Mozilla: Apple undermines the Internet

Man, you gotta love a good buzz phrase. And that’s a good one. It comes from this:

When Mozilla CEO John Lilly lit into Apple for using its software update utility to push Safari to Windows users, he knew he was going to get a rise out of Apple fans.

"I wasn't surprised by the reaction," said Lilly yesterday, talking about the criticism he has received from many online who took exception to his calling Apple's use of the utility "a bad practice" that "ultimately undermines the safety of the Internet."

"When you put Mozilla users and Apple users together, sometimes they poke at each other with sharp sticks," said Lilly. "But I would hope it's not about seeing everything through a partisan lens. This isn't about that. It's not even about [Apple] using the Updater as their distribution channel. It's just about the promise that people make when you provide a security update."

"Apple is a very hard organization to get critical of," he said. "There's always an outpouring of defensive comments.

"Actually, I'm really encouraged by that. It shows the participatory nature of the Internet," Lilly added. "This is a subtle nuanced issue, but this isn't us vs. them."

"The world is a complex place," said Lilly. "There are new offerings on the Internet all the time, and we're all trying to figure out together how to be respectful of users."

This time, though, he made it clear that he thought Apple had stepped over the line. And he was unrepentant for taking on the company. "I think they've undermined the work that we're doing on security and updates," he said.

So we’re sort of beating and “old issue” to death, some might argue. Except that Apple is still pushing its woefully inadequate, buggy, and insecure browser on users in exactly the same manner. I don’t mind being tiring on this issue: Apple’s wrong and they need to stop doing this.

Discuss this Article 76

Lindy
on Aug 8, 2008
""The genius of this is that it's completely reusable," said Dino Dai Zovi, a well-known security researcher and author. "They have attacks that let them load chosen content to a chosen location with chosen permissions. That's completely game over." Tears run down my face this is so funny!!!
Lindy
on Aug 8, 2008
Next Apple commercial.... Mac guy: I am a Mac. Pc guy: I am a PC Mac guy; Hahahahahahahahhahhahahhah get away from me.
Lindy
on Aug 8, 2008
Chage this lame @r$$e blog to... www.winwasneversupersiteiamofjeslousofsteve.com Ok I had enough fun. Peace brothers, and I would back my stuff if I were you:)
mikegalos@msn.com
on Aug 8, 2008
Lindy That was the silliest article in a while. Save yourself the embarassment of endorsing it. We expect this sort of stuff from Ocean. The article essentially says that Microsoft should "innovate" by dumping Windows, switching to Unix and cloning X windows... It's silly even by a Linux fan standard. (Oh, and If you read the linked article about the exploit it actually says this mysterious attack method works against all platforms and that nobody's actually seen a description of how it actually works. Unless some real info comes out about it, think of it as the security equivalent of the articles that seem to show up every few months on how somebody's invented a perpetual motion machine.)
subzerohitman721
on Aug 8, 2008
@ Lindy, First of all, this is completely off topic and makes you come off like a troll. Second, any OS can be overhauled. If they could completely overhauled security on XP with service pack 2, looks like Microsoft will have do it again with Vista SP2. These things happen with technology with unforseen angles of attack. Remember these products are made by human beings and we aren't close to perfect. There is however a huge difference between a new unforseen exploit and an existing exploit and ignorance of the carpet bomb attack being ignored by Apple. Not to mention leaving millions of their new customers vulnerable to an attack for months and months. Unlike Apple, Microsoft has acknowledge that they are aware of this and working on the problem. Back to the topic: The Mozilla CEO has the right to express himself. Its not just Lilly, there are several App store developers being critical of Apple. In an article on PC World addressing the concerns of those developers. http://www.pcworld.com/article/149560/developers_to_apple_be_more_transp... Its an issue of communication as we addressed in several other commentary. Its a legit criticism and I'm puzzled why there is so much resistance to these concerns. As a customer this would turn me away from a company who doesn't answer these criticisms. Its one of the top 10 reasons why I haven't purchased a new Mac. They need to work better with developers. They should be more forthcoming about security. In short, all companies have to constantly be working on security. Its a constant work in progress.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Aug 8, 2008
Subzero Actually, Microsoft said they're aware of the report and are waiting to see technical details. They can't be working on it because nobody's said what it actually is!
DRWAM
on Aug 8, 2008
Thanks guys. I was really looking for TV or good video. I clicked on MacBreak Weekly and listened to the first 10 minutes of not one thing about computers while they were BSing = boredom central. They sounded as if they were having fun, but they sure did beg me to tune out, stat. I didn't google as I figured that it was faster to ask someone that knows where and what it is, rather than search trough 1 million, mostly useless google hits.
johnpapola
on Aug 8, 2008
@Mike, I've decided I'm not going to attack anyone's character anymore... no matter how much they deserve it. You should try it sometime.
tayme
on Aug 8, 2008
I see that Lindy is just as bonchy as Ocean...I remember good old bonch getting all wet and sticky in the pants like that several times when things like that came out. We have our new bonch twins!!! --tayme
Lindy
on Aug 8, 2008
Microsoft Mikey, its not the link that Ocean posted, its another one genius. It was linked from Ocean article but I read yesterday when it came after the announcement at BlackHat. Its probably a blocked site at Microsoft. Starwars boy, if you think Paul bashing Apples browser because Safari security issues, quoting a five month old article, "is off topic" compared to Microsoft's complete operating system being totally hackable....then are you a bigger Tard than your fairy tale avatar. If that paper from those two engineers, from big name companies, pans out, then Microsoft better spend 300 billion on advertising because that kind of news right before they launch their "no Vista does not suck" media blitz is REALLY bad timing. Really Bad.
feralboy
on Aug 8, 2008
@Gorath and Dipsh T Admin, Thanks for the heads up on QT Lite...I will be checking into it this evening!
Snakedoctor1
on Aug 8, 2008
http://taossa.com/index.php/2008/08/07/impressing-girls-with-vista-memor... You can download their entire paper, slides they used and sample code. These are not two 22 year Romanian hackers trying to stick it to Microsoft, and promote their distro of Linux. These are security engineers from two companies that do well supporting or selling Microsoft products, IBM and VMware.
tayme
on Aug 8, 2008
I should probably apoloize to all of the decent regulars here for my outburst...Lindy is certainly what Paul has in mnd when he uses iCabal...and Ocean is just anti-MS in regards to anything... he/she claims that the only Apple product she/he owns is an iPod, so maybe not iCabal. Those types just get under my skin in the worst way. They are obviously either poorly or un-educated in the technology world. --tayme
johnpapola
on Aug 8, 2008
...it is pretty ridiculous that Paul is blogging about an article from March, though. Heh. I just noticed that. LAME.
Snakedoctor1
on Aug 8, 2008
So what is an "iCabal"? Is it like a "Wintard" but with a secure OS? Yeah Tayme you are such a mental giant. I pushed your little red button in what 1, 2 posts. Predictable. I will leave you ladies to your Microsoft circle jerk.
johnpapola
on Aug 8, 2008
I'm gonna throw the relentless apple bashers a bone... http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/1190-sour-apple-how-an-apple-ad-sets-... Here's an Apple ad that really does stretch the truth.
shark47
on Aug 8, 2008
"Lindy is certainly what Paul has in mnd when he uses iCabal..." It's the Vandil/bonch (preseton) duo back in action again. Snake, I thought you were gone for good? It's like the bonch triplets now.
subzerohitman721
on Aug 9, 2008
Star Wars Boy? Tard? Is that the best you can do? Are the rants in here reduced to elementary school insults? Wow, thats hilarious. So Lindy has no substance in the rants so now attacking me like a Republican. Typical and not really a good insult. Why don't you leave the insults to the professionals? Thats sad when Triumph: The Insult Comic Dog sounds better at making insults. Maybe we're striking a nerve here? Vista's base keeps going up, XP sales continue, and yet the percieved "iCabal" continues the slander campaign. You know I could resort to all kinds of name calling, but I'll take a page from Paul. I'll take the high road. Have a great weekend everybody!
tayme
on Aug 9, 2008
@Snake - you pushed my button only if you were logging on as Lindy. If that's the case, I feel bad for you feeling the need to hide behind multiple personalities in a forum like this. If you have been here long, then you know that I am usually reasonable...just get a little tired of the childish rantings af a small group of the readers on both sides. Me, I am pro-MS and pro-Apple...so, you go ahead and live inside your little dream world where you think that you made a real impact on my life because of a blog post... --tayme
Waethorn
on Aug 9, 2008
@All the Apple apologists: On one of the iPhone 3G commercials, there's a demo shot of downloading email attachments ("twice as fast"). In the one ad (I believe one of the Canadian ones), the attachment is a ZIP file. So how is it that a ZIP file automatically turns into a Pages document just by tapping it? Just wondering is all. Does the iPhone even include support of ZIP files? Also, just so you know, the Canadian commercials don't say "twice as fast", just "really fast". I already get "really fast" on my EVDO Moto Q, and since HSDPA isn't available around here, the iPhone 3G ISN'T "really fast".
johnpapola
on Aug 9, 2008
@Waethorn, iWork documents I believe are actually a package bundle containing the xml and related content such as images. When you email them, mail.app and entourage (I believe) automatically zip them and then unzip then on receipt. It seems to be something designed to avoid file corruption and happens entirely in the background. I believe the iPhone essentially inherits all the file format support that's built in to OSX and exposed via the finder, quicktime and preview. In the Northern NJ/ New York City area I get really nice speed. When using NetShare and my macbook, I've actually clocked 100KB/sec in real download speed over 3G. EVDO may be better, but this feels pretty good in my area. Obviously, the performance is subject to the coverage and quality of the signal.
Ocean
on Aug 9, 2008
Vista's security has been thoroughly broken. >>It’ll be interesting to see how Microsoft spins this. The paper has huge implications and fixing these issues is going to be tricky. Given how long we can expect Vista to be around I expect that Microsoft will try to fix things in a future service pack. These issues are going to haunt Windows for years.<< http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=2387 http://www.neowin.net/news/main/08/08/08/vista39s-security-rendered-comp...
Waethorn
on Aug 9, 2008
"I believe the iPhone essentially inherits all the file format support that's built in to OSX and exposed via the finder, quicktime and preview." Except that the iPhone doesn't support ZIP files natively unless they have a .Pages prefix before the .Zip extension. Seems kind of stupid, when as a security best practice, Office documents should be compressed prior to attaching to email. I doubt the iPhone supports .XLS.Zip files....Office OpenXML files are already compressed in ZIP format anyway, but does the iPhone support those? @Ocean: Go away. Nobody cares. For someone that proclaims so prominantly that Vista is a failure for security, for you to say that you like XP is just dumb, and contradicts your statements that Windows should be terminated. If you're referring to the context that objects are automatically trusted, it'll just lead to mandatory code signing in the future. Much like how Office macro's are no longer allowed by default without an Authenticode signature (which costs money). Much like how ActiveX controls now prompt more than once before being executed. It's yet another reason not to use Java anyway. Code signing is extremely easy to fake with a Java applet. Not so with ActiveX. Obviously, since these apparent security issues affect any operating system core, it's up to every OS developer to patch them. BTW: How's life ever since Joe Wilcox banned you off his site?
Ocean
on Aug 9, 2008
Who is Joe Wilcox????
Ocean
on Aug 9, 2008
I've never, ever posted on his site.
anonymous
on Oct 17, 2008
[...] johnpapola made an excellent post today on their site [...]...

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