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$30,000 to fill an iPod

May 12, 2009 Paul Thurrott | Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows

So Microsoft's latest Apple Tax ad actually goes after the iPod and promotes the Zune, which is interesting on a number of levels. The argument? That filling a 120 GB iPod with songs from the iTunes Store would cost about $30,000. Or you could just get a Zune and subscribe to a Zune Pass for $15 a month, which is a little.

While some will argue nonsensically about how you don't "own" subscription music, I'd also point out that that $15 includes 10 free songs each month, which over time, would amount to quite a music collection, presumably of music you tried and then liked so much you decided to buy it. That's a lot better than spending a buck a song, only to later discover your musical tastes have evolved. As they will.

By the way: How long would it take to spend $30,000 on Zune Pass? About 2000 months, or over 166 years. In that amount of time, your musical tastes will surely change several times, too. :) Good thing you didn't waste money buying that music, eh?

Interesting ad.

Discuss this Article 146

darkmax
on May 12, 2009
Personally I believe this ad is not doing Microsoft any justice.
bettieblu
on May 12, 2009
When watching prime time TV, via my DVR I see lots of iPhone ads that I skip through, but lots of them. The term "there is app for it" is starting to sink in. However I have only ever seen one MS add recently with the woman that wants to buy a laptop for video work and chooses some HP, which is funny. Anyhow my point is I have never seen a Zune ad. Do they air them? Are they print only, internet only? I dont think jo-consumer will get this, the point of filling up a 120gig device with purely music and music they buy from iTunes only. The hard drive models are all but gone these days and people fill up these devices with music they have already from CD's, music they purchase, music they pirate and other stuff these days, games, videos or maybe one of the "1 billion apps downloaded". Why not blast Zune ads out, as much as iPhone/iTouch ads and focus on the subscription service big time. Over and over with their version of "there is app for that". I mean the entire back of my latest Time magazine at home is a iPhone, with pointers all around it, pointing to the apps on the screen of the iPhone with description of the apps. Microsoft also needs to get into movies and tv more. I see so many macs in movies and tv shows. I caught part of Donald Trump show the other night channel surfing and it was Mac city. I see Macs on all of those TLC home buying, refurbish, upgrade whatever shows. It seems like anytime a TV ad shows a browser, like the sci-fi channel when telling you to go online for more whatever of the show its a Safari browser on a Mac because I can see the red, yellow, green circles in the upper left hand corner. Mac, Mac, Mac everywhere on TV and in the Movies. Microsoft needs to get in peoples faces and with a positive message, take the high road.
danieldecker
on May 12, 2009
Yeah, I hate owning all of my media. It's such a burden. My iPods have stolen thousands of $$ from me over the years! You know, because I didn't own any CDs before the iPod came along, and most of my music library isn't made up of songs I ripped from those CDs. This is more BS and you all effing know it. Christ.
gfryesc1
on May 12, 2009
I'm convinced, I think I'll buy one of those zunes that are languishing on shelves nationwide. I wonder what will happen to these subscription plans when microsoft ends up killing the zune. It's not getting any traction and microsoft cannot continue throwing such good money after bad. especially after that horrible quarterly loss they just posted... and of which paul refused to touch with his snark-o-matic.
clindhartsen
on May 12, 2009
It's an interesting idea, though I'd wonder if people can be convinced a continual investment is better than an instantaneous .99/.79/1.29 cost for a song. Personally, I love the idea, and if it'll work with the Nano I have, I might just jump aboard.
shark47
on May 12, 2009
Weird ad and I doubt it will even work. I think they should sell the Zune software. It's pretty good.
rjohn05
on May 12, 2009
If ZunePass works with my iPod Touch I will most likely get it. However, for those who think Microsoft will kill the Zune, I am not so sure of that. Microsoft should stay in the Zune market for at least another 5yrs because if the ZuneHD really is what the rumors say, then I think it will finally be a serious competitor. Also, Zune is an important piece of the entire Microsoft media array or products. I think the time is now for MS to stop trying to build an MP3 competitor and build a personal media device (add a camera to it), and allow it to integrate nicely with XBox, Win 7, and WinMo, and Windows Live (incl sync). With them looking into touch and gesture as the next big thing in human interfaces, it seems to me that having multiple devices that you can control without actually touching is a big leap in innovation from Microsoft (i.e. Zune, WinMo phone, XBox, Window OS). Stuff like this will make these products attractive to the general public and will go a long way towards getting people's attention and increasing sales with the Zune. I don't think they will ditch Zune (it was mentioned in past months they they may get out of hardware) and I hope they will continue to stay in this market, because they have at least gotten me thinking about getting rid of my iPod Touch.
WebGuy3000
on May 12, 2009
Didn't I read that the average iPod owner has purchased something like 20 tunes from the ITMS? This is one of those arguments that sounds good at a glance but doesn't actually affect real people. IMO. I could just as well argue that to fill up your 120GB Zune with 10 songs a month at $15 a month would take 250 years, and cost $45,000. But that would be silly.
havanese
on May 12, 2009
I use the zune subscription and love it. Yes I owned boxes of tapes in the early 80s, then CDs in the 90s, and guess how many of those albums I listen to now? less than 2%...my tastes have changed. I have two hard drives of all those ripped tapes and CDs and I haven't listened to them in over four years. The subscription based model works great for my family here is why. 1. I like many genres of music and I love to try different artists 2. My 21 month old son loves music and what's better than being able to listen to any kids album. Six months from now his tastes will change - no loss 3. Wife has her music she loves and she can fill her zune with whatever she wants. So I gain music for three different people for 15 bucks a month + 10 free "all mine" tracks This is a steal for my family
bettieblu
on May 12, 2009
"I think they should sell the Zune software. It's pretty good." ??? I think it's good software (now), but not worth spending money on, ever. That would just push people to WMP, iTunes and other free stuff. @rjohn05 Microsoft is not a private company. At some point if the entertainment division (xbox, zune) does not turn a profit (lost 31million last quarter) I would think the share holders would ask Microsoft to stop wasting money on it. As Paul has noted before Microsoft makes 80% of its money on Windows and Office. I don't think the Xbox has ever made any money, and probably so for the Zune as well.
shark47
on May 12, 2009
"??? I think it's good software (now), but not worth spending money on, ever. That would just push people to WMP, iTunes and other free stuff." Oooh, sell as in advertise.
rlcronin
on May 12, 2009
I tried the ZunePass for 6 months, and just cancelled it because while the 10 free tracks sounded nice, in practice I could not find enough MP3 tracks in the categories of music I like (mostly older stuff from the 60's and 70's). The vast majority is still WMA. Ugh. If MS converts everything in the Zune store to a mainstream, DRM-free format, then I'll likely join up again. Lately I've been buying DRM-free AAC files (which I do consider a mainstream format now that the DRM has been removed) for my Zune from the ITMS. Ironic I suppose!
yipcanjo
on May 12, 2009
Like many others out there, I was skeptical of a "subscription-based" music service -- be in Zune, Rhapsody, Yahoo! or whatever. As a long time musician, I wanted to "own" my music, and that was that. On the other hand, I'm also *cheap* -- which meant that I was buying less and less music. I was tired of purchasing an album, only to find out that I really didn't enjoy it as much as I thought. It was $10 - $14 wasted.... and "NO" I'm not going to download my music illegally. Another issue was (perhaps) unique to me, but a number of artists that I enjoy were beginning to "remaster" and rerelease their classic albums. It irked me to no end to have to re-purchase a better sounding version of an album that I already owned! ARGGGH!!! The answer? A Rhapsody-using friend finally convinced me to try a subscription-based music service, and I chose Zune. I haven't looked back since. I'm getting tons of new music that I would *never* have listened to before, I'm grabbing those "remastered" albums that I wanted to have so badly, I'm replacing my (very old) Napster tracks with legit versions, and all three of our Zunes at home are able to connect and use this music. For $14.99/month (+ 10 free downloads), it's a pretty awesome deal... and just about what I was already spending anyhow. My only fear? That the Zune service goes away. (please...NOOOO!) I sincerely feel that the Zune subscription service is a better deal than iTunes, and the folks that I've swayed over to Zune agree with me. While this ad is obviously "in the extreme", the sentiment is correct. Right now, people are into paying less wherever possible, and the Zune Pass is cheaper than iTunes.
shark47
on May 12, 2009
Considering that they have plans to port Zune to other devices like the XBox and WMP, I doubt the service will go away soon.
hamiltonstallings
on May 12, 2009
@danieldecker Are you trying to say that a subscription service is bad? You sure do use a lot of words to say absolutely nothing. Anyways, I think it is a pretty good deal since IMO most of the music on the radio these days is complete crap. And the good stuff I already own. For me, the ipod would be a lot more attractive if there were some better syncing options out there. iTunes is just complete junk. It actually led me to sell my 2nd gen ipod touch. I've never used a slower, clunkier program in my life. I don't need an extra 100 services running just to load songs onto my pod. That being said, I think for now I'll stick to my blackberry 8900 as a media device, since it sounds better than an ipod and i can sync it over the air, or by dragging and dropping. I still couldn't justify 15 /month with music these days. Its all just computer filtered synth/emo garbage. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if many of the artists on the radio are actually fake, and a computer just generated the music from a formula.
planetarian
on May 12, 2009
I've been on the Zune Pass for over half a year now and it's an excellent service. Well worth the $15/mo. Besides, it's not like you actually OWN the music you buy anyway, and the RIAA would certainly like to make CD-ripping just as illegal as downloading via P2P.
hamiltonstallings
on May 12, 2009
The only thing I am concerned about with the Zune Pass is this from the Zune website: "Some songs and albums on Zune Marketplace are only available as a purchase". Anyone have any trouble with that?
darkmax
on May 12, 2009
Damn if only Sony Walkman weren't so damn pricey, it would give iPod a run for its money.
techfan
on May 12, 2009
You know, now that I think about it, it's been a long while since I last bought a CD or song online. I think a subscription might be a better deal because if you don't like an artist anymore, then you're stuck with the CD/song. With a subscription, if you don't like the artist anymore, then move on. One thing that I would love the Zune HD to have is AM radio. I'm big talk radio and like listening to Jim Rome and baseball games.
dmccall
on May 12, 2009
The flaw with the ad is it ignores the dirty little secret of iPod's success: most of the media people enjoy is stolen. I have been a Rhapsody subscriber since 2002 and have never been happier with my music. My 4GB Sansa Rhapsody player is my favorite electronic device of all-time (including my iPhone 3G). Since getting the Rhapsody ToGo subscription in 2004, I have not bought a single CD or online song - why would I? I look at all of those CDs in my closet, most that I haven't touched in over 10 years, and do not consider them an investment. Meanwhile there are about 50 songs per month that I listen to that I never feel like buying. I've never been happier. Now, when my Sansa player dies, I will look very seriously at a Zune, mainly because of that Keep-10 deal they have.
Waethorn
on May 12, 2009
"Why not try selling the Zune outside the US." They already do.
nutmac
on May 12, 2009
Majority of the music on my iPod are ripped from my past CD collection, which I still continue to purchase from time-to-time, although mostly used. Perhaps I am getting old, but my taste in music isn't changing dramatically and most of what I listen to are from my past collection. $15/month on Zune Pass would be a waste of money to me, as I buy perhaps 3-5 (used) CDs a year and few downloadable tracks from Amazon. And BTW, majority of my iTunes directory is consumed by video and photos.
lotsamystuff
on May 12, 2009
*yawn* Tired old arguments, tired old business model, tired old service. Subscription services are a niche...period. They'll remain that way until someone finds a way to make them compelling, and you can bet your bottom dollar that the "someone" in question won't be a company named Microsoft. In fact, since they're only available for a tiny minority of portable digital music players out there, subscription services are a niche within a niche. If this were Apple, the WinJihadists would look at the minuscule market share and collectively shout "irrelevant!". Well...Waethorn would anyway. With multiple exclamation points and all caps, probably.
lotsamystuff
on May 12, 2009
"most of the media people enjoy is stolen" If that's true, then it's also true that the vast majority of media thieves are therefore Windows users. Aren't y'all ashamed of yourselves? (FWIW, I don't buy your premise. But if you do, you have to accept the attendant consequences of your statement.)
RunTimeError
on May 12, 2009
MS is still trying to sell this thing? I *still* haven't seen one in the wild. I've only ever seen a Zune collecting dust on a store shelf.
hamiltonstallings
on May 12, 2009
Yawn. Lotsa you might want to try a bit harder, as you can't seem to stop contradicting yourself, even in the same post. Great for laughs though, keep them coming. We all know you secretly are a Microsoft lover!
tayme
on May 12, 2009
@"lotsamystuff - "Subscription services are a niche...period. They'll remain that way until someone finds a way to make them compelling, and you can bet your bottom dollar that the "someone" in question won't be a company named Microsoft." Many of the iCabal will sing the subscription model's praises just as soon as Apple goes with it...and I still think that they will. It is a much better model over all. We all know that once Apple says it is good, you all will be "thinking differently" about it. --tayme
tayme
on May 12, 2009
@WebGuy - "I could just as well argue that to fill up your 120GB Zune with 10 songs a month at $15 a month would take 250 years, and cost $45,000." That is a completely valid argument to this claim...It's user preference, just like OS is and again, too many people take the all out war approach to it. That is simple minded!!! --tayme
gorath
on May 12, 2009
@ bettieblu, you're certainly right that a lot of American TV shows show macs everywhere, but as i understand it, macs "are" more popular in the States than elsewhere anyway. one of the best Tv product placements for a computer brand I've ever seen - in terms of pure numbers of machines - is motorsports coverage. Watch the Formula 1 or WRC coverage, and they're drowning in a sea of Dell computers and laptops, they're ebsolutely everywhere!
boyreinvented
on May 12, 2009
Most people's reaction to this ad will be: "What the f**k is a Zune?!"
shark47
on May 12, 2009
As much as I like the Zune, I don't think the company gets it. The idea to launch a new media player was good. Starting with a small team was good. But the problem was that the company was unwilling to take risks. The end result was a me too media player, whose only selling point was WiFi, which at that time was useless. After a bad start, while the software kept getting better --and I think the software is awesome-- it was still tied to a device that was going nowhere. Even now, the ZuneHD sounds promising, but this is something that should have come out two years ago. The only reason they're doing it now is because the iPod Touch is doing so well. They're once again playing it safe.
bettieblu
on May 12, 2009
@gorath I have seen PC's on TV and in the Movies, Dell is easy to spot with their circle. That said its 90/10 Mac's vs PC's. Perfect example, I was home at lunch today and the wife got a Pottery Barn catalog in the mail. She is looking at desks for my son, in all of the pictures that show computers on a desk, they are all Macbook's and Macbook Pro's. Now this could be the ad agency that does the photos and ads for Pottery Barn and this could be the same for TV ads as most of ad, photo, video shops use Mac over PC. That is why I thought that MS ad about someone looking for a new computer for video work picked a PC.
bettieblu
on May 12, 2009
Most people's reaction to this ad will be: "What the f**k is a Zune?!" Yep, as I never see them in the wild. I have seen more Kindles than Zunes. Jo-consumer calls any MP3 player an iPod, like any brand tissue is a Kleenex.
lotsamystuff
on May 12, 2009
"...you can't seem to stop contradicting yourself, even in the same post. " Please explain how. I suspect that any perceived contradictions are more a result of your poor comprehension skills than my writing.
shark47
on May 12, 2009
bettie, that's for OEMs to do. Dell is generally decent at product placement and I've seen a few on some of the TV shows that I watch. HP has a collaboration with Ikea.
Waethorn
on May 12, 2009
"If this were Apple, the WinJihadists would look at the minuscule market share and collectively shout "irrelevant!". Well...Waethorn would anyway." Only because Apple is irrelevent.
mikegalos@msn.com
on May 12, 2009
" I see so many macs in movies and tv shows." It's called product placement and Apple spends a lot each year making sure you see their logo on shows that target their specific demographic. Pretty much any time a logo is visible on TV or in a movie you can assume it's a hidden commercial bought and paid for by the company's ad agency. It's really amusing to see TV shows showing Macs used in professions that Apple has never bothered with in real life. Especially when Apple could have put that ad money into research and development so they could be involved in more of the world. I guess the illusion of changing the world is worth more to them than actually doing it.
gorath
on May 12, 2009
@ Bettieblu, there's hardly any macs on TV in britain. That's not so say none at all, but they're much rarer than your experience in America (sorry if you're not in America, and I've misunderstood.) @ Waethorn. Apple is actually as far away from irrelevant as could be in the digital music market. They practially "own" that market.
chuckb84
on May 12, 2009
Ah, yes, now we have an ad we can call "MP3 player hunters". A couple of observations: Zunepass doesn't work with 80% of the players, which are of course----iPods. Second, I cannot phrase it better than the Macalope did today, "The Zune must really suck goat balls if it can’t compete against a device that costs $10,000." And even less so if the figure you're using is $30,000. Third, the ad is predicated on the idea that Zunepass makes more economic sense than buying music from any source, so Amazon's music sales must be tanking. Oh, wait, they aren't. It appears that the buying public want to own, not rent music.
DavidR91
on May 12, 2009
This advert is dumb. The concept is great, and I like it, but the level of arrogance and irritation is higher than MS's ability to actually commit to the concept, because it isn't available outside the USA. Yeah, clever idea that. Wonder when MS will figure out that the population of Europe outstrips the US by about 430 million...
DavidR91
on May 12, 2009
Excuse the tags on that last post, I'm too used to other sites
hamiltonstallings
on May 12, 2009
"Please explain how. I suspect that any perceived contradictions are more a result of your poor comprehension skills than my writing." Lol. Speaking of things being 'perceived'... What else can you attempt to turn into an argument? You need to start making claims again. Personal responses aren't as funny. Good try though. Take your alter ego RunTimeError and go learn some basic logic. @chuckb84 Good analysis. In a few seconds you figured out what the buying public actually wants. No surveys necessary. Maybe Microsoft should look at 'Macalope' and Amazon's sales to make their decisions. lulz.
hamiltonstallings
on May 12, 2009
I don't like the advertisement at all. In fact, I hate all Microsoft advertisements except those nerdy ads on webpages where game characters in Halo and other games start talking to eachother. But I hate all advertisements in general, no matter what the company. Do people really make (non impulsive) decisions based on tv ads?
chuckb84
on May 12, 2009
@hamiltonstallings "Good analysis. In a few seconds you figured out what the buying public actually wants. No surveys necessary. Maybe Microsoft should look at 'Macalope' and Amazon's sales to make their decisions." Oh, I think we can look at "Zune" sales and get a pretty good idea what the buying public wants. Isn't that what Paul always tells us about Macs? Maybe Microsoft should look at what people actually buy instead of deciding the business model they expect everyone to follow.
Dipsh t Admin
on May 12, 2009
"It appears that the buying public want to own, not rent music." Can't really say that, can we? Since most music is purchased, it is not necessarily because people want to buy it. Rather, the number of places that you can actually subscribe to music is small. Given the economics, although certainly not as dramatic as the $30,000 example here, subscription music can make sense for a large portion of the music listening public. When you consider that most songs today will only rarely be listened to months after purchase, having access to a vast catalog of popular music will make it easy for those people to consume whatever is hot at that point. I'll point out once again that these types of ads that concentrate on costs resonate with many in the buying public during down economic periods like we are experiencing now. Certainly the audiophile with a vast collection, or an Apple fan with everything Apple is not the target of an ad like this. Neither is it targeted to the readers of this blog. It's the normals. So when Mary Jane Rottencr***h is attending college and wants to hear all of the latest Jason Mraz and Fallout Boy music, and they are considering those shiny iPods, an ad like this is meant to make those people evaluate how they want to spend their money. An all you can eat subscription to music that will not be played outside of the first few months of ownership gives her more money for beer and Kate Spade purses.
shark47
on May 12, 2009
"Maybe Microsoft should look at what people actually buy instead of deciding the business model they expect everyone to follow." Microsoft already does that. Instead, they should start focusing on making people want what they offer. People don't know what they want. No one knew they wanted razrs until Motorola told them they did. No one knew they wanted iPhones until Apple told them they did. Microsoft has the habit of playing it safe. They need to take a little more risks.
Dipsh t Admin
on May 12, 2009
"Maybe Apple should look at what people actually buy instead of deciding the business model they expect everyone to follow." @chuckb84, I fixed it for you.
chuckb84
on May 12, 2009
@dipsh "Given the economics, although certainly not as dramatic as the $30,000 example here, subscription music can make sense for a large portion of the music listening public" Yes, as a hypothetical, that's true. I'm only saying that, at this point, there is no evidence to support your statement. It -could- be true someday, it just isn't true now. Furthermore, it seems unlikely to me that the Zunepass will gain any traction in the world so long as it only works with 3% of the music players, or whatever the Zune marketshare is down to this week. I don't know why music rental systems have failed, but so far they are a dismal failure. I suspect it is because of the cases of music rentals that have failed, authentication servers that have gone dark and music that has suddenly become unplayable. It doesn't take many of those events to obviate any supposed cost advantage in renting and it doesn't take many of those events to give the public the idea that music rentals are fragile and not a good deal.
bettieblu
on May 12, 2009
@Mike I agree, I see Apple computers in some area where they would not be for sure. That said Chloe on 24, the super computer geek uses Mac on the show.
Waethorn
on May 12, 2009
@gorath: Apple is a bit player in music distribution outside of the US. Their music players sell, but I see just as many if not more of the cheaper brands in the open. The Zune Pass message here is straightforward. I can imagine that they'll push this message along with WM6.5. I'd personally like to see Microsoft offering Zune Pass services as addons through phone carriers to improve on the pathetic services that mobile providers currently offer on their own. Completely unrelated: http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/015047b2f4/laptop-hunters-jennie

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