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Quickie, off-the-cuff reaction to today's iPod/iTunes announcements

Sep. 9, 2008 Paul Thurrott | Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows

It's been a long day, and I still have to head out to see some folks for dinner, so I won't have time for a long write-up until tomorrow at the earliest. But here are some early reactions to what Apple announced today.

Dominant. Apple controls 73.4 percent of the market for MP3 players in the United States, roughly equivalent to IE's Web browser share. Apple has sold over 160 million iPods since 2001. And customers have downloaded over 100 million iPhone apps from the App Store in just two months. (OK, most were free.)

Incremental. It's official, folks. The iPod market is now mature. There wasn't a single major announcement at today's event. Nothing. If you think that's bad, though, look at the Zune: They had Apple right where they wanted them (i.e. with nothing cool to announce) and couldn't even pull a new device out of its hat. Sigh.

"New" iPod nano. Or as I call it, the second-generation iPod mini. Or the second coming of the first generation nano. Or Apple's version of the flash-based Zune. Whatever you call it, one thing is clear: Last year's "fattie" iPod nano was clearly not the success they were looking for. Back to the drawing boards. Oh, I do like the colors though. And the accelerometer is interesting. Why isn't it in the classic?

"New" iPod touch. OK, they lowered the price. And they added back iPhone features like a speaker and external volume toggles that quite frankly should have been there in the first place. Do we salute Apple for that? No. No, we don't.

iPod classic. Now even more classic than last year. It wasn't changed at all beyond a new 120 GB hard drive option. Yawn.

iTunes 8. Now more like Windows Media Player than ever. This is the one I need to spend the most time with, but it looks very incremental. I like that HD content is now available on the iTunes Store. Are there new HD iPod profiles out there for QuickTime now?

NBC shows are back. I love this one, and it's another example of Apple being the bad guy. A year ago, NBC left iTunes because Apple wouldn't give them the variable pricing they wanted. Apple claimed (and its closest iCabal fanatics parroted) that NBC just wanted to sell TV shows for more than $1.99. But that wasn't true: They wanted to sell older shows for just 99 cents per episode. And longer, mini-series-type shows for $2.99. Now, in the words of the New York Times, "both sides now say they got what they wanted." Put another way, Apple caved to NBC's reasonable and customer-centric demands and NBC got what it wanted. Bravo.

iPhone software update 2.1. It wasn't cool when the original iPhone 2.0 software was so buggy it made us yearn for the days of Macintosh System 6. It was equally uncool when version 2.0.1 didn't fix any of the serious problems. And it was even more uncool when 2.0.2 didn't just not fix the biggest problems, but it introduced its own new problems. Now, Apple is claiming that iPhone 2.1 will solve the problems. I don't believe them. And I'd really like to know why my iPhone isn't updating to this new version right now.

Apple TV. What? Nothin'?

Steve Jobs' health. It's unfunny when you repeat a tired joke, Mr. Jobs, but we're glad you're OK. No, we really are.

Oh, and one more thing. There was no one more thing. And that stinks. Because these announcements don't amount to much more than a cheerleading session for continued dominance.

Off to dinner. More tomorrow...

Discuss this Article 121

rickhuizinga
on Sep 9, 2008
As for the no accelerometer in the Classic: I don't think its a good idea to "shake" a hard-drive based device to invoke the shuffle songs function.
cesjr
on Sep 9, 2008
"A year ago, NBC left iTunes because Apple wouldn't give them the variable pricing they wanted. Apple claimed (and its closest iCabal fanatics parroted) that NBC just wanted to sell TV shows for more than $1.99. But that wasn't true: They wanted to sell older shows for just 99 cents per episode. And longer, mini-series-type shows for $2.99." actually, since the negotiations between apple and NBC are private, we don't know for a fact what NBC demanded.
j4m3s0n79
on Sep 9, 2008
I love that when apple shows how big and great it is (market share) it's cute and nice. When MS does it, people just say....'you bully'. I am actually intrigued by the new zune. Anything to get itunes off my system...hate that POS
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
"And customers have downloaded over 100 million iPhone apps from the App Store in just two months. (OK, most were free.)" (OK, most of the rest were tip calculators)
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Paul Actually, I think the Zune people pulled off a coup. They got new functionality and massive good will by incorporating all those new features across their back product line. And since they're not doing resale to existing customers anywhere near as much as Apple (they can't, they don't have that many) they don't lose much by canibalizing new sales with free upgrades. In short, the Zune owners got the message, "Hey, look at all this cool new stuff you can do without spending a dime. Owning a Zune is a good long-term choice. Buy lots as gifts this year!" The iPod owners got the message, "Hey, we're out of ideas but we're nano-chromatic so don't be caught with last year's colors. Retire that old iPod and buy a new one in orange. I leave it as an exercise to the reader as to which message to be sending in tough economic times when you sell a non-essential.
meason
on Sep 9, 2008
glad to see apple finally discover the album cover tile feature, but then again I guess apple just invented it. And now with genius bar they have new "Features" to promote buying DRMed music and video..... yeah
johnpapola
on Sep 9, 2008
I agree with this commentary on pretty much all counts. I also think that media companies should be allowed to price their content however they want and let the market decide. I realize that Apple is worried about taking the heat for stupid pricing instead of the content creator... but I think that's silly. I don't blame Walmart for the pricing of their DVDs (well, in that case you have to thank them for the lower prices, and curse them for the censorship). Pay-to-own video content, though I believe will remain a niche when you can get the same shows for free from ad-supported services. The video market is immensely complex and changing fast. Apple should adopt a more free-market approach to iTunes pricing and let people decide what they want to buy. We're big boys. We can decide for ourselves. As for Apple being "bad guys" with regard to NBC... I really don't see how Paul or anyone can make such a claim without access to the negotiation. Both sides have obvious incentives to say that they were on the side of consumers. This stuff, again, isn't about "bad" or "good" and I think this moralizing is getting pretty tiring.
johnpapola
on Sep 9, 2008
Oh... and I think it's pretty fair to say that the Flash Zune may really be better than the Nano now for the same price. Wifi, radio with tagging, onthego downloads. That's good stuff.
Joshu4
on Sep 9, 2008
Ya honestly, i'm also really intriged by what the new Zune software updates have to offer. Since I am a current Zune device 2.0 user, I was estatic to see that all these updates will work on my current Zune, WITHOUT having to buy a new model. It's genius, really
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
>>Or as I call it, the second-generation iPod mini. << I thought the same thing when I saw them put it up against a mini. And...the sideways thing looks uncomfortable to hold.
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
>>They got new functionality and massive good will by incorporating all those new features across their back product line. << Wouldn't that require a massive user base? I tend to think that they incurred a little good will. :D
whiplash55
on Sep 9, 2008
I can't believe all the media hype over this, non-event. The best or from my perspective worst news is the ipod touch price drop. Now my daughter is reminding me I said I'd get her one if the price was more reasonable. $179.00 for the refurb is reasonable. crap
rjohn05
on Sep 9, 2008
This was a very underwhelming event. Paul is right that the Zune folks had the perfect opportunity to launch a new zune device and blew it.
Ocean
on Sep 9, 2008
The label is wrong, but here's the Mini vs the Nano II comparison I was talking about: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ipodlounger/2843947460/
lehenbauer
on Sep 9, 2008
Microsoft has nothing to answer the iPod Touch. You can act like it's old news but there is still nothing like it, and the price drop is a big deal. Then there's the iPhone 3G. I will credit MS for not yet abandoning the first generation Zune. But it is unlikely to cause a big jump is sales, and as Paul loves to chortle about Apple on desktops, a 50% increase over very little is still very little.
dmccall
on Sep 9, 2008
This is what we were told in July: "Although Apple historically has a lower gross margins in the September quarter because of the Back-to-School promotion, Apple also added that a "new product that [it] [couldn't] discuss" would also result in lower gross-margins. Throughout the call, Oppenheimer kept throwing out phrases like "product transition," "new additions to the product line" and a little mantra that went something like, "Apple makes state of the art new products that the competition just can't match. When we do that earlier in an introduction, costs are higher." ...and what we got today was THIS? Talk about over-promising and under-delivering!
Interframe
on Sep 9, 2008
Ok Paul, I understand that you were underwhelmed about new hardware from either side, but I think Microsoft won this year in terms of just anything new. The Zune software is highly superior on both the device and PC software. Although, yeah, the content is lacking, thats something that can easily improve over time. This year was lacking anything exciting from the world of MP3 players but the new Zune update, in my honest opinion, is the most exciting thing to happen all year in this category. (I mean come, being a Zune pass subscriber and being able to download as many as songs as you want in a wi-fi hotspot! How cool is that?).
Interframe
on Sep 9, 2008
Mike: "Paul Actually, I think the Zune people pulled off a coup. They got new functionality and massive good will by incorporating all those new features across their back product line. And since they're not doing resale to existing customers anywhere near as much as Apple (they can't, they don't have that many) they don't lose much by canibalizing new sales with free upgrades. In short, the Zune owners got the message, "Hey, look at all this cool new stuff you can do without spending a dime. Owning a Zune is a good long-term choice. Buy lots as gifts this year!" The iPod owners got the message, "Hey, we're out of ideas but we're nano-chromatic so don't be caught with last year's colors. Retire that old iPod and buy a new one in orange. I leave it as an exercise to the reader as to which message to be sending in tough economic times when you sell a non-essential." You sir, are completely right. This is exactly what I'm trying to get at.. What Apple is doing to their users really looks bad compared to what Microsoft (thats right, "Micro$oft", ahem) is doing with their new and old costumers
Steve2000
on Sep 9, 2008
Oh... and I think it's pretty fair to say that the Flash Zune may really be better than the Nano now for the same price. Wifi, radio with tagging, onthego downloads. That's good stuff. Wifi: Pointless Radio: Not since the 80's On the go downloads: Useless, I'd have to be on my WIFI network and my computer is on my network.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Ocean The Zune people got massive good will despite not having a massive base that got the benefit because even people without a Zune got a good impression of the platform.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Steve2000 Wifi: I assume you think it's pointless on the iPhone and iPod Touch as well? Radio: You know, the current CIA World Factbook (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html) says there are 8,961 FM broadcast stations in the US. And that doesn't count low-power transmitters in places like gyms. Guess most of us live in the '80s. Guess you're just too cool for the room. On the go downloads: well, since, for some reason, Wifi is pointless to you, using it must be pointless as well
shark47
on Sep 9, 2008
"I thought the same thing when I saw them put it up against a mini. And...the sideways thing looks uncomfortable to hold." What sideways thing are you talking about? By the way, the pic you linked to is the 2nd gen Nano, not the Mini. "This stuff, again, isn't about "bad" or "good" and I think this moralizing is getting pretty tiring." No, it's not. You're either with Paul or with the bad guys.
shark47
on Sep 9, 2008
"Wifi: Pointless" I actually like the wireless syncing feature that was introduced last year. I don't need to take the Zune out of the dock. I do have a shuffle that I use at the gym. BTW, like doc, I injured myself badly at the gym last week and had to take a couple of days off because I couldn't get out of bed. :-)
meason
on Sep 9, 2008
when will apple innovate and give us wifi based sync. I walk into my place, it sees its home network, and looks for my pc to sync with. its really simple
tayme
on Sep 9, 2008
mikegalos@msn.com - September 9, 2008 - 62 posts between 8:53 AM and 10:14 PM. Thats 4.6 posts per hour for ~13.5 hours....GET A LIFE, MAN!!! --tayme
subzerohitman721
on Sep 9, 2008
Wow, what a coup for Microsoft! Nothing new from Apple worth mentioning. iTunes 8... yada, yada, yada. Slightly modified iPod Touch, not so great. Does Zune need an answer to the Touch, not if they are doing a good enough job with the Zune. The touch is nice, but the equivalent video iPod and Zune equivalent is good enough. Borrowing from the Zune's design, huge coup for the Zune Team. Apple fumbled with the last Nano and who do they copy? The laughed at, ridiculed, panned, and dismissed Zune. I'm laughing at this. Instead of creating something new, Apple goes back to stealing. Eddie Guererro must be laughing at this. (R.I.P.) The only thing noteworthy was that Apple finally caved to NBC. Thank the Lord! Especially with the new Knight Rider coming and other NBC content that I wanted, that was the only thing. Compared to the radio tagging, not as good. Hopefully people will finally take a harder much more comprehensive look at Zune. Trust me, I am strongly considering it. Now we need a iPod to Zune transition guide. Paul?
tayme
on Sep 9, 2008
@subzero - Nice WWF play there... --tayme
johnbaxter
on Sep 9, 2008
dmccall, September isn't over. Is there another announcement, of other things, coming? I don't know. And even if there are other things, there aren't many selling days. My hunch is that there are other things and they may not appear this quarter. And why did this event have to be at Yerba Buena Center? It was an Apple auditorium magnitude event.
shark47
on Sep 9, 2008
Robert Mclaws has linked to a post that hints at more XBox/Zune related news in the next few days. Of course, it's all rumors at this point. The electric blue Zune looks pretty good. Advertising, Microsoft - that's what will sell Zunes.
daveinla
on Sep 9, 2008
I'm glad Apple went back to the original Nano form which made it look much sleeker. And now it is even more so with its shape, materials and colors. The accelerometer to change the view is great too. As always one small ti stay ahead while the competition tries to catch-up. BTW, the 2.1 firmware update is for the iPod touch not the iPhone, hence the non update. Mike, by seeing your comment, you don't have or use an iphone regularly, which is a shame. You would know then what the app store is all about. And no there's no shame in using an Apple product as Paul can attest. I personally don't find the 2.0.2 firmware buggy. I never have crash or hanging moments. There is one thing I do that might explain that, it's restarting the phone once a week. It doesn't take much time and cleanse these page files that slow down the OS in the long run.
Mum
on Sep 9, 2008
"They got new functionality and massive good will by incorporating all those new features across their back product line." The new features here are mostly new ways to buy music, or did I miss something? Come on, these announcements were both boring as hell. As for the Nano design... Are we really now discussing who invented vertical screens on devices that you carry in your pocket? http://www.gameandwatchnow.com/showstockimages.php?stockid=79
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
DaveinLA Two comments 1) The tip calculator comment was an inside joke (in case you hadn't noticed, every developer in the iPhone dev program seems to have done a tip calculator - it's a pretty common joke in the iPhone community these days) 2) the 2.1 firmware update for the iPhone was announced today and ships on Friday.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
dmccall It's possible that Apple still has one more announcement day up their sleeve seeing how nothing new has come out of the Macintosh hardware side in a long time except the MacBook Air and the usual slipstreamed processor updates. The laptop line is definitely getting a bit ancient and at a minimum doesn't have the tapered edges that we're seeing as the "New!" product design language this year in the MacBook Air, iPhone 2, iPod Touch 2 and iPod Nano Generation 4 or the aluminum finish that's also part of the "New!" design language. We also haven't seen the Mac Mini revised except for processor upgrades in a while but they may also be killing it off since it seems to be on the Apple product silent death march path rather than the major revision path. They definately didn't announce anything today that would have led to that analyst warning and corporations don't do those lightly since there are pretty strict SEC rules on them. It is also possible that whatever announcement they'd planned has slipped. I don't know what the SEC rules are on timeliness on the announcements but I suspect they're more lenient about holding back a warning of a loss than of holding back increased profitability. I would suspect that whatever it was that triggered the requirement for financial analyst notice has not been killed off as I suspect that would require notification. Right now, it remains a mystery only known to Steve Jobs and his highest priests.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 9, 2008
Oops That should have read: It is also possible that whatever announcement they'd planned has slipped. I don't know what the SEC rules are on timeliness on the announcements but I suspect they're more strict about holding back a warning of a loss than of holding back increased profitability.
Karitku
on Sep 9, 2008
Actually they axed 160Gb model which was kind a slap in the face. I was expecting atleast bigger 320Gb model but now biggest model Apple offers is 120Gb which isn't enough for current music library. Sadly Microsoft just doesn't have balls to bring Zune to Europe.
scoobyclub
on Sep 9, 2008
I think Apple are in danger of overdoing the event thing. The announcements were very incremental and, as Paul rightly says, the basic MP3 player market has matured. The Touch and the iPhone are where the action is now. I do hope that they refresh at least some of their Mac line soon. Would like to see a Mac Midi. The mini is too limited, the MacPro is out of my price range and the iMac has a glossy screen that I couldn't live with. Hence I am making do even though I have the itch to spend.
WebGuy3000
on Sep 10, 2008
"No, it's not. You're either with Paul or with the bad guys." Nice. I guess I'm a bad person, because I'm not really with Paul on this one. I'm "with" whoever provides the technology that helps me be more productive in my work and more connected and fulfilled in my personal life. For me that includes tech from Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, Google, Sony, Nintendo, Canon, and a host of smaller companies that make useful and interesting products that support all of the above. To put on the blinkers and serve this whole thing up as some sort of big morality play strikes me as counterproductive and counterintuitive. But, hey, that's just me. When your only tool is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.
shark47
on Sep 10, 2008
WebGuy, if you still haven't figured it out, I was joking. The line I used was similar to one that Bush used to justify the Iraq war. Gosh! Do I have to explain everything?
bettieblu
on Sep 10, 2008
"New" iPod touch. OK, they lowered the price. And they added back iPhone features like a speaker and external volume toggles that quite frankly should have been there in the first place. Do we salute Apple for that? No. No, we don't." So the Touch had these features and then they were removed and now there back? What other mainstream non-MP3 player has a speaker? Does any Zune? The speaker is for games......duh. "Actually they axed 160Gb model which was kind a slap in the face." I am going to take a wild guess here and say someone at Apple looked at sales figures and found that the 160gig did not sell enough to justify keeping it around. It could even been costing them to do so. Lets face it right now. In 2-3 years the very most you will be hard pressed to find a HD based MP3 player at all. I bet Apple switches to all flash before anyone else. Some people will freak, but other manufactures will soon follow. To go OT, I am betting that mainstream consumer Desktop/Notebooks will start dumping HD's with moving parts, for Flash based ones in 5 years. Its comes that is for sure. @sub "The touch is nice, but the equivalent video iPod and Zune equivalent is good enough." Lets be really honest here, and drop the superfanboy rhetoric for one moment. If you were looking for MP3 player that played video really well, you would only be looking at the biggest Zune and the Touch. In that case the Touch with its bigger screen and much larger content support would win hands down. Especially considering the price drop. Does the Zune store even sell video content yet?
bettieblu
on Sep 10, 2008
"non-MP3 player has a speaker" I meant to say non-phone MP3 player
lookmark
on Sep 10, 2008
Now, in the words of the New York Times, "both sides now say they got what they wanted." Put another way, Apple caved to NBC's reasonable and customer-centric demands and NBC got what it wanted. Bravo. Not exactly. NBC wanted variable pricing for shows of their choosing, and only got it when attached to HD (along with 99c for older series). In return, Apple got NBC's content back, plus the return of iTunes marketing bugs on NBC shows. Doesn't seem anyone "caved in" to anyone here. How you view Apple as the "bad guy" here when they're trying to keep prices from arbitrary escalation (both for consumers *and* for their own self-interest) is beyond me.
chuckb84
on Sep 10, 2008
Of course, Paul can't comment on this with getting in the obligatory iCabal fanatics digs and concludes with "Oh, and one more thing. There was no one more thing. And that stinks. Because these announcements don't amount to much more than a cheerleading session for continued dominance." Yah, kind of like the Microsoft Gates/Seinfeld commercial or the "Mojave Experiment". Of course, it's just peachy when Microsoft does that, but reprehensible from Apple. Geez. I think there are only two points worth noting about the current iPods, especially the iTouch: 1. Mobile gaming. 2. The App store. As music players, these devices are mature, certainly. You can buy DRM-free music from multiple sources, play it, sort it, share it, find similar stuff. As music players, we're nearing the commodity level. The Zune is in a terrific fight for 3rd place in that market. The interest is what else you can make of these things, and in that area Apple is far ahead.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Sep 10, 2008
bettieblu "someone at Apple looked at sales figures and found that the 160gig did not sell enough to justify keeping it around" Quite possibly, they only made the 160GB version because they had some thick cases left over so they bought enough of the bigger drives to use up the thick cases. Had it taken off they could have had another batch of thick, classic cases made but I'd suspect they never planned on continuing it past the inventory imbalance.
shark47
on Sep 10, 2008
Whether you like the Zune or not, the fact is that iPods will continue to outsell it 50:1. So, why do Apple fanboys even bother with snarky comments like, "lipstick on a pig"? If you don't like it or don't think it fits your needs, don't buy it. Ignore it. You get irritated when someone brings up the Windows marketshare. That doesn't stop you or even his holiness from gloating about iPod's marketshare. You look at OS X vs Windows as a fight between David and Goliath and for that very reason, agree with and cheer on the smarmy remarks made about Vista. Yet, when it comes to the media player business, which is no doubt dominated by Apple, you cannot resist the urge to attack the Zune. Many of you confessed to hating Microsoft passionately and have even attempted to rationalize this hatred. Why not try ignoring inconsequential products like Zune in that case? That might help you. It's not like MS is forcing you to buy one.
johnpapola
on Sep 10, 2008
Like chuck said, the real story with the touch is that it broadens the userbase for the application platform. Apple's focus in the advertising on games... and the amazing quality of the graphics on the iPhone/iPod Touch platform is going to drive a whole new wave of adoption. Why have a DS or PS when the touch can do everything but make phone calls? And if you're Microsoft and you want Windows Mobile to stay competitive as a platform against the iPhone, the iPod Touch is going to be right there with it. So by the end of the year, Apple is likely to have exceeded their 10 million sales estimate, as I've said they would. The real question is how many touches they've sold. Could it be just as many? If so, that would mean that in 2008, Apple may outsell the Windows Mobile platform with it's Cocoa Touch platform. That's amazing... and it just doesn't get talked about enough. The touch really has no equal. On a side note. It's good to see Steve admit to bugs and call dropping issues in the iPhone and I really REALLY hope the 2.1 update delivers, especially with the contacts loading and search speed. Contacts on iPhone 2.0 is horrible.
Master3
on Sep 10, 2008
"Yah, kind of like the Microsoft Gates/Seinfeld commercial or the "Mojave Experiment". Of course, it's just peachy when Microsoft does that, but reprehensible from Apple." So these are the same as an Apple keynote/rally how? Maybe MS should put a huge pie chart on a screen showing Windows dominance over OSX and then we can really watch your head explode. Or lets have some MS guys make snarky comments about Apple during a presentation. 300+ posts of righteous indignation from the fanatics is a guarantee. Stuff that happens routinely from Apple with not a peep from its fans, because as we all well know that stuff is peachy when it comes from them. But have Paul take a swipe at Apple, no matter how small, and its oh so sensitive userbase soils themselves.
MaryW
on Sep 10, 2008
@Paul "Apple caved to NBC's reasonable and customer-centric demands" Customer-centric? Are you sure? So NBC wanted to charge some customers LESS .... and some customers MORE. Do you really believe that NBC's plan was to make LESS MONEY?
shark47
on Sep 10, 2008
The problem, Master, is that they try to portray themselves as the victims on this site and accuse Paul (and Mike) of unnecessarily harassing them. They make it seem like the MS bullies are out to get them all the time. I've heard references to David and Goliath at least a couple of times. The fact that Paul has taken swipes at Microsoft is an unnecessary detail for them. They either ignore it totally or twist it saying, "Even Paul has criticized this so it must be really bad." When the time comes,however, these very people are not averse to gloating over their marketshare or taking potshots at every small thing that comes out of Microsoft. They're the good guys, after all, so they deserve the high marketshare. The fact is, these people demand special treatment everywhere they go by virtue of being Apple fans. They're used to being pampered and getting special treatment at most tech sites and cannot tolerate it when they don't get it here. Paul is not always fair, but I have a feeling that some of his remarks are influenced by this behavior. This was way off topic and I apologize for it.
bettieblu
on Sep 10, 2008
@johnpapola, I dont think the Touch will ever reach the gaming to the level of the DS or PSP. First off not enough buttons. Second take a game like God of War for the PSP that fills a 2gig UMD disk. You going to sync 2gig games to your Touch? Certainly not going to buy them off of iTunes. The Touch will do gaming and do it well. Way better than anything the Zune/Windows Mobile can do right now, but Sony and Nintendo dont have anything to worry about. I did see that Belkin? is making some kind of sleeve with buttons for the Touch, that will help gaming, but it was one of those rumor type photo's which equals a big fat rumor.
Dude1313
on Sep 10, 2008
shark47 said: Whether you like the Zune or not, the fact is that iPods will continue to outsell it 50:1. So, why do Apple fanboys even bother with snarky comments like, "lipstick on a pig"? If you don't like it or don't think it fits your needs, don't buy it. Ignore it. You get irritated when someone brings up the Windows marketshare. That doesn't stop you or even his holiness from gloating about iPod's marketshare. You look at OS X vs Windows as a fight between David and Goliath and for that very reason, agree with and cheer on the smarmy remarks made about Vista. Yet, when it comes to the media player business, which is no doubt dominated by Apple, you cannot resist the urge to attack the Zune. Many of you confessed to hating Microsoft passionately and have even attempted to rationalize this hatred. Why not try ignoring inconsequential products like Zune in that case? That might help you. It's not like MS is forcing you to buy one. ******************************* Funny insert the word(s) PC of Windows for iPod/Apple and... Because we all know only Apple supporters are fanatics, Windows supporters are ALWAYS models of tact and decorum.

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