Windows 7: RTM in July, GA on October 22, 2009

Cool but...how much is it going to cost retail? That will determine how excited I am going to get.

I find this strange. I mean, they could have done this in time for back to school sales and gotten a huge start on Win7 from first years looking for laptops. I don't know too many people who buy boxed OS's at all - especially students. They use whatever comes on the computers they buy. MS should have shot for August. Oh well, Xmas is only a couple of months after the release.

I apologise for the many typos in my last post. I think my keyboard batteries are dying : )

I would expect that most Vista machines sold in the back to school timeframe will include an upgrade to Windows 7 at no extra cost as they'll be in the usual timeframe for OEMs to offer this. As for Apple, I think they normally only give 1 months worth of retrospective upgrades (I got burnt by 1 week on a Mac Mini purchase with Tiger a while back). My Mac OSX friends seem somewhat unexcited by Snow Leopard so far but if could be that Apple is holding back all the main features in a big way (though how they come out properly tested at the other end I'm not sure).

"@fishyuk Do your Mac friends have any opinions on Windows 7?" My Mac user friends like it so far. But they're not the fanatical, "Microsoft is evil!!!" types.

@Grannyville: I highly doubt it. I've been playing with the betas, and 10.5 to 10.6 is even less of an upgrade than 10.4 to 10.5 was. I'll be glad to move to Snow Leopard simply because Leopard is buggy as all hell and SL seems to fix some of that. It looks like WIndows 7 is going to be a big improvement (at least in the public perception) over Vista, and hopefully will get the XP stalwarts to upgrade. And as I Mac user I'll tell you Windows 7 looks very good to me. But then, I never thought Vista was bad.

You have all some really good points. I'm glad that I signed up to this blog shin-dig : ) I'm very interested what 10.6 will be like. WWDC - watching that the day after I finish my exams! :-D Also, I agree with Leo Laporte in that WIndows 7 is the best version of Windows to date. Apart from Windows 3.1. No application has really been the same since that Clock App (sigh)

Leopard hasn't been buggy at all for me on my Pro Tower and on an old upgraded G4. Nor has that been the opinion of any of my friends. However, the only problem that we've had with Vista was actually 3rd party Active X stuff, and one VPN issue that was quickly resolved. I must say that I'm shocked that most of my IT friends have not tried Win7. Those that did, like it. I was expecting more from these geeks, although some have switched to Macs. Our Head IT doc of the 3 hospital system just bought a MacBook Pro. Funny how VMware is on it. Gee, what could he be running? ;)

Some vendors could give upgrade coupons to Win 7, so that the back to school crowd is not missed. That could be the best of noth worlds as you would have a choice to do it.

tayme "But they're not the fanatical, mikegalos types" Wow. I don't even have to post anymore for you to bring me up i conversation. That crush you have on me is so cute.

I'm actually very tempted to get a MacBook as my next laptop for the best of both worlds. And also, because the quality of build with Apple PCs are generally very good and I've had a very good experience with their support. (Unlike HP with my experience) Maybe if my father REALLY loved me, he'd buy me one for my birthday.

That's way off from your prediction that it would be released in April, 2009. Nice try though. Well, not really. It's way, way off the mark. But then again, this place has jumped the shark years ago.

@shark47 @tayme: "My Mac user friends like it so far. But they're not the fanatical, "Microsoft is evil!!!" types." You two come here and spread lies, lies and more lies. Neither of you have friends. You are in your bedroom, with your dolls, while your mummy feeds you pizza and reassures you by lying to you, saying that you are cool and one day you will have a friend.

You are right mikegalos...its a crush. I especially like the way your arrogance shows when you posted this **TODAY** - so much for your lies about not posting anymore!!! "" So I guess it's only OK to marginally change the topic if your name is "mikegalos"" Yes." --tayme

@tayme: Mike can't get anyone to read his own blog, that's why he loves hanging out here.

@shark - I'm not saying anything was wrong with your post...jsut pointing out the obvious parallel. You know, I do have a man crush on mikegalos, right??? --tayme

Wow Mike, that's incredible news. I think free upgrades are better since you don't need to fear a new OS, and you can upgrade when it's track record is more proven. Smart move by MS. Buy now, upgrade when your ready. Thanks Mike, Doc PS I go to your site every once in a while.

Yeah tayme, this is smart timing and smart business. I'm one of those guys that would rather have the upgrade option available, then use the one I prefer. I always end up preferring the latest. I may be a jock doc, but there is plenty of geek in me. OT, last night's HIM IT meeting was mostly woman, and not one netbook. The guys seem to buy them. Interesting.

Since we're talkin Win7, I see that the ZYNX, computed physician order entry system does need seem to work on my Mac or iPhone. If it works on WinMo 7, many docs would prefer to add orders on a smartphone, rather than call in a verbal order, which is a pain to reach the nurse and must be signed within 24hrs. Our time is valuable and many current iPhone owner would jump to WinMo 7. It would be a no-brainer to docs that admit to the hospital. I would also bet that it will work with WinMo7 since even it works with IE 6.

@gavers did you upgrade to Leopard over the top of Tiger? The few people I know of that have had Leopard problems, had them because they either went over the top tiger, or some app they used a lot was not Leopard ready. In the case of the apps, all of them were known to NOT to be Leopard ready. I personally on the 3 macs at my house have had zero problems with Leopard. The only app that gives me problems on the Mac these days is FireFox. I seen that "were sorry" after a crash FF box to often. I see both 7 and SL equally as exiting but for different reasons. 7 is reason to get off XP for so many reasons. 7 is Vista they way it should have shipped. Hardware is very cheap and more powerful almost 3 years after the Vista launch. XP while still the #1 installed OS is dead, the writing is on the wall (April 2009) and its not going to change for the 7th or 8th time. SN ends PPC and 32 bit OS X for Mac. It dumps tons of redundant code for the PPC which has already shown improvements both in speed and disk space savings. I think unlike 7, there are lots of SN we dont know about. I think it will get a GUI change that will possibly announced next week. Lots of rumors around this with people expecting to see each time a new developers release comes out. The Quick Time updates, are going to be very nice with the pro version in the OS now and the ability to record what you are doing on the computer. Lastly from a corporate standpoint I am looking forward to the native Exchange integration that Mail, iCal and Address book are supposed to have. We have two departments of Mac's that will be very happy to ditch Entourage as soon as possible. Should make for some good heated conversation on the Winsupersite.

I'm really excited for Windows 7! I've been using it since the beta, and my only gripe is that Punkbuster doesn't support it. Now I just need to wait till late October...

tayme That's very amusing. First off, my comment was actually saying that Apple's SOS was mostly a result of things inherited from Unix. (And that was in reply to Waethorn replying to bettieblu who made a comment truely blindly bashing Windows Mobile. Now as for my comments being blind bashing, I've explained the problems with Unix on many occasions here. I've also explained how pathetic it is that when Apple was incompetent at producing a modern operating system (See "Pink", "Gershwin", "Copland", "Taligent") they decided to fall back on what was then an ancient and obsolete design. As to problems with Unix (and as a result, OS X, Linux and the other *ix designs) I'll give a few examples. There are many, many more, many of which are available in The Unix Hater's Handbook which is now available online. But here's a start. A core architecture that assumes all data is a serial stream of ASCII characters being sent over one of three data channels. (stdin, stdout, stderr). And while much modern work has been built on top of this, it all has this as the underlying framework and has to keep it or core utilities break. A core security architecture that has insanely coarse granularity, limited levels of permission and a group structure that reflects the idea of a few users on teletypes. And, again, while much modern work has been built on top of this, it all has this as the underlying framework and has to keep it or core utilities break. An API that was built not by design but by what could only be called a folklore. For example, does a null return code signify success or failure? No way to know. It depends mostly on what professor was teaching the Intro to OS Design class that did it as a class project. A set of command line utilities designed for ease of typing on a 10CPS Teletype attached to a 110 baud modem. Not using a 10CPS Teletype on a 110 baud modem? Maybe you shouldn't be using an OS designed for that. The result being commands that are not mnemonic but are confusingly case sensitive. (Quick, on the insanely named "ls" command, what do I get if I use the -LAsf options? What about if I use -laSf? Commands that were designed with a single data stream in mind. For example, what's the command shell command for listing all the configuration choices that involve file type association? Can you use the same object system commands you'd use for other object's properties? What? The commands don't understand objects? I guess that's because they were locked in before Object Oriented Programing was even invented. That's a start. Hardly, "blindly bashing" is it?

tayme It's amusing that robertsjoe thinks he's a great mind but even moreso that he's sure that you and he think alike. I'm starting to agree on the latter.

@mikegalos - And yet, Unix is running large OLTP and other systems in real ***production*** datacenters all around the world. Obviously, you haven't been in a real ***production*** datacenter - other than Microsoft's - which by no means is a slouch - in a long, long time. zOS is also running many OLTP systems and does so just fine. Just because an OS is old...and not as shiny and Windows and OS X does not make it useless. Programmers on the other hand <-- ;-) I understand that you are a paid Microsoft evangelist, thus expected to make these posts...its understandable you got to pay the bills, But, where I work, we use what is best for the job...and that is not always a Microsoft product, in many cases it is, but not always. Sorry to burst your bubble. In your little world, Microsoft is the only logical choice for EVERY situation...and that, sir, is utterly stupid. I will say, though...we have yet to find a use for OS X in the datacenter and only or marketing group uses OS X on the desktop. That is not by necessity, but by artistic opinion, for lack of another phrase. For a home user, OS X and some Linux distros are every bit as good as Windows...it comes down to personal preference. For some reason, you seem to feel that people should not be able to make that choice...or if they choose something that is not Microsoft, you are better than them. Whatever...that is your arrogance, not your intelligence talking. --tayme

tayme Actually, I'm not currently paid by Microsoft. Sorry. Try again at coming up for reasons to ignore the very valid points I made. (Not that who I worked for would have changed the facts but at least you'd have been right while irrelevant)