Windows, not Walls

I was traveling yesterday, so I’m a bit behind on posting this but in the event you somehow missed it, Microsoft is apparently going to use former Mac poster boy Jerry Seinfeld to promote Windows Vista in a new series of ads:

Microsoft, weary of being cast as a stodgy oldster by Apple's advertising, is turning for help to Jerry Seinfeld.

The software giant's new $300 million advertising campaign, devised by a newly hired ad agency, has been closely guarded. But Mr. Seinfeld will be one of the key celebrity pitchmen, say people close to the situation. He will appear with Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates in ads and receive about $10 million for the work, they say.

The new ad effort is expected to use some variation of the slogan "Windows, Not Walls," according to several people familiar with the matter. Those people say the point is to stress breaking down barriers that prevent people and ideas from connecting. The campaign, said to debut Sept. 4, is one of the largest in the company's history.

Microsoft's immediate goal is to reverse the negative public perception of Windows Vista, the latest version of the company's personal-computer operating system. Windows is Microsoft's largest generator of profit and revenue, accounting for 28% of the company's revenue of $60.4 billion in the year ended June 30.

The software has sold well, and Microsoft retains an overwhelming share of the market for operating system software over Apple.

Apple's Macintosh computer business is dwarfed by Microsoft's share of the PC software market, but it has been gaining on its larger rival, accounting for 7.8% of new PC shipments in the U.S. in the second quarter, compared with 6.2% during the same period the prior year, according to research firm IDC. The vast majority of the rest of the market is made up of Windows PCs.

So. What do I think about this? Honestly, I’m not sure. On the one hand, Seinfeld is obviously funny, and his show was frequently hilarious. But that was a decade ago. Part of me is a bit concerned that Microsoft is going with an aging comedian 10 years after his only truly popular vehicle went off the air. Seems like a typical “try to be cool” move by Microsoft. That said, I do like the idea of using Gates. Microsoft has made dozens of hilarious internal videos over the years, many of which have popped up at trade show keynotes. I’ve always wondered why they didn’t use such things as ads. It looks like they’re heading in that direction.

Discuss this Article 228

mikegalos@msn.com
on Aug 26, 2008
RaaJ First we'd need to agree to a level and a time frame. But I'd be fine with that if somebody agrees to do the same for OS X.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Aug 26, 2008
John Again, you responded to the question of innovation in OS X with a discussion of Macintosh in the 1980s and early 1990s and a discussion of NeXTstep in 1990.(And, no, OS X 10 is NOT the "next generation of NeXTstep".) I didn't say Apple didn't have laurels to rest on or past glories to point to.
johnpapola
on Aug 26, 2008
If we're restricting this discussion to the recent releases (since 2000)... can you please illuminate the mountains of OS innovation in XP and Vista that dwarf the improvements and innovation in OSX to the point where your statements can seem valid and not hyperbole. On a side note, how OSX is NOT the successor to NeXTStep? Apple bought NeXT and the same team that developed NeXTStep continued to work on it and sculpt it into OSX. So, Mike. It's all you, buddy. List the top 10 innovations in order of importance and why Apple's got nothing like them.
subzerohitman721
on Aug 26, 2008
Whoh, whoh, whoh, WHOH! People. Come on. Mike and John, Lets be really honest here. The GUI interface has been pretty stagnant since in the last 10 years. Both Apple and Microsoft are EQUALLY to blame in the lack of evolutionary changes. Most of the changes lately have been incremental, sprinkling other people's or companies additions with Apple and Microsoft borrowing heavily from each other. Both companies are to blame, because instead of being the hungry outsiders, both companies are formal corporations. Both Apple and Microsoft are equally spoiled by the successes and failures of their products. At this point in the game, Vista and Leopard are pretty equal in terms of their abilities. No one OS is better than the other. Some of us prefer Windows for the open hardware and software environment, while others prever Apple for the greater optimised environment and tighter quality controls. Have you both ever considered that Microsoft and Apple works together more than either of you would like to admit? They need each other like the yin and the yang. They have a symbiotic relationship in which what happens to one, ends up effecting the other. Both of you are partially right and wrong at the same time. Now this is just an ego game. End it. Move on. Get a life. Peace.
tayme
on Aug 26, 2008
@mikegalos - "First we'd need to agree to a level and a time frame." How about all computer related innovations since the dawn of time? MS vs Apple. Not restricted to any level of OS...in fact, the list does not even have to be strictly OS related. Hardware, software, functions, algorithms...whatever. They are all fair game. "But I'd be fine with that if somebody agrees to do the same for OS X." Why not just put your money where your mouth is. If you know that MS has innovated more than Apple, feel free to list away. You have been stating this for weeks...put up or shut up. --tayme
johnpapola
on Aug 26, 2008
@sub, "Have you both ever considered that Microsoft and Apple works together more than either of you would like to admit? They need each other like the yin and the yang. They have a symbiotic relationship in which what happens to one, ends up effecting the other." I 100% agree with you, sub. And please don't lump me in with Mike as being of the same approach but from the opposite side. I'm not. I'm not the one making bold, hyperbolic claims about Apple doing all innovation the way MIke is about Microsoft. We're aren't coming at this from similar but opposite angles. And it is the his approach and framing of his discussion that I have more problems with than anything. Microsoft may very well be moving the underlying OS tech forward more than OSX is. I don't know. It doesn't seem like that from my layman geek's perspective. But I could be wrong. Microsoft innovates a great deal. I just don't like their approach and philosophy to product design. It's an opinion. I'm not stating it as fact. Again, this is where Mike and once again are very very different.
Dipsh t Admin
on Aug 27, 2008
"They have a symbiotic relationship" Kind of like the Gunjan and the Naboo...
johnpapola
on Aug 27, 2008
Well.. it looks like Mike has gone into radio silence... until the next thread where he'll claim Apple is doing "almost no innovation" in the OS since OSX's debut, while Microsoft is "the only one innovating in the OS". I'm not sure why anyone can take those kinds of statements seriously from this guy considering his methods of debate, his selective framing of the discussion to serve his argument... and the fact that he is Microsoft employee (or was).
mikegalos@msn.com
on Aug 27, 2008
No, John, I'm just ignoring you :-)
tayme
on Aug 27, 2008
@mikegalos - "No, John, I'm just ignoring you " SOP for you, Mike. Make those broad statments and refuse to back it up with fact. You rate right up there with Lindy and crew. Too bad...you have much more to offer, but make yourself irrelevant with your actions. --tayme
mikegalos@msn.com
on Aug 27, 2008
tayme Gee, if I post a lot, I get attacked for posting a lot. If I don't answer every post, I get attacked for not posting.
tayme
on Aug 27, 2008
@mikegalos - "If I don't answer every post, I get attacked for not posting." You have been asked multiple times to provide this list of the things that make MS the only or predominant innovator in the computer industry. You keep moving the target each time you are asked. You should just admit that you were overzealous or just downright wrong, but I am afraid it would go something like this - http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20080826 --tayme
mikegalos@msn.com
on Aug 27, 2008
tayme As you know (since you replied to the post) I offered with the following rules: "First we'd need to agree to a level and a time frame. But I'd be fine with that if somebody agrees to do the same for OS X." Since nobody has offered to do the same for OS X, I'm still waiting. If somebody does volunteer to put facts where his mouth is, so to speak, then that person and I will have to agree on the level of innovations we're discussing so we're not comparing apples to oranges and the timeframe involved so we're not comparing "everything done at Apple since the Apple ][" against "only changes that came in Vista SP1"
Dipsh t Admin
on Aug 27, 2008
"and the fact that he is Microsoft employee (or was)" He has said he is not anymore. And, what bearing does this necessarily have here? I know you'll point out the obvious that since he is involved with them, that he is some how beholden to them. But can he not be a legitimate spokesperson for a company that he works for? Like I said earlier in this discussion, I think the burden of proof is on both sides that are claiming and beating the innovation drum. I haven't seen any true and backed up innovation on either side stated. The only reason I am defending Mike at all here is that he is the only one here that is in any kind of state to truly say what is innovative, because he seems to have a voluminous knowledge of MS. If someone from the Apple camp with commiserate experience were to debate this with him, I think we could all just sit back and watch. Now some are going to call me a MS or Galos shill. So be it. But I'm not going to defend or fight his claims of innovation because I just simply do not know, and I don't think anyone else here can make such a fight without the necessary experience and knowledge. At least in the narrow definition of what qualifies as true "innovation". Still, Mike, why don't you humor us with something, anything, to back the claim up? If you've said it before, link to it. I would find it hard to believe that you are not prolific on other sites. Throw us a bone.
tayme
on Aug 27, 2008
@mikegalos - "As you know (since you replied to the post) I offered with the following rules:" And, since you know...since you replied, I offered the following: "How about all computer related innovations since the dawn of time? MS vs Apple. Not restricted to any level of OS...in fact, the list does not even have to be strictly OS related. Hardware, software, functions, algorithms...whatever. They are all fair game." "Since nobody has offered to do the same for OS X, I'm still waiting. " Why do you need to wait for somebody to list Appls's innovations before you can list MS's? According to you, MS is the sole innovator...so there should be no such requirement. Like I said, you keep changing the rules. --tayme
mikegalos@msn.com
on Aug 27, 2008
tayme That's really funny. You actually, in one post, attacked me for setting rules and sticking to them and close with accusing me of changing the rules. Seriously, that's funny.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Aug 27, 2008
dipsh To clarify. I have been a Microsoft employee in the past and have also consulted to them. I am not now an employee of Microsoft nor consulting to them. In the interest of full disclosure, starting today I will be doing a short writing assigment for a company that is working with a company that is doing a contract job for Microsoft. I am, at this time, in no way an official spokesperson for Microsoft. That said... The reason I don't do a one off item or list is that it would be immediately the basis for a pile-on that would end up becoming a wildly uncontrolled and inaccurate mish mash of posts that would clarify nothing and would take huge amounts of time.
tayme
on Aug 27, 2008
@mikegalos - Show me where I attacked you for setting rules? Are you talking about the rule that somebody should post a list of Apple's innovations before you can list MS's...even though you are the person who made the broad claim that they are the ONLY or predominant innovator? If so, I was not attacking you for sticking to the rules...just calling BS on that particular rule. Admit it...you were wrong to make such a strong statement...it's really ok. No reason to try to appear God-like here... --tayme
johnpapola
on Aug 27, 2008
Bravo Tayme. Bravo. This is pretty lame, Mike. You make truly hyperbolic claims about Microsoft unequivocal dominance of OS innovation in multiple threads, you shoot down my lengthy addressing of the graphics subsystems in OSX that predated Avalon/WPF... and all you do is dismiss that. Then you dismiss older innovations of Apple and NeXT as being too old.... so... it sounds like you are building your statement on a timetable that you're just not willing to share with us. You're the one making the claim. You're the one dismissing older innovation. You expect me and others to argue with you on your turf with your rules in a game constructed to ensure your rhetorical victory? Dipsht may be willing to cede you the dictatorial power to declare what is and is not "innovation", but I sure as hell will not. You're a very smart guy. No question. You seem to know off the top of your head much more about the business than I do. But that doesn't mean that you're right. Your experience brings with it biases. We all do. I switched platforms. I can see both sides, though I favor the Mac as my tool now. And, you know, sometimes engineers can be a bit myopic. Notice that both Apple and Microsoft are run by Steve's who aren't engineers? Yet they make the call. They steer the strategy. I'm not knocking engineering or engineers. Just stating the what think is a pretty agreeable observation. So... how is this going to go? Are you just going to keep flame baiting and then ignoring reasonable requests for a back and forth? Or are you going to put up. THE GREAT DEBATE: Here's a timeframe: the past 10 years. Why? Its a round number. so 1998 to 2008. We leave the Mac GUI, NeXT and NT early innovation debate behind and focus on the present. I think that gives you an inherent an unfair advantage, but so be it. The present it is. Here's What counts: The platform. By that I mean anything in the OS, including the underpinnings, the graphics and audio subsystems and GUI, networking, developer APIs anything that is used as a building block for users or developers. Applications that provide an interface to platform are fair game (like system preferences or the control panel). Applications that are essentially stand-alone programs but bundled with the OS are not. So iLife doesn't count, obviously, but neither does Vista's Photo Gallery application. Media Center is a gray area, but I suppose we can include it as well as the rarely-used Front Row on OSX. Here's my proposal for additional ground rules. #1. The degree to which something is "innovative" must be acknowledged as subjective. Different innovations matter more than others to different users. One universal "this is bigger/better" must prove it's point in depth. Therefore, the relative importance of one innovation over another when there isn't a clear relationship between the two must be argued on many fronts including: A. how many technologies or applications stem from the innovation. B. how many users/developers are helped C. what's been the impact in the real world. #3. When one innovation is built on top of another or is a natural extension of the former, the first innovation wins, but doesn't invalidate the second. For example, DRM is an innovation that was necessary before subscription music could be possible. So DRM is more important than subscription music services as an innovation. #4. When both sides can be demonstrated to have worked on the same problem at the same time (as is often the case. It is called Computer Science for a reason)... the first to market wins. This the best I can do right now. Will you take up the challenge?
tayme
on Aug 27, 2008
@jp - I am guessing that mikegalos will require you to post the first list...that is his way of doing things...I think that I will cross-link to this post so that he knows it is here...he will claim to not know, otherwise. --tayme
WebGuy3000
on Aug 27, 2008
I'm reminded of the weeks of arguing about the shape of the table at the Paris Peace talks in 1968. This thread has already achieved Dostoevsky-like length, generating a lot of heat and little light. I can see little to be gained by continuing it, unless you just like to argue for the sake of it. Oh, and I like Jerry Seinfeld.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Aug 27, 2008
Actually, tayme, I was off installing IE8B2 John, Are you voluteering to take the Mac side? If not, then the rules don't matter since they should be set between the participants. If so, then say so. I honestly can't tell from your post.
johnpapola
on Aug 27, 2008
@Mike, Yeah, I was saying we could go back and forth. I'm all for establishing some agreed context for the debate. You outclass me on tech by miles, but I like to learn from smart guys like yourself and I'm a fast learner. This forum is looking like it's not the ideal forum but whatever. Let me know if you have other ideas for the frame of the discussion.
chuckb84
on Aug 27, 2008
Mike, It's pretty simple. Even after 200+ posts on this one(!) blog entry, you haven't provided a simple list of all those "innovations" Microsoft is doing. Haven't got one, have you?
mikegalos@msn.com
on Aug 27, 2008
John, I agree that this might not be the ideal forum and we can both think about better places. At a minimum, this topic is already way too long for reasonable navigation. I'll look through your proposed context and rules and see if between the two of us we can come up with a good, educational process.
johnpapola
on Aug 27, 2008
@Mike, Sounds good. I want to learn more about Microsoft and welcome the chance to have civil back and forth with someone of your knowledge. Ping me on email from johnpapola.com if you'd like.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Aug 27, 2008
John, You should have mail from me. (Assuming that Apple service stays up) :-)
anonymous
on Apr 26, 2009
Esta build (7100. 0. winmain_ win7rc. 090421- 1700) foi compilada na passada Terça- Feira e ao que parece já começou a ser distribuída a parceiros OEM.

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