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Newsflash: Europe to get Windows 7 'E' versions sans IE

Jun. 11, 2009 Paul Thurrott | Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows

So, I can confirm that this is true: there will be an E edition for every Windows 7 SKU that removes IE and will be made available in Europe only. Apparently, CNET got ahold of a leaked memo somehow:

Microsoft plans to remove Internet Explorer from the versions of Windows 7 that it ships in Europe, CNET News has learned.

"To ensure that Microsoft is in compliance with European law, Microsoft will be releasing a separate version of Windows 7 for distribution in Europe that will not include Windows Internet Explorer," the software maker said in the memo. "Microsoft will offer IE8 separately and free of charge and will make it easy and convenient for PC manufacturers to preinstall IE 8 on Windows 7 machines in Europe if they so choose. PC manufacturers may choose to install an alternative browser instead of IE 8, and has always been the case, they may install multiple browsers if they wish."

The browser-less versions, dubbed Windows 7 "E", will be distributed in all members of the European Economic Area as well as Croatia and Switzerland. In addition, Microsoft will strip the browser from the Europe-only "N" versions of Windows 7, which also removes the Windows Media Player from the operating system and is the result of another move by Europe's antitrust authorities.

In contrast with the "N" version, though, Microsoft will not also sell a full-featured version of Windows that includes the browser.

"Microsoft will not offer for distribution in the European territory the Windows 7 product versions that contain IE, which are intended for distribution in the rest of the world," Microsoft said in the memo. "This will apply to both OEM and Retail versions of Windows 7 products."

For computer makers that want it, Microsoft will offer a free "IE 8 pack" that allows them to add the browser back in. It's a little more complicated for consumers who buy a retail copy of Windows 7. Because the operating system lacks a browser, there's not a direct way to go to Microsoft's Web site to download one. Microsoft aims to make it as easy as possible for folks in Europe to get the browser, though, and plans to offer it via CD, FTP and retail channels, according to a person a familiar with the situation.

"Microsoft is focused on ensuring that Windows 7 is a successful worldwide release available to the broadest number of consumers, including those in Europe," The software maker said in the memo. "We believe that we need to release these E versions to address the preliminary legal views communicated to us in the EU. We are informing OEMs of these plans now so that we can work together to meet our shared goal to have Windows 7 broadly available for a holiday launch."

The software maker says in the memo that it is only stripping the browser from Windows 7 and won't do the same with older operating systems, or with the virtualized version of Windows XP that is part of the free "XP mode" download.

Discuss this Article 118

RobertC
on Jun 11, 2009
The EU should go to hell. Honestly, they just hate the idea of profit. In fact, they are profit & business killers with their massive tax takes from Microsoft and Intel. A modern OS cannot be sold with a browser - what is this world coming to? Like the previous failed N versions of XP, consumers will not buy it. The EU Commission obviously lives in a parallel universe to the people it claims to represent. It is simply a de facto protector of subpar competitors who think competition is about whingeing to a regulator. What a joke.
Grannyville
on Jun 11, 2009
So how would that make people adopt a different browser without having a browser to get different browser? Also, does anyone know any accurate measurements of the market shares that each browser has at the moment?
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jun 11, 2009
Robert, You have it wrong. They don't hate profit. They just like the idea of an EU member produced product getting an edge. They'd be quite happy with Opera Software ASA making a profit. As with many recent suits about "anti-competitive" behavior, the issue isn't the benefit of the consumer, it's the benefit of the non-competitive corporation. If the consumer is harmed (as with the N and E versions of Windows) to help a corporation that can't produce a viable product, that's the price they're willing to have their citizens pay for keeping that constituant's corporation profitable.
shark47
on Jun 11, 2009
Now we shall see Opera's marketshare go through the roof. "The EU should go to hell. Honestly, they just hate the idea of profit. In fact, they are profit & business killers with their massive tax takes from Microsoft and Intel." What are you talking about? All the major innovation in the world happens in the EU countries. What has the US contributed in the last 10 years?
kenmcnamee
on Jun 11, 2009
What isn't clear is whether Microsoft is completely removing all the IE bits from the ISO or just removing the IE GUI as an application in the default install. Microsoft has already made it possible to uninstall the IE application from the installed features list.
Grannyville
on Jun 11, 2009
While on the topic of web browsers, I'm trying out Safari 4 for Windows for the past few days. (something has broke my IE) I'm quite happy with Safari with the new look it has. I much prefer it Firefox or Chrome. Though, it does suffer from the odd crash every now and again. I'm sure that will be fixed eventually. I highly recommend people to try.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jun 11, 2009
In other IE 8 related news, Microsoft is donating 8 meals to Feeding America (http://www.FeedingAmerica.org) for every copy of IE 8 downloaded from the Browser for the Better site from June 8, 2009 through August 8, 2009. See: http://www.BrowserForTheBetter.com
tayme
on Jun 11, 2009
Anybody want to bet that nest the EU will say that still isn't good enough and tell Microsoft that they need to add some sort of vehicle for the users to easily select the browser of thier choice, download it, and install it? --tayme
WebGuy3000
on Jun 11, 2009
The whole thing's idiotic. Why stop at browsers and media players? How about email clients. Shouldn't consumers have the choice of email clients? That shouldn't be part of the operating system, right? Morons.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jun 11, 2009
WebGuy Why do you think they'd stop at email clients? Why should the consumer have to use the Windows thread manager or the Windows virtual memory manager. Why, Microsoft should just ship an empty package and let the consumer pick each of the thousands of components that support all the APIs. Mind bogglingly, that's not too far from what one "expert" suggested in his testimony at the DOJ hearings. He actually DID suggest that the only thing that should be sold in an "Operating System Product" was the bare microkernal and that window management, graphics engine, GUI and even memory, security and process management should be options left up to the consumer. And he was a DOJ "expert witness" in operating systems.
gorath
on Jun 11, 2009
webguy, the email client has already been stripped out of Win7. But, back to the main point, this is just fracking insane. How are private system builders meant to get their hands on any browser now? Thanks, EU, for pissing off your people AGAIN. I am sick and tired of the EU meddling about in our lives - ever since the UK joined (and before, honestly) they have had more power than sense should allow over our day to day matters.
gorath
on Jun 11, 2009
MikeGalos, was that guy, by any chance, a Linux die-hard? I've seen presentations of fairly interesting tech, which have been let down by rabid anti-microsoft comments. Any person who has such innate hate for another company's products should not be allowed in a decision making role. I mean, I can understand not liking, or not approving - fair enough, but some go out of their way to shout line after line of hate. If they were referring to a racial or social minority they would have been arrested.
shark47
on Jun 11, 2009
"He actually DID suggest that the only thing that should be sold in an "Operating System Product" was the bare microkernal and that window management, graphics engine, GUI and even memory, security and process management should be options left up to the consumer." By the time the EC is done with Microsoft, it looks like that's what Windows will be.
academicpcs
on Jun 11, 2009
I think Microsoft is making a very smart move into making its operating system as marketable as possible in Europe. It is sad that the UE won't allow IE8 with Windows 7. I believe Microsoft's solution to the problem will overall help make windows 7 the most sold and used operating system throughout the world.
panache1023
on Jun 11, 2009
Mike, The Windows Thread Manager is a critical part of the operating system. The Browser isn't....You could still use the computer WITHOUT the browser...although you may not want to, that's a whole different story. And it would be nice if I got to choose my Windowing Manager...in THEORY. I think the Windows windowing manager does an OK job..it definitely does the trick No longer directed towards Mike... And once again isn't the about BUNDLING the OS and the Browser together? Not that MS was providing a browser, but that it was intimately tied into the OS? I haven't tried it in Vista or in 7, but if I open an Explorer window, and type in something like "http://www.winsupersite.com" does it use IE (not the process, but the components) to browse to the site? Not saying I think it's right or wrong..just saying.... Ok, I'll go on the record. I think that the whole bundling of IE into Windows was actually a good idea. I remember the first time I typed in a URL into an Explorer window and the window morphed into an IE window, all while still running in explorer.exe...I thought it was so cool and such a great idea.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jun 11, 2009
gorath Actually he's a very well known Computer Science professor. The key point not being that there are bozos out there but that of all the experts that could have been picked, he was the one the DOJ did pick to teach the court how operating system products should be sold.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jun 11, 2009
Shark "By the time the EC is done with Microsoft, it looks like that's what Windows will be." Nah. Just the versions legally sold in EU member nations. I'd imagine the result would be a very big growth in tourism to non-EU nations right after that (and a surprising increase in Windows sales in some neighboring countries that somehow exceed their total PC installed base)
Waethorn
on Jun 11, 2009
The problem with this is of course, Europe and Korea. For anybody complaining about the many different versions of Windows, if Microsoft didn't have to make the N, K, KN, and now the E versions, we'd have far fewer versions of Windows to choose from. At least this will prevent them from having to bundle unnecessary third-party garbage (ie. Opera and Chrome) with Windows. "Why stop at browsers and media players? How about email clients. Shouldn't consumers have the choice of email clients? That shouldn't be part of the operating system, right?" Actually, that's already the way Windows 7 is designed. It has no email client bundled with it. Instead Windows Live Mail is available via download. I'd have to say, that the moment someone with a shell replacement starts lobbying the EU, Windows won't be Windows anymore. Once major manufacturers like Dell and HP start installing Windows Live software and other packages from Microsoft anyway (Dell already does and HP is starting to), it'll make all of the plaintiffs like like a bunch of crybaby sissies.
WebGuy3000
on Jun 11, 2009
What do you want to bet that if companies like Symantec and McAfee were European-based, you'd suddenly see some action against the anti-virus thingie mentioned in the earlier post?
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jun 11, 2009
panache, "I haven't tried it in Vista or in 7, but if I open an Explorer window, and type in something like "http://www.winsupersite.com" does it use IE (not the process, but the components) to browse to the site?" Nope. It doesn't do that any more. It spawns off a copy of whatever you have installed as your default browser and passes the URL over to it.
chipwinter
on Jun 11, 2009
This actually may be a good move for Microsoft, in that it won't let the not-so-great IE8 bring down the good impressions of Windows 7.
shark47
on Jun 11, 2009
One of the side effects of this is more crapware. In any case, if OEMs get to choose which browser to bundle, Firefox might end up a big loser. Google and Microsoft have more money and can negotiate deals with OEMs to get their browser onto PCs. I doubt that this will increase Opera's marketshare in the long run, which is what this entire investigation was all about.
gorath
on Jun 11, 2009
@ Panache - Windows 7 just opens up whatever default browser you've chosen. So if you've got Firefox selected as your default browser, then typing www.google.com in windows explorer will open up a new firefox window (or tab) and navigate to that adress. This also happens in Vista, and in XP since IE7.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jun 11, 2009
panache "The Windows Thread Manager is a critical part of the operating system." He'd argue that having a thread manager is optional (you could go single threaded and single tasking and make the rest optional and it would still be an OS) The fact that every software product would have to come in an almost infinite number of combinations to support all the possible configurations of underlying OS services wasn't seen as, apparently, a problem that needed to be solved in whatever universe he was testifying from.
techfan
on Jun 11, 2009
Opera is an innovative browser. Wasn't Opera the first browser to use tabs? And I think it has brought new things to the browser playground but the cold reality is that people aren't interested in the browser. Firefox is the second-most used browser in Windows (I think), not Opera. Those that switched to Firefox surely knew about Opera, but decided to go with another browser. I have tried Opera but didn't like. I went back to IE8. Mozilla with all its whining about Microsoft lost me as a potential user of its browser. Google is also on the same whine cruise that Opera and Mozilla are in, but I do like Chrome.
Waethorn
on Jun 11, 2009
"If the consumer is harmed (as with the N and E versions of Windows) to help a corporation that can't produce a viable product, that's the price they're willing to have their citizens pay for keeping that constituant's corporation profitable." I guess that's solves the question as to who pays more taxes in Europe: consumers or businesses. "How are private system builders meant to get their hands on any browser now?" They can sign up to Microsoft's OEM System Builder program to download OEM packages for components like Windows Live and such. It's free to sign up. "I am sick and tired of the EU meddling about in our lives - ever since the UK joined (and before, honestly) they have had more power than sense should allow over our day to day matters." Since the execution of Hussein, and the fall of Bush, there's gotta be at least one oppressive governing empire left in the world.... ;) "He actually DID suggest that the only thing that should be sold in an "Operating System Product" was the bare microkernal and that window management, graphics engine, GUI and even memory, security and process management should be options left up to the consumer." "By the time the EC is done with Microsoft, it looks like that's what Windows will be." Consumers will be taken back to the "stone age of computers" by the EU. "I haven't tried it in Vista or in 7, but if I open an Explorer window, and type in something like "http://www.winsupersite.com" does it use IE (not the process, but the components) to browse to the site?" It's a separate process. It has been since IE7 on XP. Typing a link just opens your default browser. IE6 was integrated though. "I remember the first time I typed in a URL into an Explorer window and the window morphed into an IE window, all while still running in explorer.exe...I thought it was so cool and such a great idea." That's part of why Windows XP was a major security disaster after launch. It started back with Windows 95, IE4, and the Active Desktop pack (which integrated IE and Windows Explorer). Nice idea. But it doesn't work in the real world.
Ross R
on Jun 11, 2009
If Windows doesn't come with a browser, and OS X does, is Apple competing unfairly by including something the other is not allowed to have? Perhaps Apple, MS, all the millions of Linux makers.. should provided completely stripped down OSes for the EU, the only program included being a client produced by the EU that lists every possible browser, e-mail client, media client, and after clicking and selecting which ones you want will download and install them... That way all is fair for everyone, and everyone in the EU is unhappy as they now have a bunch of work to do before they can use their new system.... If one company can't included something NO company should... and when it comes to a browser, eeks. How about a situation where you boot up IE pops up with a page with several alternate browsers, if you choose to install a different one it installs it then goes "Now that you have installed a browser IE8 will uninstall unless you wish to keep it" The EU is just getting silly
Waethorn
on Jun 11, 2009
Quick trivia question: Did IE6 SP2 (in XP SP2) isolate IE processes from Windows Explorer processes, or was it still integrated? I know it was integrated pre-SP2.
gorath
on Jun 11, 2009
Hang on, does this not set a precedent that all other OS distributions must ALSO be shipped without browsers? How can it possibly be one rule for one, another for all others? Does Apple now have to ship Snow Leopard without a browser? Does Ubuntu (and Lindows, Mint, RedHat, etc etc etc) have to ship their next version without firefox? What about the various distros of Unix? At least in Debian-based Linux, you can use apt-get to download and install a broswer Everyone else is screwed by this decision. ESPECIALLY the constituents of the EU
gorath
on Jun 11, 2009
@ Waethorn... ""How are private system builders meant to get their hands on any browser now?" They can sign up to Microsoft's OEM System Builder program to download OEM packages for components like Windows Live and such. It's free to sign up." I realise that, Wae, but I was thinking about hobbyist builders, who build their own machines. If Apple doesn;t have to comply with this crap, then they're bound to get more converts. Who would buy a windows box that can't get online, instead of a mac that can? This balance NEEDS to be sorted Man, I'm freaking steaming right now. I honestly can't believe they've done this. WANKERS
WebGuy3000
on Jun 11, 2009
@gorath: "Hang on, does this not set a precedent that all other OS distributions must ALSO be shipped without browsers? How can it possibly be one rule for one, another for all others?" As someone around here is fond of pointing out, when you have a monopoly, you have to play by a different set of rules then when you don't. Simple as that.
meason
on Jun 11, 2009
lets see them say Itunes can't be bundled with a new Mac.....
chipwinter
on Jun 11, 2009
Logically it only makes sense that if Microsoft can't ship their Operating System with their browser, then Apple shouldn't be allowed to do the same. But ... I'm wondering if Microsoft's monopolistic behavior in the past might be cause for this?
Waethorn
on Jun 11, 2009
"I realise that, Wae, but I was thinking about hobbyist builders, who build their own machines." Well 2 things: 1) They have to buy retail software for their own use. - or - 2) They can sign up as a business and buy OEM packaged software from an Authorized Microsoft Distributor, and get support and downloads from Microsoft via the OEM System Builder webpage, but under the terms of use, they are required to sell any systems that they build with OEM software.
scottbakertemp
on Jun 11, 2009
I'm sure 7E will sell just as many copys as VistaN or XPN. However many people are in the EU. So I guess what........ 10 copys?
gorath
on Jun 11, 2009
Waethorn, even if they buy a retail copy of windows, they STILL don't get a browser. Quit being a jackass. @scottbakertemp : The difference is, windows "N" editions were optional - and very very few people bothered with them - or even knew about them. These "E" versions are the ONLY versions of windows 7 we'll be able to buy, OEM or retail GODDAMIT
Waethorn
on Jun 11, 2009
Microsoft should send a bill to the EU for extra costs associated with engineering a different version.
resplendent
on Jun 11, 2009
I suppose MS could simply make IE8 an optional Windows Update component for those who want it in the E version. At least it'd be readily obtainable. (but I guess they'd rather do their little "Pack") This goes without saying that the entire EU proceeding has been utterly ludicrous.
Waethorn
on Jun 11, 2009
....nail the bill right on the creaky wooden doors of the EU HQ (ala Martin Luther).
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jun 11, 2009
scottbakertemp The difference is that the N versions were sold alongside the non-N versions so the consumers had a choice if they didn't want to be "protected". In this case, the "No IE" version would be the only version sold in the EU. I'd expect a very high percentage of users would get the "IE 8 add-on pack" and virtually no OEM would send a computer out the door without it so the end result might be the same except for the inconvenience.
ropp29
on Jun 11, 2009
Insane. A web browser is an absolutely critical part of the computing experience these days. Also, anyone with the slightest bit of computing knowledge can easily go online using IE and find Firefox or whatever. As some other have said, why aren't these stupid regulators going after Apple? They bundle all kinds of stuff with OSX. Why don't they have to drop Safari and iLife? iLife should be regarded as particularly egregious if bundling software is monopolistic. Its a total double standard. Apple's business practices are infinitely more monopolistic than Microsoft's, and yet Microsoft is the company that governments constantly demonize.
ropp29
on Jun 11, 2009
I agree with Waethorn that Microsoft should send the bill to the EU.
Waethorn
on Jun 11, 2009
"Waethorn, even if they buy a retail copy of windows, they STILL don't get a browser." And retail sales are extremely low. You're talking about a niche market here, much like how Opera is making their argument. Obviously this is a fairly new situation, so I'm guessing Microsoft will probably put something like FTM into Windows so that users have some way of downloading IE. If they have to charge users extra for an additional CD purchase with IE on it, they should do it. AND they should explain the situation and let consumers decide what to do about the EU. The EU talks about giving consumers a choice here, so if Microsoft wants to rally consumers behind them against the EU's restrictions, then I say let them.
shark47
on Jun 11, 2009
"The difference is, windows "N" editions were optional - and very very few people bothered with them - or even knew about them. These "E" versions are the ONLY versions of windows 7 we'll be able to buy, OEM or retail GODDAMIT " They can make it available as part of Windows Update. I think Microsoft did this to avoid having to delay the Win 7 release in Europe.
Waethorn
on Jun 11, 2009
"Microsoft is the company that governments constantly demonize." Alternatively, it's also the operating system that most governments choose too. At least you can say that Microsoft is listening to customers. Although to use an old adage: you can't please everyone.
gorath
on Jun 11, 2009
Wae, windows retails sales are small, but significant numbers. but regardless, most hobbyist builders buy OEM disks (although I honestly don't know what the legal status of that is in the UK - as far as I know, it's all above board - if you buy it with system-level components)
gorath
on Jun 11, 2009
Shark, if they make it available by windows update, they'll probably get slammed for that too, because it's not actually updating anything currently on the machine.
gorath
on Jun 11, 2009
Wae, shove over and make some room, I'm coming to Canada, I've had enough of Europe (and I hear the mountain biking is awesome on the west coast) ;)
chipwinter
on Jun 11, 2009
There will be doubters to Ropp, who wrote: "Apple's business practices are infinitely more monopolistic than Microsoft's. Well, here are some examples: - Paul wrote earlier this year that Apple rejected Opera for the iPhone (the fact that Opera didn't actually submit it to Apple shouldn't matter here) - There's been a lot of talk of how Apple is going to sue Palm for Pre's multi-touch - There's been lots of chatter of how Apple's going to break Pre's sync with iTunes. I'm sure there are infinitely more examples.
Waethorn
on Jun 11, 2009
"although I honestly don't know what the legal status of that is in the UK - as far as I know, it's all above board - if you buy it with system-level components" It isn't actually. OEM software couldn't be just sold with components since shortly after XP SP2 was released. The SBLA (System Builder License Agreement) states that you have to preinstall the OS on a complete computer using the OEM Preinstallation Kit, and that the system is meant to be sold. It is not for internal use for the system builder. If you open an OEM package, you abide by those terms, otherwise it's not a legal license. If somebody wants Microsoft software for "business" use for their "system builder business" they should buy an Action Pack Subscription instead. It includes a lot more software, but also costs more. It's also a yearly subscription that you have to resubscribe to in order to continue using the software. And it's perfectly legal to use for anybody running a business that "builds systems with, resells systems with, consults about, or otherwise recommends or sells Microsoft software". It's about $45,000-50,000 worth of software licenses for about $300US a year. Otherwise, it's retail software only. Microsoft makes that clear on the licensing section on the OEM System Builder website - and it's specifies these requirements for DIY'ers. Also, since you can't transfer OEM licenses from one computer to another (a motherboard counts as another computer, even if it's in the same chassis), the retail one is the one DIY'ers SHOULD buy because it includes transfer rights.

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