The MobileMe disaster continues: Now it's not 'Exchange for the rest of us' anymore

I just received the following note that Apple sent to its sales force. In it, the company says that it will no longer use the "Exchange for the rest of us" slogan because MobileMe, unlike Exchange, does not really use push technology. This whole thing is unbelievable to me:

MobileMe Messaging Update

MobileMe messaging is being updated effective immediately. In order to set appropriate expectations with our customers, focus your sales discussion on "automatic sync" rather than "push." Additionally, we will no longer describe MobileMe as "Exchange for the rest of us."

When discussing the sync features of MobileMe, you may tell a customer that:

  • Updates between me.com and iPhone or iPod touch will occur in a matter of seconds.
  • Updates between me.com and Macs running Mac OS X Leopard and Windows PCs may take up to 15 minutes when MobileMe is set to sync automatically (Macs running Mac OS X Tiger may experience longer sync times).

As I noted previously, the distinction between "automatic sync" and "push" is sort of subtle and unlikely to affect most people. But Apple has a history of over-promising and under-delivering (Leopard's secret features, anyone?) and they get a total pass on this with the press. I don't get it, not now that the company is selling to a mass market. Microsoft would be skewered endlessly for doing something like this.

Exchange for the rest of us? More like "half-baked, partially-realized sync service that works better on Macs than it does on PCs, even though most  iPhone users have PCs." Granted, that's not much of a marketing slogan.

BTW ... speaking of the press and Apple, here's a great example of what I'm talking about. The New York Times' David Pogue, who, from what I can tell, writes an occasional column about digital cameras on the off weeks in which there's nothing Apple-related to discuss, appears to provide a well-rounded "review" of MobileMe in today's edition. But look at what's really happening here:

The magic is impressive. Make a change on your Mac, watch it appear on your iPhone and your PC. Add a new friend to the address book in Outlook Express on your Windows XP machine, and watch it appear in Windows Contacts on your Vista PC. Change an appointment in iCal on the kitchen Mac, and know that it will wirelessly sprout onto your traveling spouse’s iPhone four states away. And your Web bookmarks are the same everywhere.

OK, now let's pick it apart.

The magic is impressive. Make a change on your Mac, watch it appear on your iPhone and your PC ...

... up to fifteen minutes later. It's magic!

Add a new friend to the address book in Outlook Express on your Windows XP machine, and watch it appear in Windows Contacts on your Vista PC ...

... Again, up to fifteen minutes later.

Change an appointment in iCal on the kitchen Mac, and know that it will wirelessly sprout onto your traveling spouse’s iPhone four states away.

Notice that he switched from Windows to Mac on this one. There's a reason: On Windows, you have to pay at least $100 before you can sync calendars at all. There are only two Windows-compatible calendar syncing options available, despite the fact that Microsoft includes a free iCal clone in Windows Vista called Windows Calendar. Those two expensive options include Apple's own MobileMe service ($100 a year) and Microsoft Outlook ($110).

Now, granted, this is a MobileMe review, so he's talking about the very service you might be paying for anyway. But in carefully choosing his sync points above, Pogue is, in fact, also very carefully masking a huge problem with the iPhone and iPhone 3G: You can't sync calendars on Windows unless you pay extra for something else. This is why the phrase "Apple apologist" comes up with people like this. It's the appearance of fairness couched in what is really a promotion of all things Apple. Ignoring faults is a lie. Unless of course it's just ignorance. Which may be worse.

And your Web bookmarks are the same everywhere.

Are they now?

You want to know the truth about MobileMe on Windows? Here it is: Roughly 75 percent of all Windows users use Internet Explorer. And, sure enough, MobileMe syncs IE (and, cough, Safari) bookmarks. Neat. But the MobileMe Web interface—you know, the only way a Windows user can actually access the service's photo gallery, iDisk (without getting help), and help interfaces—doesn't work with IE, the browser that's used by most people on earth. In fact, Apple actually tosses up a nasty message when you try to use IE:

Cute, eh?

See, MobileMe only works with non-Microsoft browsers like Firefox and Safari. But get this: MobileMe won't sync your Firefox bookmarks at all. Crazy, right?

Kids, welcome to the halfway house that is Apple software running on Windows. You will never get the full meal deal unless you make the switch. And that, folks, is the unapologetic truth. The truth that reviewers like Pogue will never, ever mention, either because they don't know (i.e. they don't really use the systems that most of their readers use) or because they don't care (they're promoting Apple and its products).

Read it again:

And your Web bookmarks are the same everywhere.

So they're the same everywhere, if you use IE, in which case you can't access MobileMe. Or they're not the same everywhere because you use Firefox to access MobileMe and it doesn't support Firefox bookmark syncing. Curious that Mr. Pogue doesn't mention this. What does work, of course, is Safari: If you use only Apple products, everything works just fine. He does mention this:

Beware, though: you need the latest version of Firefox or Apple’s Safari Web browser to exploit all the features.

Except, of course, for bookmark sync. That won't work with Firefox.

Pogue even includes this insane little rah-rah sentence to explain away the IE stuff:

After all those years of being treated like an oppressed minority, it must give Apple some satisfaction to exclude Internet Explorer because it “has known compatibility issues with modern Web standards.”

Weird that every other Web site/application/service has no problem with IE 7. Weird.

Apple apologists will say I'm picking nits. But I'm not a Mac user, or a Windows apologist, I'm a Windows user. As, incidentally, are most iPhone users. As, incidentally, will be most MobileMe users. And when I discuss things like the iPhone and MobileMe, I do so from the position of someone who is part of the majority. And I'd like to know why it's OK for Apple to continually insult this majority crowd of its customers. Calendaring sync has been broken on Windows since the iPhone launched. It's still broken, unless you pay Apple $100 a year to fix it or happen to own Outlook.

Seriously, where is the outrage?

The magic is impressive. That's really all I'm saying here.

Discuss this Article 109

Doc72
on Jul 17, 2008
You know, I've been using Macs since 1992. I admit that I use Windows only when necessary...I'm just more productive on a Mac (it's what I'm used to). Throughout the years of being a Mac user I've had to deal with that fact that hundreds if not thousands of websites only work with Internet Explorer (which Microsoft stopped developing for the Mac years ago). When has Microsoft or developers that build applications for Windows EVER cared about being compatible for Mac users in any "real" way. I mean even the new Excel 2008 for Mac is crippled. We always just got the "go and play with your toys" type answers from the PC guys. So please excuse us Mac users for not feeling too bad about PC users not getting the "full" experience. We've been living in that reality for years.
ibarskiy
on Jul 17, 2008
Mac is far (far, far, far, far) from the predominantly used platform. And, as a general rule, you really want to develop your software for the majority. Or at least make sure it works if you are going to advertise it to the majority.
JamesNT
on Jul 17, 2008
Doc, So the fact that people paid serious cash for this stuff makes no difference to you? It's ok for Apple to take their money and make half-assed promises today because of a situation that was relevant years ago? JamesNT
RaaJ
on Jul 17, 2008
Doc, When you chose to use a minority platform, you signed up for the drawbacks it brings with it. You are talking about Microsoft not choosing to continue investing in developing for a 2-3% market segment (Macs in those yesteryears). It is not MS who put a gun to the developers' heads and made them optimize the websites for IE. It is the overwhelming marketshare of IE and Windows that made it logical and productive for every web developer and their mother to code for IE primarily. You are getting emotional at getting a chance to snub your nose at Windows users for once. How can you objectively say that Apple is justified in not fully supporting almost 80% of the market?
johnbaxter
on Jul 17, 2008
Paul, if you have time (hah!), listen to MacBreak before recording Windows Weekly. Not exactly a free pass there. Doc72: The Internet Explorer for Mac (long since moot) was, in its day, by far the most standards (of the time) compliant widely-used browser around. Meaning it ALSO had trouble with many "Internet Explorer" only sites. It was unrelated except by name to Windows Internet Explorer. For me, the parts of MobileMe that are working are what I need (for my day-in-day-out Mac use). But I'm very annoyed with Apple over this mess. I wasn't expecting to bring the Vista laptop into MobileMe except by browser anyhow.
brostbeef
on Jul 17, 2008
*clapping/cheering* Right on Paul! Great post! @Doc72: I may not know about the "EXTREME hardship" you must go through everyday on a "software" platform which isn't fully supported by Microsoft. That's your choice. Enjoy! What's really being argued here, I think, is that Apple chose to produce hardware and software which "supports" the Windows platform. However, the level of that support is absurd. I'm a software developer and only a hobbyist web developer, but even I know the importance of ensuring that the code I write is compatible with the platforms of the majority. If I forget about the majority, I lose. I honestly wouldn't have a problem with Apple if they said that they only had "limited/no support" on the PC side. If they said that their developers could only write good code for a Mac and were incapable of writing good code for PCs, then fine. However, Apple and all the apologists tout the seamless integration between Mac and PC which is an outright lie. Quit lying to me and I'll be more forgiving. However, what really ticks me off is the majority. The majority of PC users using Apple hardware and software who are letting Apple get away with it. Like Paul said, "Seriously, where's the outrage?". To that I say, "RIGHT HERE!"
Dipsh t Admin
on Jul 17, 2008
I'm actually going to try and stay out of this one, but Paul, get ready for a sh*t storm of comments. Who wants to bet that this will reach 100 comments faster than any other post? I can actually HEAR the Kool-Aid boiling right now, kind of like the slime in the generally weak Ghostbusters 2.
ggolcher
on Jul 17, 2008
Doc72, Love thy neighbor. Turn the other cheek. Forgive and forget. Love Allah! Remember, you've been wronged my son, but two wrongs don't make a right... In all seriousness, closeminded resentment is bad business.
weedmonk
on Jul 17, 2008
Wow, that was a pleasure to read. Brilliant stuff, Paul. The part that I thought you most eloquent was the MSM not only masking of all the rough edges in Apple releases but willful subversion to do so. HOF Post.
brandon.pope
on Jul 17, 2008
This kind of stuff will catch up to Apple eventually. Some day some other company is going to come out and become the "cool" brand. When that happens, and people don't feel they have to protect Apple to protect their image, everyone will start remembering all of these little things Apple does to sway users to their cause. I use a Mac, and I am very happy with it, but I want to go stick my head in the sand when Apple pulls this crap. I spend a lot of time with my head in the sand.
kalewallace
on Jul 17, 2008
I'm using leopard and MobileMe (retarded name) right now and I'm pissed. I also use Windows nearly half the time anyway and would like a little coherency betwen the two. What a joke... What a double-standard.
weedmonk
on Jul 17, 2008
@Admin Actually the measure of how much of a good point Paul makes is the amount virulent venom spewed forth by the uberFanBoi's. Its been my contention that its their insecurity that fuels them so they can't help it. It's daily grind firing up Safari and scouring the net to protect their self worth.
lotsamystuff
on Jul 17, 2008
I actually agree with Paul. There' s a lot that doesn't make sense here for Windows users. So use Windows Mobile. Seriously, it's not like you don't have a choice. Which is lamer?
lsproc
on Jul 17, 2008
"if you use IE, in which case you can't access MobileMe" Uhh, no, You can access it, you just get nagged.
cesjr
on Jul 17, 2008
"and they get a total pass on this with the press." Really, where have you been, Paul? There's been tons of bad PR for Apple about the MobileMe launch, including the problem with the "push" label. Tons of articles - hardly a "free pass.' Even Pogue noted in this story - "So how is MobileMe? Well, let’s get the ugliness out of the way first: Its debut last week was a disaster that persisted for days. Existing .Mac members were supposed to be upgraded automatically, but many wound up having no e-mail at all for a day or two. There were bugs, glitches and error messages for days, making it one of the most ham-handed launches in Apple history." More importantly, in his zeal to find something, anything, everything bad to say about Apple, Paul as usual misses the the big picture. Apple actually took a major step to make a Mac only product - .Mac -- into a platform agnostic one that is more inclusive of windows users. Is it there yet for mac or windows uers? No. How long has it been out? Oh yea, less than a week.
cesjr
on Jul 17, 2008
Weedmonk - "@Admin Actually the measure of how much of a good point Paul makes is the amount virulent venom spewed forth by the uberFanBoi's. Its been my contention that its their insecurity that fuels them so they can't help it. It's daily grind firing up Safari and scouring the net to protect their self worth." Wow, this post is almost the picture perfect example of a substance-free, 100%-personal attack post. Spoken like a true believer - this idea that the more disagreement Paul get, the more "obviously" true are his statements. Lot of logic in that one, bud.
brostbeef
on Jul 17, 2008
@kale It is definitely a double standard and is why Apple shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. Of course I will clarify that I mean that we shouldn't let Apple apologists or evangelists get away with it. If you want to proclaim seamless integration "magic" than GIVE ME seamless integration "magic".
bquin
on Jul 17, 2008
I have been a Mac user since 1984, and am tired of the compromises I have had to make to stay current in the business world. MobileMe is just another example of Apple hype. My Blackberry works just fine with Exchange and I will stay with it. I have made the break from the Mac and switched to Vista and am very happy with it! Love your podcast with Leo. Listen to it every week. And now I've discovered your blog. Thanks for all your ideas and rants.
brostbeef
on Jul 17, 2008
@cesjr But to reiterate Paul's point about him missing it on the syncing capabilities. You can't tell me he didn't try doing the reverse of syncing PC with a MAC. "Ignoring faults is a lie. Unless of course it's just ignorance. Which may be worse." Either he properly tested and lied or he didn't properly test leading to ignorance. I call that worse.
brostbeef
on Jul 17, 2008
*looking at bquin* I see a shifting in the "Mac Market Share". It's maybe only a few, but there's troubles in the water. I think it's Apple's turn to start doing what they keep blaming Microsoft for not doing.
murdocdv
on Jul 17, 2008
The situation with MobileMe and Internet Explorer isn't acceptable. I would go even further, they should have a down-level version of at least Mail on the Web for IE 6 users. Even though it's not acceptable, that doesn't mean it isn't understandable to some degree from a technical level. But to be clear, theorizing why MobileMe is this way right now is not an apology for it. It has been well publicized that Apple is using SproutCore for all the MobileMe applications. SproutCore heavily uses Javascript, and sorry, but IE 7 Javascript performance is terrible compared to Firefox 3 or Safari 3. Here is one link: http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2008/02/firefox-3-ultimate-feature-performance/ A lot of other javascript performance shootouts have stopped even comparing IE 7 to FF3 or Safari 3/WebKit nightlies, IE's JS performance is not even in the same realm. I am not saying that Apple made the right choice using SproutCore given the level of IE 6 out there (23% according to Net Application in June) and IE 7's JS performance, they should provide a version of MobileMe that works fully with IE if they want those customers. And I am not saying this fully explains their disclaimer of "modern web standards", unless you work for Apple or are following SproutCore closely, you won't know, but the link between IE 7's pokey JS implementation and SproutCore seems nearly obvious. Firefox bookmarks not synching on either platform is just ridiculous and needs to be fixed. As for it being OK for Apple to "insult this majority crowd", that is just absurd, you aren't being injured. MobileMe is a product that Apple gives potential customers a 60-day trial to. If as a Windows user you find that Apple's offering doesn't meet your needs/requirements, you simply don't subscribe to it. If you subscribed and then the service changed and didn't meet your needs, then outrage would be warranted because money had changed hands and the terms of the "contract" between user and service provider have changed. No Windows user is in this situation right now, all Windows users who are interested are sampling MobileMe until at a minimum Sept. 10. The feedback mechanism to Apple is simple, you don't subscribe, they figure out why and either they don't care to address those issues for Windows users or they do to try and attract that kind of customer. It's really pretty simple. Also, anyone with an Apple Developer Connection membership (free) and an Apple ID can file a bug on any Apple product, so if you want to see Apple address MobileMe issues for Windows users, you can simply file a bug: https://bugreport.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/RadarWeb.woa/wa/signIn I would suggest the "Other" product since neither .Mac/MobileMe are in the list.
brostbeef
on Jul 17, 2008
@murdocdv: Just went to file a bug report and GUESS WHAT? I try to log in and got this: An error has occurred. Please report the error to Apple Inc. by emailing the error detail to devbugs@apple.com. Back For more details on the error, click this link Error Detail I tried to click "Error Detail" and nothing happened. GREAT! I love Apple. So capable and dependable. *notice sarcasm*
MLomasIcomm
on Jul 17, 2008
Agreed - I have a Dell Laptop running Vista, I use Vista on my work computer, Leopard on an iMac at home, and just got the iPhone. I don't want to be using cloud computing services that can't work well accross all my stuff - but there's so little out there that does. Using Gmail is fine of course, but Live Mesh isn't up to speed yet, and trying to use SkyDrive on a Mac is also a 'half baked' experience (it requires an ActiveX control for uploading anything more than 5 files at a time). I really hope the future holds something better than vendors trying to drag us in different directions - that's not the promise of the 'cloud'.
BrightrevCarl
on Jul 17, 2008
I may not agree with every single point, but that's a good, detailed and legitimate criticism. While MobileMe is a great idea, there are clearly some big holes in the service, especially from the Windows side. Anyone know if MobileMe works with IE8, which *is* more standards-based? Microsoft has promised LiveMesh for Mac, which I'm guessing will be similarly half-baked on that platform. I'll be interested to compare Microsoft's press coverage if and when that happens.
murdocdv
on Jul 17, 2008
@brostbeef Sorry, I must be missing where the sarcasm is or if your whole post is sarcasm. The link I posted is my bookmark and works for me, but you could go to this: http:///bugreport.apple.com
brostbeef
on Jul 17, 2008
The first part was fact, the last sentence was sarcasm. I don't know what's up that I can't access the service through either of your links, but it just doesn't let me log in. Maybe because I'm on a PC..... :-P
mike.mancuso
on Jul 17, 2008
I believe that the vast majority of reviews on MobileMe’s omission of IE support are being evaluated as a ‘Technology Decision’ as opposed to a ‘Business Decision’. It is a turbulent time for IE with firefox adoption growing and the mass hype placed on IE flaws and non-compliance with open standards. Can you think of a better time to use your loyal customer base to shift to Safari, or at the very least away from IE? So many people say that 80% of users have IE, but what percentage of users has an iPod, or use an iPhone? Personally I can’t see a better time to make an aggressive move to gain market share. Wars are not won by pacifism. Brilliant.
murdocdv
on Jul 17, 2008
@brostbeef That would be a no on the PC because I hit it from my Windows Server 2003 SP2 box before posting that reply to you :-)
johnpapola
on Jul 17, 2008
Okay, Paul... or should I say Mr. Umbrage... here goes my the biggest post ever. First, let me filter out your biased language, hackish jabs, and choice ignorance's to distill the points on which there should be universal agreement: #1. Having the me.com site only render properly in Firefox and Safari isn't addressing the market well, given how many iPhone users probably use IE. Though maybe their own research shows that to be a different. Maybe iPhone users on Windows tend to be Firefox or Safari users. We can't know that. Still. It seems like a bad choice. it's a strategic choice, perhaps, as Microsoft has often made. But one that will frustrate users... which isn't good for a user-driven company like Apple. #2. Not supporting IE for the web, while supporting it for bookmark syncing and excluding Firefox bookmarking is idiotic. Talk about putting users in a bind. What bookmark syncing? Use IE. Want to actually use me.com? Use Firefox. Safari obviously works and is strategic. It's also a really nice, super fast browser, despite your ongoing bashing of it, but it's an also-ran so whatever. #3. Coming out with a rah rah message of "push everything" when in fact the desktop experience is not push was a major blunder. Is it a major user problem? Probably not. Is a 15 minute wait the end of the world? That depends on the use case. Does it invalidate the rest of the service? Obviously not. #4. Not supporting Windows Calendar with MobileMe, and therefore requiring the purchase of Outlook for desktop calendar syncing, is stupid and reduces the functionality of the service for those users that lack Outlook on Windows. Apple should either support Vista's Calendar, or include Outlook with the iPhone. No question. There. That's dispassionate criticism with minimal snark on which we can agree. Now... on to your awful, awful tone and dishonest jabs and omissions. First up... cloud computing. You're a user of Gmail and Google Calendar. Browser-only. Me.com + iPhone/iPod Touch gives you that same functionality with the "exchange for the rest of us" instant push delivery. Given your own use, I'd have expected you to focus on how people may forgo using the desktop applications at all, as you advocate, and dig in on the quality of the Web applications... which are actually really, really good (if a bit slow right now). But you didn't. You just went nuts over Vista's built-in calendar app, which I believe is due for replacement by Windows Live Calendar, correct? I wonder what percentage of iPhone users are even on Vista yet or use the built-in calendar. Oh, and how is the Windows integration and sync experience with Windows Mobile? Why not do a little comparison to that. I'd expect that one the "supersite for windows". Or not, I guess. Next up... Apple's very reasonable and humble apology and 30 day free extension of the service. This was a very nice thing to do, period. For less than a week of role out struggles, we get a full month of free service. And they honestly, and once again in plain language instead of Microsoft-patented marketing speak, explain their mistakes. You've ignored that. You've also utterly ignored the mountain of criticism every shortcoming of the iPhone and MobileMe has received from your alleged "iCabal"... the mac-centric web. Total dishonesty to serve your editorial voice on this site (and to pander to the Apple-bashers that troll these posts). Now... about your own hyperbole... "Apple has a history of over-promising and under-delivering (Leopard's secret features, anyone?)" This statement is an outright LIE in the context of reality and Apple's competitors behavior. Apple's behavior is in ACTUAL REALITY the EXACT OPPOSITE. This criticism is utterly unwarranted and has absolutely no sense of context or proportionality. None. This statement is bull$it. You're singling out a company that has a history of only demonstrating products when they are feature-locked and overwhelmingly shipping them as they've been demonstrated. Are there occasionally (and rarely) a feature or two missing or delayed? Sure. Does it even remotely compare to Microsoft's breathtaking history of "over-promising and under-delivering"? Not by a million miles. Hell, make it a trillion miles. Leopard had new UI features that were secret, like QuickLook, which many of use now use hundreds of times a day. That's just a fact. Oh, and leopard today contains every feature Apple demonstrated... unlike Vista and many of Microsoft's products. Do we really need to review Microsoft's history of failure here (WinFS and beyond?). I don't think so. This is biased crazy talk. Paul, you've been taking other pundits to task for their snark in their blogs. Come on. What hypocrisy. Absolutely, hypocrisy. Criticize Apple for their issues. But don't color the criticism with partisan garbage as you have in the post and countless others, and then cry foul when others do the same. What a joke. "In fact, Apple actually tosses up a nasty message when you try to use IE:" Hmmm... given Microsoft's own efforts with IE8, Apple's dialog box appears to be a statement of pure fact. Does that mean they couldn't have dealt with IE7's issues and hacked together a solution? I don't know. But how is stating reality "nasty". Again, the biased and personal tone here is blatant. As for Pogue's "rah rah"... he's dead on. Non-Windows IE users have been getting these kinds of messages for years on sites written by hacks. It IS gratifying to see the shoe on the other foot in a sense. That gratification isn't rational and isn't in Apple's short-term business interest when so many iPhone users use IE... but this is the game. Microsoft played this compatibility game and leveraged Windows to bully into the browser and server market. Apple's using the iPhone and iPod to try and accelerate the move to open web standards and head off a shift to proprietary plugins. This could also be viewed as strategy. Apple's entitled to try and further break IE's grip on the proprietary wed just as anyone else is. Firefox is free. You even advocate it. ...or they're working on deadlines and didn't get to fully work out the coding kludge necessary to allow MobileMe's engine to run without errors in IE. Either way, this user has seen enough "IE-only" pages in his lifetime to be very much in favor of ANYTHING that helps eliminate browser-specific coding and it's strategic lock-in. "Seriously, where is the outrage? The magic is impressive. That's really all I'm saying here." Um, it's everywhere. Listen to macbreak. Read the actual mac web (without those selective goggles). There was enough "outrage" for Apple to issue and apology and a free month of service. As for "the magic"... what is this? So, the desktop sync take 15 minutes. Oh no! That somehow invalidates the rest of the service? That's how you're painting this. Why the outrage? That's my question. Why are you SO bothered by this? Why are you so thick in the head on this blog that you fail to grasp where the root of Microsoft criticism comes from? Microsoft gets harsh criticism because they're the 90% guy. The proven monopoly abuser. They're goliath. Apple is the 4% guy. The comeback kid. The underdog. They're david. There's no iCabal, and no conspiracy here. It's called human f^$&ing nature. There is no conspiracy here, and there's like no ill will at apple either. There's simply a product, a feature list, priorities and deadlines. Extracting intent as you so often do is a game built on bias. And given that you've defended Rob Enderle to me, the one-man WinCabal that spreads FUD about apple across the thousands of quotes he spews, I find everything about your conduct regarding Apple on this blog to be a hypocritical, incongruous mess compared to your excellent podcast with Leo. But hey, the partisans here seem to be eating this stuff up... so your pandering sure seems to play to the crowd. How nice.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 17, 2008
I think we now have a new, canonical definition of FUD marketing and that is the Apple MobileMe IE7 dialog box. F - Fear - If you use IE7 you are violating standards! U - Uncertainty - We don't actually tell you what won't work. D - Doubt - Will it work? Won't it work? Can you really be sure? Great job Apple. You've brought Personal Computer marketing back to where IBM had mainframes in the 1970s. And that's why 2008 Will be like 1984.
murdocdv
on Jul 17, 2008
Another reason MobileMe rage might be low, even with the launch problems, is that all subscribers have had their subscriptions extended 30-days to make up for the 4-6 day outage, which is a pretty generous downtime multiplier. You can read the entire Apple apology email sent to subscribers yesterday here: http://www.innerexception.com/2008/07/apple-acknowledges-mobileme-migrat... Paul should know this if he is reading his MobileMe mail, or just about any site with Mac news on it yesterday. I think it even reached the MSM.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 17, 2008
@murdocdv The problem Apple apologized for with the 30 day extension was the downtime. The discussion here is on: * The false advertising which Apple is now covering for with a change in spin by their sales force. * The FUD marketing being used to push Safari * The lame and deceptive "review" that glosses over all the problem areas. Perhaps I missed it but I didn't see Apple issue an apology on those. All they issued was a revision to their talking points for their sales staff.
daveinla
on Jul 17, 2008
^ kudos John, on target as usual. And yet another silly venom article from Paul on the winsupersite on which 90% of the readers don't give a damn about Apple products (the 3% guys) and 90% of the other 10% will disagree with his point of view. Besides pleasing your Win fanbois with such article, these same guys don't give a damn about mobile me as they won't ever consider buying it !! Remember, they are the one saying OSX is a toy OS, and iphone is for itards. And yet another Apple bashing article on the long list of the latest Winsupersite blog which should be renamed: notsomuchwinsitebutapplesuperbashsite You might be pleasing your weedmonk, dipsh, jonNT and others but you are boring the non fanbois users who want to read quality article about Windows and want perhaps quality article about what is done on the other side and not childishly bashing the mainstream writers who think different than you. This is maybe why your website audience is dwindling since the last few months where 90% of your article are venom-throwing article on Apple products and writers who dare thinking otherwise than you on Apple products. http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/winsupersite.com
RaaJ
on Jul 17, 2008
Johnpapola, You could have spared us all and yourself the effort of reading that mess of a reply by replacing it with a simple "I am a Mac apologist. I resent your article." Remember, you are reading Paul's BLOG. You know, a place where he can post HIS opinion? Perhaps no one would have chastized Apple if they hadn't so famoulsy worn the "holier than thou" cap both in their Switcher Ads and their customary digs at Microsoft and Windows platform/users in Jobsnotes. Leopard's "secret features".. oooh !! You bring up Vista's failed promise of WinFS and I raise you Leopard's promise of ZFS. Ever taken a peek inside the list of 300 new features on Apple's Leopard webpage? Quicklook like feature has been used in Windows since XP, albeit in a limited scope. Microsoft even expanded this functionality in Office 2007 and Vista - and this is certainly not Apple's patented feature. Of course, Jobs would have you believe it is. You don't believe Microsoft copied Apple in a week to create a Quicklook clone, do you? I believe Paul's jab touched a nerve or two in you. Take a chill pill.
WebGuy3000
on Jul 17, 2008
As a web designer, I've found that there's a 50/50 rule. 50% of any project is designing and refining your page layout, the other 50% is figuring out why it doesn't work in Explorer. You'd be amazed how consistently this is the case. IE7 is better than 6, but still far from standards-compliant. Worse, it respects some of the IE6 quirks-mode hacks, but not others, making it doubly hard to get everything working on both. But it does provide me with a bit of job security, so I shouldn't complain. I have high hopes for IE8 though. BTW, Paul, do you realize that the top nav menu on your Blog section (this section) is seriously broken in IE6? Items display vertically, as a series of rows, instead of horizontally as buttons. I think you should get this fixed, unless you don't care about your IE6-using readers.
chuckb84
on Jul 17, 2008
Paul wonders "where's the outrage." Certainly in his mind and in some of the comments here. I'm not so sure that the market has a similar verdict and that may be what he is so upset about. Since I don't use Windows and don't have an iPhone I'm not in a position to comment on much, but just two small points and one general conclusion: 1. The "up to 15 minute" delay should be read with skepticism, as should any "up to" claim. The checking interval is 15 minutes. That means the AVERAGE delay---a much more meaningful number--- is 7.5 minutes. 2. You can change the sync time. Set it to 10 minutes and then the average delay is 5 minutes. You can't live your life with a 5 minute lag? I'd say change your life. Since you can change the sync interval, there clearly comes a point where sync and push have no meaningful difference. Decide in your own mind where that is and adjust the setting accordingly.
Dipsh t Admin
on Jul 17, 2008
dave, thanks for dragging me in! For the record, I will stay and read sites that I'm interested in and get my Windows news from a variety of sources. I don't simply take Paul's word for it. John, got a question for you: Why the outrage? That's my question. Why are you SO bothered by this? Why are you so thick in the head on this blog that you fail to grasp where the root of Apple criticism comes from? The last question is a little over the top, but the first two stand. So I would say that Paul may be bothered by this because he works in the cloud and has a need for this, and also has experience with both the Mac and Windows, and Live Mesh, etc, etc. That's why he is concerned.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 17, 2008
@RaaJ My favorite part of the "300 Reasons You Won't Actually Read To Convince You That You Shouldn't Feel Screwed That We're Charging You $129.00 For A Trivial Service Pack" was how many of them were tweaks to their bundled applets. Literally a couple of dozen were in the chat utility alone. Some favorites included such major features as: "Warning before closing tabbed window" in Safari, Updated Language Guide and Descriptive Error Messages for AppleScript. (those were 2 separate "Features") Compelling.
Snakedoctor1
on Jul 17, 2008
First off let me say that this launch has not been good, for one reason really. Apple tried to launch a new .Mac service, with MobileMe, let millions of owners of the iTouch, and iPhone – 1 update to 2.0 firmware, launch the iPhone 3G and launch the applications store. BAD MOVE. Now this would have been ok probably if it were not fore their popularity, which Apple should have known considered. So lessoned learned, don’t try to launch 5 things at one time that are very popular. Apologize, extend the service 30 days for free and move on. Ok now to poor Paul. Seriously brother you need to change the name of this site, cuz it’s not about Windows anymore. It’s like a personal vendetta against Apple, and it makes you look like a hack. I mean after reading you for years, you need help. I would never consider picking up a book you wrote because of your bizarre nature here on this blog. Do you even think about all this stuff you write, read over it before you post, test stuff out before you state it like a fact? For example, IE7 works. I cant find one thing I cant do with IE7 on my Me.com account that I can do with Safari. I just created a new photo gallery and posted a pic from IE7 on XP. Its does seem a tad slower. So why the rant about IE7. Apple warns you, and what they said you can do with IE and ME, you can. The calendar stuff and the higher price because you have to buy Outlook. Ok so the most popular OS right now is XP by far, exactly which calendar app does XP come with out of the box? NONE. I know Vista does but honestly who uses it. Outlook on Windows probably is 99% of Windows calendar users, if not more. Last point on this calendar deal, I watched the video, and no where did they calendar sync with anything but Outlook. Again Outlook and ME work as advertised. Also on this subject of the MobileMe service, how many Windows users used .Mac prior to this launch? I would say NONE. No matter what Apple says about supporting PC’s, this is still really a Mac product with support for the most widely used Windows products (outlook). Now the whole sync/push thing. Well to save battery life per MS recommendation, if I set my WM phone for manual and 15min polling intervals AND I add a contact to my phone, will I see it in Outlook right away? No I did not think so. Apple blew this launch with poor planing, but honestly 99% of your rant wont mean jack to joe user, especially Windows users who wont use MobleMe, and their iPhones will work with Exchange EXACTLY like a Windows Mobile phone will only MUCH more elegantly.
Snakedoctor1
on Jul 17, 2008
"BTW, Paul, do you realize that the top nav menu on your Blog section (this section) is seriously broken in IE6? Items display vertically, as a series of rows, instead of horizontally as buttons. I think you should get this fixed, unless you don't care about your IE6-using readers." Or put a warning up when you hit this site:) Better yet rant about it with out really testing it:)
johnbaxter
on Jul 17, 2008
BrightrevCarl: "Anyone know if MobileMe works with IE8, which *is* more standards-based?" MobileMe refuses to try with the IE 8 that is publicly available (and I really shouldn't be using), when it is in IE 8 mode. When it is in Emulate IE 7 mode, MobileMe treats it as it does IE 7--that is, not very well. This one I can't hold against Apple. But MobileMe should certainly be ready for the next round of IE 8, next month. At least on an OK, use at your own risk basis. And I'll be unhappy with Apple if it doesn't. I don't know what happens with whatever version Paul has access to.
johnpapola
on Jul 17, 2008
@RaaJ, I love these kind of replies for the echo-chamber fans. Sorry that rationality and even-handedness is so hard for you to read, buddy. Sorry that your fragile mind was polluted by an alternative point of view. And then, you end on the classic "chill out" as if any response, even a rational one, is just some kind of "proof" of the iPeople getting their panties in a twist. Spare me. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you are going to bash the $hit out of Apple with disingenuous false "outrage" and snark, expect a response. Blogging is about a community conversation. I'm sorry you'd rather it be a windows fanboy circle jerk. But, then, you've offered no real rebuttal to my "mess". Yeah, it's Paul's blog. He's more than entitled to partisan hack it up if he likes. But that's not how he positions himself. He's not claiming to be a street-fighter in the platform wars. He claims to be even-handed... and he certainly rips into Microsoft. But his criticism of Apple is of a different tone. It's more personal. More "outraged". And then, when he's on the podcast with Leo, the mac fan, this outrage vanishes. I'm sorry that you're tone deaf. But these posts are a pandering mess. As for "raising me ZFS"... thanks for proving your ignorance. Apple NEVER mentioned or promised ZFS as a feature of Leopard. Never. So, does that mean you fold? Microsoft dropped large chunks of the promised feature set in Vista. Entire "pillars" of the OS. This is well documented. They have a long, tortured history of paper feature releases that don't make it into the shipping product. Apple as of Jobs return does not. They are tight lipped until they have a working product. You do remember how Job's dropped IBM and switched to Intel when his projection of hitting 3ghz didn't materialize, right? That's how Apple operates. They deliver what they say they will deliver. And on the rare occasion that they can't or don't, they apologize and change. Apple's list is tiny and inconsequential compared to Microsoft's. As for trying to go down some "who came first" rathole with regards to QuickLook... spare me. That's for hack partisan trolls. Paul is claiming that Apple's "secret features" proclamation and subsequent reveal of the new Leopard desktop representing "over-promising and under-delivering". That's quite demonstrably a lie. I'm making no claim regarding quicklook other than the indisputable fact that it was one of the secret features of leopard that many users now can't live without. And I'm sorry that you derive so much personal value from your PC that Apple's ad campaign offends you. It just so happens that the campaign is highly memorable and effective. So effective that Microsoft has acknowledged it's effect and is preparing an "answer". I just love how the users of the 90% platform just LOVE to take umbrage at everything Apple with it's 4% does while calling Apple users lemmings and then claiming that they're irrelevant. What a paradoxical, hypocritical existence.
murdocdv
on Jul 17, 2008
@mikegalos@msn.com Did you read the apology email? Part of the apology was for describing the PC to cloud as "push" when it was automatic sync which happens within 15 minutes. That wasn't the whole basis for the "Exchange for the rest of us" claim, but it was a large part and clearly, again from the apology email, their goal is to get Mac and PC to be push and not automatic sync. Until it is, they won't call it "push", which only seems logical. Does this mean the lack of push on all sides of the cloud promised before launch isn't disappointing, no. But it would only be false advertising if after the product launch they continued to claim the Mac/PC to cloud sync was push, which it isn't, but they clearly aren't doing that. It's poorly managed expectations, but again most users won't care about automatic sync vs. push. As for FUD around MobileMe and IE 7, read my first comment on a possible technical reason. I just did a quick test myself of IE 7 vs. FF 3 on MobileMe, IE is sloooooow, FF 3 isn't. Nothing Apple is going to be able to do about IE JavaScript performance. Apple chose a JavaScript heavy framework, and JavaScript performance is not going get better for IE users until at least IE 8. Just because this is true, doesn't mean its FUD for Apple to warn people of the fact. It is also a well documented fact that IE 7 is not as Web standards compliant by the few objective measures we have than Firefox or Safari. If the framework Apple used was written to the standards, then entirely possible that IE 7 doesn't like something, and they haven't worked around it yet. That is not an apology, just software development reality. They may never work around the IE 7 issues with MobileMe, only time will tell. Again, none of this is an apology, I would not have made the choices Apple has in implementing the Web part of MobileMe to exclude IE 7, but it's their product. As for Pogue's review, Paul's whole point was to bash the automatic sync, and complain about not having Windows Calendar as a sync point because that's free and Outlook isn't. The fact that you need Outlook on the PC for Calendar sync right now is not hidden by Apple. You can surely complain about it, but supporting Outlook instead of Windows Calendar is an easy pragmatic decision to limit scope. Windows didn't have a built-in calendar until Vista, and Vista is not the majority Windows version right now, XP is. The majority of Windows users have Office, so its the smarter move to support Outlook.
Snakedoctor1
on Jul 17, 2008
@johnbaxter please enlighten me on what does not work with MobileMe and IE7, beyond the warning you get. Please.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jul 17, 2008
@murdocdv Apple's change in marketing and mail to their sales staff is fairly compelling admission of false claims. As for "technical reasons" for the IE7 issues, they don't list any. They just do a FUD description of vague bad things that can happen with vague "Web 2.0" sites. Of course, as we've already discussed, the key AJAX technologies (DHTML and XmlHttpRequest) were invented by Microsoft and debuted in IE before Safari was even written (in IE 4 and IE 5.x respectively) and are now "Standards". That Apple blew their web coding is Apple's fault. Period.
Snakedoctor1
on Jul 17, 2008
@Mike wow so MS invented Ajax technologies with IE4 and IE5. That is fantastic, I will tuck that away for the next trivia night at my church. Now jump 5 years up here with us, how well does their support of Java and Ajax work in IE7??? Especially compared to other browsers? Somehow I think the answer to that question will be a tad more important to this subject.
Snakedoctor1
on Jul 17, 2008
I tried is with IE on XP and I get this.... http://www.me.com/unsupported_browser/en/ wow that just like this when using FF3.... http://winqual.microsoft.com/HCL/BrowserNotSupported.html WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE??????????
johnpapola
on Jul 17, 2008
@WebGuy Thanks for putting some real-world context on what support IE and it's (currently) broken standards support means. It makes the honesty of Apple's message on their site that much more obvious (even though they are big enough to deal with the kludge of support IE). @dipsht, Yes, paul works in the cloud. And so does mobileme. The cloud is all push. Use me.com and it's all push, no waiting. He has some very specific gripes, which I agreed with. But his overall ludicrous tone and broad condemnation is what takes this from measured criticism to partisan hack territory. And it's hypocritical. He's all about the "outrage" lately and the "icabal" yet this site reads like a partisan hack-o-rama. How else can you explain his failure to mention Apple's very reasonable 30 service extension. I mean, come on. And yet he calls Pogue out on selectivity. As a .mac subscriber, he got the same email the rest of us did. But that humble apology doesn't fit into the editorial position he's taking in this blog... so he ignores it. Like I said, this is just bull$hit. @mikegalos, sorry to see that you are sounding a partisan hack. Calling Leopard a service pack is straight out of the ignore-the-facts Apple-basher playbook. Man, you guys all sound alike. Just like the alleged "iCabal". @Snakedoctor: Right on. Thanks for pointing out that, for all the "outrage", IE7 seems to work well enough. Oh yeah... and the fact that XP comes with no calendar app at all is a great point. Still, Apple should support the Vista Calendar. Why not? I bet they will.... unless... shhhh.... it's a conspiracy against Vista Calendar. Please. And agreed on the user numbers. Apple may have data showing that Vista calendar is being ignored by smartphone users (who as a group probably own Outlook). But then, that kind of analysis would require discussing "context". Something that Paul's outrage seems to constantly ignore.
rozforwindope
on Jul 17, 2008
As a Mac user, here is my take: 1) Bookmark syncing should support Firefox - you are right to criticize that. 2) MobileMe not supporting true push was disappointing. There are other aspects that need work, like it and the iphone should support subscribed calenders. Hopefully they will address these areas soon, until they are people are right to fault them for it. 3) Apple should try to get MobileMe working on IE but maybe there are real reasons why they can't or at least could not for launch. Still it should ideally be supported - though as a Mac user we get the same treatment from other companies a lot. 4) Pogue likes Macs. So does Mossberg. They try to be objective but they are just not. Can you really blame them? How much of our lives are we supposed to spend on Windows? If you don't like an operating system, if you think it is not as good, how much time does it deserve even if a lot of people use it? I think their coverage of Windows is adequate, but then I really don't care that much. Sorry. In terms of MobileMe, its not perfect at all. Better push is clearly needed and as I said above better support for subscribed calenders. Also the web front-end is not fast enough. All that having been said, and here I am asking a real question, is there a way for an independent user, one without Exchange to do push between a PC and a handset? Because at least on Mac there is no way other than MobileMe. We don't have that on Palm or BB, not at least for someone outside of a company with an IT department. I think the fact that Apple in MobileMe is offering a service that regular people have never had before give them some shielding from getting skewered as another company might. People use the iPhone and are amazed by it. MobileMe syncing is also an amazing feature for people who have never had any kind of push before. And there is the clear potential that issues with it will be addressed. But taken as a whole, the iPhone and MobileMe represent a real step forward in functionality and ease of use available the average consumer.
Snakedoctor1
on Jul 17, 2008
Yes Apple should support Vista Calendar and it probably will, with out a doubt. In fact Vista is more like Leopard in that you have a good email, address book and calendar app that comes with the OS. Which is good enough for 98% of home users. However Outlook is still by huge margin the #1 calendar product used on Windows so I would assume they went for the biggest target. Here is a good article browsers, IE is a DOG. Bigger bars = more time = bad. http://www.linux.com/feature/139212

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