Microsoft confirms that Windows 7 Starter will run more than 3 apps

"And how weird is it that this blog post does not address the biggest Windows 7 Starter limitation, the inability to change the wallpaper or welcome screen." What are you talking about? That post does address it. It states on one of the bullet points that you can't change those things. The blogger also states that his inability to change those things and personalize it is the main reason he opts to go for one of the higher SKUs.

Has Microsoft confirmed whether the wallpaper going to be the one with fish on dirty water? For that matter, is it possible to turn the wallpaper OFF (to blank colored background)?

tayme Actually, Windows 7 Home Basic is the version for emerging nations. Windows 7 Starter (that we're discussing here) is for minimal PCs such as low-end netbooks. Of course, you can always upgrade a Windows 7 Starter netbook to a more sophisticated version of Windows 7 if you want to get more features in exchange for a higher price. Microsoft lets the user make the choice based on their specific needs.

tayme The reason is simple. When you're selling a computer that retails for $200 or so, every dollar counts. The OEMs wanted a choice that could keep the price low. Their customers (the ones really using a small netbook for netbookish things like web browsing and such) wanted prices kept low. Remember that netbooks are generally a second or third computer and convenience and price often trump features in this market. Maybe many will upgrade. Maybe most will upgrade. Maybe almost all will upgrade. Great! That's their choice. But it is a certainty that some won't because they want the cheapest real Windows experience with all the compatibility they need and all the basic features they want for a small netbook. This version gives them the choice they want and I doubt they'd agree that their choice is "just plain stupid". And I suspect you don't want to be the one to tell them that you think it is and that you'd be happier if they couldn't get what they wanted because it offends you in some way.

I agree with you Mike. I don't see how it would be fair to sell Home Premium to a manufacturer for a cheaper price because they're putting it on a "netbook" as opposed to another manufacturer that's putting it on a "notebook." There has to be some things that differentiates the cheaper price tag.

While I can see the point about the wallpaper, I'm wondering if it would actually bother me at all. Buying low end would make me realize that it would have limitations, and I would appreciate anything else it does, above the needs of my netbook functions. In this case, perhaps some one from MS was thinking like me. However, as tayme will point out in a few more posts, if you can fix it easily, then why not do it?

@tayme "Like I have always said...what is best for some is not best for everyone...and this is yet another case of that. I think it is a stupid choice for me...but like you guys said, not so stupid for others. I want the FULL Windows experience, others may not." I feel the same way. But still, even if someone didn't want the full experience, why restrict not being able to change the wallpaper? Seems pointless to me. Having the ability to change wallpaper isn't a feature in my book.

tayme "Remember how many netbooks were being returned because people didn't realize that they were running Linux instead of Windows" More likely it was "I asked the salesman what Linux was and he said it was just like Windows. He lied."

ham, "Having the ability to change wallpaper isn't a feature in my book." It seems like a feature you consider necessary. And you don't think it's a feature? Odd.

@mikegalos - If you seriously think that not allowing a user the ability to change the wallpaper is a good idea then you have truly had way too much of the Redmond Punch. One of the first things most Joe/Joanne Users do is personalize the desktop; most often with a picture of Johnny/Jill User. Heck, even at several highly regulated companies that lock down the PCs that they deploy allow that. --tayme

@tayme: You'll be glad to know that most distributors (at least in Canada) barely stock Windows Vista Home Basic. Starter doesn't exist on SKU lists here either. OEM System Builder copies of Vista Home Basic just aren't in demand. I could confidently say that's going to be true of Windows 7 Starter. The thing is, in the channel, System Builders don't get extremely low-end hardware like major OEM's do. OEM's will make special contracts with Intel et al to receive the cheapest parts possible for some of these low end machines. Intel will carry old obsolete processors SPECIFICALLY for the major OEM's even after discontinuing channel sales. When you look at retail costs of processors, it's a laugh. Sometimes you'll see prices of the "low-end" Pentium dual-core processors like the E5200 and E5300, and they're the same price! Meanwhile, major OEM's will be buying tray versions of the E5200 for much less than retail, and still less than what they would pay for the E5300. Let me put it another way: the Core 2 Duo E4000 desktop and T6000 mobile chips don't even exist as retail parts, so System Builders can't build sub-$800 notebooks with half-decent processors in them. As far as whitebook notebooks go, the barebone shells that are available are extremely up-to-date with Intel mobile 4-series chispets, but the obsolete 965 and 945 chipset boards aren't available anymore even though some OEM's are still shipping them. AMD whitebooks? Forget about it! I have to compete on value for the dollar. Comparing apples to apples (not those Apple's....er well maybe....) I can provide a better value for the dollar. I don't deal in ultra-cheap systems though, until maybe there's an Ion-equipped whitebook system that I can offer with at least some level of customization and a decent amount of performance compared to existing systems. I'd actually prefer to wait until Intel gets in gear and offers a dual-core netbook version of the Atom. I'm already building Ion nettops with the dual-core Atom coupled with the NVIDIA Ion platform, and I can say that they're certainly good, but I'm not impressed with the N-series chips that sell in existing netbooks. It's a shame that's all there is right now though. The Atom 330 has been out for more than 6 months. Anyway....the point is, this is major OEM's are asking for this, not System Builders. The channel doesn't get a big enough say to ask for things like Starter, but at the same time, you should be thankful we don't.

Paul, Looking at your comparison chart I can't tell what the difference is between "Windows Basic UI" and "Windows Standard UI". Is there a place on your site that explains this?

Or, putting it simply... If you're not planning on only doing very limited things on limited hardware, Windows 7 Starter will be the wrong edition for your needs. Odds are that's pretty much everybody here for at least your first and second computers. . This is, frankly, as silly a discussion as listening to a sports car fan discussion on what's the best minimal point to point transportation choice and having them get into a debate about whether carbon brakes should be an option.

@mike "It seems like a feature you consider necessary. And you don't think it's a feature? Odd." Nope. I said I don't consider it a feature, so how would it be a feature I consider necessary? Hmm... Unless you just assume anything and everything the OS can do is a 'feature'. Right now I'm using the feature from windows called the keyboard listener. It lets me type. It's a feature. Almost anyone who uses a desktop OS, whether it be Windows, OSX, or some version of linux, assumes they can change the wallpaper. Its like if you buy a book, you assume there will be words written on the pages, when there is no words there, you think somethings wrong. [bad example]. If I tried to use this version of windows and couldn't change the wallpaper, I would assume something is wrong.

kent It's more like a group of Ferrari fans asking whether a "real" Ferrari (12 cyl) is necessary for their 80 year old mother to use to run out for groceries or could she get by on a 360. But never even considering that perhaps a Ferrari wasn't the best choice. .It's the amazing arrogance in assuming that what's best for people who hang out on technology boards is ideal for everyone else. (Of course, it's worse when you get into the LInux fanbase who think everyone's find with a 20 step, case sensitive script shell process to change a setting)

@mikegalos: "Of course, you can always upgrade a Windows 7 Starter netbook to a more sophisticated version of Windows 7 if you want to get more features in exchange for a higher price." That's what's known as the Microsoft tax.

Anyways guys its late. I need to go bing it and go to bed.

Do we know for sure that they don't let you change the wallpaper? Anyway, if the restriction is there, Microsoft better make sure people know about it. They will also need to let people know that this doesn't have Aero. Otherwise, they're looking at another set of embarrassing lawsuits. In any case, who cares about Windows Starter?

It's product/price point differentiation pure and simple. The message to the consumer, simply put, is "you want a dirt cheap, bare bones pc, part of the price is you'll just have to live with whatever branding the manufacturer chooses to put in the desktop background and startup screens." It's a price you pay for cheap - cheap always costs something. Frankly, I expect this feature will be associated in people's minds more the uber-cheap netbook product category than with the OS version per se. As in, "Yeah, that Acer is only $249. Of course you can't run Aero, or do stuff like change the desktop background, but, hey, $249." My guess is it'll be a non-issue.

"Do you agree with mikegalos and sub that Microsoft, the OEM, and Best Buy have no responsibility in informing them of the limitations?" No. Like I said, it would be stupid for Microsoft not to inform the consumer. The company has already been burnt once before. Microsoft should have created a version of its mobile OS for these cheap netbooks and called it Windows Netbook or something.

@Waethorn - That does not relieve them of the responsibility to inform customers of what they are buying. Like I have said, the buyer does have a responsibility, as well...but to say that they should look it up in wikis, blogs, and the like is wrong. Computers are now appliances like washers, dryers, dishwashers, TV's. A person may look at Consumer Reports or something, but that is about as far as it will go. Microsoft should do all they can to avoid the "Vista Ready" fiasco with 7. They won't be able to blame Intel this time. --tayme --tayme

"to say that they should look it up in wikis, blogs, and the like is wrong" That's why Microsoft offers partners and resellers vast quantities of marketing swag and sales training. Whether or not a reseller chooses to leverage that marketing collateral is not Microsoft's responsibility.

tayme "Do you agree with mikegalos and sub that Microsoft, the OEM, and Best Buy have no responsibility in informing them of the limitations?" Where did I say they Microsoft wouldn't inform the consumer? Aren't you one of the people complaining about all the informational text on Microsoft packaging that informs the consumer? Or are you suggesting that Apple be sued for not informing the user about limitation on their sparse, pretty and non-informative packaging?

@mikegalos - No, I don't believe that I have ever complained about the packaging that Microsoft or Apple uses. You must have imagined that at some point. All I am saying is that MS, OEMs, and Retailers need to be sure to make known all of the limitations AND all of the advantages of each and every edition of Windows 7 in order to avoid another "Vista Ready" situation. I like Windows 7....even more than I like Vista...I want to see it succeed and not fall into negative perception by any means. By the way...you never did answer this - Do you think that not allowing a user the ability to do something as simple as changing the wallpaper is a good idea - regardless of the version or edition of an OS? If so, you must also think that Apple allowing only apps that they have approved for the iPhone to only be sold through their store is OK. After all, they have informed the consumers and developers that this is the case. Or, is this yet another area of double standard for you? Enjoy your weekend! I plan too! --tayme

Another hint Stop thinking of low-end netbooks as minimal computers. Think of low-end netbooks as wireless Internet devices with keyboards and bigger screens. And those need an always-on, mobile Internet connection to be valuable.