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Microsoft finally discusses XP Mode in detail

Apr. 29, 2009 Paul Thurrott | Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows

After allowing Rafael and I to pretty much own the XP Mode discussion for the better part of a week for some reason, Microsoft has finally published some detailed information about this important new Windows 7 feature. I don't normally just republish entire articles like this, but this one is a big deal, so here we go. I am underlining the bits I think are most relevant...

Helping Small Businesses With Windows 7 Professional and Windows XP Mode

Q&A: Scott Woodgate discusses how Windows XP Mode helps customers maximize productivity and manage their technology infrastructure, while migrating to Windows 7. Woodgate also shares how Windows Virtual PC works with Microsoft Enterprise Desktop Virtualization (MED-V).

As part of the upcoming Windows 7 Release Candidate milestone, Microsoft will release a beta version of Windows XP Mode, which allows users of Windows 7 Professional and above to launch many older Windows XP productivity applications directly from their Windows 7 desktop. The Windows XP Mode stand-alone feature is specifically designed to help small businesses that are using Windows XP applications move to Windows 7. For larger businesses, Microsoft Enterprise Desktop Virtualization (MED-V) MED-V 2.0 builds on top of Windows Virtual PC and provides centralized management of Windows XP Mode. MED-V 2.0 will be available in beta within 90 days of general availability of Windows 7.

PressPass spoke with Scott Woodgate, director of Desktop Virtualization and Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP) at Microsoft, to find out how this new advancement is helping ensure a smooth transition for customers planning to migrate to Windows 7.

PressPass: What are you announcing today?

Woodgate: We are announcing the beta release of Windows XP Mode for Windows 7. Small businesses told us they wanted help upgrading to Windows 7. Windows XP Mode, an optional feature of Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise and Ultimate editions, helps small businesses upgrade to Windows 7 by providing a virtual Windows XP environment capable of running many Windows XP-compatible business and productivity applications. Customers can run many older Windows XP business and productivity applications within Windows XP Mode and launch them from the Windows 7 desktop with just a single click. A beta of Windows XP Mode will be made available on April 30.

PressPass: How does Windows XP Mode work?

Windows XP Mode is the combination of two features. The first part is a pre-packaged virtual Windows XP environment. The second is Windows Virtual PC, which is used to run the virtual Windows XP environment. Customers can install their applications into Windows XP Mode using typical installation processes such as downloading from the Web or using the product CD. Once installed, the applications are automatically available on the Windows 7 Start Menu and can be launched just like any Windows 7 program. Optionally, these Windows XP applications can be pinned to the Windows 7 Task Bar and launched using just a single click from the Windows 7 desktop.

PressPass: What types of applications are suited for Windows XP Mode and Windows Virtual PC stand-alone?

Woodgate: Windows XP Mode is best suited for older business and productivity applications such as accounting, inventory and similar applications. Windows XP Mode is not aimed at consumers because many consumer applications require extensive use of hardware interfaces such as 3-D graphics, audio, and TV tuners that do not work well under virtualization today. The sweet spot for applications that run in Windows Virtual PC is business and productivity applications that tend to conform to the basic Windows API (Application Programming Interface.) Small businesses operate under constrained resources and are highly sensitive to the time and expense required to upgrade their PC. Windows XP Mode provides small businesses with the ability to run many Windows XP applications, saving time and expense, but Windows XP Mode does not have 100 percent compatibility with all Windows XP applications. We encourage ISVs (Independent Software Vendors) and customers to install their applications in Windows XP Mode during the beta timeframe and provide us with feedback on their experiences.

PressPass: Does Windows XP Mode offer any benefits for larger businesses? How does this announcement relate to Microsoft Enterprise Desktop Virtualization (MED-V)?

Woodgate: Windows XP Mode and Windows Virtual PC as stand-alone features are specifically designed for small businesses and provide an unmanaged IT experience. For larger businesses looking to reduce the cost of ownership of deploying Windows Virtual PCs across hundreds of users, Microsoft provides MED-V. MED-V is one of the six components in Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP), a dynamic desktop solution designed for better management and control of enterprise desktop environments. MED-V is the management tool for Windows Virtual PC; it builds on top of Windows Virtual PC to run two operating systems on one device. Basically, by adding virtual image delivery and policy-based provisioning, it facilitates centralized management. This is a great tool for IT pros who want to reduce the cost of managing and deploying Windows Virtual PC.

Key features that MED-V provides include centralized management, policy-based provisioning and virtual image delivery. MED-V v1 is available today for Windows Vista and provides management for Microsoft Virtual PC 2007. MED-V 2.0 will be available in beta within 90 days of the general availability of Windows 7 and will be extended to manage Windows Virtual PC on 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Windows 7.

PressPass: How do small businesses handle these management tasks?

Woodgate: An important consideration of working with virtualization technology is the fact that the user has both the physical and the virtual PC to maintain. Every PC requires a degree of maintenance including but not limited to keeping the operating system and applications up to date with patches, virus and malware protection, and backup. Windows XP Mode is pre-configured with the Windows XP firewall and to apply updates automatically from Windows Update. It is not pre-configured with anti-virus or anti-malware software, which is recommended. Because of the need to maintain the virtual machine, we recommend everyone make best efforts to upgrade applications to run natively in Windows 7 and use Windows XP Mode only when necessary.

PressPass: How does Windows XP Mode align with Microsoft’s commitment to application compatibility?

Woodgate: With Windows 7, we’ve worked very hard to maintain compatibility with Windows Vista applications. We have an array of tools and resources to help with application compatibility. Virtually all Windows Vista-compatible applications, as well as the majority of Windows XP applications, run unmodified on Windows 7. For those that do not, the Programs Troubleshooter in the Control Panel provides a wizard interface to employ compatibility features that allow applications to run natively on Windows 7. For IT pros the Application Compatibility Toolkit provides finer-grained control over the compatibility features, also referred to as “shims.” When an application cannot run or be natively shimmed, that’s when it’s most appropriate to use Windows XP Mode technology.

PressPass: How can customers get Windows XP Mode?

Woodgate: Beta testers can download Windows Virtual PC and the virtual Windows XP environment later this week. When Windows XP Mode is released to production, there will be two ways for customers to get Windows XP Mode. The easiest way will be to get it pre-installed on a PC from an original equipment manufacturer or local value-added reseller. This requires minimum configuration and delivers the most compelling experience for small to medium-sized businesses. As an alternative, Windows Virtual PC and Virtual Windows XP will be available as downloads from Microsoft.com for Windows 7 Professional, Ultimate and Enterprise customers. Windows Virtual PC requires PCs with Intel VT or AMD-V hardware virtualization technology enabled in the PC BIOS. Windows XP Mode can be installed by anyone with reasonable PC maintenance experience; however, it is definitely easier to acquire via a new PC.

PressPass: Does Windows 7 have higher system requirements with Windows XP Mode installed?

Woodgate: Yes. We recommend that customers use Windows XP Mode on a PC with 2GB of memory. We also recommend an additional 15 GB of additional disk space for Windows XP Mode. In addition, Windows Virtual PC requires a PC with Intel-VT or AMD-V enabled in the CPU, as it takes advantage of the latest advancements in hardware virtualization.

PressPass: What have you heard from your customers about Windows XP Mode?

Woodgate: The early feedback we’ve received from customers on the concept is very positive, saying that they value our commitment to helping them manage their business. This new release reinforces our efforts to fuel business success by providing the right tools for our customers to flourish and succeed. By empowering our customers with Windows XP Mode, we are giving them the best of both worlds. They can now conveniently migrate to Windows 7 and move existing applications that may not have been compatible directly with Windows 7.

Good stuff. Nothing new per se (that is, with what we've said about XP Mode specifically), but it's nice to see it all laid out in official form.

Oh, and then there's this follow-up about MED-V v2.0:

How MED-V v2 Helps You Manage Windows XP Mode

Discuss this Article 57

kenmcnamee
on Apr 29, 2009
I'm actually more interested in playing with the new version of Virtual PC than in XP Mode. I'm hoping that they're going to at least attempt to catch up to VMWare and VirtualBox with support for USB devices and resolutions higher than 1600x1200. I'd have to believe that they are at least giving it better resolution support because otherwise an XP Mode application would not be able to go full screen on a 1920x1200 or higher display.
gfryesc1
on Apr 29, 2009
too bad paul never talked about Microsoft's earnings. WinSuperShill is more like it.
kenmcnamee
on Apr 29, 2009
gfryesc1: See http://windowsitpro.com/article/articleid/101983/microsoft-earnings-stum...
kent909
on Apr 29, 2009
So I will be interested to see this working in a virtual install of Win 7 on a Mac.
kenmcnamee
on Apr 29, 2009
kent909: "So I will be interested to see this working in a virtual install of Win 7 on a Mac." I'm not even sure whether that is possible, nevermind that it's just not a good idea to install VM software within VM software. I think Microsoft would probably classify that as an unsupported scenario.
gfryesc1
on Apr 29, 2009
oh no you don't, kenmcnamee, you've been told before that that is news story and not commentary. It's a different site and a different forum.
Lindy
on Apr 29, 2009
"An important consideration of working with virtualization technology is the fact that the user has both the physical and the virtual PC to maintain. Every PC requires a degree of maintenance including but not limited to keeping the operating system and applications up to date with patches, virus and malware protection, and backup" 1 + 1 = 2 and 2>1 :) Which equals higher cost to support this. So they only time I would see a "small business" use this is if the cost of doing so was cheaper than upgrading the software in question or the sofware in question is never going to be updated but they want to use it still. Of course you could hire SubZero and his merry band of certified professionals, but it still cost more:) "The Windows XP Mode stand-alone feature is specifically designed to help small businesses" Which kind of takes the "Wow/Secret feature announcement" excitment right out of it since its really aimed at a specific business target. Had the announcment been free upgrades for Vista users then I could see all of the circle jerking amongst the Windows fans.
slimshadey
on Apr 29, 2009
@Lindy are you my evil twin? This is nothing more than straight up virtualization, with a level 2 hypervizor, essentially nothing new. So its never going to be fantastic performance wise, its going to eat RAM on top of your hosts needs and as Microsoft and Lindy have stated you have to maintain both OS's on the same PC, whatever that cost might be. @kenmcnamee Paul should talk about the bad numbers for Microsoft, on the Winsupersite. Especially when he tries to turn Apple's good numbers into a negative story or at least slight them whenever possible. Its called hypocrisy, or Paul's middle name. I don't think Paul will because he has sold his sole to Microsoft so he can get inside information for his new Windows 7 book. He also would not want to contribute to Microsoft swiftboating:). Hey Paul how is that Windows Mobile Phone going after you ditched the iPhone?? Mine still sucks everyday, nothing a battery removal and replacement wont fix though.
tayme
on Apr 29, 2009
@gfryesc1 - "oh no you don't, kenmcnamee, you've been told before that that is news story and not commentary. " You really need to move past that. This is Paul's blog...he'll discuss what he wants. If you don't like it, don't read it. Your "oh no you don't" response is pathetic. --tayme
Lindy
on Apr 29, 2009
@slim ?????
kenmcnamee
on Apr 29, 2009
gfryesc1: "oh no you don't, kenmcnamee, you've been told before that that is news story and not commentary. It's a different site and a different forum." If you're that anal that you want to be so incredibly picky then I'll just point out that your specific complaint was, "too bad paul never talked about Microsoft's earnings." The article I linked to was... Paul talking about Microsoft's earnings. Personally, I couldn't care less whether it was discussed on this blog, or Windows IT Pro, or on Twitter or FriendFeed or Windows Weekly, etc. Any sane person would not be so narrowly-focused as you are being.
Dipsh t Admin
on Apr 29, 2009
"sold his sole [sic] to Microsoft" I never knew MS paid good money for shoes. Sorry, couldn't resist.
Lindy
on Apr 29, 2009
Tayme is the grade school street crossing gard at Winsupershill and he will set you straight gfryesc1!!! Oh its Pauls blog like tayme said so I guess you wont be hearing any bad news about Microsofts performance. I wonder if they would have saved that 10mil on Jerry....nah they lost 32million on the Zune and 360 alone last quarter so the Jerry/Bill stuff would not have helped.
slimshadey
on Apr 29, 2009
Soul it is:) Thank you kindly Dipsh t Admin. @Lindy NM I was joking about something you probably missed a few days ago.
RobertC
on Apr 29, 2009
I must say that Paul does make his "unbiased" mantra look a little silly when there is no mention of the Microsoft quarterly numbers on his blog, especially after mentioning Apple's. The Microsoft numbers represented the first decline (32%) since it went public, so that has to be newsworthy. Nevertheless, getting back on topic. It should be a surprise to nobody that the addition of a virtual machine requires additional hardware resources and maintenance. The key difference here though is that Microsoft is slashing the cost involved by providing a free licenced copy of Windows XP. The only other software cost involved would be, perhaps, an anti-virus solution. On the hardware side, most modern desktops should have enough RAM and disk space. In any event, the fact that you can run XP Mode applications seamlessly, side-by-side with native Windows 7 applications is excellent. This is really a big step forward for Microsoft.
lvthunder
on Apr 29, 2009
Lindy: "An important consideration of working with virtualization technology is the fact that the user has both the physical and the virtual PC to maintain. Every PC requires a degree of maintenance including but not limited to keeping the operating system and applications up to date with patches, virus and malware protection, and backup" 1 + 1 = 2 and 2>1 :) Which equals higher cost to support this. So they only time I would see a "small business" use this is if the cost of doing so was cheaper than upgrading the software in question or the sofware in question is never going to be updated but they want to use it still. Of course you could hire SubZero and his merry band of certified professionals, but it still cost more:) At work we use a version of AutoCAD that can only run on 32 bit OS. With this we can now upgrade to the 64bit version of Windows 7 and get more then 3.5GB of RAM until we can upgrade our AutoCAD (which costs about $1500 a seat). You guys tend to forget just how expensive some of these pro apps cost.
RobertC
on Apr 29, 2009
lvthunder, nevermind the Mac fanatics. They never have and never will understand the needs of business, unlike Microsoft which has been serving business needs since its inception. That said, AutoCad is graphic intensive, so I'm not sure whether it would run well in a virtualised environment. In fact, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't. You may have to investigate the costlier VMware solutions which have better 3D Acceleration, but even then I wouldn't expect the results to be great.
anonymous
on Apr 29, 2009
Links this morning from Aryk and Len. First up are 4 Star Trek clips. Next are some details of Motorola's...
Mum
on Apr 29, 2009
"I must say that Paul does make his "unbiased" mantra look a little silly when there is no mention of the Microsoft quarterly numbers on his blog, especially after mentioning Apple's." I bet this is not the end of comments such as "The last time Iooked this site was called 'Windows Supersite' so why do you people STILL come here talkin' about Macs? Eh?" As for the XP mode, from what I can gather the system requirements mean businesses also need to update their hardware in order to finally abandon XP for Windows 7 and its XP mode.
tayme
on Apr 29, 2009
@RobertC - "I must say that Paul does make his "unbiased" mantra look a little silly..." As I have stated before, I have never found or been directed to where Paul has stated that he is unbiased...let alone repeated it often enough for it to be considered his mantra. I must be missing something. Regarding using XP Mode to run apps that are not ready to be upgraded or may never be upgraded...again, this is something that an organization will need to test before just rolling it out. I know that we will be doing so as soon as possible. This will allow us to let our IT environment sit and rot a bit longer - ;-)... --tayme
Waethorn
on Apr 29, 2009
@Ivthunder: I have a client that upgraded their Autocad Architecture something-or-other software to the 2009 64-bit version, running on Vista x64 with 4GB of RAM and a fairly cheap Quadro FX 570 card (with certified drivers) and they won't look back. They tell me that render speeds are incredibly fast and clean. They take the original blueprints made in Autocad and render them in this Architecture package from Autodesk with full landscape scenes. When they design and engineer the blueprints for the job, it's the final rendering that gets them the contract.
lotsamystuff
on Apr 29, 2009
"They never have and never will understand the needs of business, unlike Microsoft which has been serving business needs since its inception." "Businesses" come in all shapes and sizes, my elephantine friend. In many business disciplines, Macs dominate, and for good reason. There's no need to make a silly blanket statement like yours and assume it's true across the board (unless you're "illustrating absurdity by being absurd" like your hero Rush...a Mac user, incidentally).
tayme
on Apr 29, 2009
@"lotsamystuff" - Are you saying that Rush is "illustrating absurdity by being absurd" because he is a Mac user? - ;-) <---wink, wink; nudge, nudge; say no more! --tayme
slimshadey
on Apr 29, 2009
"At work we use a version of AutoCAD that can only run on 32 bit OS. With this we can now upgrade to the 64bit version of Windows 7 and get more then 3.5GB of RAM until we can upgrade our AutoCAD (which costs about $1500 a seat). You guys tend to forget just how expensive some of these pro apps cost." Sooo your answer is to install Windows 7 64bit, then Windows XP in VPC, support both OS'ses, as in patch, AV, maybe a SMS/SCCM client (maybe more on each OS) and install the old AutoCad in the XP VM? vs Staying on XP until you buy the new autocad and then rolling to 7. Which will save your IT budget money and your IT staff the time spent on supporting two OS's per box. Time is money, you gals tend to for get that. Having more than 3.5gig of RAM is not going to do anything for the 32bit version of Autocad running in the XP VM. It can be used to cache Office 2007 and allow you open up 5+ tabs in IE8 and still have enough RAM to move your mouse around!!!
tayme
on Apr 29, 2009
@slimshadey - While I agree with your approach of staying on XP until the version of autocad can be upgraded, certain salesmen and evangelists on this site will accuse that of allowing your IT environment to sit and rot, instead of being a good steward of the resources that we are given to work with. But of couse, those certain salesmen and evangelists have no idea of what it takes to run a real enterprise IT department, so we have to take that with a grain of salt. --tayme
slimshadey
on Apr 29, 2009
"That said, AutoCad is graphic intensive, so I'm not sure whether it would run well in a virtualised environment. In fact, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't. You may have to investigate the costlier VMware solutions which have better 3D Acceleration, but even then I wouldn't expect the results to be great." Does Autocad use 3D? I know other products like Solid Works will. Even though VMware supports DierectX 9.0 it emulates a SVGA II video card. Not going to get any real performance out of it.
Waethorn
on Apr 29, 2009
"Staying on XP until you buy the new autocad and then rolling to 7." *OR* If you need computers this year, upgrade to Windows Vista 64-bit because it's fully supported by Autodesk RIGHT NOW. Plus, it's mature and stable with your current applications with Windows Vista Certified (and Autodesk certified) drivers for professional video cards, unlike Windows 7, which is a variable at this point. Nobody knows how Windows 7 will work with AutoCAD 2009/2010 until 7 RTM's, and NVIDIA as well as Autodesk supports it fully. Vista x64 is stable and reliable with Autodesk software right now. If you want to wait until 7 is mature and stable, you'll be waiting even longer after it RTM's (many companies will still wait until 7 SP1 anyway). If your IT department wants to capitalize on your investment, they'll recommend buying PC's preloaded with all of your Microsoft software as OEM versions, and then just get Software Assurance as an add-on so that you get support directly from Microsoft as well as your upgrades to newer software (ie. Windows 7 and Office 2010 - when you're ready). Buying OS software in OEM and getting a blanket agreement (such as an enterprise agreement) that includes additional licenses costs more than just buying all software as OEM and adding only SA to it. When you buy new computers, you can renew SA once in most Open License programs so you get 3+3 years in total (AFAIK) for a hardware lifecycle with up-to-date software. After that, your SA contract will expire, but by the time 6 years rolls around, you're probably ready for new hardware, so the cycle starts over again. That systems works extremely well for most companies, although most IT managers think that large-scale agreements are more cost effective, which is definitely not true in many cases. OEM is always the cheapest way to buy Microsoft software - UNLESS you're a registered charity or educational institution. Software Assurance can still be added to OEM software without buying licenses in a Volume License Agreement though. You'd be surprised how many large companies I've done contract work for that didn't know that though, but have been sucked in by an IT purchaser that thought that buying in bulk was the best option (ie. enterprise agreement), or else got a percentage off the sale.
Lindy
on Apr 29, 2009
"Nobody knows how Windows 7 will work with AutoCAD 2009/2010 until 7 RTM's, and NVIDIA as well as Autodesk supports it fully." I am pretty sure Paul posted some officials comment from the Windows 7 team stating that "if it works with Vista it will work with 7" or maybe it was "if it does not work with Vista it wont work with 7" in either case the translation was loud and clear. 7 is Vista from a sofware compatibility/driver standpoint. You would STUPID out of your mind to deploy Vista now vs waiting 6 months at the max for 7. (Going from XP that is)
Waethorn
on Apr 29, 2009
Any IT purchaser has to balance the cost of purchasing computers at a given time. Do you need computers now, or can you wait to save money? Does it actually save you any money to wait? How can you justify it either way? "certain salesmen and evangelists on this site will accuse that of allowing your IT environment to sit and rot, instead of being a good steward of the resources that we are given to work with" Cry me a river while you let me play a tune on my violin for you. The computer industry is moving. Forward. If you don't move forward you might as well step off now before you get dragged behind. Companies that don't evolve will perish.
Waethorn
on Apr 29, 2009
"7 is Vista from a sofware compatibility/driver standpoint." That's was a blanket statement for consumers. You would be RETARDED to accept that comment as advice for a business environment. Lindy, you suck at IT.
hamiltonstallings
on Apr 29, 2009
I agree Waethorn.
subzerohitman721
on Apr 29, 2009
Waeth, Thanks for making my point. These guys just want to justify their salaries instead of doing their jobs. No wonder IT jobs are leaving the Western Hemisphere and headed East to undeveleoped nations. Instead of making an environmnent truely efficient, they want you to stick on the old platform because they don't have to do any real work. Well, soon they will be dinosaurs in the wake of newer version of Windows 7 and the next Server version. They'll actually have to get "gulp" recertified and retrained. They might actually have to put their life on hold and "gulp" study. Then the hard part, actually working and changing their lazy envriornment to something thats more efficient. Scarry. Oh well, I'm going to have the last laugh at these fools. It reminds me of the guys holding on to 8 track while CD's made their way to market. Pretty pathetic really.
tayme
on Apr 29, 2009
@subzero - I really hope that you don't think that jumping into W7 with XP Mode in a production environment without testing - as I said will be occuring in our company - is lazy. I can't remember what type or size of a company that you work for is...but if it is a regulated industry then there is no way that you actually believe that change control, testing, lifecycle management, disaster recovery, SOX, HIPAA, and other risk management practices do not matter. You may not like them...but they are a fact of life that must be dealt with. And the regulations will not be getting any less stringent anytime soon. If none of that means anything to you, then you, like Waethorn, suck at IT. --tayme
robertsjoe
on Apr 29, 2009
Love those lame 1995 floppy icons in the UI. http://lifehacker.com/5231478/office-2010-screenshots-preview-whats-to-c...
robertsjoe
on Apr 29, 2009
Great look at how bad Microsoft Office UI is. http://stevenf.tumblr.com/post/101550689/office-2010-preview
Waethorn
on Apr 29, 2009
@tayme: He never said that and neither did I. We both said that companies that are dismissing Windows Vista and looking at Windows 7 NOW are doing themselves a disservice. Companies also shouldn't be waiting until the current platform is in extended support to start testing the next one, as it seems you and Lindy both advocate. Likewise, Lindy thinks that Windows 7 is Vista SP3, when it isn't. That's just stupid. It's a different UI, it has different deployment methodologies, and it has a different minor version number (SP's only have a different build number), which throws off software a lot easier than Vista SP2 will. It has different security components which will also affect software compatibility, and IE8 ships standard, which means that web applications will also need to be compatible with the newer web standards or else a compatibility tag has to be inserted to enable IE7 support (assuming the web app already supports at least IE7) Honestly, if it takes you over 2 years to test your software on Windows Vista, then you honestly suck at IT. Period. If your vendor doesn't support a current computing platform that's shipping on new PC's, they also suck. That's just the truth. Face it. Pushing your vendors to adapt to changing platforms is what IT workers need to do. Sitting on old technology does your company no favours, since you'll have to replace old hardware with new hardware and there exists a point where new hardware isn't supported on old software, or else support costs increase when you have to hire people to patch and program band-aids over the old system (XP Windows Updates, anyone?). Of course, there are always individuals that feel so much arrogant nervousness about their position where a new face can easily replace them, that they sit on older, proprietary configurations so that nobody else in their right mind would even want to service it but them, and their employer wouldn't be able to hire anybody else to replace them. Let me put your doubt to rest: IT WORKERS ARE EXPENDABLE. It only takes someone with intelligence to identify leeches. Either grow a pair, or quit, cuz the industry is evolving without you.
tayme
on Apr 29, 2009
@waethorn - "as it seems you and Lindy both advocate." Show me what made you think that...because you are dead wrong. I advocate no such thing. "Honestly, if it takes you over 2 years to test your software on Windows Vista, then you honestly suck at IT." I agree. Testing was done and most apps are certified. The ones that aren't do not because of one or more regulatory issues...something that it is obvious that you suck at. "If your vendor doesn't support a current computing platform that's shipping on new PC's, they also suck." Agreed again. As I said before, compliance issues cause many industries to do things different than non-regulated industries and the standard home user. "Let me put your doubt to rest: IT WORKERS ARE EXPENDABLE. " I have no doubts in that area. Thus I am currrent on several certs and do not advocate reckless IT practices, like you seem to. "Either grow a pair, or quit, cuz the industry is evolving without you." Simply put, you are wrong. I am obviously more aware of the IT industry, as a whole, than you are. Otherwise I would be as clueless about regulatory and compliance issues as you are. --tayme
Waethorn
on Apr 29, 2009
"I would be as clueless about regulatory and compliance issues as you are." Sorry, but you are wrong. I work with different companies from week to week on regulatory issues regarding system deployment and IT development. I can't count the numbers of multi-hundred page documents that I've had to review on regulatory issues that companies need to abide by and certify my systems against. I deal with MANY different vertical markets, not just one. I can say confidently that most of these so-called "regulatory issues" that you talk about that holding your company back on adopting new technologies are either a farce, or just that US regulatory mandates suck. I've never heard of any applications in healthcare, manufacturing, or numerous other verticals where regulatory issues kept vendors from adapting to current platforms.
robertsjoe
on Apr 29, 2009
Cuba says no to Microsoft http://www.unixmen.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=85:c... It's ironic that a Communist country says not to a Communist-like company such as Microsoft.
RobertC
on Apr 29, 2009
robertsjoe, i hadn't realised that obscure, irrelevant blogs had suddenly become purveyors of objectivity and reasoned analysis. In a Mac fanatic world, anything non-Apple is bad of course.
RobertC
on Apr 29, 2009
robertsjoe, a company can't be "communist-like" since communism envisages common ownership of the means of production and land. Companies would not exist under communism.
tayme
on Apr 29, 2009
@Waethorn - So you admittedly do not understand the US Regulatory system. Quit talking like you do...doubtful, since you refuse to listen or read a word that goes against your version of the truth. Even Paul has noticed and commented on that! --tayme
Lindy
on Apr 29, 2009
"Lindy, you suck at IT." Wae I will stack my resume up next to yours any day of the week. I did small time IT like you do now but that bored me, years ago. @subzero do you want to compare certifications? Lets just compare Microsoft certifications if you want? We could throw in some Cisco, and VMware if you want? "Companies also shouldn't be waiting until the current platform is in extended support to start testing the next one, as it seems you and Lindy both advocate. Likewise, Lindy thinks that Windows 7 is Vista SP3, when it isn't." First off I never said stay with XP just because. The move to stay with XP and not move to Vista is made at a IT management level and it should be what is best for the company or organization that you work for. Cost is probably the number one reason to go or not to go to Vista. Cost is.... The cost of the OS. The cost of hardware upgrades if any to support the new OS. The cost in time/man hours to test, certify a standard build with the existing software a company uses. The cost of training technical people on the new OS. The cost of training users on the new OS. The cost of supporting users once its rolled out or as its rolled out. The cost of certifying your new OS with any regulatory standards your company must comply with, SOX, PCI...etc. The is also cost of staying with the old OS, supporting it especially if its hard to maintain (lots of patches) drivers become hard to find etc, possible loss of production by users if the OS is hard to support. There are possible savings you might eliminate if you upgrade to the new OS. Think of a company with 100k + client desktops to upgrade. Its not cheap at all. If you have good people in upper management of your IT organization they will be focused on how IT can help the company do what it wants to do and be as efficient as possible. The average IT expenditure is 3.5% of your total budget. Anymore is to much, any less and you make loose competitive advantage by not leveraging IT to its potential. So looking at some recent trends that I notice. Client PC's used to be upgraded every 3 years as a norm. I have seen that slip to 4 and 5 years specifically to save money. Adoption of Vista, has it even reached 10% amongst the fortune 1000....nope. So that tells me that smart people way the pros and cons and do what is right for the corporation and that was not choosing Vista. Doing so probably saved them lots of money and deferred the cost for 2-3 years with out impacting there ability to do business. Skipping Vista, and going to 7 means you get a better OS, and you probably are not impacted or way less so by hardware upgrades since a recent hardware upgrade at the client level easily can handle the leaner 7. So Subzero (you such a tool) its not a lazy enviroment, its a complex tool that cost a lot of money to operate and changing just because something is shiny and new is pure stupidity. It simply comes down to one equation for any business is the Value > Cost. Because MICROSOFT (and paul) have flat out said that Vista and 7 are the SAME from a driver/software compatibility standpoint that upgrading from a working XP environment to Vista right now is pure stupidity. If you have been testing your Vista builds these two factors (hardware/software) will be no different with 7 or so says Microsoft. I would bet that there is a 1% or less hardware/software compatibly delta with Vista/7.
Lindy
on Apr 29, 2009
"Honestly, if it takes you over 2 years to test your software on Windows Vista, then you honestly suck at IT." Wae I agree with you. I was part of a 300 person Vista pilot. We started with Vista Beta2 in say April of 2006. We were done in November I think. I was only a user and I had two machines at my desk. A Vista desktop and my XP notebook. I only used XP when I could not do my job with Vista. We had several phases. At the time they gave us desktop PC's with 1gig of RAM which was double what the current XP desktop got at the time. We quickly found out which applications worked or did not work. We then tried to make them work. Some were commercial applications some were in house. In the end, the cost of upgrades to hardware, software that we could buy upgrades for and the cost (time and resources) of modifying working in-house applications before they were do to be upgraded just to run Vista was deemed to costly and so we did not move to Vista. We set a date of 2010 as the planned migration time frame. The pilot group was broken down and the desktop team continued testing through the many patches, performance updates and service packs. When 7 started to solidify, what is was and was not, general release dates (we get information from MS, NDA stuff) then the decision was made to wait for 7. The same thing happened for Office 2007 and we just moved to it at the end of last year. SP1 and RAM upgrades to most desktops, through new machines being acquired mostly was the trigger. It did not perform well on XP with 512megs of RAM.
robertsjoe
on Apr 29, 2009
@lindy: "Wae I will stack my resume up next to yours any day of the week." I think that everyone here knows that @waethorn has no idea. Just ignore him.
RobertC
on Apr 29, 2009
Funny that bobby joe, I was just about to say the same thing about you.
slimshadey
on Apr 29, 2009
Waethorn and SubZero are a couple of clueless helpdesk jockeys. Neither of them has any idea of how IT really works outside of their local computer store and starwars fan club meetings. I have no doubt if and when Subzero gets promoted off the helpdesk to Jr. System Administrator he will name the first server he builds Yoda. May the force be with you, live long and dorky brother. Waethorn would sell his dying grandmother a L33T Overclocked quad core, Full Tower desktop with 16gigs of RAM, quad SLI, X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro, Aegis physics card, 1KW Power Supply and Killer NIC with Vista 64bit so she could spend her last few hours creating midi music, just to make a canadian buck, so he could go to Rotten Ronnies and live like a King. Sounds like someone that knows real world IT inside and out. I cant wait until he posts his next link to a malware site.
robertsjoe
on Apr 29, 2009
@robertc: I bet I know what the C in RobertC stands for.
robertsjoe
on Apr 29, 2009
@slimshadey: @waethorn loves to hawk inferior products, like PCs and Microsoft crap and partake in fine dinning (McDonald's). Tasteless all around.
robertsjoe
on Apr 29, 2009
"Microsoft is the Detroit of software. It makes big, ugly, dangerous, resource-hogging crap, and its “success” is based on…its “success.”" So true. http://b1ff.org/2009/04/29/2276/fire-detroit-gop-microsoft/

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