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The lead architect of Windows 95? Really?

Jul. 21, 2008 Paul Thurrott | Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows

So I'm curious about this one. The Cult of Mac has a blog post claiming that "the lead architect of Microsoft’s Windows 95," a man named Satoshi Nakajima, is now developing software for the iPhone.

The thing is, I've never heard of Satoshi Nakajima.

What I'm wondering is, was Nakajimi really the lead architect of Windows 95? He's described in three different ways in this blog post:

- Microsoft's Windows 95 architect

- the lead architect of Microsoft’s Windows 95

- the software architect of Windows 95 and 98

So which is it? My guess is, it's none of them, not really. My guess is that Nakajimi is just one of thousands of developers who worked on Windows 95. Maybe higher up than your average developer, maybe not. I can't find many other relevant references to him online because the Web is so busy republishing this (dubious?) Cult of Mac story, so all the Nakajimi references are just re-quotes from that one post. His name doesn't appear in any of the many tell-all books about Microsoft I own, but I did find him mentioned in a recent Wall Street Journal article, so I assume that's where the Cult of Mac heard about him. Here's how the WSJ describes him:

Mr. Nakajima, a former longtime Microsoft software engineer ...

Time for ten seconds of research.

I tried to contact the blog post author, someone named Lonnie Lazar. But there's no mention of him on the site's About Us page at all.

I tried to contact Mr. Nakajima on his new company's "Web site" (really a lame blog), but there's no contact info there either. (It literally says "Under construction" on the Contact Us page.)

However, Wikipedia does mention the following:

Satoshi Nakajima ... after thirteen and half years of his work at Microsoft where he had been a software architect for Windows 95/98 and Internet Explorer 3.0/4.0. [Emphasis mine.—Paul]

Ah.

So ... Was this guy really the architect/lead architect of Windows 95? Or is he really just one of thousands of ex-Microsoft software developers out there (i.e. "a software architect")?

I think it's the latter.

I think some guy who's not even referenced on the Cult of Mac blog has trumped up this guy's credentials to make this story seem more fascinating.

And I think the entire blogosphere just fell for it.

But hey, I could be wrong. I'm OK with it either way, really.

But why have I never heard of this guy?

Discuss this Article 56

yert
on Jul 21, 2008
Is Windows 95 really all that exciting after all these years anyways? Now if he had been a software architect for NT, that would be something to maybe talk about.
bdehamer
on Jul 21, 2008
Paul, how does this even warrant a blog post on your part? Your need to respond to every Apple story that contains the letters 'M' and 'S' is growing tiresome.
pthurrott
on Jul 21, 2008
Search Google for "windows 95 lead architect" today and what you'll see is that every single tech blog/Web site on earth has linked to that Cult of Mac post. That's why this is relevant. If you find getting to the truth to be tiresome, just skip the posts that you can presume are tiresome to you. I posted this out of curiosity. I'm sorry if you don't share that same interest in the truth. This has nothing to do with Windows 95. It's the notion that "THE guy responsible for Microsoft's most successful Windows release" is now an iPhone developer. It would be fantastical if it were true. And, hey. Maybe it is. I'm just curious about it either way.
Ocean
on Jul 21, 2008
I think Paul finds it relevant only because it involves the iPhone...and it gives him a chance to blast that %^*% iCabal again. I'm not sure that having worked on win95 would give Mr. Nakajima a leg up on the competition though.
weedmonk
on Jul 21, 2008
@yert...its not about Win95 being exciting now. Windows 95 changed desktop computing as we know it and being credited with being the "Lead Architect" of that is pretty relevant when trying to associate his present work developing for OSXiPhoneSDKitty1.0.
subzerohitman721
on Jul 21, 2008
Great job, Paul. Its fine to trash Windows and Microsoft but yet now that Nakajima-san develops for Apple, he's great and briliant? Its hard for me and guys like Paul to see the hypocrissy. Considering that many consider Windows 3x, 9x, 2000, and XP to be superb operating systems, wouldn't any former or current MS engineer be considered a genius? Its not like they hire high school drop outs to code? Just because some of you on the Mac side appreciate the talented crew at Culpertino, you guys can't step back and appreciate the great stuff that the crew at Redmond does? I have stated many times that Apple does some amazing products. However, lets be fair. Microsoft has some very creative folks over there that do some amazing things. Who wouldn't want to code for Apple or its products? I could also say the same thing about Microsoft or its products. At the end, you walk out with pockets and bank accounts that are a lot more full than you walked in.
lotsamystuff
on Jul 21, 2008
I'm with Paul on this one. If you're going to refer to the guy as the "lead architect", you better be able to back it up (or at the very least, publish a clarification if you can't).
Delmont
on Jul 21, 2008
I too agree with Paul on this one.
Dude1313
on Jul 21, 2008
Anyone ever get the feeling that this "My quest to harp on anything Pro-Apple/Anti-Microsoft blog" should be prefaced with the tag-line: "The Truth is out there". Silly me I thought this was the WINDOWS Supersite? Subzero- Despite the "teething problems" MS Office 2008 isn't that bad. Of course dragging out issues for years isn't the best way to enthuse ones customers base... Similarly 2007 on the PC is quiet nice. The point I draw the line is anyone who has a collective brain cell that pays (willingly) the usury charges that is Exchange. Nice product, but not grossly over priced: ridiculously overpriced. The other issue I have is the collective order of magnitude that Paul uses as his yard stick/criteria. He will shout at the top of his lungs about Apple and its missteps (even I'll agree with some) but then equates Apples missteps to the same level of Microsoft and the utter despicable shenanigans they have perpetrated in the business world. To quote Vincent in Pulp Fiction: "They aint in the same ballpark, they aint in the same sport". Apple is no saint, doesn't mean that Microsoft is passing through the Pearly Gates with a free pass...
lotsamystuff
on Jul 21, 2008
Oops. Spoke too soon. 20 seconds of researched revealed the following blurb: "Before joining Ignition, Satoshi spent 14 years at Microsoft, most recently as lead software architect for the Windows shell and Internet Explorer teams. Satoshi was responsible for several key technological innovations at Microsoft, such as Internet Explorer's componentization and its integration with both Microsoft Office and Windows. During his time at Microsoft, he developed the third largest portfolio of intellectual property of any employee at Microsoft." http://www.uievolution.com/ Click on the "Management" menu. (Paul is sure to publish a clarification. Any second now...)
lotsamystuff
on Jul 21, 2008
In the interest of eating my own humble pie, that's "research", not "researched". The "management" link (not "menu") can be found at the bottom of the referenced page.
Ocean
on Jul 21, 2008
So here's the question: Why hasn't Paul heard of him? Maybe it has something to do with his journalistic chops? Maybe he doesn't have the MS access we all thought? :)
johnpapola
on Jul 21, 2008
Ah yes. Paul goes into fine-grained parsing mode against the "iCabal" once again. Yet his own site claims "iTunes is unreliable" among it's headlines without a shred of real work done to prove the statement and, in fact, content in the body of the post that contradicts the headline. Talk about burying the lead. Funny, the different standards that get used to interpret information when you are biased. Paul's justification for this focus is a narrowly constructed google search. This is "fair and balanced" news from the winsupersite. Meanwhile, the alleged "iCabal" site in question was front-and-center with criticism of the iPhone 2.0 software and it's bugs, it's slow backup syncing, the iPhone's failure to excite the enterprise and the problems with MobileMe. But wait! How can they be the "iCabal" and hit apple with the same criticisms that Paul has leveled? Because there is no iCabal, only platform zealots on all sides. Paul is deluded and increasingly seeing conspiracy with every mac-related website he trolls. His selective editorial is plain for all to see. I mean, seriously, folks. He claims MS zealotry doesn't exist... while staring it right in the face in the comments of his own blog. Disclaimer: I'm commenting here because it is an article about Apple. I've made no general claims regarding Microsoft or it's products. If you can't handle that... too bad.
shark47
on Jul 21, 2008
@lotsa: Where does it say he was "the lead architect of Microsoft's Windows 95"? Exactly. Nowhere.
daveinla
on Jul 21, 2008
who cares about that guy ?? Let alone doing the reseqarch on him and making a post on a blog...
lotsamystuff
on Jul 21, 2008
sharky: RTFA. http://www.uievolution.com/company/management/Satoshi-Nakajima ----- "Satoshi Nakajima has more than two decades of software and computing experience in Japan and the United States. His achievements include creating the world’s first CAD application for the personal computer, defining the architecture for Microsoft Windows 95, and overseeing the creation of Internet Explorer 3.0. B"efore founding UIEvolution®, Satoshi co-founded Ignition, LLC, a Bellevue, Washington-based venture capital firm that focuses on next-generation wireless technologies. Satoshi evaluated technologies for prospective investments and became the resident i-Mode and WAP expert. "Before joining Ignition, Satoshi spent 14 years at Microsoft, most recently as lead software architect for the Windows shell and Internet Explorer teams. Satoshi was responsible for several key technological innovations at Microsoft, such as Internet Explorer's componentization and its integration with both Microsoft Office and Windows. During his time at Microsoft, he developed the third largest portfolio of intellectual property of any employee at Microsoft. "Prior to Microsoft, Satoshi worked as a researcher for NTT Labs in Tokyo, Japan. Satoshi received a Master of Electrical Engineering degree from Waseda University in Tokyo, Japan." ------ I now firmly believe that Ms. Lazar did her research, unless Satoshi is lying on his bio.
DRWAM
on Jul 21, 2008
So what are windows guys doing at a Mac website:) Don't throw stones. Anyway, the worst FUD about MS was just on KYW1060 in Philly. It was a lenghty radio ad of a virus [actually worm] threat and was real nasty. Guess who wrote it? HP. It was to sell some kind of software with partnership from Softsmart or something that I have not been able to Google, but I may have gotten the name wrong. It would make your blood boil. Some character is a worm [first he says he's a virus, then tells you that he's actually a worm]telling you that he is propaging and infesting your entire compant's infrastructure, while you are on the phone for tech support. Guys, it's worse than the Mac commercials. MS ought to give HP a thrashing for it.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 21, 2008
I worked pretty closely with the Win95 team and Satoshi's name sounds familiar but I think he may have been a dev lead and not a PM or Lead PM. At the time, product design and architecture was primarily done by PMs and Dev leads worked out implementation issues rather than product design and arthitecture issues. Still, it's been 13 years so my memory of who did what is a lttle hazy but his blog (translated from the Japanese by translator.live.com) makes it sound like he may have been dev lead for the shell toward the end of the project.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 21, 2008
And, of course, there's also the question of "who is an architect" since that wasn't really a standard Microsoft title during the Win95 days.
DRWAM
on Jul 21, 2008
Mike, you probably ordered satoshi for lunch one day, 13 yrs ago. I put some soy sauce on it. maybe that's why it's familiar:) "The" lead architect sounds as if he was at the top of the ranks. I'm hungry now.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 21, 2008
Of course, questionable bios being reported as fact isn't unheard of in this industry. We've had very few industry histories that bear much resemblence to what actually happened and often guesswork, gossip and rumor become so entrenched that people both assume they're true and that gets repeated so much on the Internet that it's hard to find accurate info. For example, if you read Alan Cooper's bio or quite a few articles, he's "The Father of Visual Basic" but the actual story is a little less grand (as told by the VB 1.0 dev lead at http://www.forestmoon.com/BIRTHofVB/BIRTHofVB.html ) I worked with Adam and Nevet at the time, still have my "Thunder" desk clock and VB 1.0 team t-shirt, and Scott's version is pretty dead on accurate. However, it's hard to find versions that agree with Scott and lots of references that match the Cooper version are out there.
Ocean
on Jul 21, 2008
Mike...do you have any proof...or is it all conjecture?
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 21, 2008
@Ocean Proof of what? (There are several posts and quite a few things you could be asking about)
Snakedoctor1
on Jul 21, 2008
"Search Google for "windows 95 lead architect"" Sorry I can see my self EVER doing this in 2008. I also just can see you getting up this AM and sitting down at your Mac with Vista on it, and bringing up Google and searching for "windows 95 lead architect".....just dont see it. Sadly Paul it just makes it look like you go out of your way to trash Apple. Like Grandma said, dont blow out someone elses candle to make yours burn brighter:)
DRWAM
on Jul 21, 2008
@ Mike. My buddy told me that he had all Vista Ultimate updates [automatic] and had no problem with the Active X add-on/plugin/control with the hospital site, but guys with Home Premium seem to have them. I realize that a series of two guys with Ultimate is not statistically significant, but it looks as if your assumption may be correct, about having the updates work, at least with the Ultimate version. Does this make any sense that something in Ultimateworks better with the hospitals version of the software [GE Centricity PACS through IE 7 browser]?
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 21, 2008
@DrWam (and off topic so everyone else can ignore) There's really no difference in the parts of Windows Vista that would work on just browser stuff between the various versions. I'd guess that it's something else that made the difference and the Ultimate vs Home Premium thing is just coincidence from a small sample. (Assuming that the GE product doesn't use something like Active Directory features that aren't in Home version)
tayme
on Jul 21, 2008
@Mike - "Assuming that the GE product doesn't use something like Active Directory features that aren't in Home version" Sorry, I didn't ignore your post...I think that you are on to something...if the hospital uses AD to log the users into the web app, that is probably the case. We use AD to do a lot of auto login stuff at our site... --tayme
Snakedoctor1
on Jul 21, 2008
@Doc, like Mike said there is nothing in Ultimate that would allow you do more than VHP when it comes to what you have said you are doing. Ultimate is the ultimate insult from MS. Its not worth the price at all. The stuff it adds can be done cheaper and better with third party tools. Take image backup for example. Acronis True Image is waaaaay better than Vista image and only $49. Stuff like not be able to joint a domain with VHP but you can with Ultimate is just a slap in the face to the user community. Vista should have 1 version for $100 - $150. Upon install you should be able to remove stuff like Media center and other consumer stuff that is not needed in a corporation.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 21, 2008
@Snakedoctor1 Paul not only didn't "trash Apple", he never even mentioned them in this post. He DID question an independant Mac-focused blog's level of journalism. (As much as any Mac blog can be considered truly independant considering Apple's litigious nature against critical bloggers) Do you really think that's the same thing as "trashing Apple"? Do you really think Apple should be so immune from honest discussion that even 3rd parties talking about them should be given a free pass for anything they say as long as it's favorable to Cupertino?
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 21, 2008
@Snakedoctor1 I assume you're comparing Vista Ultimate to Vista Home Professional (and not Ultimate to Business). Since it's an upgrade to either and contains the features of both, you really need to specify. Now, here's a list of features in Ultimate that aren't in Home Pro. It doesn't take a lot of your "waaaaay better" $49 apps to make up the $54.50 street price difference between the full retail ($277.49 vs 222.99 at NewEgg) seem like one heck of a bargain. Complete PC Backup and Restore (image based) Shadow Copy (restore previous versions of your documents) Maximum RAM suppported (in 64-bir versions) 128GB+ vs 16GB Two processors (two processor sockets) support Small Business Resources Windows Fax and Scan Wireless etwork provisionig Windows Mobility Center extra features Offline Folder support System Image-based backup and recovery Encrypting File System Desktop deployment tools for managed networks Policy-based quality of service for networking Windows Rights Management Serivces (RMS) client Control over installation of device drivers Network Access Protection Client Agent Windows BitLocker Drive Encryption Support for simultaneous installation of multiple user interface languages All worldwide user interface languages (36 languages total) available Subsystem for UNIX-based applications
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 21, 2008
And in case you meant Ultimate didn't offer much over Business edition (It's actually about a dollar cheaper in street price, btw) here's a list of what's in Ultimate that isn't in Business. (Note I haven't bothered adding the extras that come with Ultimate Extras so we can think of them as free) 5 years LESS product support (10 vs 5) Themes Slide Shows Native DVD playback Windows Media Center Windows Media Center HiDefinition TV Windows Media Center CableCard support Support for Media Center Extenders Windows Movie Maker HD Windows DVD Maker (Video DVD Authoring and Burning) Support for simultaneous installation of multiple user interface languages All worldwide user interface languages (36 languages total) available Subsystem for UNIX-based applications
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 21, 2008
Now, as for pricing, your statement of "Vista should have 1 version for $100 - $150. Upon install you should be able to remove stuff like Media center and other consumer stuff that is not needed in a corporation. " is essentially saying Microsoft should only sell Windows Vista Ultimate and should price it at $100-150. Let's compare street prices... OS X 10.5.1 Upgrade price - $109.95 OS X 10.5.1 Full package price - unknown (included in Mac retail price with no legal way to buy either a Mac without OS X or install OS X on anything but a Mac) Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 Upgrade price - $184.99 Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 Full package price - $277.49 Now let's look at costs for staying current - feel free to join either platform at any time (but don't forget to add in whatever you think Apple hides for the initial Full Package Product) Mac OS X 10.0 - $149 Mac OS X 10.0 to 10.1 - Free Mac OS X 10.1 to 10.2 - $149 Mac OS X 10.2 to 10.3 - $149 Mac OS X 10.3 to 10.4 - $149 Mac OS X 10.4 to 10.5 - $149 Windows XP Pro Full Retail - $189.99 Windows XP to XP SP1 - Free Windows XP SP1 to XP SP2 - Free Windows XP SP2 to XP SP3 - Free Windows XP Pro to Windows Vista Ultimate - $277.49 Windows Vista Ultimate to SP1 - $Free So, Vista Ultimate Upgrade costs $75 more than an OS X Upgrade but the cost of being current makes up that difference in about 6 months. Do you think Microsoft should charge every year for all the minor updates? Do you think Apple wil charge $149 to upgrade from Leopard to Snow Leopard when they've said it's not going to be about new features but more about tuning and bug fixes? And, of course, we're not basing this on OEM pricing or even White Box OEM pricing but Full Retail for Windows Vista despite that being the rare worst case. And if you were going to say "Well, Linux..." RedHat Linux Workstation is $179 per year. About the same as buying OS X and buying each point release update.
lotsamystuff
on Jul 21, 2008
My God. Waethorn has a twin.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 21, 2008
Oops. Obviously in the "keeping current" section, should have read: Now let's look at costs for staying current - feel free to join either platform at any time (but don't forget to add in whatever you think Apple hides for the initial Full Package Product) Mac OS X 10.0 - $149 Mac OS X 10.0 to 10.1 - Free Mac OS X 10.1 to 10.2 - $149 Mac OS X 10.2 to 10.3 - $149 Mac OS X 10.3 to 10.4 - $149 Mac OS X 10.4 to 10.5 - $149 Windows XP Pro Full Retail - $189.99 Windows XP to XP SP1 - Free Windows XP SP1 to XP SP2 - Free Windows XP SP2 to XP SP3 - Free Windows XP Pro to Windows Vista Ultimate - $184.99 Windows Vista Ultimate to SP1 - $Free So, Vista Ultimate Upgrade costs $35 more than an OS X Upgrade but the cost of being current makes up that difference in about 3 months. Sorry that I unintentionally made Apple look better than they are.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 21, 2008
Personally, I prefer facts to wild, baseless accusations - hence the detailed postings. We now return you to the factless fanboi ego-fest already in progress. W1ND0WZ RULZ D00DZ!!!!!!!! mac is the 5ux0rs (happier now?)
DRWAM
on Jul 21, 2008
One other thing Mike. We get to add the purchase to our expense account [uses pre-tax dollars]. The IRS came down hard on some docs in other areas of the country which became big news to the medical community. We are careful to follow the rules of business expenses, as our CFO interprets. As a result, it's probably wiser to by Vista Ultimate or Business, rather than any 'Home' version, to insure that the expense is legit. Therefore, when buying an upgrade, we chose Ultimate. If you are buying a new computer [allowed every two years], anything goes, but an upgrade brought us a little fear. Using our expense account, gives us a 40 to 50% discount in tax savings. Pathetically, my group does NOT have a car lease plan for this account, when many other practices do so. It's mostly fear of a penalty after a potential audit, but we really do not travel between offices during the day as we stay put in one location, so there is no allowable deductable mileage. From home to office is not deductable, but a company car would be. Most groups skirt around this by 'claiming' that they have a company car and that they are their own leasing company, or so it was explained to me. It's easy to tell who does this as they have the more expensive cars in the doctor's parking lot. Yep, I have a little envy, but no fears of the IRS. Doc
Snakedoctor1
on Jul 21, 2008
Mike thanks for proving with 5-6 posts how and why having so many Vista choices, is confusing for joe user and a BIG complaint amongst so many in the IT world. I could not have said it better. As far as OS X, one version $105 its not an upgrade, since you dont need to have any OS on your mac to install it. No key, No activation, one version that does what Ultimate does, give or take a few apps. Staying current is easy as Windows update for XP user, Vista user or Leopard users, and its free. I have 10.5.4 on my Mac and getting to .4 was free. Buying a new OS is a choice. Security updates are still released for Tiger and XP. Ultimage is a rip off plane and simple. I would not suggest it to anyone. So many of those added featers over VHP are either not needed or BS that should be in any version, multiple CPU's (who does this anymore with dual/quad cores?) more than 16gig of ram, RMS, control over the installation of device drivers, RDP host bits....lame list that I am sure Doc would rather not think about. Its been written about all over the net that having so many Vista choices is hated by users, hated. Brother you are a true coolaid drinker tried and true. You probably one of the 3 people in your state that lined up for the 10am launch of Vista at your local bestbuy. Oh and you can get Fedora free, Ubuntu is even better and its free as well. I am Linux fan on the client side as I think its not a good option for Joe User.
johnpapola
on Jul 21, 2008
@Mike, There is simply no way you can compare XP service packs to any OSX upgrade other than perhaps 10.1, which was free. That you are trying to do so shows that you really know nothing about OSX and are just bashing Apple with the same hackneyed winCabal rhetoric that every other Apple-bashing partisan hack uses. Each new OSX version has had substantial new user features, new and upgrading applications, new and improved APIs for developers and massive optimizations. Comparing that with "bugfixes & security updates" in SP1, 2 and 3 is simply a lie. And since when is anyone REQUIRED to stay current with OSX? The beauty of Apple's rapid development is that you can CHOOSE to upgrade for the new features if you want them, or wait and happily keep what you have. Plus, each version of OSX has also gotten FASTER on the SAME HARDWARE and hasn't required new systems to use... unlike Vista. OSX's graphics subsystem isn't some busted kludge that changes the UI look and feel on lower graphics cards or when older software runs. Leopard on a 5 year old mac looks identical to Leopard on a new Mac Pro. So you better include the cost of a new computer with Vista in your comparison. Paul himself doesn't recommend upgrading. "Personally, I prefer facts to wild, baseless accusations" Yeah... like your baseless allegations that linux is loaded with MS-patented code without any examples while defending MS' FUD campaign. We know where you stand, Mike. You're a Windows Fanboy. That's fine. You clearly seem to make you living in the Windows world. Great. Why that also has to mean bashing Apple with cheap, intellectually dishonest garbage is beyond me.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 21, 2008
Snakedoctor1 If you have any way to buy a Mac without OS X, let me (and Apple) know. You bought a full package license with the computer. Because there is no way to avoid that, all purchases after tha are upgrades.
samkass
on Jul 21, 2008
I typed the following search in to Google (the -Mac filters out all the hits that have anything to do with the Mac): "architect for Windows 95" -Mac and: "architect of Windows 95" -Mac So "serverwatch.com" seems to think Mr. Nakajima was "lead software architect for Windows 95", too. Does serverwatch also have a Mac bias? Another site that pops up is http://satoshi.blogs.com/about.html, in which Nakajima himself claims he was "software architect of Windows 95/98 as well as Internet Explorer 3.0/4.0". (He omits "the" or "a".) These, along with the wikipedia entry you yourself mention leads me to think that the author of the story you're lambasting appears to have a perfectly legitimate reason to believe the stated facts to be true. And I don't know why Paul hasn't heard of this guy. Good question, Paul. You'd think the guy writing the SuperSite would have heard of Microsoft's third most prolific patenter or even "a" lead software architect for Windows and IE. Be that as it may, I think some blog was begging for hits with baseless allegations and it wasn't the Mac one.
Mum
on Jul 21, 2008
"Mac OS X 10.0 - $149 Mac OS X 10.0 to 10.1 - Free Mac OS X 10.1 to 10.2 - $149 Mac OS X 10.2 to 10.3 - $149 Mac OS X 10.3 to 10.4 - $149 Mac OS X 10.4 to 10.5 - $149" Ten seconds of research. Mac OS X 10.0 - $129.95 Mac OS X 10.0 to 10.1 - Free Mac OS X 10.1 to 10.2 - $129 Mac OS X 10.2 to 10.3 - $129 Mac OS X 10.3 to 10.4 - $129 Mac OS X 10.4 to 10.5 - $129
DRWAM
on Jul 22, 2008
It is probably true that most Mac users don't upgrade t the latest OS. In fact, not one of my friends [with Macs] has upgraded the shipping Mac OS, and I have a lot of friends. Even those with Intel Macs shipped with Tiger, that wanted to use Bootcamp with needed Windows apps. They found VMware or Parallels and use these apps, rather than upgrade to Leopard. Heck, one guy was not going to upgrade using the free Leopard install DVD when he purchase close to the Leopard released. Since he is in my gtroup and needed some stuff set up for work [Leopard has built in support for our PPTP VPN], and he lives around the corner, I upgraded him. wo other did not open the free upgrade DVD box for many months, until I pestered them enough to use their new [Mac] computer than their old outdated junk. I myself only made one upgrade purchase, which was Mac OS 8, many years ago. Otherwise I stuck to what was shipped, until this year when our IT guy wanted someone to help experiment, so he got me a [legal] Leopard install disc. That being sad, While I believe you all that under the hood, a lot got revised, very little looks different to us average users. Also, some of Apples gadgets required the newer OS, which ticked off many. Since hacks were made to make the OS [and a think some gadgets on older OS's as well] on non-supported older computers, many felt that Apple skunked them.
Snakedoctor1
on Jul 22, 2008
@mike when did hardware come into this conversation???? Brother you just got to win the Windows argument. Let me shoot some holes in that for you. If you have a way to buy a PC from HP, Dell, Gateway, Acer, Toshiba, or Sony with out Windows let us all know. How this hardware thing came up???? Ok lets say you have a PC with XP on it and I have a Mac with Tiger on it. You can pay to get an upgrade to Vista. Now you depending upon what version of XP you have can affect which version of Vista you can upgrade to. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-vista/get/upgrade-your-pc-optio... all at different price points, and with different features. Really easy for joe user to figure out!!!!! You, or Joe user cant do a clean install you must go over the top of XP, well you can but you you need to install not using your key then install over the top again....great stuff. The of course you have to deal with activation BS. On my Mac with Tiger, I just buy Leopard from many places, Amazon has it for $105. There is one version. I can install over the top, or wipe the drive and do a clean install. NO RESTRICTIONS. There is no key and there is no activation BS. Please tell me which method the average user would like go through??? Wait I know you will make up so crazy scenario that will end up with the Average user preferring the the much more confusing MS way. I must be clairvoyant.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 22, 2008
@snakedoctor1 It only comes in when people act as though a retail copy of OS X isn't an upgrade. I'll do this slowly for anybody who thinks it's hard and is still reading: Is there a way to buy a computer that can run OS X without buying a copy of OS X at the same time? NO Is there a way to build a computer that can run OS X? NO Is there any way to obtain a computer that can run OS X that wasn't sold bundled with a full package product copy of OS X? NO Do any OS X compatible computers exist that don't have a license for OS X? NO Is there any OS X compatible computer that doesn't qualify for an Upgrade license rather than Full Package Product? NO If 100% of the computers your software runs on already include your software, ALL your sales are either bundled with new computers or are upgrades to copies that were bundled with new computers. It isn't that hard a concept.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 22, 2008
@mum Yep. My mistake. Doesn't really change the point, though. But, still, my mistake.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 22, 2008
In deference to Mum's correction... Now let's look at costs for staying current - feel free to join either platform at any time (but don't forget to either add in whatever you think Apple hides for the initial Full Package Product or subtract the bundled OEM copy of Windows) Mac OS X 10.0 - $129.95 Mac OS X 10.0 to 10.1 - Free Mac OS X 10.1 to 10.2 - $129.95 Mac OS X 10.2 to 10.3 - $129.95 Mac OS X 10.3 to 10.4 - $129.95 Mac OS X 10.4 to 10.5 - $129.95 Windows XP Pro Full Retail - $189.99 Windows XP to XP SP1 - Free Windows XP SP1 to XP SP2 - Free Windows XP SP2 to XP SP3 - Free Windows XP Pro to Windows Vista Ultimate - $184.99 Windows Vista Ultimate to SP1 - $Free So, Vista Ultimate Upgrade costs $54 more than an OS X Upgrade but the cost of being current makes up that difference in about 5 months.
DRWAM
on Jul 22, 2008
If you throw in Windows Me which shipped 6 months earlier than OS X, you need to add over a hundred more. I'm telling you, price of all OS X release is not additive in most of the Mac user community, as most do not upgrade. They just don't need to do so. Unfortunately, there is no accurate, real data to to the percent of Mac user base that did or did not. However, if you go to versiontracker.com, you will see categories of software update for each release, as well as pre OS X. If they did not get a significant number of surfers at the 10.2, 10.3 or even Classic [pre-OS X] then why would they continue to keep them at the site? As stated, I have not even one friend that ever purchase an OS upgrade from Apple and was shocked to know that some still use 10.2 and Classic. That being said, I have no data, but feel that those numbers above my post are meaningless and I frequently see them throw in in the FUD wars. But what the heck do I know?
DRWAM
on Jul 22, 2008
One other thing. I f you claim that some did all the above upgrades,than they've owned the same Mac for 8 or 9 years. That sounds like a bargain since they did not need to buy 2 or 3 PC's in the interval years, at an average of $1500, they save around $3000 by buying a Mac.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 22, 2008
@DrWam First, according to Steve Jobs numbers in his keynotes, most Mac users upgrade at least every other build and close to half do for each build. Secondly, As I said in the post, join the comparison at any point. I wasn't suggesting that in either platform there were significant numbers of people who had upgraded one machine through all these releases, just that a comparison could be made at any time. Now, next year, when Snow Leopard obsoletes (as much as not being able to be current is obsolete) all the PPC based Macs including those only a few years old, the comparison will, of course, get more complex.
Snakedoctor1
on Jul 22, 2008
@mike, thanks for not answering my question. How YOU got on an OS coming with a PC??????????????????????? 1 second you are talking about the cost of an an OS to keep it up to date the next your ranting about OS X coming with a Mac. For Joe user who buys their Mac or PC at Bestbuy, all computers come with an OS...its a given. What planet do you live on? For the less than 1% that build their PC's, they have a choice. For arguments sake I would assume you could understand this basic FACT. Using the Windows world definition of an upgrade, you must have a previous product installed. A copy of the latest Apple OS does not have this requirement.....plane and simple. If I buy a used Mac on Ebay and it has a blank HD, and I buy a copy of Leopard what do you call it? Its going to install, and not complain about there being no OS on the blank drive and I am legally with in my rights to install it. If I buy PC on Ebay with a blank drive, and I try to install an upgrade of Vista....it will fail, unless you know the work around to get past the upgrade check. In that case you are breaking the law. Your illogical, subject changing ramblings are as clear as mud brother.

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