Vista-to-7 upgrade: 20 hours?

Um, what? In a weird report, Gregg Keizer at IDG News says that upgrading in-place from Windows Vista to Windows 7 "could take over 20 hours to complete, according to Microsoft." This sounded suspicious to me, so I took a few seconds to see if this could be accurate.

Turns out it's another example of sensationalist journalism, and you just gotta love that he chose the "20 hour" bit for his headline. (Actual headline: "Microsoft: Windows 7 upgrades to take 20 hours." Really nice.)

The Microsoft blog post Keizer got this info from concludes with the following:

From the testing we have done, the results show that Windows 7 upgrade time is faster or equal within a 5% threshold to the Vista SP1 upgrade time.

Sounds OK, right? And the point here, of course, is that the Vista-to-7 upgrade experience is excellent. In fact, it's possible to upgrade to Windows 7 in as little as one hour and 24 minutes, again, according to Microsoft. (I'm curious why the headline isn't, "Microsoft: Windows 7 upgrades to take as little as 90 minutes." Wait, no I'm not.)

So where does the 20 hour thing come from? Well, in its bid to be as inclusionary as possible, Microsoft tested a wide range of upgrade scenarios. And on a so-called 32-bit "medium system" (really a "super user" somehow constrained to "low-end hardware"), yeah, it can apparently take all day. (Go figure, but the same PC/person configuration in 64-bits takes half the time, at 10 hours.)

UPDATE: Microsoft updated its post to include this info about the "20 hour" scenario:

The "super user profile" is not a normal user; rather, it's the user profile that represents the extreme power-user who's working with an enormous data set (650Gb of user data) and a large number of installed applications. This user profile is not representative of what most "regular" users, who typically have a much smaller data set and would therefore experience a much, much shorter upgrade time.

What bugs me about this is that it wouldn't be hard to, a) get an actual average of the upgrade time based on Microsoft's figures (hint: Nowhere near 20 hours) and, b) get an average of the upgrade time for scenarios that are in fact realistic for actual customers. In my experience, the Vista-to-7 upgrade takes a couple of hours on actual PCs that have really been used by real people. But I find the Microsoft data here to be overly conservative (i.e. "taking more time than in the real world") for that and another reason: I've performed clean installs of Windows 7 in 15 minutes, 20 minutes tops, and that's true even in virtual environments. But a clean install could take 27 to 47 minutes (according to Keizer, anyway). Seems to me that Microsoft is just covering its bases so it won't hear any complaining from those who try this stuff on borderline PCs.

And its seems like Keizer and/or IDG News are going for the cheap-shot headline. Let's leave that stuff to the blogosphere, eh?

Discuss this Article 127

EricoF3
on Sep 14, 2009
@ panache1023 said: "Waethorn, I didn't "give a hissy fit" I was pointing out something that's clearly obvious." It's nice to see how things are always so *Clearly Obvious* in Apple *Fanatics* minds... D'oh
lketchum
on Sep 14, 2009
@Logjamming No. What I am saying is that if you are in the position that you are supporting many users with different system configurations, as we are, then my advice is to allow the data and testing to shape what you do and what your baselines are. Seeking to elevate the discourse up and out of just opinion, or advocacy from one platform over another, I am sharing what practical considerations drive our decisions and reporting some of our observations. The scientific method used in other sciences (Experimentation, Observation, and Publication), applies as well to computer science. If you're just an end user with an opinion based upon a different set of needs and criteria, that's fine, too, but it is a different conversation and one I am less interested in participating in.
Waethorn
on Sep 14, 2009
"Anyone that knows someone that uses Apple products could easily have a problem with their friends / family / loved ones being ridiculed by Paul Thurott, when all they wanted to do was read a review of software." So in turn, you're accusing anyone of using Apple's products as being one of "Apple's most fanatical fans"? WOW! Ocean, care to comment?
panache1023
on Sep 14, 2009
Waethorn, No, my wife nor I are anywhere near fanatical about Apple and their products. I'd love to see your reaction as soon as a source says something along the lines while reviewing any MS software. I understand that the word "Fan" is short for "fanatic", however in everyday use, their really are not the same thing. There are sports fans, and there are FANATICS that know everything about the team the follow and get defensive about it, etc. However, you react the SAME WAY as soon as anything by MS is knocked in any way. You are being extremely hypocritical. And you think I am close to being a fanatic because I don't think Paul needs to spew venom while rating a program by Apple?! What the hell kind of logic is that?! What you guys are doing is the same thing as a person that uses the "N-word" to describe SOME black people, but then say, "They aren't all like that"... "We're talking about the Apple FANATICS, not all the other Apple customers we can brain dead for buying their hardware, or the others that think Apple is innovative when all they are really doing is copying MS" whatever, you guys are really ridiculous
panache1023
on Sep 14, 2009
EricoF3, What is your problem?! Someone can't have an issue with Paul Thurott's venom? You must be a Paul Thurott fanatic! Defending everything he says and licking his shoes when he posts a software review that you enjoy. Wow, such a FANATIC. D'oh!
panache1023
on Sep 14, 2009
Waethorn, Maybe you need to think back about all the things you've said about Apple and their customers in the past, and then tell me when you spout that crap, you are only talking about a select group of "FANATICS"
chuckb84
on Sep 14, 2009
More and more Paul reminds me of Glenn Beck. He is in his own little world, a world where he thinks this: "Paul Thurrott runs the SuperSite for Windows, which has been described by Microsoft as the most influential Windows-oriented Web site in the world." THE most influential! Sad commentary, then, on Windows-oriented web sites. The proprietor of said site has slipped his moorings...
Dipsh t Admin
on Sep 14, 2009
@Mike, I think Windows 3.1 was actually only about 5-8 disks, while I think I do remember 95 being about 12-15, depending on whether they were formatted in DMF or not. Either way, I certainly don't miss those days.
lazysquirrell
on Sep 14, 2009
Logjamming I think it's best you keep working with MS products. Most of us have moved on to better stuff that actually works http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=snow+leopard+problems&meta= :)
EricoF3
on Sep 14, 2009
panache1023 said: "What is your problem?! Someone can't have an issue with Paul Thurott's venom? You must be a Paul Thurott fanatic! Defending everything he says and licking his shoes when he posts a software review that you enjoy. Wow, such a FANATIC." I am not licking anything... I am just defend what Paul said because it is true... When I think what he say is not true I tell, and When I don't know or I don't care I just don't write anything so... GFY mister *Fanatic* and please stop to do projection on me!!
lketchum
on Sep 14, 2009
Could it be that Paul is poking harmless, good natured fun at Apple and the company's fans in equal measure to the fun he pokes at Microsoft, its missteps and fans? Nah... couldn't be that... You know, it is entirely possible that Apple, as its success and market continue to grow, that they too, just as any really big public company can and does, will mess up from time to time. It's also very possible, that the diversity within the market that Apple serves, owing to success and massive growth, isn't going to be able to offer the same consistently great experience that the company has become known for. As the variables increase in number, the challenges and instances of individual and group failures are going to go up. Poking fun around the edges is to be expected, accepted and should be embraced. Toss all that "good humor" against the cold hard realities that business and enterprise users face, and you can begin to see why channel focus is so important (say winsupersite for consumers and WinITPro for business - sorta how it is now...). Where it all comes apart is right here in the middle - in and among our comments and a not at all easy to reconcile dichotomy of conflicting and often confusing interest. I think credibly, Paul addresses this dichotomy well. The/our issues and interests deserve spirited debate. Individual contexts trump all else. We each fight our own 6 inch IT battles.
crankenstein
on Sep 14, 2009
Why are the Apple fanatics complaining about a site for Windows not praising Apple products to the hilt?.... This IS "The Supersite for Windows"... get it, It's a WINDOWS site? You Apple users aren't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed are you? No wonder Apple's able to brainwash you guys so easily.... You have the brain capacity of a house plant :)
Grannyville
on Sep 14, 2009
Just looking at them now. Windows 3.1 is made up of 6 floppies. However, I never had to use the 6th one whenever I installed it. Curious...
Waethorn
on Sep 14, 2009
"However, you react the SAME WAY as soon as anything by MS is knocked in any way." Wrong. I don't go to Apple-centric websites (like daringfireball, AllThingsD, or the NY Times) and start slamming the author, calling what he posted "drivel", sorry. @granny: If I remember correctly, the last disk in each set was network drivers.
Grannyville
on Sep 14, 2009
@Waethorn Thanks for the info :)
jecouch66
on Sep 14, 2009
EricoF3..I think the reason he may not be able to understand you is that your grammar and spelling are atrocious. I actually have to read your posts twice to get the meaning sometimes. You might consider putting the post in Word first and running a grammar and spell check on it. I am not saying that to be mean, just a suggestion as I think it would get your point across better. I mean no one is perfect and we all are less mindful of such things on a blog post; but wow, getting through some of those was rough..:)
jecouch66
on Sep 14, 2009
I tend to agree with Panache (on this matter), and I'm certainly not an Apple fanatic. I don't see the need for the constant bashing of the "apple lemmings" unless the purpose is to stir up the pot; which I suspect is the goal. I just ignore it since this is a blog; it's basically Paul's view of the world. Just as, on the rare occassions I have to read Apple blogs, I ignore the jibes and verbal abuse they extend.
Ocean
on Sep 14, 2009
"you're accusing anyone of using Apple's products as being one of "Apple's most fanatical fans"? WOW! Ocean, care to comment?" Paul uses Apples products.
Waethorn
on Sep 14, 2009
"Maybe you need to think back about all the things you've said about Apple and their customers in the past" You mean being about being naive? You fit the bill. Your attitude to which you so furvently defend isn't reflected on the Windows side. Sorry. That's being naive. What I see in most Apple users is this brainwashing that Apple does with their advertising of half-truths and mostly lies, and yet they use those claims as justification for overcharging. And naive consumers eat it up. It's dishonest business, and that's what I have a problem with. If Steve Jobs was selling life insurance, would you buy it from him?
panache1023
on Sep 14, 2009
Crankenstein can't understand the difference between saying, "iTunes 9 sucks", and "iTunes 9 sucks, and all the braindead, brainwashed, Apple fanatics will love". Maybe *YOU*, Crankenstein, have the brain capacity of a house plant. lketchum, If you can show me ANYWHERE that Paul refers to MS fanatics (ie, WinJihadists, or anything like that) as braindead, or lemmings, or anything along those lines, I'll agree with you.
panache1023
on Sep 14, 2009
Waethorn, You said, "Your attitude to which you so furvently defend isn't reflected on the Windows side" I challenge you to look in the direction of Mike Galos, lketchum, or in the mirror.
runner7775
on Sep 14, 2009
@waethorn Thanks for the response, I just remembered the mention about hotkeys from another online article or something, but I can't really think of any at the moment. Anyway, I think they just hold back on the drivers so when people need phone support the different configurations of drivers will be small. Still unacceptable though. One more reminder of why drivers matter: My old Inspiron 6000 with windows XP uses video drivers that were last updated in October 2005(Mobility Radeon X300). HD video from iTunes is extremely choppy with the old drivers. Upgrade to a driver released last August or newer and iTunes HD video is smooth. Itunes definitely is part of the problem but immediately after the upgrade it works great. The only problem is that it is hard to find the modded drivers.
panache1023
on Sep 14, 2009
Waethorn, Steve Jobs isn't selling life insurance. The point is, as soon as ANY commenters on this board say ANYTHING negative about MS, you jump to the defense as if someone is insulting your child. Meanwhile, the amount of people that criticize the USERS of MS is small compared to the number of people that criticize the company itself. You want to criticize Apple, I don't care, as soon as you (general "you", not you specifically though it does fit), lump ALL users of Apple products into one bin as dumb, naive, or whatever, it becomes a problem. No one is asking you to love Apple...but come on! The fact that you can defend the insulting of millions of people in one fell swoop is absolutely absurd, AND disturbing. Even Mike Galos doesn't do that, and he is the most furvent MS defender there is.
EricoF3
on Sep 14, 2009
@jecouch66: Yeah I know I am French... Thanks for the comment...
daveinla
on Sep 14, 2009
Funny comment on Slashdot: "Basically, in my experience, Windows is sort of like a giant ball of playdough rolling down a city street - it gets dirtier and heavier over time, less appealing and not so colourful, not to mention the used condoms and syringes it occasionally picks up, and so you need to break out a new batch of playdough once in a while. I'm not saying that this is right and that it's a reason to not get angry about these results, but can you imagine the tubs of crap that are being sloshed around in the bowels of your computer when your two-year-old Vista install is being digested for 20h? Are you going to get a pretty result, all clean and good with everything working? Will you be able to uninstall something that didn't quite make it when all is said and done? Just start clean, it's easier on the conscience..."
chuckb84
on Sep 14, 2009
iketchum, "Could it be that Paul is poking harmless, good natured fun at Apple and the company's fans in equal measure to the fun he pokes at Microsoft, its missteps and fans?" No. This is the writing of a shill who earns his living from Microsoft's table scraps, and has become unbalanced by Apple's current success. A few examples, by no means a comprehensive list of blog entries: Rotten Reporting about Apple The Apple iTunes Tax Apple Tax 2.0 Apple: Our advertising is clearly bull@#$%. Clearly. Apple forced to drop iPhone ad in the UK $500 million in advertising??? Did I use the Jump the Shark joke already? Why Opera Didn't Make It on the iPhone Apple is evil, part 227 Apple's culture of lies finally dawns on a surprisingly unsuspecting world The 'blame anyone but Apple cadre,' Part 217: AT&T Apple's culture of lies, Part 2: A different way of looking at it How Mac fanatics see the world Microsoft: Celebrate Tax Day by avoiding the Apple Tax Rotten Reporting Confirmed: Satan is a Mac user Did Apple Just Lie to the FCC? Apple/Google Collusion Might Be Worse than Originally Reported Apple’s $1.8 billion iTunes tax iPhone's touch screen a short-lived fad? The Simpsons Skewers Apple, Their Fanatics These are even more amazing if you read the contents. The systematic distortions, the cherry-picking, the half truths, the obvious bias....it's all pretty amazing. Don't ever pretend that there is any sort of "equal measure" or that Paul is a "journalist". He makes money from Microsoft's success, and he has decided that part of optimizing that success is to attack Apple (and Google, the EU, et al). You may like the writings of a partisan hack-----some people probably like Glenn Beck---- by Paul and Glenn are each about a half step away from Howard Beale.
rr0de74@live.com
on Sep 14, 2009
"Could it be that Paul is poking harmless, good natured fun at Apple and the company's fans in equal measure to the fun he pokes at Microsoft, its missteps and fans?" Nope. Paul has a freakish problem with Apple. His childish writing style is why he does not write for the NYT like David Pogue. Good examples of why he is so loved....The first one is really good. http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/01/18/dan-lyons-paul-thurrott-the-fak... "Thurrott has lived the majority of his adult life bitter and angry about Apple." http://daringfireball.net/2006/08/jackass_paul_thurrott http://philnelson.name/2008/11/23/the-jackass-continues-paul-thurrott/
EricoF3
on Sep 14, 2009
@daveinla: lol ... Yeah but, peoples install all free crap they find on the net and after they tell their Windows System is like a ball of playdough rolling down a city street!!! It is the same for OSX if you installa ll crap arround that add itself in the start up this will really slow down OSX... THe only thing this is not a problem on the Mac it is because there is not a lot of software to run on it so...
jecouch66
on Sep 14, 2009
@jecouch66: Yeah I know I am French... Thanks for the comment... Ah, sorry, I didn't realize that. I apologize then.
rr0de74@live.com
on Sep 14, 2009
@Chuck "He makes money from Microsoft's success". At some point last year, probably before he decided to to a Windows 7 Secrets, Paul called Windows 7 and minor update to Vista more than once. He even quoted MS employees as saying the same thing. Then (probably after MS told him to) he drastically changed his tune, and surprise, Windows 7 secrets was announced. In the days leading up to Aug 28th Paul put anti more than a few Ant-Apple/Snow Leopard pieces, again during his part as a faithful solider in the MS army of fud. As a good friend of mine always says.....follow the money. Hence post some flame bait crap and watch the clicks rise.
daveinla
on Sep 14, 2009
True Erico that they're aren't as much free crap to install on the Mac than on the PC... But 2 things are greatly different on the Mac: * The free stuff on the Mac are usually very high-quality and you can be 99.99% sure they don't contain spyware or other crap. * They almost never install any startup elements that will bloat you OS over time.... To check that, just go to Preferences-> Accounts-> login items and delete what you want otherwise...
whiplash55
on Sep 14, 2009
I heard about this 20 hour install on a Linux Podcast I listen too. Like the great Vista DRM scare it's based on pure crap. I did do an in place upgrade using my old early core 2 machine 1.83 GHZ 4 gigs of ram with around 550 ggigs of data, mainly photos,music and video. It took an hour and 20 minutes, quite a bit longer than the fresh installs I did but considering the number of applications I use on a multi-user machine the 1:20 install wasn't bad. Whats even more impressive is how well it works, When I do finally upgrade this machine in October I will do a clean install, but I found the upgraded machine performed much better than Vista and it worked better than anytime I've done an upgrade install before.
Ocean
on Sep 14, 2009
>>This is the writing of a shill who earns his living from Microsoft's table scraps, and has become unbalanced by Apple's current success.<< >>His childish writing style is why he does not write for the NYT like David Pogue<< If we're asking him not to insult us, we shouldn't insult him in turn. But the Pogue thing is interesting. Pogue doesn't write just about Apple. In that he's different than Bott and Thurrott...or as I like to call them: ThurrBott :) He writes about Vista, about Twitter, about Digital Photography,...he's a technology hack...not a OS hack. http://www.amazon.com/$seoName/e/B000AP8Q6U/ref=sr_tc_2_0
EricoF3
on Sep 14, 2009
@jecouch66: I am French but I try to communicate in English... So I am really sorry about my bad English, I will try, in the future, to put my text in orthographic software before sending it in the blog... I think the most important thing is to try to communicate ... And this is helping me to learn better English and that help me to be better in English ... Really sorry if you have difficulties to follow me :)
smiddlehurst
on Sep 14, 2009
Umm, about that whole 'doing upgrades with iTunes installed doubles the upgrade time' thing from the start of the comments section. This might be me being silly but by removing iTunes would you not also be removing the iTunes library, thus removing potentially THOUSANDS of files and Gigabytes of data from the install? Would that not account for the extra time required? Anyway, on the topic, I don't actually see much wrong with the original article in that it reports what Microsoft themselves say - it can take over 20 hours to do an upgrade. Sure, they classify that as a super user but I can't help but wonder at that. 650Gb isn't actually that much data in a world where digital camcorders and 12 Megapixel cameras are the norm, where it's almost trivial to get digital copies of films on hard drives, where games take up multiple gigabytes of space just to install. And as for 40 programs being a lot... again, I'm not so sure. The office suite, IE, Firefox, antivirus, anti-spyware and a couple of utility applications for fancy keyboards, mice, printers etc could easily account for 15 or so apps. On top of that you've got digital media programs for pictures, video and audio, probably a slew of shovelware that came free with the PC, some stuff that you've tried for the heck of it and not bothered to remove... it adds up pretty quick. Then, of course, you've got games. Any serious gaming PC could have more than 40 games installed at one time quite easily, more if you include demos too. Basically, that power user scenario on medium grade hardware might not be as far-fetched in the home (where, let's face it, most upgrade installs will happen) as you may think.
Ocean
on Sep 14, 2009
Eric of 3, when I had to learn a second language, what was most helpful to me was when native speakers (kindly) pointed out the mistakes I made. You're right, attempting is the best thing to do. I put in all caps the changes you might want to make next time. >>I think the most important thing is to try to communicate <<... It flows better if you say "I think the most important thing TO DO is to try to communicate >>Really sorry if you have difficulties to follow me :)<< I'M really sorry if you ARE HAVING ANY difficulty FOLLOWING me :)
evgenij
on Sep 14, 2009
Wow, look at all these Apple trolls running all over the field.
EricoF3
on Sep 14, 2009
@Ocean: Thanks a lot Ocean... You are nice to try help me rather than sending me baldness... Ok so If I understand well the major errors I made is bad verb tens isn't it?
rr0de74@live.com
on Sep 14, 2009
Pogue has "tact", which earns him respect, which earns him a better job. Amazing how that works.
panache1023
on Sep 14, 2009
And here comes evgenij, contributing ZERO while continue the problem. It's so WEIRD how all these people claim to have issues with attitudes on "Apple fanatics" and have no problem saying things like "here are the Apple Trolls", or "You're so naive" If you have a problem with someone's attitude, and you exhibit THAT EXACT SAME BEHAVIOR, what does that make you?!
jecouch66
on Sep 14, 2009
@Ocean: Thanks a lot Ocean... You are nice to try help me rather than sending me baldness... Sigh. In my original post I said my suggestion was not meant to be mean. I thought I was being nice by offering you a method to better communicate. When you said you were French learning english, I said I didn't know that, and apologized. Not sure what else I can say...
jecouch66
on Sep 14, 2009
@smiddlehurst Anyway, on the topic, I don't actually see much wrong with the original article in that it reports what Microsoft themselves say - it can take over 20 hours to do an upgrade I think the point was that the title of the article, "Microsoft: Windows 7 upgrades to take 20 hours", was misleading..and it clearly was.
Waethorn
on Sep 14, 2009
"I challenge you to look in the direction of Mike Galos, lketchum, or in the mirror." I'm not the masochist, coming to a website in which I voluntarily count myself in a group where I consider the author to be insulting me.
panache1023
on Sep 14, 2009
Waethorn, You are missing the point. And the statement you quoted me as saying was in regards to your love of everything MS.
Waethorn
on Sep 14, 2009
"Pogue has "tact"" Ya, tact is comparing Windows Vista to OS X when Microsoft announced features in the beta years before when Apple announced nothing and haphazardly released those features early, ie. copied them from Microsoft. Ya, that's "tact". :P
evgenij
on Sep 14, 2009
Panache, This is a Windows site dedicated for Windows. There are many people, including me, who love this site and love to read the blog. We LIKE how Paul writes and what he says. What do you not get about this? If you do not like the way Paul runs his blog or his site then do not come here. If you DO come here EVERY DAY to complain then you ARE a troll. It is impossible to contribute anything with trolls like you on this site, complaining day and night about Paul and his "unfair" reviews.
chuckb84
on Sep 14, 2009
Follow the money is almost always correct. "But the Pogue thing is interesting. Pogue doesn't write just about Apple. In that he's different than Bott and Thurrott...or as I like to call them: ThurrBott :) He writes about Vista, about Twitter, about Digital Photography,...he's a technology hack...not a OS hack." Yah, David makes a living writing about TECHNOLOGY, not about a single company. Paul reflexively defends Microsoft because it is central to his livelihood. That's why Apple and Google are in "collusion" but the Microsoft/Yahoo thing is totally different, why a Zune store, that will function just exactly like the Apple app store that he routinely deplores, is just logical and utterly reasonable. That's why Windows 7 is an upgrade of astonishing importance (even though a year ago Paul described it as Vista 1.5) and Snow Leopard is "a debacle". "We LIKE how Paul writes and what he says. What do you not get about this?" As I said, some people like Glenn Beck. Just don't pretend that his commentary is anything more than what it really is. "It is impossible to contribute anything with trolls like you on this site, complaining day and night about Paul and his "unfair" reviews." Paul has said that this site is about "the future of Windows". If he really wrote about that, the most amazing thing would happen: All the so-called trolls would vanish.
austrianeconfan
on Sep 14, 2009
I upgraded my girlfriends old 1.6 GHz Intel Pentium M 730 notebook with about 30GB of data on it from vista to win7 rtm a while back and it took about 2 hours. A machine any older than that shouldn't be getting win7 and certainly not an upgrade. Works great btw no issues.
Ocean
on Sep 14, 2009
>>You are nice to try help me rather than sending me baldness... << No problem...I got a lot of help when I was learning and I am happy to return it. About the sentence above: "You are nice to try help me rather than BEING MEAN TO ME". >>If I understand well the major errors I made is bad verb tens isn't it?< If I understand YOU well, the major errors THAT I made WERE bad verbS THEN, RIGHT? And yes, conjugation. Always was a problem for me.
Ocean
on Sep 14, 2009
>>If you do not like the way Paul runs his blog or his site then do not come here.<< I like all but about 5%. So as a consumer, I have the right to fuss about that 5%. Trust me, business owners (and make no mistake - this is a business to Paul) love feedback from their audience. >>Paul has said that this site is about "the future of Windows". If he really wrote about that, the most amazing thing would happen:<< He'd turn into Mary Jo Foley. No, I don't read her much either.

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