LOL! Apple demanded that Microsoft stop advertising PC price advantage over Macs

I'd like proof that this actually happened. Some high up guy at Microsoft saying Apple called him, doesn't necessarily make it so. Oh well, the flame war here is entertaining as always.

@sjaak327 I only said the word "Start" was no longer on the button, I called it an orb that is left. Here is a link to Microsoft's Vista Press Screenshots: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/presskits/windowsvista/default.mspx No "start" text anymore. I didn't say the start menu was gone yet, but I think it will eventually be gone and removing it and giving the functionality to Explorer solves some Windows usability problems.

@murdocdv, The point is that it is still there if the user chooses so, as the Windows Classic mode, still features a startmenu icon, with the actual word start. On server 2008, this is enabled by default, and only after you have installed some additional stuff and enabled the theme service, you can get it replaced by the orb.

"I like them do that, and then take those two versions on head to head, soon you realise that OSX falls way short. Compare Leopard with home premium, same functionality (alltough the front row in OSX falls way short as compared to media Center." There are features in each that the other does not have... kind of like the laptops. Yet Windows cost 2.48x as much. Is that not the point of the laptop hunter ads? Just say that these are similar yet one costs alot less?

"The point of the Start Menu task-based discussion that began was specifically referencing the word "Start" as the entry point to the menu being so easy to use. It isn't in Vista, isn't in 7. That's a fact." In Windows Vista, there's something called the "Welcome Center" which has links to starter applications, including, but not limited to, video tutorials on how to use Windows, computer basics, and a "What's New" for Windows Vista. XP didn't have that. That's a fact. "Go compare the retail costs of 10.5 and Vista Ultimate." Make sure you compare a copy of OS X to an upgrade copy of Visa, because you can't buy OS X as a full version without first buying a Mac, since all Mac's come with it. You can buy a PC without an OS though. "Some other reasons are, of course, some of the same work Microsoft has done" So how is it "safer" than Windows exactly? My question still stands. "authenticated access to install applications" I just want to make one thing perfect clear here: software should NEVER be allowed to be installed under "user" privileges. Period. Lets see a reason why: a user has access to files that are available to all user accounts with only read access. That user has internet access, and they download and install a program under their account and user space, and that program also gets access to those files. The contents of those files gets sent over the internet. How does an administrator control that? This is why Microsoft has certain rules about software installation on Windows. Software should only be installed in the Program Files folder because it has very strict user restrictions, and user data is kept within the user space. Point of interest: Google Chrome circumvents this.

"Sorry to present it this way, but please don't connect to the Internet on a Mac. You may not have any idea of what people even better trained and more skilled than I am can and are doing to any *nix based OS... and I'm pretty good and I do wear a white hat. You want to be safe? Run Windows Vista or 7 and IE 8 in its default protected mode as a standard user." Sounds like a plan, right up to the point where you compare ACTUAL attacks on PC's vs Mac's. At that point it unravels pretty quick. You know like saying there WMD's in Iraq.

"Make sure you compare a copy of OS X to an upgrade copy of Visa, because you can't buy OS X as a full version without first buying a Mac, since all Mac's come with it. You can buy a PC without an OS though." All retail versions of Mac OS X 10.5 are full versions. The only upgrade version so far was 10.1 and that was free if you owned 10.0. The laptop hunter ads don't do a real comparison of value. They just show some people going into a store looking at machines and saying the Macs really nice, but are too expensive. This is no different than someone going in and comparing retail versions of OS X and Windows. Windows is more expensive. That is the product that Microsoft sells, not the laptops.

yoshipod! This is not the point of Waethorn He mean that If you cannot buy MacOS X if you don't have a Mac (Wich came with a version of MacOS X) the low price of the MacOS X Box should be compare with an upgrade of Windows because we can only compare oranges with oranges...

I am calling shenanigans! No lawyer/lawfirm calls a COO to tell him to pull an ad or report any falsehood!

JBCollie, Unix and Linux is not just insecure, it is really really really old technologies and nobody should base their new technologies on this...

"What laptops does Microsoft make again? We know Apple makes a Macbook Pro and we know how much it cost today." Apple is attacking the value proposition of the PC market with attacks put squarely on Windows, and you don't expect them to retaliate? "I would love to see a comparison of exact hardware if its possible. The comparison of course would not include any hardware from Microsoft." None of them include hardware from Microsoft actually, and the actual models are on the Laptop Hunters website. "All retail versions of Mac OS X 10.5 are full versions. The only upgrade version so far was 10.1 and that was free if you owned 10.0." Sorry, but that's just wrong. You can't install a copy of Mac OS X on a Mac system without a present license because there is no such thing. All Mac systems ship with a full OS X license, hence the boxed software is an upgrade.

"What no one mentions, and I still dont know why is...... What laptops does Microsoft make again? We know Apple makes a Macbook Pro and we know how much it cost today. I would love to see a comparison of exact hardware if its possible. The comparison of course would not include any hardware from Microsoft." Exactly! The COO of Microsoft is "turning cartwheels" because of a so-called advertising victory concerning a product that Microsoft DOES NOT MAKE. Laser-like product focus of this sort is what makes for certain success.....or maybe not. Equally funny, is the fact that Microsoft, which outsells Apple 30:1 in desktop OS software, wants to trumpet this as a David vs. Goliath victory. Huh? From Turner's reaction, and the smug comments here, you would think the numbers were the other way around. I thought Apple was the company that Microsoft "doesn't spend much time thinking about"? Why so nervous, fellows?

Damn it! Just buy what you want to and use it. This is retarded.

"There are features in each that the other does not have... kind of like the laptops. Yet Windows cost 2.48x as much." No it doesn't it;s a few bucks more, you are comparing OSX to the full windows version, and no way you can hold up that they are comparable. They are simply not comparable. So OSX should rightly be compared with Home premium, then the 2.48 times as much becomes a few bucks. But since the prices of the Apple hardware are seriously more expensive, there is really no reason for this discussion. I mean, even if you still insist on comparing OSX against the most expensive Vista or Win7 sku, the total cost of ownership for your mac is much much higher. In the corporate world, the cost of maintaining and integrating a Mac machine into the corporate networking envirorment is twice as high (rough estimation), pricesly the reason why Apple's marketshare in the corporate world is next to nothing. OS Deployment features in OSX, management features (group policy on Windows) are not existing, or so half baked, no one can effectively use it.

"I dont really care what kind of "matter" it is, the FACTS for me and many others would be ACTUAL attacks. Windows is ACTUALLY attacked millions of times a day." Yes correct, of course maintaining that OSX isn't is simply lying trough your theeth. Furthermore, the vast vast majority of problems in Windows occur on XP, which is 8 years old. If you compare Leopard with Vista, then it becomes apparent which is the safer OS. Look at the number of security threads that are published for Leopard as opposed to Vista. Take into account that Apple is slow and inaccurate at fixing these threads, and the difference becomes even more striking.

@Yoshipod: "It does not matter if you were running Mac OS 9, Mac OS X 10.0, 10.3, or have an blank hard drive in the machine with no OS installed at all. No license codes to enter. All you need is the supported hardware." Really? I thought that you had to pay full price for Snow Leapord if you had a Mac version prior to Leopard. How would they know what version you had if you have a blank hard drive?

"No it doesn't it;s a few bucks more, you are comparing OSX to the full windows version, and no way you can hold up that they are comparable. They are simply not comparable. So OSX should rightly be compared with Home premium, then the 2.48 times as much becomes a few bucks. But since the prices of the Apple hardware are seriously more expensive, there is really no reason for this discussion. I mean, even if you still insist on comparing OSX against the most expensive Vista or Win7 sku, the total cost of ownership for your mac is much much higher. In the corporate world, the cost of maintaining and integrating a Mac machine into the corporate networking envirorment is twice as high (rough estimation), pricesly the reason why Apple's marketshare in the corporate world is next to nothing. OS Deployment features in OSX, management features (group policy on Windows) are not existing, or so half baked, no one can effectively use it". I'm sorry but you can't have it both ways. If you are going to compare a Macbook Pro to a $699 PC laptop, then I can compare the retail prices of each OS. Even if you compare against home premium its still half the cost. Now turn that same deductive reasoning on the laptop hunter ads, and the statement from the COO of Microsoft. A 5.5lb., 1" thick laptop can not be compared against a 7.0lb 1.5" thick machine. Go compare the costs of the high end PC laptops against the Mac Book Pro. Then you find the prices are much more similar. The Macbook Pros are much nicer than any laptop I have seen. Made from Aluminum, not plastic. They feel strong. Try putting pressure on the body. It does not bend like the cheap plastic PC laptops. Once you have had someone trip out the power cord on a magsafe you will understand how valuable that feature is. People get laptops because they are portable. No other machine on the market has the size, weight, strength, performance and feel of Macbook pro. There are plenty of cheap PCs there are no cheap Macs. Just ones that are a good VALUE. I have no idea where you get your information, but the TCO of a Mac is much less than that of a PC. They may cost a little more upfront, but the support costs are far less. Find me a study, not funded by Microsoft, that shows the TCO of a Mac is more than a PC. They cost less. Just google "TCO mac vs windows", all show the Mac as lower TCO. Maybe your company is different but study after study shows they just cost less.

Even more amazing is how the people posting on Paul's board seem to be getting more and more juvenile & less and less "IT Pro". It shows by all of the usage of LOL. This is a term of the under 21 crowd. --tayme

@Yoshipod... Do you really don't understand what we told?? We know that we can buy MacOS X if you don't have a Mac computer... but what will you do with it?? Put the DVD in your toaster?? Apple does not need to sell Retail box of the Mac OS X for a higher price because they know if you buy it it is because you necessarily have a Mac and already pay full price for the version that came with it ... So it is like the retail box you purchase is an upgrade... On the Windows side it is not true because Microsoft have no guarantee you already pay for windows when you bought your PC because you could buy Linux ( for example) bundled with you PC computer... So ... To compare orange with orange when you compare the price of MacOS X you must compare it with the Windows upgrade price... Simple, or am I difficult to follow here?? Somebody??

Windows 7 to be in stores October 22. All you Borg drones must be creaming your pants! Sad really. Especially when you're being charged like a wounded bull for a minor upgrade. Suckers!

shitshady: Um, it makes no difference to me. Microsoft is still a joke and lies year after year. Steals from others also. Does not innovated (until others do and they copy). Microsoft is a joke in IT.

"So ... To compare orange with orange when you compare the price of MacOS X you must compare it with the Windows upgrade price... Simple, or am I difficult to follow here?? Somebody??" Then you must realize you can't compare a Macbook Pro with a cheap $699 PC laptop. Compare it to the high end PC laptops which cost close to the same. That's the point I am making. All this analysis one comparing retail prices on the OS, but you are not doing any on the laptops themselves.

Subzero, You said, "Nobody at Microsoft ever complained to Apple about the very deceptive Mac vs PC ads." You know this....how? HOW do you know that "nobody at Microsoft ever complained to Apple about the very deceptive Mac vs PC ads."??? Also...How do you know for sure that this supposed phone call from Apple legal even took place? Just asking.

Imacs are at least close to all-in-one prices for Vista, but they are mid to low end and small differences yield a higher percent. But I price Xeon work stations at Dell and HP, as someone posted should be done. The PC version cost hundreds to over a $1000 difference. It's the laptops that are way overpriced. I found Mac Pro's 50% nore than simialr Vista hardware, including adding software to be similar to iLife apps. hat hurts is that laptops were Apples sales leaders, at least in the recent past. Personally, I'm at the shore using my $400 Vista laptop with a glossy screen. Me and the kids like it a lot. If they ruin it by dropping it or spilling a drink on it, I'll just buy a new one. If they ruined a Mac Pro lappy, I'd throw a sh*t fit, so my cheapo lappy is perfect for the Dr.WAM family. I would recommend it in a heaqrt beat. No HDMI out, but many newer cheapo models have it now. Well, to each his or her own. Now back to the boardwalk. Good night all. PS Tayme, keep up with them workouts. I'm gonna arm wrestle you soon. I'll let you use both arms ;)

Nice end talk guys!! Good night all ... See you in the next Paul's post!!