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Problem with Zune was Toshiba’s fault, not Microsoft’s

Jan. 5, 2009 Paul Thurrott | Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows

As I suspected, and mentioned on last week’s podcast, the driver problem that dogged Zune 30 devices on December 31, 2008 was, in fact, Toshiba’s fault and not Microsoft’s. I assume all those anti-Microsoft rants will be adjusted accordingly.

After doing some poking around in the source code for the Zune's clock driver (available free from the Freescale website), I found the root cause of the now-infamous Zune 30 leapyear issue that struck everyone on New Year's Eve.

The Zune's real-time clock stores the time in terms of days and seconds since January 1st, 1980. When the Zune's clock is accessed, the driver turns the number of days into years/months/days and the number of seconds into hours/minutes/seconds. Likewise, when the clock is set, the driver does the opposite.

The Zune frontend first accesses the clock toward the end of the boot sequence. Doing this triggers the code that reads the clock and converts it to a date and time.

As Sebastian V. notes in an email (thanks for the heads-up), “Apparently, the Zune 30 was not the only device which had the Y2K9 issue. Also Toshiba Gigabeat S30 and S60 have had the same problem. Both Microsoft's and Toshiba's devices share similar hardware, including the Freescale MC13783 processor.” This is exactly what I suspected, since the first-gen Zune is just a rebranded (and slightly modified) Toshiba design.

Time to move on to some real news…

Discuss this Article 67

Ocean
on Jan 5, 2009
>>Problem with Zune was Toshiba’s fault, not Microsoft’s<< It's not a Toshiba Zune.
daProject
on Jan 5, 2009
Its their product - and their QA process it had to run through. The problem may have stemmed from a vendor, but ultimately MS are responsible for what passes for release.
Ocean
on Jan 5, 2009
Here's an example -- someone else produces those mats. Toyota doesn't own a rubber plant. But because they used the mats in their product, they take the hit. Same with the components in the Zune. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/09/toyota_prius_mats.html >>Time to move on to some real news<< On this site? All you do anymore is link to others peoples stuff with snarky comments. :)
aemarques
on Jan 5, 2009
So, let me get this straight: activation problems of the iPod were not Apple's fault (but actually, they were - http://www.aeroxp.org/2009/01/zune-30-bug-overinflated/), but all this is MS fault - and, in its favour, MS never said they were not! OMG...
Lindy
on Jan 5, 2009
Dam that is funny Paul!!!!!!!! Just like not all digital copies of movies in iTunes that are sold/rented come with closed captioning for the hearing impaired because the movie vendors, NOT APPLE, chooses that. But dam if someone did not FREAK OUT and call them liars:) "I assume all those anti-Microsoft rants will be adjusted accordingly." and all Microsoft apologists will blame it on Toshiba?? When the radio in your factory Ford POS goes bad, do you take it to the Ford dealership or do you call Sanyo (insert oversees maker of radio here) in Japan?? Maybe Bill and Jerry will use the indecent in their next TV spot???
Ocean
on Jan 5, 2009
It's not as if we didn't know it, but this post shows the lack of objectivity that defines Paul Thurrotts relationship with Microsoft.
Lindy
on Jan 5, 2009
@aemargues yeah because the two events were so close. One problem in a older working product that had a time bomb that caused the device to drop dead, but cleared up 24 hours later...Zune. Compared to a problem with the ATT activation servers that were brought down by crushing demand and some current iPhone owners could not update their phones or activate their new ones, phones that worked fine....for a 24-48 hour period. Yeah those compare nicely, just change out the product name and they are the same event????????
shark47
on Jan 5, 2009
Again, the only people getting worked up here are those who don't own Zunes. Paul is right. This was not Microsoft's code. Yet, Microsoft has acknowledged the problem and didn't blame anyone else for it.
Ocean
on Jan 5, 2009
>>Again, the only people getting worked up here are those who don't own Zunes. << This is a piss-poor debating tactic...
Lindy
on Jan 5, 2009
It was not a big deal, so much so that this whole thread was not even needed.
Ozric
on Jan 5, 2009
Just thought I'd quickly write a note about everything that I hate and about how bad this site is as its always biased (and I should know coz I read EVERY post). I only wish I could remember the urls for the websites of the things I DO like... maybe I could have a happier time there. No... my time is better spent here... waiting for Paul to write something so that I can point out to him (again!) that he's biased (as I've said before) towards things I don't like. -- Ozric T. Enticle
tayme
on Jan 5, 2009
Wow...you'd think that this was something important...between the bloggers like Paul and others continuing to post about it to the trolls like Ocean and others continuing to reflect upon it like it was some conspiracy that MS dumped on the world. It was a coding problem that the mainstream press decided that they needed to use to further bend the minds of the weak and uninformed. Bad press, yes...deservedly so; but worldwide problem...absolutely not. @Ocean - "On this site? All you do anymore is link to others peoples stuff with snarky comments. :)" Sounds more like what you do. Like we have been saying...an ignore function would do wonders on this site...and you getting your own blog to prop yourself up would be a good thing too. Remember, this is Paul's site...if you don't like it, move on and quit being such a child. @aemarques - The AeroXperience site has the most logical discussion of this on the web. Good information sharing as always on that site. --tayme
Ozric
on Jan 5, 2009
>>This is a piss-poor debating tactic<< That was a piss-poor debating tactic
chuckb84
on Jan 5, 2009
"As I suspected, and mentioned on last week’s podcast, the driver problem that dogged Zune 30 devices on December 31, 2008 was, in fact, Toshiba’s fault and not Microsoft’s. I assume all those anti-Microsoft rants will be adjusted accordingly." Incredible. Well, perhaps not, it's just Paul remembering who butters his toast. Now, if the issue had happened with an iPod, Paul would say nothing like this. Catch 22 (worth reading or re-reading) has a great phrase from Colonel Cathcart, "That responsibility has been delegated." This is screamingly funny, because you're supposed to know that you can delegate authority, but not responsibility. Microsoft is absolutely accountable for the failure of the Zune. I don't think this particular event was a real big deal, so it is particularly odd that Paul wants to help Microsoft duck accountability. "The buck stops here". Such an old-fashioned idea.
Ocean
on Jan 5, 2009
All those jonesing for a ignore feature should ask Penton, not Paul.
SandmanX82
on Jan 5, 2009
"...it is particularly odd that Paul wants to help Microsoft duck accountability." Where exactly was Microsoft trying to duck accountability in the first place for Paul to help them?
Ocean
on Jan 5, 2009
>>Now that many devices seem to be working again, the big question on the minds of Zune owners is, what is Microsoft going to do to make things right? There are calls for compensation such as free music (good idea), discounts on new Zunes (good intention) or free iPods (good luck).<< It cracks me up that some users would demand a iPod as compensation. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2009/01/zune-frozen-wor.html
weedmonk
on Jan 5, 2009
Wow, people are still talking about this. My w00t Zune 30 really feels special now. ;)
lotsamystuff
on Jan 5, 2009
Since the original Zune was nothing more than a rebranded Gigabeat (as Paul correctly points out), I don't see why this kind of dodge is surprising. And no, it's not a big deal. I doubt that there were any mission-critical operations affected by this one day "blackout". Move on, people. "It was a coding problem that the mainstream press decided that they needed to use to further bend the minds of the weak and uninformed." Yes, "the mainstream press", in conjunction with the Illuminati, the World Bank and the Masons don't have enough to do these days now that they've destroyed the world economy. Time to refit your tinfoil hat, my friend.
tayme
on Jan 5, 2009
@"lotsamystuff" - Putting aside the obvious unimportance of this particular (non)issue, do you truly think that CNN, Fox News, CBS, NY Times, etc. really report the news objectively? Do you really think that Hollywood does not have an agenda? If you can answer yes to either of those questions, it is you, my friend, that needs a refit. I am not taking the left or right side in this...they are all equally slanted in whatever direction that they see fit. That is why one should "consider the source" now, more than ever. --tayme
chuckb84
on Jan 5, 2009
" "...it is particularly odd that Paul wants to help Microsoft duck accountability." Where exactly was Microsoft trying to duck accountability in the first place for Paul to help them?" I apologize. Miicrosoft wasn't trying to avoid accountability, only Paul was.
shark47
on Jan 5, 2009
"I apologize. Miicrosoft wasn't trying to avoid accountability, only Paul was." And in what way is Paul to be held accountable for Zune's problems? The customer (me) bought the Zune from Microsoft, so it's Microsoft's responsibility to ensure that such bugs are fixed. Who took the blame when MacBooks exploded? Was it Apple? Or was it Sony?
chuckb84
on Jan 5, 2009
""I apologize. Miicrosoft wasn't trying to avoid accountability, only Paul was." And in what way is Paul to be held accountable for Zune's problems? The customer (me) bought the Zune from Microsoft, so it's Microsoft's responsibility to ensure that such bugs are fixed. Who took the blame when MacBooks exploded? Was it Apple? Or was it Sony?" What is it with you guys today? Forget English over the holidays? Paul is writing to say that Microsoft is not accountable for the reliability of the products that they sell. That's ridiculous, and amounts to Paul pulling an "Enderle", ie, writing something obviously stupid because of how he earns a living. What part of that is so hard to understand? To be perfectly clear, shark, we AGREE that Microsoft--and no one else---is accountable for this Zune glitch. And, since it seems necessary today, I'll repeat myself further: The actual glitch was no big deal, so it is odd that Paul is so quick to foist it all off on Toshiba. That's ridiculous, as several have noted.
BrightrevCarl
on Jan 5, 2009
I beg to differ. This is not Toshiba's product. It's Microsoft's product and they are responsible for making it work properly. You could make an argument for sharing the blame, but it's irresponsible to point the finger at Toshiba for problems with a product Microsoft released under its own brand and presumably it's own QA process.
planetarian
on Jan 5, 2009
This is really sort of a strange issue. First off, i would like to make note that this isn't even Toshiba's fault, technically; Freescale wrote the buggy driver that caused this issue, IIRC. This is somewhat akin to people blaming a computer vendor (or Windows, even, as is more often the case) for buggy drivers that got bundled with their system. Hm, that sounds familiar... sounds like one of the major factors that led to Vista's poor reputation.
shark47
on Jan 5, 2009
"What part of that is so hard to understand? To be perfectly clear, shark, we AGREE that Microsoft--and no one else---is accountable for this Zune glitch." Strangely, the same doesn't seem to apply to Microsoft's competitor in this market. Everyone from Sony to Microsoft to Infineon to AT&T is blamed for problems with its products. I guess it makes sense. The playing field was never level.
planetarian
on Jan 5, 2009
I would like to clarify, though; I'm not saying MS or Toshiba shouldn't be held accountable; just as computer vendors need to be certain the drivers/hardware they use work as they should on their systems, PMP vendors should be aware of any issues with the chipsets and drivers they pick for their devices, perhaps even moreso since there's no variation (unlike PCs). That said, there's still a limit to how aware they can really be of issues inherent in the third-party components they use. This particular bug is something I'd certainly call obscure at the very least, and one for which I would sooner not point fingers at all. Freescale missed it in their testing, Microsoft shouldn't really have to do their testing for them, but Microsoft DID choose to keep that component so they're still somewhat accountable for it in the end. I guess I'm trying to say I don't particularly understand this blame game going on here.
SandmanX82
on Jan 5, 2009
"Paul is writing to say that Microsoft is not accountable for the reliability of the products that they sell." I don't think he said that anywhere. I think he said that that bad coding was done by Toshiba, and not Microsoft. But I don't see it saying anywhere that it's not Microsoft's responsibility to ensure it's working. Maybe the anti-Microsoft rants he was referring to was to posts of people saying "even with all that money, Microsoft still can't afford to have decent programmers" (which I saw on various sites). That should be changed to "can't afford to have decent QCers" :)~
shark47
on Jan 5, 2009
"Paul is writing to say that Microsoft is not accountable for the reliability of the products that they sell." "I don't think he said that anywhere. I think he said that that bad coding was done by Toshiba, and not Microsoft. But I don't see it saying anywhere that it's not Microsoft's responsibility to ensure it's working." No, he didn't. Everyone knows it's Microsoft's responsibility to ensure that it's working. But it is ultimately Freescale's fault that the driver wasn't properly written and Freescale deserves the blame for it. This is not a case of "passing the buck". That said, this is a very, very small issue. I don't see why people are making such a big deal of it. As a Zune30 owner, I don't care about this. Why do people who don't even own a Zune care so much? If it had been permanently bricked, I sure would've been pissed off. It was dead for a day and I was impressed with the way MS handled the issue.
DRWAM
on Jan 5, 2009
I dunno. I see the different points [but who cares anyway]. But I feel that Seagate was responsible for hard drive failures in MacBooks, not Apple, so I can see Paul's point. It just bothers me that it has nothing to do with my $400 Vista laptop.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 5, 2009
You know, it's funny. I keep checking the mailbox but nobody seems to have sent me their horribly defective Zune 30. I offered to take them off the hands of all those people horrified by the one day outage every 4 years back on the 31st. Guess it's not that much of an issue.
Lindy
on Jan 5, 2009
Why stop with Toshiba? I would say the people that conceived the programmer that screwed up should be held responsible. Makes sense right??
Lindy
on Jan 5, 2009
Mike Paul said there we 17 owners and I sold mine on Craigs List or ebay, cant remember, it was about a year ago maybe less. That leaves Sharky on this site maybe he sent it via USPS and its in the mail.
planetarian
on Jan 5, 2009
I sold my black z30 to my cousin for $100 or so, shortly after i bought the z80. I miss the rather attractive dual-tone shell, kinda. I do contend that this bug was blown way out of proportion, and I don't understand why anyone bothers mudslinging for an issue that causes a media player to stop playing media for one day of 1461. that's 99.93% uptime, and it's a problem? Meh. Seems like people just want an excuse to rag on Microsoft.
tayme
on Jan 5, 2009
"That leaves Sharky on this site..." Wrong, there are 3 in my household...2-30's and an 80. I would have sent mine to mikegalos if it was a permanent brick and MS had reimbursed me...but alas, it is working. MAybe once Zune Mobile comes out and I install it on my Omnia, you can have it, mike. --tayme
gfryesc1
on Jan 5, 2009
"time to move on to some real news"? like "Put Messenger back in the tray in Windows 7 where it belongs" story? riveting.
mgayetsky
on Jan 5, 2009
I would have expected someone like Ocean to post a link where Microsoft pushes the blame onto someone like Toshiba. They didn’t. The issue is over. What exactly is at stake in a debate like this for the mac fanboys floating around out there? While some out there have attempted to analogize this to a variety of different examples (e.g. cars), I think those who have drawn parallels to Seagate and Sony are onto something. The distinction is in reporting the story, and not the essence of the product. Take, for example, the 2006 Sony battery recall. A CNET article (http://news.cnet.com/Sony-to-launch-notebook-battery-recall/2100-1044_3-...) explains that “Dell, Apple Computer, Lenovo and Sharp have also issued massive recalls for the faulty batteries shipped with their notebooks. In total, more than 8 million Sony notebook batteries worldwide have been recalled,” and further, that “Sony will cover the replacement and incidental costs, Gateway said, while Gateway will absorb the administrative costs of dealing with the situation”. In this example, the media correctly highlighted that while certain brandings of a product (Dell, Apple, and my Lenovo) were recalled, the fault lay on the producer of the product, Sony. If articles written on the Zunageddon described the product at fault as “Toshiba-produced Zunes,” or possibly “Toshiba media players S30 and S60 as well as the Zune 30,” it would have been a far different story. The parallels here are good; a common problem from one provider (Sony batteries/Toshiba drivers), that affect a range of products under different labels.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
Paul: "I assume all those anti-Microsoft rants will be adjusted accordingly." So this means you will also be updating all your anti-Apple rants from the past? You're as bad as the rest of them.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
@chuck84: "Well, perhaps not, it's just Paul remembering who butters his toast. Now, if the issue had happened with an iPod, Paul would say nothing like this." You're absolutely right. If this had been Apple's problem then Paul would be all over it like the Microsoft fanboy that he is. He doesn't bite the hand that feeds him.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
Paul and MIcrosoft are famous for blaming others when problems arise. Like the old standards, "It's not a problem with Windows but with 3rd party drivers". That one's always good for a laugh.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
Microsoft's source code is the problem. See where it says "Copyright Microsoft". And the fact that they have the source means they should have fixed it. http://pastie.org/349916
tayme
on Jan 5, 2009
@robertsjoe - How was your first day back at school after the break? --tayme
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
@tayme: Dude, you're like a broken record. School? Ever think that there's more in the world than the town you live in?
shark47
on Jan 5, 2009
"Lindy said: Why stop with Toshiba? I would say the people that conceived the programmer that screwed up should be held responsible. Makes sense right??" Not really. My parents are not responsible for the code I write. On the other hand, you cannot ask Microsoft to fix all the bugs in Firefox, iTunes, Chrome, etc. The calendar code is fairly basic and the programmer who wrote it should be fired. That doesn't mean you go after his/her parents too.
Waethorn
on Jan 5, 2009
All I can say is: :p < PPPLLLTT! My Zune 80 still works. The Zune 30 was never sold in Canada. BTW Paul: Here's a driver tip: On your Optiplex 755 the following drivers should fix the issues you have outstanding: SM Bus Controller - Intel Chipset Software Installation Utility http://downloadmirror.intel.com/16023/a08/infinst_autol.exe PCI Simple Communication Controller - Intel ME driver http://downloadmirror.intel.com/13477/eng/MEI_AMT_allOS_3.0.30.1086_PV.zip PCI Serial Port - Probably serial over LAN for Intel AMT (part of vPro) needed here. This is probably from having console redirection for VT enabled in the BIOS. Keep VT enabled, but disable console redirection to fix this if you don't need it - you probably aren't redirecting the console to a serial port. http://downloadmirror.intel.com/13935/eng/LMS_AMT_allOS_5.4.0.1065_PV.zip The latest video driver for the GMA X3100 can also be found here: http://downloadmirror.intel.com/16956/eng/GFX_Vista32_15.12.1.1608_PV_In... (x86) http://downloadmirror.intel.com/16957/eng/GFX_Vista64_15.12.1.64.1608_PV... (x64) Another tip: In Vista and later, you can go into the Resources tab of the Device Manager entry that isn't working and copy the PnP ID to paste into your favourite search engine to find out what the device is. That's a good way to at least find out what the device is, since many people post System Info logs into forums and likely someone has the same device with a driver loaded that will identify the device. You can't copy the PnP ID in Windows XP.
tayme
on Jan 5, 2009
@robertsjoe - I'm a broken record? That coming from you? Gee, I guess you are right. Ever think that there's more to life than continually bashing a OS and company that you have an illogical/immature hatred for on the site of a blogger that you have an equally illogical/immature dislike for? That, sir, is why I perceive you as an school kid. Grow up and move on. --tayme
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
Great letter from Jobs. Will be even more talked about than anything Ballmer or MS does at CES. Love it. That is until MacWorld.
mgayetsky
on Jan 5, 2009
@robertsjoe You always ignore me for some reason. I feel left out! Simple question, though - when your macbook's battery got recalled because of a bum Sony battery, was that Apple's fault or Sony's?
DRWAM
on Jan 5, 2009
When I was a surgery resident, we always blamed anesthesia/anesthesiologists:)
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
@mgayetsky: I'm sorry, mgayetsky. Don't mean to overlook you. Please don't take it personally. Re the battery, nev er blamed anyone. Shit happens. Just change it if it was recalled and that's it. Why am I going after MS on this Zune issue? Only to show how hypocritical this blog is and it's many anti-Apple posts. If Paul, mike and others can be hypocrites, so can I. Had this been Apple, Paul and other fanboys (@mikegalos I'm looking your way), would have been all over it like flies on shit. But when it's MS, the excuses come out. Apologists through and through. As @chuck84 out it, MS butters Paul's bread, so he's not even handed when dishing out negative blog posts. It's that simple.

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