Microsoft needs advertising that 'just works'

The Zune comment is one that kinda irks me slightly. Having just bought one last Friday (Canadian release finally), I love the little player. Much more than I did my 3rd Gen Nano. It does everything I want it to, does it very elegantly, and I know than when MS releases V3 of the software, I'll most likely be able to apply it to my unit and have all the new stuff as well. Seems to me by that comment is that even people within MS fault the Zune for not being an iPod (or at least fault it for not being iPod popular).

Zune definitely needs some more work... but I really like mine as well. Started with the Zune30 (which REALLY needed work at the time) and now with my Zune 80 I'm super happy. I also found my upgrade experience with Vista to be very easy. I'm running it on all my non-Mac machines and I'm definitely happy. The moment I realized the Vista perception problem was when my Dad was going to buy a new computer... he's not that tech savvy... and he said can I get a new computer with XP cuz obviously Vista is terrible. I said "Why?" ... his response was a number of friends opinions saying so (incidentally, none of which were running Vista)... I told him to ignore them and buy a new machine with Vista. He did and he LOVES it. It's amazing that for so long MSFT was regarded as the "Master Marketer"... and now that image is completely gone.

Nobody is 'shackled to iTunes' although I think that you mean the iTunes Music Store. While I own 4 Sansa's and 2 iPods, not one song was purchased from iTunes Music Store, as they all were ripped from CD's. iTunes is just an application used to load your iPod, just as other many players use their own proprietary app. Personally, I hate the iTunes app, ,but even the new Sansa'a need an app. I can work around it with Vista [thank god], but not on XP. This just proves John's point that 'love doesn't come easy to Goliath', although I find the iTunes app itself less user friendly then using Vista to directly load the ripped CD music. Since the majority of the market uses Windows, i actually think that there is no problem with image. On the contrary, Apple has a bad image with enterprise, if no one will switch. Why does my group use all Windows based computers, well, because they 'just work'. Duh. Also, there is just no Apple solution for all our medical apps, billing apps and most all the other IT stuff. Would we even be willing to switch to Apple? Nope, but I do use it at home. Will my next computer be a Mac? Nope, because I already have a Pro Tower and would rather have a second less expensive Vista PC for backup, since my average user style does almost nothing different on a PC. than I use on the Mac.

This reminds me of a video that Long Zhen posted some time ago about a spec ad for the Zune that never became a bona-fide ad for the Zune. It is quite emotional and just the right type of ad that can help to change perceptions. I think that MS needs to be doing ads like this. http://www.istartedsomething.com/20080505/zune-spec-spot-music-is-life/ Paul, you are correct about the Apple ads. While cute, they do nothing to really tell you how the Mac is better, but rather just bash the competition, and that type of arrogance flows all the way from the top. It's kind of the like the cutthroat copier business. Everyone just bashes the other brands, and it is quite annoying.

@Dipsh t Admin That's agreat ad... uh non-ad

"While cute, they do nothing to really tell you how the Mac is better, but rather just bash the competition" I think it's kinda obvious the message is X, Y and Z are wrong with Vista - and implicitly (and often explicitly) those same problems don't exist with Apple. This is not rocket science. Anybody can see that's the message - I guess except people who don't like the ads because they conflict with their world view.

Oh...and this is coming from a guy that just purchased his 6th Mac since the system 7 days and prior to that owned at least 4 different Apple II systems. --tayme

@cesjr I understand your point of view and while I think the problems were far fewer than initially reported pretty much all of those issues are NOW a thing of the past. FWIW I upgraded 3 machines right away with VistaUltimate without a hitch... printers, webcams, mice all worked w/o issue. Maybe I got lucky... but today those issues are resolved in Vista from where I sit. (this coming from a Mac and PC user but mostly PC)

@cesjr - That is because it is obvious to me that is Paul's opinion...this is after all, HIS BLOG. My debate with you last week regarding opinion was due to your belief that: a. Your opinion was the only correct opinion. b. People that use standard cell phones have no opinion - or that they don't matter. c. Your debate tactics are flawed and would never score a point in a competitive debate. Your statements are not detailed enough and are often inaccurate. That was it...nothing more. Like I said above...I have people ask me for advice regularly when they are buying a new PC...lately the question has been something like "What is it that makes a Mac better than a Vista PC?" I gave my standard answer above...to me, that shows that Apple is creating a perception that PC's running Vista just plain don't work...And, I can show them the reality that they do indeed work...and work well. Like I also said above, I have recommended Macs to people that tend to have major malware problems...but those are generally people that have PCs that I did not set up or that they have unsafe browsing habits. --tayme

@Loiosh MSDN and TechNet are *specifically* business oriented. MSDN is aimed at Developers and TechNet is aimed at IT Pros. However, I do agree that Microsoft's developers are responsive and willing to answer e-mail from the public. I've said it before, but Microsoft's primary problem is with A-list bloggers. The Internet's cool kids don't like Microsoft, so everything Microsoft does automatically "sucks." Nearly all of Vista's negative press coverage was amplified and echoed from the "Microsoft sucks" meme started by a relatively few number of people. Apple's ads (which are hilarious) merely reinforced a meme that was already running. How does Microsoft fix this problem? I don't have any good answers and obviously, they don't either. I'd start by going back to Vista's release - figure out where the "Vista sucks" thing actually started and then talk directly to the people who started it. Find out what problems they had and whether those problems have been addressed. Second, Microsoft needs to talk directly to IT Managers who haven't or won't deploy Vista. Find out if they won't deploy because of Vista's image or because they've had specific problems. Again, go back and fix the problems that people have had. Finally, Microsoft should start an ad campaign centered on Vista's looks, features and reliability. Vista has been much, much more reliable than XP for me. The search features make finding programs and information easy. Unlike XP, Vista doesn't look like a child's toy. Vista: Reliable, Easy, Good looking.

Mac vs PC? Well, I know what "just works" (for me, at least)... One of the things that always makes me laugh is stuff like this: http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/madeofhonor/site/popup/wallpaper/popu... FOUR steps to put an image as desktop in a Mac vs ONE (!) in Windows... LOL

While cute, they do nothing to really tell you how the Mac is better, but rather just bash the competition" I think it's kinda obvious the message is X, Y and Z are wrong with Vista - and implicitly (and often explicitly) those same problems don't exist with Apple. This is not rocket science. Anybody can see that's the message - I guess except people who don't like the ads because they conflict with their world view...cesjr I have no problems with a world view based on actual facts, and there are corresponding facts that prove that Vista is more secure and stable than OSX and the hardware and driver problems are common in the introduction of a new OS. My biggest problems are Apples misleading adds and Microsoft's lack of reaction to them.

I was thinking about this through the day. I think the best solution is for Microsoft to find someone to be the evangelist / spokesman for Windows. I am not suggesting some actor (ala, Mac / PC Guy), but a person who is well spoken, who is heavily versed in PC knowledge, and who has the ability to speak directly to the Windows team inside of MS. They really need a front-man like Major Nelson for the Windows world. Paul, as an example, is still too bitter and cynical. Bill Gates is far too boring and seen as out-of-touch. Leo (Laporte) is too easy (sorry Leo). If they had someone who either had respect or could gain it out in the community, who really knew Windows, Mac and Unix worlds and was assisted by MS they could start working on their image. And yes, I'm volunteering. :)

>> I would never consider buying an Apple product, not because I don't think they make good products, but simply because I would not want to be associated with the more vocal people in the iCabal<< If I determined that one product or another, especially something like a PC, was the best of class, I'd use it and not care what other people thought.

@cesjr - "So you're saying that Paul can freely make arguments -- about whether something is true or correct and other people are wrong -- that constitute unsupported subjective opinion, but a different standard of proof applies to anyone challenging his arguments." No...I did not say that. I said that it is obvious that is Paul's opinion...the reason is that this is his blog...and that is what he does..posts his opinion. Feel free to challenge his or anyone elses opinions...but keep in mind...everyone can have anopinion. Nowhere did I say that my opinion was the only correct opinion...nor did I sday that Paul's opinions are always right. Show me where Paul or I said that his or my opinion is the only correct opinion...then you might get a point here. Right here - http://community.winsupersite.com/blogs/paul/archive/2008/06/12/iphone-3... - is where you did it. --tayme

Attacking Apple in return won't recover that mindshare...they can't steal Apple customers the way Apple can pilfer theirs. What they can do is teach people that theres no need for a radical *change!*...Ocean Microsoft doesn't have to attack Apple in their commercials, they just have to point to the facts. Vista is Secure Vista is stable and compatible with thousands of different hardware configurations. Its more cost efficient to own and gives you greater choice of hardware and prices. It's very pretty to look at with nice transitions(it you like that sort of thing)Otherwise you can change it, It's Windows after all ! More good things to come:)

Microsoft should hollerback only to kill the negative perception of Vista. Being the fact that the Vista base is much large and yet its considered by a few in the minority a failure. Let me indulge you with a recent event in my family. My father who is 52 just bought his first notebook. A HP notebook with an Intel Core 2 Duo, 3 GB memory, 250 GB SATA drives, nVidea graphics, wireless N, and 15.4" widescreen. The notebook came with Vista Home Premium and Office 07. Now keep in mind my father is a very conservative man. Change isn't his forte. He grew up in a pre-PC America. His college days were in the early 1970's when Xerox Parc were just developing the first GUI interface and ethernet. When he went back to college in the mid to late1990's, he picked up courses in DOS, Windows, and PC basics. On his first attempt, he built his own PC from Frys. He held on to Windows 98 till XP service pack 2, then he migrated in late 2004. Now in May 2008, he gives Vista with SP 1 a shot. Upon first looking at it and giving it a shot, he said and I quote, "Wow, this is easy. Its very beautiful too. I can figure it out." Since then, he uses any spare time to jump on his notebook. He hasn't touched his XP desktop in weeks. The lesson here folks is this. If a man who totally missed the PC era can transition to Vista in 24 hours, then all the excuses about Vista are total BS! Anyone with some Windows experience can handle Vista. Now just because some people want to take the quick and easy route with Apple, thats fine. I don't hate on anyone and I certainly do not lose any sleep over it. But please, enough with the "So 15 minutes ago" complaints about Vista. Certainly enough with the Vista sucks nonsense. Instead, perhaps Apple and its community should focus on the instabilities in Leopard and work on Snow Leopard. If you go on youtube, look for the D5 interview with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are good friends. They take vacations, still make fun of each other but its certainly not mean spirited. They are so over the rivalry. For them, it is what it is. Perhaps many Windows and Mac users should learn from their example and tone down the rhetoric.

O irony thy name is Windows users. Lets see if this fits "I would never consider buying a Microsoft product, ot because I don't think they make good products, but simply because I would not want to be associated with the more vocal people in the Windows-Jihadists sub group (TM). Let the mental gymnastics begin...Dude1313 The mental gymnastics is right, you have two mature OS's for a UI perspective, Vista is pretty but really doesn't hit you as revolutionary. MAC OS X Leopard disappointed when it debuted late and missing most of it's 300 new features and nothing really to write home about. Both OS's were Buggy when they first became available. Ye when using Vista over time it becomes obvious that XP is now dated and belongs in the past. and Vista is the present and Future from a platform perspective of Windows. OSX leopard is a nice upgrade once all the little improvements are used together . I suspect Apple and Microsoft will push much harder in the next versions of their respective Systems. Either way you can't lose.

Are the Apple adverts any good? They actually were put to the legal test here in England and they were found to be substantially accurate. My own feeling is they take every annoyance that Windows has had since Windows 95 and it evokes memories in people and they come to the conclusion 'This sucks'. Is this fair, no? The only advantages Apple really has are real software for consumers and a real world security advantage but these are significant...Avro There is no real world advantage, Vista is more secure. As for Hardware, Vista should run just fine on your present Hardware as long as it was manufactured in the last 3 or 4 years. I'm not aware of the commercials in the UK, but here in the states the Commercials are misleading, they present no tangible evidence and simply bash the competition. Sorry about the activation with Office, I haven't had the same problems here, pretty much activated Office 2007 with no fuss. I'm not an Apple hater, just being objective.

The adverts. It was actually the American adverts that were judged here. Is it easier to set up a home network on a Mac? Yes Is iLife a good suite? Yes Is security better an a Mac? Yes Are Macs easier to set-up? Yes Do Mac laptops (and most desktops) come with microphones and webcams? Yes Is Time Machine good for back-up? Yes..Avro I don't believe the security issue, there have been no attacks on Vista, it's secure and will get only better. Please.. PC tools? these companies make their living telling the world the Sky is falling they need a reason to justify their business models, there have been no attack against Vista in the year it's been out on the market. These same companies are now telling the world that Apple is the next big problem in software,Cellphones are vulnerable blah blah blah. Time Machine is nice, though thats been out in Windows for a few years now. I do like i Life, and I wish that Windows had something equivalent, will have to wait until the fall for Vista to have their version. I know plenty of kids with both platforms, like I said, they both offer value and appeal. "None of these actually bash Microsoft. There are others that exploit some shortcomings in Windows to be sure, but remember these adverts are meant for switchers and you have to give them some good reasons for choosing a Mac over a Windows machine. You emphasize your positives and the other guys shortcomings." yes that's the way to do it, then again they are no tangibles in the commercials..like I said fun commercials not based in fact. I don't hate Apple,I think their great at what they do,I'm just not one of their fans and I've alway been objective about both products. I'm very happy that you love your MAC, variety is the spice of life. :-)