Is There Still Room for Blackberry and Windows Phone?

It's possible the smart phone market has already been settled
Reuters

There used to be two major players in the smart phone industry, Nokia, which dominated the world outside of the United States (probably outside of North America), and RIM, which was dominated here in the US. Today, both Nokia and RIM are circling the drain. Now there are two major players again, Android and iPhone. Does this leave any room for rival platforms at all?

There are only two that could matter: RIM Blackberry and Microsoft’s Windows Phone.

I wrote off RIM a year ago and don’t think anything has changed since then. In fact, it’s arguably worse: RIM still hasn’t shipped the Blackberry 10 system we were waiting for back in 2011. But for some reason, there’s a bit of interest in Blackberry 10 currently, and leaked images of the first BB10 handset are notably popular.

I can’t understand why anyone cares, and I suspect that this is in fact trumped-up tech blogosphere goonerism at work, and not actual consumer interest. Blackberry’s share of the market has been on a downward slide for years and it shows no sign of reversing. I don’t honestly think that BB10, no matter how good it may be, will change a thing.

And that’s a problem because this is an issue that also affects Windows Phone.

I love Windows Phone. Always have. But it suffers from the same exact problems as Blackberry. Low consumer interest. And an absolutely baffling lack of support from the parent company with months of silence followed by bizarre pronouncements that never come to pass, and a weird insistence that if they just build it, users will come.

The users are not coming, guys. So far.

There was that Microsoft assertion about Windows Phone 8 doing about “four times” as well during its launch period as its predecessor, of course. And while I’ll half-heartedly mention the joke question about what’s four times zero, I will say more seriously that this figure probably says more about Windows Phone 7 than it does about the current product.

And as we discussed last week, the market researchers who once predicted a heady, iPhone-tying second place finish for Windows Phone by 2015 have scaled back their predictions somewhat dramatically. According to IDC, there are only two smart phone platforms that matter today: Android, with 68 percent of the market, and iPhone, with 19 percent. And in 2016, there will be … wait for it… only two smart phone platforms that matter today: Android, with 64 percent of the market, and iPhone, with 19 percent.

Granted, IDC sees Windows Phone (2.6 percent today, up to 11 percent in 2016) as establishing itself as a weak third platform, while Blackberry stagnates at ~4 percent. But the fact remains that ~85 percent of the market—a monopoly sized figure—is Android and iPhone. Today and in the future.

And that’s a problem.

It’s a problem because it means that developers have a clear platforms to target and clear platforms to skip. It’s a problem because users have two excellent choices that make sense across the board—devices, apps, hardware add-ons, media ecosystem, and so on—and two other choices that are excellent in some ways, yes, but very risky. It’s a problem because while carriers may want choice, their customers have already chosen.

It’s a problem.

You don’t have to be a student of history (or, I suppose, economics) to understand that consolidation is both natural and unavoidable. Back in the early days of the personal computing market, for example, there were any number of contenders—Apple, Atari, Commodore, Radio Shack, Texas Instruments, and many others—and the market naturally consolidated down to two, the PC and the Mac, a situation which, amazingly (or not) continues to this day, 30 years later.

The good news is that when you look at more recent personal computing markets, for smart phones and tablets, these are indeed new markets. Things can and will change, and quickly, and nothing is written in stone. The iPhone already surprised everyone by storming to the front from nowhere, and then Android surprised yet again by doing so even more emphatically, and even more quickly.

But don’t you just get the feeling that things are settling in on the smart phone side? That we’ve reached a point where this is just the way things are going to be? Windows Phone, like the Amiga in the early 1990s, is better than the competition in ways I find meaningful. But no one seems to be noticing. Just like the Amiga.

We’ll see what happens. RIM will deliver Blackberry 10 and one or more new phones and people and businesses either will or will not buy them. Windows Phone 8 will certainly perform better than its predecessors (not that that’s a high bar) but it remains to be seen whether it can ever really rise out of single digit usage and market share.

2013 is going to be a make or break year for both Blackberry and Windows Phone, I bet.

Discuss this Article 60

saqrkh
on Dec 12, 2012

I just don't get MS sometimes, I just don't.

This is definitely a decisive year for WP8, but I feel as though MS still has a solid shoot at mitigating some of Android's hold. The problem is MS. They're not internalizing the ways in which Android succeeds in the world.

To make WP really competitive MS needs to make WP free to the OEMs, and market it as a free but extremely well supported alternative to Android. And second, for God's sake treat your non-U.S users with some respect; open your eco-system up to them.

Will this overturn Android? No. But it will open up the space for the 3rd eco-system under MS.

Parousia
on Dec 12, 2012

I don't know whether you realise this but android isn't free to the OEM's implementing Google's services. At least Microsoft are providing marketing for the price of their OS.

worleyeoe
on Dec 13, 2012

IMO, MS has to do BIG things that will disrupt the market, namely they have to become a wireless carrier.

As an example, Google is getting into just about everything from fiber to the curb to potentially partnering with Dish in some manner to provide wireless service.

As such, MS should buy T-Mobile and launch their own Surface phone. And this phone needs to come in three very compelling models: ultra high-end, middle of the road, and budget with all of them off contract pricing in the neighborhood of $350, $200 and $125.

I agree with everything Paul states. But the reality is that in two years ~ 12% won't be enough. Instead, that number needs to be at least 20%, heading for 35-40% within two years of acquiring T-Mobile.

If Google can sell the Nexus 4 that arguably isn't missing anything less a microSD slot and enabled LTE, then MS should be able to do better.

Give us a mondo WP8 Apollo+ phone with 16 GB's of internal memory, a microSD slot, a 4.5" super AMOLED screen, LTE that can be turned on and off, and a replaceable battery with unlimited talk and text and 1 GB of data for $50 a month with additional 1 GB's for $5 a month, and they will flock to your phone, MS.

techwhore
on Dec 12, 2012

It's funny how you pumped WP7 it in its infancy, but now when it actually has some traction you start going negative on their prospects. Not disagreeing with your interpretation, but its prospects are better now than a year ago when you more excited. Not bashing, I do the same thing. I left ios at 3.0 and android at 2.3 so guess i also lose my enthusiasm.

pthurrott
on Dec 12, 2012

That's neither funny nor accurate.

I've written 28 tips for Windows Phone 8 since it launched. And I'm writing a free book about Windows Phone 8.

http://www.windowsphonebook.com/

It's unclear to me that I could do more for Windows Phone. Or that there is anyone out there doing more for Windows Phone.

techwhore
on Dec 12, 2012

never said your not doing good work on WP8, you are, and its appreciated. But listening to you on podcasts recently I get the impression that you don't think WP8 has a good chance at gaining meaningful market share. Specifically on WTT yesterday I think you mentioned how WP for your wife might not be good choice in re 2 year contracts. Again I think your right about future prospects, just wondering what happened to cause you to be less enthusiastic. My guess is the constant missteps of OEMS and MSFT have made you more realistic

aeg
on Dec 13, 2012

Techwhore, are you suggesting Paul's opinion is somehow swayed by WP's prospects? Paul tells it as he sees it - that is, he delivers us his well-reasoned personal view devoid of fanboyism or delusion.

It's no secret Paul loves and admires WP, and thinks it deserves mass-market success. In fact, I bet he would like to see it succeed almost more than anyone.

However, isn't he possibly right in this article? At this point, achieving massive success with a third/fourth OS seems unlikely.

Alex Alexzander
on Dec 12, 2012

Think of the console wars. Sega and Nintendo. Sega is all but gone, taken down by Sony, which isn't as great as it once was. No one gave Microsoft a chance and yet they are on top in the console race now.

Consoles have a way of reinventing themselves every decade give or take. All bets are off and the war essentially starts over again. Even though lots of people invest a lot of money in a lot of games, they are happy to ditch it all for better hardware with the promise of a better experience to follow.

I think the mobile space will be more like the console space. And I think you are comparing it too much to the PC / Mac space. Mobile isn't like PCs and Macs, even though it appears to be.

Remember iPhone was on top, and Android's first smart phone, the G1 sold barely 30,000 units. It sure looked hopeless, and I never gave it a second thought. Yet people did, and eventually Android went on to totally dominate over iOS in every way.

iOS feels old school these days. Apple has largely done little to it. It's likely to fall the same way Palm did. It's quickly losing it's coolness. Apple just copies a few features from Android, and then releases the same lame and tired phone over and over again. That won't and can't last.

Barely 25% of those developers for iOS break even. Most of them are losing money on iOS. It is too crowded and too lame of an OS to deal with or make any really great features. No file system. You don't know if Apple loves you or banishes you. It's not a favorable environment to invest in. Android is okay, but lacks polish and again, it' huge and hard to find quality apps in their store.

Remember Word Perfect? Market Leader, but not anymore. How about Novell? They owned 78% of the market and Microsoft failed to make even a dent three times in a row. But when Windows NT Server hit, Microsoft sponsored lots of Network Engineers and made lots of deals to jumpstart NT and where is Novell today?

If there is one thing I have learned over and over again about Microsoft it is this...

DON'T COUNT THEM OUT.

I am a recent convert from iPhone, then Android to Windows Phone 8. I saw it many times in the store and never gave it a second thought. I watched you on Windows Weekly and still never gave it a second thought. No interest what-so-ever.

The RT tablet released, and I went to check it out. Loved it immediately and after a week decided I liked Live Tiles after all. Bought a Nokia Lumia 920 the day pre-orders hit.

I'm in a group of Android tablet users. Something like 11 of us are waiting for the Surface Pro to hit. We like to have a stylus for art reasons and the Surface Pro or the Sony Duo 11 both look very good. That's 11 Android Galaxy Note 10.1 users just counting the days to buy the Surface Pro. And how many of those will buy a Lumia 920 or some other Windows Phone for the same reasons I did once I had my Surface RT.

Of the hundreds of millions of Win 8 users that will exist in the next year or two, how many of them will migrate to a Surface type device? I can see a clear halo (no pun) affect that will take place. It won't happen over night, Paul, but it will happen.

Maelstrom
on Dec 12, 2012

We need a like button, not to simulate Facebook or that other tech website Mary Jo Foley blogs on but just because I actually do like this post and would like it be known. :-)

shark47
on Dec 12, 2012

For Windows Phone, I don't think the problem is Nokia. It's all other OEMs. The HTC 8x might be a beautiful piece of hardware, but it isn't as feature packed as the Lumia 920 and the hardware seems one generation behind the HTC One X+. Samsung was the first to announce a Windows Phone, but it isn't on the market yet. Windows Phone's biggest problem is lack of compelling hardware. The Lumia 920 comes closest, but it's definitely not for everyone.

EricoF3
on Dec 13, 2012

shark47!! What are you talking about... When people will stop to focus on Hardware!!!!

Windows Phone is like IPhone they don't need 16 Core CPU and 4 GB of RAM like Android crap OS to run fluidly ...

The only reason HTC 8X don't have the hardware of the Galaxy S3 is simply because Windows Phone 8 don't need all this power to give an exceptional UI experiences ... Like the IPhone!!!

Why don't you question the fact that the iPhone is lack of compelling hardware but you question this about Windows Phone 8 phones??

The Lumia 920 come closest... but it's definitely not for everyone???

The only thing that making the 920 not for all is its size but for the rest it is much more for everyone compared to the android crap phone on the market...

Maybe Windows Phone 8 phones seems one generation behind the HTC One X+ about the hardware but Android OS is 5 generations behind iOS and Windows Phone OS...

spsexton
on Dec 12, 2012

It seems like heavy marketing, targeted at actually capturing mindshare, is absolutely necessary--but probably not sufficient. What factors lead to a product exploding in popularity? Likely a very strong base of zealous early adopters that give the product enough inertia to gain more widespread adoption. But then there's an inflection point that seems to always be missing for Microsoft-based products, where the press gets on board and backs the product.

I was an Amiga owner and enthusiast, buying an Amiga 1000 back in 1986. And watching the Microsoft products fail to gain traction leads to the same emotional frustration. It would be ideal if the best product won in the end, or at least if the better products got a fighting chance. But in the end, it often seems to just boil down to timing, fashion, and pure chance.

ariesdog
on Dec 12, 2012

If this is indeed the future for Windows Phone (and Blackberry) maybe they need to disrupt the established business model. Something similar to how mobile games gained a huge share of the handheld market from Nintendo DS by offering low prices and in-app purchases.

Could Microsoft start their own network, piggybacking on a major carrier's towers like Virgin Mobile does with Sprint or Consumer Cellular does with ATT, and offer free phones and a steep monthly bill discount if customers contractually spend at least $500 from the Windows Phone Marketplace over their 2-year contract? Something like that.

JimmyFal
on Dec 12, 2012

As Windows 8 gains, and it is, and as the Win 8 tablets gain, and they are, the look and feel of WinPho8 will trickle down to the folks that are using the parent OS.

I have a LOT more friends that have WinPho 8 now then I ever have, and many of these folks went out and did it without any prompting from me. I was surprised to get the calls and the comments from people raving about their phones and asking advice on how to do stuff, because they knew I was the local Windows guy.

So at some point for the developers of the Win 8 apps, their problem will be those folks that are missing their companion phone apps.

WinPho 7 really was the beta test unfortunately for us early adopters. WinPho 8 IS the real deal. At this moment in time, it is way to early to call this adoption rate anything close to a problem. I sell this phone at least once a day to people, and its an easy sell. It's more than easy, it practically sells itself.

dregourd
on Dec 12, 2012

A goood boy

I have been a good boy for years, a good MS boy I mean. I bought an LG E900 with wp7 2 years ago and waited 3 monthes until I met another WP in someone else's hand. I waited, waited, waited. For copy-paste, for apps, for new non-ugly colors for my themes, for wp7.1, 7.5, and now they say that LG won't get 7.8 and that, sorry boy, 'shouldn't have bought it too soon.
Who do they think they are? Do they think they can live without customers? Because I can tell you that customers can live without them! Apple IOS and Android are all we need, like in the good old apple-pc days. We waited for them, now it is their turn to wait! (Typed on my Android device)

vrmerlin
on Dec 12, 2012

You're comparison to Amiga doesn't ring true for me. Microsoft has the benefit of a very large existing ecosystems to build on. I think the key to Microsoft's future is actually the business world -- Exchange, Active Directory, SharePoint, and of course Office. These are the building blocks for most businesses. If you were a business, wouldn't you be highly interested in a mobile infrastructure that integrates so so well into that environment? Especially given the demise of Blackberry.

I think the Microsoft Phone has turned into a very solid product (as opposed to my Surface, which has a lot of room for improvement). When I demo it for my iPhone5 and Galaxy S3 friends, it's no contest, in terms of usability, and they see that (particularly the S3 owners). Hopefully, enough users will show off what they have that interest will continue to grow. Time will tell.

efjay
on Dec 12, 2012

Maybe the simple answer is that Windows Phone just isn't that good compared d to the competition. There are simple functions, like replying to an email and attaching anything other than a picture being impossible on WP. Easily editing a music playlist with Xbox music only possible on a PC. As mentioned, lack of support from Microsoft, with mediocre apps like the PDF reader that doesn't include the ability to share or even delete downloaded files. The great promise of connectivity with Windows 8 is conspicuously absent.

Little things like that add up and unfortunately WP is full of these oversights and shortcomings. When a user compares a Windows Phone to an android or ios device and sees functionality and also apps lacking why would they choose to buy one? Microsoft is moving too slowly to bridge the functionality gap so is it any wonder WP is unattractive to many?

I should say that I have used WP since its initial launch in 2010, with a dell venue pro but even to me its clear WP just isn't good enough at the things people expect for it to be successful.

PM76
on Dec 12, 2012

There are two kinds of people, those who go to a phone store and ask for an iPhone and those who buy whatever the sales man pushes. Until now there hasn't been much enthusiasm on the shop floor to push windows phone, but that's changing and Nokia are doing most of it. Wish Microsoft rather use the millions they spend on celeb endorsements to give incentives to the sales guy on the shop floor.

mod6538
on Dec 16, 2012

I went to a T-Mobile store a few weeks ago, soon after Nokia 820 came out, to see the 820 and compare it to HTC 8X, and I was stunned to learn that the sales guy had 820 as his personal phone..

aras
on Dec 12, 2012

"Your submission has triggered the spam filter and will not be accepted."

saqrkh
on Dec 12, 2012

efjay, how could lack of capabilities be an issue when comparatively so few people actually tried WP8, much less use it regularly? Microsoft could have easily put up real garbage on the market, something people would hate but if given to them as the only option, it'll fly (i.e. early Android builds, remember those?).

aras
on Dec 12, 2012

"Your submission has triggered the spam filter and will not be accepted."

What's up with that Paul? Surely I'm not trying to spamming, swearing or anything like that...

trooper11
on Dec 12, 2012

If the common thought is now that there can only be two players in this market, then that's too bad. I just don't think things are so dire yet. I believe there is room for a third player.

Paul isn't the only one thinking out loud about the possibly poor prospects about the future, it seems to be a common theme on the internet regarding MS and WP specifically lately. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I'm just a simple customer, but I see more potential for growth then decline at this point.

What I don't get is what people expected as far as turn around for MS and WP? What numbers were expected sales wise? I mean we are talking about MS basically starting from scratch with a new phone OS. Not to mention that there are two juggernauts already established that MS has to compete with. Lets not forget that Apple and Google both had slow starts, so its not surprising to see MS in the same boat. The problem is MS isn't allowed a slow pace if they want to catch up and be relevant today.

We are entering the 2nd gen for this new phone OS and early indications are that there has been real growth over the 1st generation. If that is not good news, I don't know what is. The platform is growing in sales and library of apps. There are serious high end phones that can be pushed as flagship models this time around and there is much more carrier support vs the wp7 launch.

If WP is going to succeed, its going to be a slow climb until it reaches critical mass. I still think they have every chance to do so, but it will require them to continue to push the platform with updates, attract app developers, and market to end users. They cannot let up.

Mortarm
on Dec 12, 2012

Ah, the Amiga. What a great machine it was.

To me, the problem there was not that anybody noticed, but priced to high compared with other micros at the time.

garymoncrieff
on Dec 12, 2012

On the point of BB, their marketshare has been declining but their userbase has been expanding, just not as fast as the smartphone market is growing. A lot of people believe if RIM can maintain their customer base they will be fine and that's the reason for the interest currently. Not to mention we will soon be seeing BB10 next month.

I have been becoming frustrated with WP recently too but for other reasons, there is absolutely no support for things like fitness trackers etc and this will probably not change anytime soon.

Ted T.
on Dec 12, 2012

RIM's problem is that the BB user base is now completely fractured -- they have the remnants of their North American/European corporate user, and then they have their developing world, cheap messaging phone users (think people who would be using a Sidekick in years past).

So they have been saying, wait for BB10 -- but which one of the two groups are these new BB 10 phones going to be addressed to: the remaining corporate users who are expecting high end phones, or the people who are buying BBs because they are the cheapest option? From what I know, BB 10 software will require modern hardware -- so their growing, but unprofitable cheap phone user base will be left behind?

I just don't see how this will end well for RIM.

As far as Windows Phone, it will persist for years to come -- Microsoft can't afford to let it die, and can afford to keep subsidizing it. I think MS made two big mistakes: the original sin, which was laughing off the iPhone, the trap RIM also fell into, but not Google. The second one was releasing Windows Phone 7 without a matching WP 7 OS based tablet, just at the time when the iPad came out, and the excitement started to shift from phones to tablets. This was compounded by making WP 8 largely incompatible with WP 7. And Windows 8 (RT or not) are still far from the close integration the iPhone and iPad have.

Still, Microsoft will keep trying. RIM will be dead.

aras
on Dec 12, 2012

Got Lumia 820 few weeks ago. I really wanted to like it. And I kind of did, but there are just too many compromises. The OS itself is great and apart from few minor bugs much more useful than iOS, but the rest is not so good. Can’t understand why MS didn’t provide podcast support for non US market? All third party apps I tried (free and paid) don’t come even close to iOS native podcast support and this is big deal for me.

Another big deal is apps. I know Paul has many times said that apps are no issue anymore, but I don’t agree. Quality of even mainstream apps is much lower than on iOS. But the main problem is that many apps I rely on simply don’t exist on WP. You can replace some, but others are not really replaceable – they either exist on a platform or not.

For these reasons I reluctantly put my SIM back into iPhone 4S and stuck Nokia 820 in a cupboard. Hope things will improve…

ninja
on Dec 12, 2012

So the Podcast option is simply not available in non-US Windows Phones? Both in Store for subscriptions and Xbox Player to playback?

Very surprising omission, no logical reason to do that

plantagenet
on Dec 12, 2012

RIM are not in the game anymore they have lost there traditional core business support and the damage was done probably in 2011 when they had those network failure showing the last area of there system reliability had also gone. The fact they don't have a viable product today means to me that they are building market share from scratch again and they simply don't have the treasure necessary to do that.

I also think there are some big assumptions going on to suggest that Apple is going to maintain the market share it has. The fact is and this shown by the growth off Android they are not holding onto the market share they had but are in fact loosing it to the bigger player. If apple insist on charging the 30% model to apps even for the parts of the service that extend way beyond the app itself then I can only see a growing resistance to app developers to the platform as well. Can you imagine what would happen if Microsoft suddenly forced iTunes through an app store and then demanded 30% of everything that was sold through it on a windows PC?

The last thing that may change this is what is going on in China. Nokia is particularly strong in this market and its greater availability and dare I say greater openness to new tech in this market may mean that by 2016 the global market share of Apple and Microsoft are closer than anyone had thought. There are also some interesting legal wrangling's surrounding Google android and its free distribution of the os and the small matter that Microsoft is securing deals with most android makers so is actually receiving royalties.

geeko
on Dec 12, 2012

If Android is the new Windows and iOS the new Mac (heading towards similar market share gloablly by growing much slower than Android), then WP is the new desktop Linux. That is, you will never find one in the US, but for some obscure reason a bunch of Europeans like it and support it at a few percent market share.

History repeats itself. Only the names change.

Maelstrom
on Dec 12, 2012

Well, let's start by putting things into perspective some more. In 2009, Android was just a blip on the radar, then it reached around 10% market shares in 2010 before rising above 25% in 2011 and becoming dominant in 2012.
Now, let's compare to Windows Phone: it's been a blip on the radar since it replaced Windows Mobile two years or so ago with approximately 2%. But if what we read here and there about actual sales trends are right, WP8 may not be that far away from 10% by the end of 2013, maybe even above that.
Furthermore, at least in Europe, the mobile market does have a 18-month replacement turnover period with basically not much consumers' loyalty outside of Apple and even there it's declining too!
So, it's far far from being over in a market that is far from being mature. Sure, it's gonna be tough for Microsoft but they also benefit from a large ecosystem and the synergies between the various screens. Thus, in a somewhat weird way, I see Google as the weak contender in there because unlike Apple or Microsoft, they are weak in the tablet market and extremely weak in the PC one.
And as Paul justly described it not so long ago, the mobile market is just one side of the equation.
That being said, RIM does look comatose and I don't think their are going to survive much longer when BYOD is taking over the business environment and with Microsoft cleverly presenting Windows Phone as the right replacement, at least as far as IT departments are concerned.

geeko
on Dec 13, 2012

What American commentators like Paul fail to note in claiming Apple can hold on to its market share is that the European market is highly-competed compared to the North American one and market share fluctuations there are common, whereas the NA market is very stable and homogeneous (that is, extremely-subsidised Apple, highly-discounted Apple, some more Apple, Apple, Apple...). On markets where the actual phone or device price is more transparent to the consumer, people are starting to look critically at iPhone. Its pricing is plain ridiculous (think of USD 800-1000) and the UX has not improved at all during the past few years. The only thing keeping iPhone afloat in Europe is its ecosystem. If MS's ecosystem grows, iPhone can drop as quickly and as suddenly as it surfaced. This phenomenon has been ture to the European market since the early 90s. One can never take anything grnated in that market. Even Nokia was never immune to this when they dominated 35-40% of the total global mobile phone market.

In Europe, a single product life cycle can change all. An ecosystem can now act as a bumper, but i would not rely on it solely. And that is exactly what Apple is doing. iPhone does not even work as a 4G device in Europe save on two operators.

Talk about cocky attitude on Apple's part. Tech journalists are starting to pay attention. The free media ride is soon over.

rx78
on Dec 12, 2012

MS saying it is committed to WP and Win8, but I'm not confident it is. It does too many things and abandoning them way too easily. Remember Zune? Silverlight? Wp7? (ye, I know, I'll get 7.8 "just" 6 months after it was announced, maybe). Given this history, you can imagine them dropping whatever they "betting company on" this time in a hart bit and moving along. There are important things, you know. Like getting ready office for iOS, selling Bing for android, hosting Linux servers on Azure. They'll survive. But if I'm small developer, putting time and money into WP app, even Win8 - is this wise investment? I don't know. So far it feels like MS itself staying away from building first-class apps on their new mobile platform and keeps yourself busy working someplace else. So it shouldn't be a shocker others "follow the lead". When I see office running as Metro app, I'll be all optimistic. Chances are, we'll see it running on iPad first. And, as Paul says, it's a problem.

trooper11
on Dec 12, 2012

I don't see how the WP7 point applies to your argument though. From an end user perspective maybe, but from a developer's perspective, why would the move to WP8 scare them off? If they made an app for WP7, they can still use it on WP8 and they can create apps for WP8 that will still work on 7/7.5.

I agree its tough for small devs to decide what to bet on, but someone has to be the pioneer in this case. If devs dont come, then the platform dies and yet some devs wont make the jump unless there is already a thriving dev presence. The chicken and the egg.....

MS just has to keep doing whatever it takes to basically buy dev support, at least until the store is self sustaining and devs come because they cant ignore the market. Just look at the quick growth of Win 8 metro apps. Dev support is there, its just going to take time to see the fruits of that support in the form of more quality apps.

rx78
on Dec 13, 2012

There are plenty of changes between 7 and 8. The whole WinRT thing was not existent. The C++ was dead and Silverlight was king. Development was simple - C# only, XNA for game Silverlight for app. Now it's all changed, almost reversed. C++ pushed forward - and there are not too many devs left with skills to use it. For .NET guys it is re-learn all over again plus HTML5 and C++ in your face. What happens next anybody's guess. VS is great and tools strong, but it feels like building on the sand sometimes. Should I learn C++? God I hope not, but it could be in the next version it will be only option for some advanced scenarios. Or may be with Sinofsky gone it will go away? Nobody knows. Now compare it to iPhone - objective c learned in 70s would still get you there. And for Android it is Java, and nothing else. I dislike both but stability and maturity are there. WP development is fun, but some might want to wait till fun is over and it is stable enough to build business on it.

jwloach
on Dec 12, 2012

Funny! I've tried iPhone, Android and Windows Phone, and keep coming back to BlackBerry for effortless emailing, messaging and telephone calling. Just traded a Lumia 710 in on a new BlackBerry Bold 9900. Beautiful piece of gear. It does what I want to do much more quickly and effortlessly than any of the other platforms.

rx78
on Dec 12, 2012

Some people stick to the phone phone and do fine :)

jwloach
on Dec 12, 2012

It's much much more more than than a phone phone :) :)

Maelstrom
on Dec 12, 2012

Some people still rely on their phone plugged to the wall while some others still prefer to just yell around the office to others and actually think that that medium of communication provides them with what they need to do much more quickly and effortlessly than any other way around. And, while it does get the message out, it doesn't mean it's more efficient.

Alex O.
on Dec 14, 2012

I totally second your opinion!

I was so excited about WP8, got Nokia 920 and...meh...
The hardware itself is solid, but the OS usability and especially the emails integration are nowhere near my BB Torch. I was simply unable to get Yahoo Business Mail working on WP8 and I tried 2 separate Lumia's to rule out the device. It simply locks up in Syncing... forever and battery dies in 3-4 hours, not even mentioning the data traffic it rakes up during that time.

Can anyone explain to me how to delete more than a single e-mail at a time or to mark them all as read? How about VPN support for us, the business users?

Music player on BB is so much easier to use, e-mail reader is so superior and the entire device just feels much more logical. Yes, it lacks all of the cool apps and its 5MP camera is mediocre, but I don't really care about that. I use it as a solid business tool and it does everything I need.

I really wanted to like WP8 and I still keep it in my drawer to play with it on a Wi-Fi connection, but my BB is back in business for me and I will be sure to check out BB10.

Ago
on Dec 12, 2012

Paul, you’re very insightful on many different subject matters but you consistently miss the boat when you weigh in on RIM/Blackberry. I wish you would stop speaking with authority on companies and technologies you know nothing about or haven’t done your homework on such as RIM.
“Goonerism” as work? Give me a break, Yes Paul RIM currently has an active installed base of greater then 80M WORDWIDE (there are human settlements outside the USA), many of them are anxiously awaiting Blackberry 10, myself included. Get over it.

Silversee
on Dec 12, 2012

I understand the appeal of Android to OEMs and carriers, but I never understood why consumers chose it. Even today when it is vastly improved in Jelly Bean, it still feels overly complex with rough, consumer unfriendly edges.

But I guess you could say the same thing about Windows PCs for all these years.

Daelen
on Dec 13, 2012

2012 -Year of the Linux... smartphone? ;)

sparrows
on Dec 13, 2012

As far as advertising goes, I've seen ads for the surface and WP8 in the Real Simple magazine here in the US. Seems like MS is trying to reach the mainstream female market there. I've never seen any other technology related ads in there so I hope it makes some sales for them. It does make me wonder whether non-techie people see the platform as risky or if they understand it as being risky at all.

Spawn1905
on Dec 13, 2012

I say, why doesn't MS offer the OEMS or Telco sales people money for every WP8 Handset and Tablet that gets sold, use some of those Android Royalties to fight the good fight. Hell give away WP8 as they are going to make money off the store anyway. In Australia I see no advertising for WP8 nothing, their marketing departments need the sack or someone new at the helm. I go into my local phone store and wish I could show people how good WP8 is. I even taught the sales people in my local Telstra shop about Kids Corner. They had no idea, no training.

Ballmer I think is past his use by date, they need someone angry at the helm, someone with a bit of mongrel! He might be a nice guy, but he has made some hefty mistakes.

And don't get me started about my beloved surface without LTE or 3G. What a stupid mistake that was. A Tablet is a portable device, with live tiles it is useless away from the house and data!!!!

Apple will have to be very careful in this app/office for IOS deal. When or if PC's go full metro app store, you could see a very large number of PC iTunes customers disappear as iTunes might not be certified and there goes 500 million itunes customers in a click! That could hurt a lot! Or at least a reciprocated 30% for every purchase to MS made through iTunes.

JoJo
on Dec 13, 2012

The problem Windows Phone has is that Microsoft is a toxic brand. Few want to touch it and many want to destroy it. People swoon over Apple products and strangely love most things Google.

zard
on Dec 13, 2012

The problem for WP8 and MS is that they are simply just very late to the party.The only way anyone is going to gain any traction in the mobile market is to produce not only a superior product to the market leaders(as WP is in some respects) but produce a product that is FAR superior(which it is not).At this point in time no single premium product is mind blowingly better than any other, so the problem is one of perception.Apple has built a perception of perfection and engineering prowess, Android seems to market the perception of freedom and rebelliousness. MS on the other hand seems to lack any real identity and is unable to tap into any raw human emotion. MS is actually doing in my opinion a great job of melding services with hardware, and creating a somewhat seamless ecosystem but they are again late to the party and need to do something to shift the public's perception.For this to happen they need to do something radically different to all other players, not something better but something revolutionary. Windows 8 is a start,the idea is out of left field and any person that tries it for longer than 5 mins would agree it is a good computing experience.But like WP8 it is not so much better that it could be perceived as revolutionary.

rx78
on Dec 13, 2012

IMO, they made mistake ignoring business part of WP while keeping it identity as "windows" centric. They could make strong case as a business friendly device and build WP brand this way, pushing RIM out and gaining ground for move into consumer space. Or go away from calling it "windows" and building all new consumer friendly brand, like Xbox or Zune did. The business case would probably be stronger, setting it apart as a tool vs toys in the silly perception game people so fond of. But that opportunity long lost, I guess.

ryeworth
on Dec 13, 2012

I really wish the press/bloggers would stop bashing Nokia.

-They're back to non-IFRS profitability.

-Four out of their five business are extremely profitable - mobile phones, IP, Nokia-Siemens and Navigation.

-Lumia is sold out.

Things could be a lot worse.

shark47
on Dec 13, 2012

Here's where the argument breaks down: The PC market was supposed to be more or less stable in the US, but that didn't stop Apple from making big marketshare gains over the last few years.

While Android may be the Windows of the Smartphone market, Windows Phone is no Linux. When was the last time that there was even a little amount of buzz for a Linux computer?

In the consumer space, it's Apple and Google. It will take a few years for Microsoft to rebuild its brand, after years of bad publicity and negative feelings about it. They may or may not succeed at this, but give Ballmer credit for trying. His job is almost comparable to taking a JC Penney and turning it into a Nordstrom.

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