on May 6, 2010

I'm not a frequent "copy and paster", and I never use keyboard shortcuts, but even in my limited use, I have had this happen to me quite a few times. What usually happens to me is that I copy something then when I try to paste it, paste is grayed out. I have always chalked it up to user error. Hmm.

puzder
on May 6, 2010

I have encountered as far back as XP. irritating as hell. Whats more, trying to report the error is near impossible.

ChrisPrefect
on May 6, 2010

BROKEN!!

anonymuos
on May 6, 2010

High on booze? The focus must be there on the selection while you Ctrl+C it.

yoshipod
on May 6, 2010

"On the other hand, I'm also quite taken with the concept that the shuffle feature used by iPods and other devices is inherently broken, where on different playback sessions, one group is overly represented. Apple even added a "shuffle more" feature to its devices to address this type of complaint."

Its amazing that so many people don't understand how random numbers work. The "shuffle more" feature is actually less random then the shuffle feature. It seems that many people think patterns are random and random are patterns. With the shuffle feature, its very likely that you will hear one artist more than another, and that is due to being random and a small sample size.  Lets say you have 500 songs by 50 different artists.  If you played shuffle for 50 songs, and the selection was truly random, the odds of hearing 50 different artists is extremely small. In fact its more likely that you would hear back to back songs by the same artist than you would hearing 50 different artists.

For what its worth, I get the same C&P behavior on OS X from time to time as well.  I think I am in camp 1 when that happens.

clindhartsen
on May 6, 2010

Just to confirm, you aren't using a Wireless keyboard, are you? I've noticed commands can become problematic when a keyboard heads towards empty. I can make note that I have had Photoshop stop using the latest clipboard content after awhile, such as if I was using Print Screen a couple times, or copied from other files multiple times.

I wonder if this is a system issue, or something has changed and software didn't implement some sort of new command or something.

planetarian
on May 6, 2010

I think it's a matter of applications. Sometimes when managing multiple windows, I may think I've got a certain window/panel active when it really isn't, and the result is I try to copy text when the highlighted text I want isn't actually active, so it doesn't work.

Otherwise, no problems whatsoever.

LuxZg
on May 6, 2010

While at "broken" and "basic features", how about Windows 7 (64bit, enterprise/ultimate) and broken "SAVE AS" !! I've had it happening in beta, Rc, on two different computers, and now with enterprise version of final version, again on two computers. Completely different, completely autonomous computers (home & work).

I have a file, click "save as", select folder (let's say "Desktop" or "My documents") and click Save. And I get a warning that I don't have enough permissions to write in that folder. Sure enough, a 0-byte file is created in that folder. If I click save again, it asks if I want to overwrite, click yes, and it writes file just fine. No other tasks done in between those few seconds.. And sure enough, it happens in native apps (like IE or Notepad) but also in other Microsoft apps (Office 2007, Office 2010 beta, Office 2010 final), and 3rd party apps as well (take your pick, happened in all of them).

Now I'd like to hear how many people experienced THAT! And yes, reporting ANYTHING to Microsoft is like trying to borrow million $$ from a beggar .. Actually, I think bagger would give me 1.000.000$ before Microsoft allowing me to send a bug report on a final Windows OS :/

As for copy/paste - I always thought it's my error not pressing key enough.. can't be sure.. No way to be sure :)

dbf11
on May 6, 2010

Yep - agreed.  Sometimes I find myself hitting CTRL-C a several times per copy, just to be sure...

pthurrott
on May 6, 2010
So this is across multiple machines, desktops and laptops. None have wireless keyboards. I think a certain leeway could be given for user error, of course, and for a long time I dismissed this nagging doubt as what many of you have suspected--user error--but, no. It's not that. It happens too much, and it happens when I'm explicitly paying attention now. Devil's advocate: But then, I hear two Van Halen songs in a row--sometimes two versions of the same song in a row--in a playlist with 3419 items. Anything is possible. :) And don't get me started on "you don't know how random numbers work." Spare me, I know how random numbers work, and this discussion has been done to death. If "true random" means you could hear the same song 2x in a row, and "fake random" means make it what I think of as "reasonably random," then give me the latter. We're human beings, not robots. I don't want to hear the same song 2x in a row, period. This isn't about math, it's about common sense. And when I tap CTRL + C, dammit, I expect "copy" to occur. Period.
tdyer
on May 6, 2010

I get that all the time, mostly from chrome. I know there are  things that automagically insert crap into your selected text for attribution. I assumed it was errors with that.

Could be a rare condition, that doesn't let you update the clipboard, they would be heinously hard to reproduce.

Could just be some programs don't let you do copy paste. Some installers are like that.

rtkachuk@shaw.ca
on May 6, 2010

The only trouble I've ever had with copy and paste was between RDP sessions, and that was a while ago. I cut and paste dozens of times a day locally without a problem.

pthurrott
on May 6, 2010
BTW. This may be related: There is a general stupidity around how keyboard shortcuts work in Windows. Depending on the application, you could mistakenly tap, say, the ALT key, and bring the whole application to its knees. Nothing works. And unless you know you hit ALT, and can "undo" that with, maybe, ESC, you're kind of dead in the water. I see this in Word 2007/10 sometimes. If you tap ALT, it assumes you want a keyboard shortcut that used to be tied to a menu that no longer exists in those versions of the app. (You'll see little call-out balloon windows indicating which letters you can tap to achieve a shortcut.) But if you hit the wrong keys then (as in, keys that aren't attached to a shortcut), nothing happens. So maybe you intend to type, but it won't work. A better example, perhaps. I'm tying this very comment in a text entry box in Google Chrome. So I tap ALT and ... nothing. Nothing happens, there is no visual indication that anything changed, but typing stops. I can't keep typing until I "undo" that ALT tap. The window is still the current active window and ... nothing. You can type and type and type and it will never reverse itself. Until you undo it. Dumb. Not "broken." But dumb. And maybe related.
UnnDunn
on May 6, 2010

The Copy/Paste issue occurs when the thing you are trying to copy is not inside a standard Windows Forms text box. The CTRL+C and CTRL+V shortcuts are provided by Windows Forms input form controls automatically, but in other cases they must be engineered in by the developer. If the developer forgets to add the shortcuts, then they won't work.

subzerohitman721
on May 6, 2010

On occasion, I've had an issue with copy & paste. I'd say for every 20 times I do Control - C, once out of every 20 attempts, I'll have to repeat the command. So it might be a glitch. I've had this happen in Firefox & in Chrome. So maybe Microsoft, Mozilla, & Google should look into this, just to make sure there's nothing funky in the code.

emilioimparato
on May 6, 2010

Happens to me a lot too. Both the copy / paste and the not so random random playing. So badly that on my iPod Shuffle (he he) I have sometimes the feeling (probably wrong) that it plays 2 days in a row the same "random" sequence.

Ocean
on May 6, 2010

I use cut and copy and paste multiple times daily.

I've NEVER had a problem.

lethbridge1976
on May 6, 2010

I have experienced this, but it was something that I was able to solve very easily (for my situation).  Like a lot of people, I use a wireless keyboard, mine is bluetooth, so if I haven't used it for a few minutes, I have to wake it up, and sometimes pressing CTRL + C is what wakes up the keyboard, but it doesn't register the CTRL + C, so when I hit CTRL + V, the previous thing from the clipboard is what is pasted.

Waethorn
on May 6, 2010

Never had a problem, but then I rarely ever use Ctrl-X/Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V.

I'm one of the few old-school people left that still uses Ctrl-Ins/Shift-Del/Shift-Ins for cut/copy/paste respectively.

I find that there are times where applications just don't support the Ctrl-letter option.  Often I find that if there isn't a shortcut menu (that's the name for the right-click menu) available for an item, then Ctrl-letter doesn't work, but the other key combos still do.

jctierney
on May 6, 2010

This happens to me from time-to-time. Enough that it's made me wonder about copy & paste, though not enough for me to really look that into it. I would often use CTRL + C to copy and then use the CTRL + V to paste to find that nothing would happen. I’ve found that using menu commands would have the same affect at times. (i.e. I would copy text from IE8 and then try to paste it into Word and the paste button would be grayed out.) I have noticed that this issue was more prevalent with Word 2010 Beta, but now that I have the RTM, it doesn’t happen as often, at least with Office apps in general. (Not sure if they’re correlated or not.)

This has affected me on a few different computers and as such, different keyboards (both wired and wireless):

Lenovo ThinkPad T61

Logitec MX3000 Wireless Keyboard

Lenovo Wired Keyboard (One of their base desktop models)

A couple others that I could mention as well, but these are the ones I use most often. The wireless keyboard has had the issue even after fresh, brand new batteries were placed into it.

yoshipod
on May 6, 2010

"If "true random" means you could hear the same song 2x in a row, and "fake random" means make it what I think of as "reasonably random," then give me the latter. We're human beings, not robots. I don't want to hear the same song 2x in a row, period. This isn't about math, it's about common sense."

I can certainly understand that way of thinking, and I think that is why "Shuffle more" was created.  But "shuffle" is random. Well pseudo-random, but that's another issue altogether ;)  

I play World of Warcraft and a large portion of the game is based on RNG.  People complain all the time about things not being random, but they are. Just like in your Van Halen example.  

de Silentio
on May 6, 2010

It happens to me on the rare occassion that I use CTRL+C, but I usually use Shift+Del to copy and Shift+Insert to paste and it never happens when I do that. (I think that habit started back in the old QBasic days)

gorath
on May 6, 2010

"In fact its more likely that you would hear back to back songs by the same artist than you would hearing 50 different artists."

No, it isn't. If it's truly random, then the probability is the same.

mikerisner
on May 6, 2010

I finally feel like perhaps I'm not helplessly careening into senility. Others are living the Ctrl+C nightmare with me! Glad to hear I'm not the only one. Hopefully, Microsoft will look into it. Win7 SP1, anyone?

Also, concerning the MP3 player random feature ... I listened to a recent Zune Insider podcast in which an engineer openly admitted that shuffle is NOT random. Beleive me, I know. And while appreciated, Apple's 'Shuffle More' is laughable.

Thanks again, everyone!

aemarques
on May 6, 2010

Paul, yes, this has happen to me before. But every time it did, I realised that I did not a correct "Ctrl-C" - hence the fact that the previous data in the clipboard appeared.

This (for me, at least) is because a) I *thought* I did a Ctrl-C but in fact I did a Shift-C or whatever or; b) there was a wrong focus on what I wanted to copy (thought that the cursor was in the right place but it wasn't).

Anyway, when I saw your post I though it was about another thing: the fact that we should have, by now, a better clipboard mechanism that could be used to collect several pieces of data and not just the last one we copied... :-)

Dipsh t Admin
on May 6, 2010

I've had this problem in Firefox many times, and occasionally in RDP sessions, although RDP seems to work more consistently than Firefox does.  I'll go ahead and do CTRL-C again, and it works.

Outside of those two areas, it works consistently everywhere else.

mhill36
on May 6, 2010

I've had this happen on more than one occasion but I always thought that I was hitting the wrong keys on the keyboard.

scarper
on May 6, 2010

Happens all the time to me. I find myself hitting CTRL + C about 5 or 6 times out of habit now.

Waethorn
on May 6, 2010

"One thing that has been "broken" for years is copy/paste from remote desktop sessions."

It doesn't typically work for pasting into standard folders.  If you're using RDP to copy something from the remote window to your host computer, paste it onto the desktop.  That always works for me, regardless of policy settings.  Ditto for the reverse.

Check this page out for more info though:

blogs.technet.com/.../rdp-copy-and-paste-not-working.aspx

tayme
on May 6, 2010

4.5 0:13:20 0:13:20 0:41:20 1:22:40 2:54:40

4.6 0:13:03 0:13:03 0:40:26 1:20:52 2:50:52

4.7 0:12:46 0:12:46 0:39:34 1:19:09 2:47:14

4.8 0:12:30 0:12:30 0:38:45 1:17:30 2:43:45

4.9 0:12:15 0:12:15 0:37:58 1:15:55 2:40:24

5 0:12:00 0:12:00 0:37:12 1:14:24 2:37:12

5.1 0:11:46 0:11:46 0:36:28 1:12:56 2:34:07

5.2 0:11:32 0:11:32 0:35:46 1:11:32 2:31:09

5.3 0:11:19 0:11:19 0:35:06 1:10:11 2:28:18

5.4 0:11:07 0:11:07 0:34:27 1:08:53 2:25:33

5.5 0:10:55 0:10:55 0:33:49 1:07:38 2:22:55

Crap, it happened again! (I see it occasionally)

--tayme

jtdennis
on May 6, 2010

Happens to me all the time in Firefox. Right clicking and copying always works, but CTRL-C rarely does.

wvaneck
on May 6, 2010

I had this happen too and I noticed that the copy part works correctly if you use the context menu on the item/text you want to copy.

yoshipod
on May 6, 2010

"In fact its more likely that you would hear back to back songs by the same artist than you would hearing 50 different artists."

No, it isn't. If it's truly random, then the probability is the same."

No they are not the same, they are not even close.  This is exactly why people don't understand the math.

The chance of getting the same artist back to back is 2% for any given try.  There are 50 artists so you have a 1/50 chance of selecting the same artist you just heard. In a 50 song list, you have 49 chances to get back to back artists. Using binomial distribution, you have a 37% of getting exactly one case of back to back artists in that 50 song set, and a whopping 74% chance of getting at least one case of back to back artists.

Now consider the case where you get 50 different artists.  You have 98% chance of getting a new artist after the first song is played (49/50).  Once two songs are played you have a 96% chance of getting a new artist (48/50) for your next song. However, you need to multiple that by the 98% from the previous try, so your overall odds of having 3 songs in a row by different artists, is 94.08%. Continue that down to 50 songs and you actually have only  a 0.08% chance of getting 50 different artists in a row.

Thus you are 929 times more likely to get at least one occurrence of back to back artists in a 50 song playset than you are of getting 50 different artists.

This of course assumes that each artist has the exact same number of tracks and songs can be repeated.

derekpress
on May 6, 2010

I use keyboard shortcuts a lot and don't remember this ever being a problem. It sounds frustrating if it really is an issue though.

Info Dave
on May 6, 2010

I thought it was me. My backup has always been right clicking. I also use right click Open so I don't get multiple browser windows open.

puzder
on May 6, 2010

Paul

In my experience in some instances when I CTRL+C and try to paste with the right click context menu it fails.and vice versa.

wireless kb.

xpxp2009
on May 6, 2010

Why doesn't Windows "flash" the selection background (the traditional blue "highlight" that shows selection of an icon or text) when you copy something so that you you know it has copied? That would be an amazing UI and usability improvement for Windows.

chrisasnyder
on May 6, 2010

As a long time professional software developer the requirement is on the developer to specifically support the keyboard shortcuts in your application. This depends heavily on the library framework and what features you get for free. Cut & Paste is a shortcut that has many flavors. CTRL-C/V, or CTRL-INS, SHIFT-INS, Right click context menu, toolbar shortcut icons, or drop down menu. The software developer must explicitly choose to support each of these forms of the shortcut.

A lot will depend on the library framework the application is built as to how much you get for "free". For example, the .NET framework text boxes will usually support most of these features by default, but they can be overridden and disabled. Other platforms, like Java, Visual Basic flavors or the older MFC librareis, or many of the other libraries out there, may not support the feature at all. Lazy developers will simply use the controls with the default behavior which will not support the behavior Windows users expect.

That is why many installers don't work with keyboard shortcuts, they are mostly Java based and don't support the CTRL-V feature. However, they do support the mouse right click paste option. Try it next time the CTRL-C, CTRL-V doesn't work, you will find the right mouse click context menu will.

There are a lot of bad programmers out there. This just illustrates that example

sayguh
on May 6, 2010

I don't think it's broken.

A lot of things just aren't copy/pasteable but you don't realize it.   If you right-click you'll see that "Copy" is greyed out.

But CTRL-C will not give any error so you assume it copied when really it didn't...

That's what I think is happening...

war59312
on May 6, 2010

Indeed, happens to me pretty much every day.

rcw, I reported it back it pre Win95 days, during the limited beta. Was closed as "Works for Me".

Reported it a few other times on Microsoft Connect and again either "Works For Me" or "Not Reproducible".

So there, I tried. Tired of it!! How about you give it a shot.

mleonard@compun...
on May 6, 2010

It happens on my laptop all the time. I never have the problem on my desktop. I've always thought it was just the difference in keyboards and that my laptop keyboard wasn't as sensitive as my desktop keyboard or that I was just not pressing down hard enough.

Backup77
on May 6, 2010

Paul

Just wondering if you have experienced similar issues when copying pasting across a network?? I haven't had any problems myself but obviously people are having issues with this in various applications. Wireless keyboards possibly at fault but I stopped using wireless keyboard & mouse ages ago.

Mark KB
on May 6, 2010

I have to say, like one of the above posters, the few times this has happened to me, I noticed I had my finger on the key instead of . Otherwise, no.

It's quite a human thing really. Often we remember what we *intended* to do, rather than what we actually do, *especially* if your mind is not focusing on what you are doing (in this case, you're not really focusing on pressing the keys on your keyboard.) That's why when you lose your car keys, they're never in the place you thought you put them, no matter how sure you are that you put them there. :)

Of course, if you've been specifically watching the keyboard while you did the key combo, then I have no explanation. But the fact remains that I haven't observed it over the many computers I've used over the years.

Bodypaint
on May 6, 2010

The only time I've experienced this is when using Photoshop CS4 for a long time. It seems to work at first, but after working for a while, it won't store the latest copied object or item.

Another thing that annoys me about Win7 is how certain applications can change some of the display features that I've turned off. I'm not a fan of the animating windows when minimizing or maximizing, (too apple like) so I've turned off that feature in the visual effects tab, under performance options. For some reason, certain apps, Zune, Live Messenger as well as others turns it back on.

whiplash55
on May 6, 2010

Never happens to me nor anyone I support.

ropp29
on May 6, 2010

I've noticed this, albeit rarely. I'm not sure if it was my own error or not. It hasn't happened enough to really inconvenience me.

mongo45
on Jan 6, 2011
Running XP SP3, Office 2010. Interesting situation. I've attached 3 PDF documents and sent them to a customer. When the customer and any other user opens the documents - despite the file name - all have identical content. I checked my source documents and they are what they should be. Some how, when attaching multiple documents Outlook is using the same sort of copy/paste bug and pasting in the content - into 2 different files.

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