Windows Mobile at PDC

Windows Mobile? Really? 6.1? That's already out, so its not exactly "new". Plus unless the new feature of the next version is "It's not Windows Mobile", its gonna be pretty crappy just like the other versions. (And I've been using WinMo since it was Windows CE, pre-PocketPC days. Unfortunately if you are using Windows Mobile, you are still pretty much using the same thing) The first gen iPhone can do everything the latest model can, except for where it needs new hardware. But an old WinMo phone is stuck. And if someone says that you can get upgrades as long as the manufacturer supports it I will kick you in the nuts, cause that never happens. How about friggin upgradability? How's that for a killer feature? Oh yeah, and unless the new feature of Internet Explorer Mobile 6 is that its based on WebKit or the new mobile Firefox, its a safe bet that it will suck too.

Does MS believe their own words anymore? Because that announcement is like something out of Orwell's 1984

bettieblu Yes, we've all seen that article linked into any discussion about developing for Windows Mobile by one Mac fan or another. It's the one that gets quoted only for the closing paragraph which has the alleged quote starting with, "Hoffman reportedly summed things up..." In order to save space, just go back and you should find my comments in several earlier discussions. If that's too much trouble, here's a quick summary: I was able to create an app that runs on multiple versions of Windows Mobile both with and without touch screens, sends an XML Web Services request over whichever network stack is active at the time (2G, 3G, WiFi, passthrough) to a server, retrieves data via that XML Web Service, reformats and displays the data. It took me about 15 minutes actual dev time and is about a dozen lines of code. I was able to distribute that application to the residents of a flood prone valley without needing anyone's permission or requiring them to sign up at anyone's online store. Now if you actually have any personal experience to share, feel free. But don't think linking to the same, old, tired article is adding to the conversation.

bettieblu Maybe you could start by actually reading the article... (here's a hint. He doesn't say what you think he says. And the only "iPhone is better" line is in the end where even Apple Insider doesn't believe he actually said it hence the "reportedly" disclaimer they put in. But, then, you'll probably just say that Apple Insider is in Microsoft's pocket and biased against Apple because everyone's out to get you...)

iPhone. Even Windows Mobile programmers love it.

We do extensive development on widows CE.NET and I mean serious enterprise application - www.c2etek.com. VS 2008, Compact Framework CF.NET is way ahead of anything available today for mobile applicaition. bettieblu sad to learn of your experience, but why you continued to use a product that you were not happy with? You had no other options? I can think of one -. I fail to understand when people complain and moan over a product and yet they continue to use it for several years to come. I hated my macbook pro experience I sold it! robertsjoe MS did not try to cram the desktop into the mobile platform. It shows how much you really know about the MS Platform. We licence the WINCE.NET with the source code from Microsoft and the Mobile Platform is a completely different product, There is of course UNIX RT OS variants out there, but try and ask the manufacturers of the device modules such as GPRS/EDGE provided by SIEMENS for a UNIX driver and see what they tell you. Same with the barcode scanners, Audio controllers etc. Further more, WINMO 7 is not a copy and will not be a copy of iphone. If anyting HTC Touchflow and XPERIA panel concpets http://www.sonyericsson.com/x1/ proves that there so many ways to skin a cat!. I can show you so many devices that have the underpinning of WINCE.NET with a radical different interface - next time you go to the hospital check out the CAT SCANS by GE and the likes they all run WINCE.NET with a radically different UI and you would not know that the underlying platform is Microsoft WINCE. Further more, WINCE.NET is not only used in phone - it is used in over 30,000 different vertical lines including AVIONICS (BOEING), CARS (FORD), GE Electric SCANS, XEROX Digital Printers etc.

Everyone knows that Windows Mobile is a joke. Every consumer that I've talked to about the product has regretted the purchase. After messing around with a few WM phones, I've made the choice not to ever buy one. However it is becoming appearant that one of my critics in here is showing an Apple bias. Yes, I'm talking about bettleblu. Yet you had the audacity to call me a fan girl, yet here I am one again being critical of Microsoft. Just as I have with XP, Xbox 360, Windows 98, Microsoft Bob, and other Microsoft products. Refusing to buy a flawed product in Win Mobile that needs to be redone from scratch. Nobody is forcing you to use WM. Plenty of smartphone makers making good alternatives. To whine and complain about it, yet to say you don't give a "rats ass" shows the typical rabid mac fan response when they've lost their argument. Save us the false outrage and BS responses. When you quit kissing Apple's coat tails, maybe someone might take you seriously.

Sub, almost all the docs in the Physicians IT council at my hospital have WinMo phones. They wouldn't be caught dead without them. Eventually, we will be using mobile devices and laptops on the hospital floors to do rounds and orders, check labs at the patient bedside with COWS, computers on wheels. But it's most likely not WinMo for that stuff, unless 7 has some special qualities. I think we need a bigger screen than any mobile device offers, as well as some horsepower to tap into hospital resources. If I were not a radiologist, I would definitely be using WinMo instead of an iPhone [which I probably would have not have been interested in without Exchange] Almost forgot...Go Steelers!

DRWAM Actually, a handheld device like that, especially if it's made for the medical industry may very well use Windows Mobile Classic (or some other variant of Windows CE). There are actually a lot of devices people use every day that are based on that OS tweaked by OEMs for specific uses like cash registers, ATMs, robot controllers, gas pumps, coffee makers, etc...

"Am I the only one that actually likes using Windows Mobile?" I like it too. There are some complaints I have with the iPhone implementation. For one, it's not a "PDA" by any amount of the imagination. Second, some of the complaints that Paul has are baseless. Let's take a look at some similarities and differences between them: iPhone Home Screen - Looks like the Programs screen in Windows Mobile to me iPhone program notification - you have to see the program icon in the home screen, Windows Mobile - program notification icons show up at the top of every screen regardless of program running Windows Mobile - Start Menu gives access to favourite programs (fully customizable from all programs), most-recently-used programs show up at the top of it, iPhone - rearrange icons on Home screen. no MRU list. iPhone - touch only, Windows Mobile Professional - stylus keyboard, and 3 different handwriting recognition options: Transcriber: write anywhere on the screen, Letter Recognizer/Block Recognizer: standard letter blocks or Palm-based Graffiti characters respectively (Partners like HTC include extra touch-friendly keyboards too - my Touch Diamond has single-tap, and a single-handed-friendly double-tap keyboards similar to BBerry's hardware keyboards) Windows Mobile = task-based UI & Home screen shows "Today" appointments, To-Do List, etc. (fully customizable), iPhone = program-based Home screen, no PDA info iPhone - designed for glitzy multimedia, Windows Mobile - designed to organize your life and get the job done iPhone - form over functionality, Windows Mobile - gives up fancy menu graphics to get the job done (customizable with theme colours, wallpapers, etc.) iPhone - can't multitask, Windows Mobile - can iPhone - a pain to deploy in the workplace, requires crappy iTunes at home, Windows Mobile - on a corporate LAN, buy devices, and get users to plug into USB on initial sync (that's it), Windows Mobile Device Center is much sleaker than iTunes (more device control, no jukebox functionality) If Microsoft wanted to compete against the iPhone, they would build a "Zune Phone". Windows Mobile phones are PDA's with phones in them, essentially making them communication and information devices either for business, or personal productivity. Multimedia has been the weak point in them though, and video performance is the one thing that needs the most improvement. In my HTC Touch Diamond, I watch The Hour video podcast from the awesome RSS Hub app that HTC included with it (it's really called NewsBreak, and it's made by ILIUM software). It actually performs quite well, but stutters from time to time (they use fairly high-res video). Opera Mobile is ok, but RSS Hub is one of the best apps they have preloaded on it. I use it every day to get my RSS news/tech feeds and podcast streams. My phone even downloads them in the background while it's in standby. They have Live Search on it, which includes GPS-enabled mapping, and it works extremely well. It has more information than Google Maps, especially the movie, restaurant, "stuff-near-me" search options. It has has a better route planner than Google Maps (which I tried, but didn't like as much). Sometimes I find that the best apps on the phone aren't featured in TouchFlo 3D, so that UI will even get in the way when I want to access the other apps. That's more of a complaint of HTC's implementation of TouchFlo than of Windows Mobile. I wouldn't even mind if TouchFlo wasn't even on the device, as long as I could get access to the apps easier. I know that there is an add-on for NewsBreak that allows you to display RSS update info in the standard Windows Mobile Today screen, which would appeal to me. I don't see myself buying any software for this though, because it has everything included that I want, and aside from the odd lost frame in video playback, for me it's a near-perfect device. It's also MUCH smaller than an iPhone, and includes Bluetooth, which I use with my Jabra BT8010 stereo headset with A2DP to listen to music.

hodari, yeah carriers are horrible in the US. I hear its a lot better overseas though. From what I hear Microsoft releases windows mobile versions and then the carrier gets to decide whether to release it or not(and unlucky for us the new Moto q 9h gets windows mobile 6 and they want me to upgrade the phone instead). I am definitely looking into the htc touch when my contract runs out.

"iPhone multitasks fine as long as you're only using Apple apps" So can you, say, listen to music while using a 3rd party program, or does launching a 3rd party program completely shutdown all other tasks? I can multitask with all programs on my Touch Diamond. I often have 7 or 8 apps loaded in running memory - Outlook Mobile, RSS Hub, Media Player, Opera Mobile, Windows Live Messenger, etc.... It is a sort-of mini computer to me. It's just not a replacement for a full-on computer, and that's the biggest disappointment about portable "computing" devices that I have. BTW: I found out how to turn off TouchFlo 3D. I'm gonna use the standard Windows Mobile stuff. The RSS Hub Today screen plugin is also included. Also (O/T): very intelligent conversation about environmental policy with David Suzuki on The Hour: http://podcast.cbc.ca/thehour/itunes/videos/20081021_suzuki.mp4 (David Suzuki hosted "The Nature of Things" - a CBC classic, but Americans might not know it)

Waethorn Listening to music while doing something else would work if you're using an Apple app to listen to music so it can run in the background. If you managed to get a music app for iPhone that Apple allowed to be produced in the first place (can't have people competing with Apple's own products, you know) then it would NOT be allowed to run in the background so it would have to stop playing when it wasn't the foreground task.

waethorn re Hyper-V: a lot in some area, very little in others. Contact me offline so we don't flood the thread with OT.

@Mike: Check your inbox on this site. I sent a message.

RE: iPhone and multitasking. Music should work. On the other hand, here are a couple of common scenarios: Open the mail app to check your mail. Click on a hyperlink in one of your messages. It opens Safari. Once you're done browsing, press the home button to go back to the home screen and touch the mail app to open it and continue checking emails. Similarly, there's a Google app, which allows you to access all your Google applications from one page. Open it - it opens a search page, with a link to open other apps. On the other appplications menu, standard applications like Talk, Reader, etc. are listed. Opening any one of them opens a new Safari page. To go back and open any other app, you have to press the home screen button and repeat the steps. The lack of more buttons or keys and a task manager makes it a little restrictive in my opinion. Great UI, though. And some of the apps are of high quality. Paul's right. It's not a great media player. It's the apps that make it good. I probably wouldn't recommend it to anyone who only wants a music player and that's the reason I keep the Zune in the car.

I wonder how many people would not use WinMo if their place of work ditched Exchange and went to some email platform that did not support WinMo? I would bet that 95%+ people buy WinMo phones for wireless Exchange integration. Which is fine since it works well in that respect and does not require another server like a BES server which also requires additional CAL's.

For love of god you just cant let that socialist/jackass stuff go, you cant, you simply cant. We could be talking about the horse power output of tug boat engines and you would weave it in somehow:)

I'll give it a shot when I have time to rip a DVD. But I bought for web surfing, signing my reports at work, and word processing. DVD playback is fine with WMP or vlc, but that's not why I needed it. OK Shark, I really didn't need it, as the old one had a loose vid cable that I could have figured out some way to glue gun it together. I'm a sucker for a sale, and the test drive at BB seemed pretty well. It's a little hard for me to pass up those impulse items at the checkout counter, but I manage to get buy them most of the time. I even got my car on an impulse because of the lease deal was better than the competition.