The ‘Mohave’ Experiment

I applaud the web page and the effort, but critics are going to eat this part alive.... "Subjects get a live 10-minute demo"

pfft. Demo. A bunch of people sitting there watching a demo listening to "a retail computer salesperson" does not make a convincing argument. C'mon Paul. If Apple was pulling this you'd be all over them screaming BS left right and center.

@ RunTimeError: Live Demo can also mean a live hands-on session or a test-drive.

@ RunTimeError: "pfft. Demo. A bunch of people sitting there watching a demo listening to "a retail computer salesperson" does not make a convincing argument. " No, but seeing people that have been feed the BS propaganda from Vista bashers actually, after seeing the OS in person, come away with a positive impression, is very much is a convincing argument. Amazing that when you take out the iFilter, the RDF collapses. No wonder you're hate this. "Oh, and I love the fact that this is a BIG EXPERIMENT MEANT TO SHOW PEOPLE HOW COOL VISTA IS BY FOOLING THEM THAT IT'S NOT VISTA..." As opposed to shelling FUD about Vista to people whom have never used it, and expecting them to just take it at face value. Microsoft puts the actual product in front of people, which is scads more honest than some idiotic ad from Apple telling you how bad it is based on what they say. "C'mon Paul. If Apple was pulling this you'd be all over them screaming BS left right and center." For putting their product in front of people and gauging their reaction to it? Ok....

MaryW said: @jvd "When was the last time Apple tried to improve their image by showing the public-at-large demos of OS X?" 32 million visitors to Apple retail stores in the last quarter. Ouch.

@cgdams I do. While I dont see the value in Vista other than the increased security (UAC helping with malware) I also think that Vista is an OK OS now after a year of OS, driver, and software updates. Much of the negativity, now, is hype and MS needs to do something to dispel that and this is a start. It might help....doubtful. However as part of a larger effort it will be a piece in the puzzle.

@cesjr "There's obviously a number of key flaws in this - First, people are told it's a new Microsoft OS - so they probably assume it's more developed/bug-free than the last one. " They are told this in order to counterbalance the strong preconceived notion that these people have that Vista is a terrible OS. It seems that the people in this test have never seen, much less used Vista. They are going in with implanted ideas of what that OS is sight unseen. Tell them it's a new OS, and the preconceived ideas on Vista cant cloud an honest first reaction to the real Vista in person. "Second, it's controlled hardware - with no installation to do. Not exactly a representative experience." Really how many people are buying a PC that they have to install the OS on themselves? In 1993, alot, but this is 2008, and the likelihood is that almost all of these folks will buy a computer with it already set up.

@MaryW - "32 million visitors to Apple retail stores in the last quarter." Most of whom are teenagers hanging out and browsing MySpace and Facebook. At least at the store in my city. --tayme

You don't have to install it. You don't have to hook it up to your network. You don't use it with a wide enough range of activities to come across any problems. In short, it doesn't say a lot. The same could have been done with Firestone tires. People would have liked them more if they had been named Valujet or whatever. But this idea Paul seems to have that it's all due to a disinformation campaign from Apple is not true -- Vista earned its reputation. Maybe it's better now, but I still know dyed-in-the-wool Windows people who consider it hopeless.

" Snakedoctor1 said: "Setup the test with two PC's, Windows XP and Windows Vista. Put 500 picture files, say 3 meg each on each local drive. Have the users copy those files to a Windows server share. Even do it one copy at a time so they dont collide with each other. When its done ask them which they prefer." Wha??? Is this what you have to come up with? Copy files to a Windows server share? Im sure that is an everyday task for your average Windows user. "I said nothing about OS X or Linux???? My point was simply this, a 10min prepared demo wont give you enough of an experience with ANY operating system." Again, where are you getting where they gave a "10min prepared demo"? Do you have some inside info on what the process they used? If you dont, could you please stop using that line. You're really insulting the intelligence of the people who were part of this, whom I assume when they went in with negative impressions of Vista, you've found them to be very savvy computer users who saw the hideousness of the Vista. Now they are dupes that fell for an assumed "a 10min prepared demo". "Now Vista is better and most of the negativity is bs these days. That said, you dont see Apple or any other OS maker is not having to spend 300 million to convince people to buy their products." Apple doesn't have a legion of bloggers, messageboard commentators, biased reviewers, and FUD spin doctors drilling into everyone's heads 24/7 that everything Microsoft does is evil, terrible, junk, crap, mediocre, and what ever other adjective I'm sure you've seen, while these same people do the opposite for Apple. 300 million is the price for MS of not tending to their brand image, and allowing people that really do not like Microsoft to do it instead. I hope they learned their lesson on this one.

@MaryW - "32 million visitors to Apple retail stores in the last quarter." And 2.5 million Macs sold through all channels worldwide. Looks to me like buying a Mac is not exactly a something even a tiny percentage of those visitors did in any of their visits. I wonder how many were bringing the Macs in for a trip to the "Genius Bar" repair center?

""Setup the test with two PC's, Windows XP and Windows Vista. Put 500 picture files, say 3 meg each on each local drive. Have the users copy those files to a Windows server share. Even do it one copy at a time so they dont collide with each other. When its done ask them which they prefer." http://edge.technet.com/Media/Windows-Vista-SP1-outperforms-Windows-XP-S... http://apcmag.com/vista_sp1_up_to_86_faster.htm Don't need to. That's proof enough. "Apple doesn't have a legion of bloggers, messageboard commentators, biased reviewers, and FUD spin doctors drilling into everyone's heads 24/7 that everything Microsoft does is evil, terrible, junk, crap, mediocre, and what ever other adjective I'm sure you've seen, while these same people do the opposite for Apple." Nah.... Just, you know, these websites: www.nytimes.com www.allthingsd.com www.daringfireball.com www.eweek.com www.pcworld.com www.crn.com www.informationweek.com www.engadget.com www.gizmodo.com ....to name a few.... ....and of course the ringleader: www.apple.com Seriously, do you honestly mean that, or is that just another lie from the Apple truthiness tree?

@Waethorn Right... because you're far more unbiased than those publications. The NYTimes and Engadget... not to mention PCWorld and allthingsd have a LOT to learn from you. HAHAHA!

@ cesjr: There's obviously a number of key flaws in this - "First, people are told it's a new Microsoft OS - so they probably assume it's more developed/bug-free than the last one." It's the same as impressionable people assuming that Vista sucks and does not work at all based on Apple's BS FUD campaign. Only now, people could see for themselves that Vista works just fine. "Second, it's controlled hardware - with no installation to do. Not exactly a representative experience." Most of Vista users get their OS pre-installed on a new PC - so your point is moot. Installation troubles on Vista with new hardware post-SP1 needs to be documented, and much of the BS floating around the net has to do with old hardware not working with Vista due to the vendor dropping the ball with providing necessary drivers.

" "That said, you dont see Apple or any other OS maker is not having to spend 300 million to convince people to buy their products." Nah....just give or take a few million - 3 years ago.... news.cnet.com/2100-1047_3-5978598.html" Hmm, let's look at that article even more: Advertising: $247M (up 40%) Capital Costs (including stores): $390M (up 50%) Research & Development: $534M (up 9%) Apple spent more on Advertising and Retail than on R&D and, more tellingly, put most of their growth in their new budget cycle into Ads and Retail and not into making better product. That does say a lot. I wonder just how much the "Get a Mac" ads in multiple languages and multiple markets (with different actors as well) costs? I'd say it's fair to say it isn't down from when this article was done.

@snakedoctor Mac hardware isn't a competitor. According to Steve Jobs, it's just another way of running Windows. Even Steve Jobs recommends running Vista on Mac hardware as a keynote feature point. In fact, he listed THREE ways to run Windows apps as one of the top features of OS X when he did the initial keynote on Leopard.

"Advertising: $247M" Read the first line - it was actually $287M. I'll chalk that one up to a typo though. "Apple spent more on Advertising and Retail than on R&D and, more tellingly, put most of their growth in their new budget cycle into Ads and Retail and not into making better product. That does say a lot." It at least explains why Mac's cost so much anyway....To make up for their overzealous "BUY ME!" campaign.

@mike....you and Paul go to the same school if twisting math to try and make an argument??? Fact is of the figures you gave, more was spent on R&D than was on any other budget item. 144million more. How your weird logic lumps multiple budget line items together, so you can say its bigger than a sing line item so that you then can try to make some kind of point....is beyond me. Using your logic you could do that with any company. The fact is MS is spending at least 200million (possibly 500million) just to combat Vista's bad image. http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1453

@snakedoctor1 Apple lumps them together in their quarterly reports.

@Waethorn "It at least explains why Mac's cost so much anyway....To make up for their overzealous "BUY ME!" campaign." Which would make sense if they had even an underzealous "BUY ME!" campaign. What they have is an overzealous, "YOU NEED A NEW COMPUTER AND THE OTHER GUY SUCKS!" campaign. That's what's pathetic. If they actually did have ads saying "Here's cool stuff that only OS X offers" that would drive competition and new innovation. But, then, Apple would have to put money into R&D that they feel is better spent on ad buys.

Microsoft also spends way more on sales and marketing than on R&D. Most companies do. I don't find this a very compelling argument. Oh, and in Q3 2008, Apple's R&D spending was up 40% over Q3 2007.

"What they have is an overzealous, "YOU NEED A NEW COMPUTER AND THE OTHER GUY SUCKS!" campaign." True. Very true. My mistake. "I meant to say that Apple doesn't have an army of people working 24/7 telling everyone how terrible Apple is." Also true. I'd like to think that Pogue and Mossberg actually had to pay for their MobileMe accounts before they panned it (unlike their gifted iPhwns). ;) "it was reviled to them to have been Vista all along." I think you mean *revealed*. But the other works too in this context. The truth can be "reviling" to the iCabal.

Waethorn, "I meant to say that Apple doesn't have an army of people working 24/7 telling everyone how terrible Apple is." Also true. I'd like to think that Pogue and Mossberg actually had to pay for their MobileMe accounts before they panned it (unlike their gifted iPhwns). ;) What you're mistaken, there's you, Mike, Dipstick Admin, and of Course Paul Thurott himself. Get f-in real. If you actually believe that there are only Mac Fanbois and NO Windows Fanbois pull your freaken head out. As for you Mike, I know that you've been drinkin the Winjihadist Kool aide for so long that you actually think that MSis an innovative company but come on. Apple has been and continues to be an innovative company. Regards Joe Dokes

"What you're mistaken, there's you, Mike, Dipstick Admin, and of Course Paul Thurott himself." Aside from Paul, I don't believe anybody else actually said they paid for a MobileMe account, so you are, of course, wrong....whatever it was you were trying to argue with that nonsensical mess. All I said is that Pogue and Mossberg probably had to pay for their MobileMe account whereas their iPhones were comp'ed by Apple - and look at the glowing reviews they got, despite all their shortcomings. "Well what exactly is the point because your following diatribe on 'unique visitors' and OS X 'demonstrations' is pointLESS and bordering on the inane. What do you think those people hogging the iMacs in Apple stores are doing?" Being pointless and bordering on the inane.

Waethorn, Again I will write in short sentences and small words so you can understand my point. You, Paul Thurott, Dip Stick, MIke, et al (That's, and others in Latin.) believe that their is an army of writers, bloggers, journalists, and commentators who spend twenty four hours a day bashing Microsoft and praising Apple. Paul refers to these people as the iCabal. I merely pointed out that not only are there Apple fanbois, but there are also Windows fanbois, of which you are one. You and your winjihadist crowd spend twenty four hours a day bashing Apple and their products. There is a group of people working very hard to tell people how awful Apple is, and they are you all. Regards Joe Dokes