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$30,000 to fill an iPod

May 12, 2009 Paul Thurrott | Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows

So Microsoft's latest Apple Tax ad actually goes after the iPod and promotes the Zune, which is interesting on a number of levels. The argument? That filling a 120 GB iPod with songs from the iTunes Store would cost about $30,000. Or you could just get a Zune and subscribe to a Zune Pass for $15 a month, which is a little.

While some will argue nonsensically about how you don't "own" subscription music, I'd also point out that that $15 includes 10 free songs each month, which over time, would amount to quite a music collection, presumably of music you tried and then liked so much you decided to buy it. That's a lot better than spending a buck a song, only to later discover your musical tastes have evolved. As they will.

By the way: How long would it take to spend $30,000 on Zune Pass? About 2000 months, or over 166 years. In that amount of time, your musical tastes will surely change several times, too. :) Good thing you didn't waste money buying that music, eh?

Interesting ad.

Discuss this Article 146

mikegalos@msn.com
on May 12, 2009
RubberJoe If you knew anything about the VA Tech computers (or had read the article) you'd know that they were done with software the university wrote (and NOT Apple) and the new one is 279th on the list. (Oh, the one you referenced, also using software the university wrote back in 2003 is no longer on the list being far too slow to keep up with current supercomputers)
mikegalos@msn.com
on May 12, 2009
tayme "mikegalos shows [...] because in his mind, he is a much better person than the rest of us" No. Just much better than some of you.
Waethorn
on May 12, 2009
"How much do you charge them?" Less than what it would've cost them to buy the music from iTunes.
robertsjoe
on May 12, 2009
@mikegalos: Either refer to me as robertsjoe or nothing at all. Not rubberjoe. Unless you want me to stoop to your childish level and call you names.
Waethorn
on May 12, 2009
"Did you tell them that they wouldn't have this problem, save lots of time, hassle and money by switching to another operating system?" Since they wouldn't, I don't lie to them. "do you just take the money and laugh?" Last time I looked, my reflection didn't look like Steven P. Jobs was staring back at me.
whiplash55
on May 12, 2009
My son loves the Zune subscription, he says it gives him a chance to try a lot more music than he'd be able to if he had to buy it all. 15$ a month isn't bad considering that you get to keep 10 songs a month. Whats not to like? Mac commercials are getting really pathetic so many of their criticisms apply to Macs equally as much as Windows. They are really getting very old and stale. The new Microsoft ads for once seem to catching on, this is a good economy to let people know you don't need to spend $1500 on a laptop that has decent capabilities.
Waethorn
on May 12, 2009
"Unless you want me to stoop to your childish level " AHAHAHAHAHA! Good one! That's the funniest sh*t I've read all day.
robertsjoe
on May 12, 2009
@waethorn: I was just curious. Since I've seen many rip-off merchants that rip people off, charging through the nose to remove viruses from PCs. It's a disgrace what some charge. (again, it's just part of the Microsoft tax)
DRWAM
on May 12, 2009
'Sea' ya later gang, gotta watch "Deadliest Catch".
chuckb84
on May 12, 2009
@mike, I DO know something of the VA Tech cluster. The key point of interest is that those are G5 machines, not Intel. They chose them for specific reasons (Altivec). As I am sure you know, the top 500 list is very much a moving target. It's unusual for machines purchased a few years ago to stay on the list, and if they do at all, they fall down the list pretty fast: This is called "Moore's Law". The main point about that VA Tech cluster is that it is now pretty old, as things go on the top 500 list. On this, "Like using Mac's in an enterprise or government setting? That's what Mike said." Uh, Macs are used in both settings. I've done it myself and know many others who have and still do. You should get out a bit more. The main impediment is the proprietary data formats created and perpetuated by Microsoft; but then I repeat myself since I've noted this multiple times before.
robertsjoe
on May 12, 2009
@waethorn: "Less than what it would've cost them to buy the music from iTunes." That's a lie. You charged them less than 99 cents?
whiplash55
on May 12, 2009
@robertjoe How do you charge people who get infections from stealing music? I charge them $75 an hour and they gladly pay it. I also have given up trying to tell people to act intelligently online. They don't want to listen,and they get P.O.ed when you try to tell them. You want to steal music, go for it, you know my number.
robertsjoe
on May 12, 2009
@waethorn: ""Unless you want me to stoop to your childish level " AHAHAHAHAHA! Good one!" I was referring to calling one another names. Not to the childish posts on the site. Which we all do. Yours are just the worst of the whole bunch.
shark47
on May 12, 2009
Seriously, don't give him so much attention. This is just some pesky little kid in Japan that says weird stuff hoping someone will respond.
robertsjoe
on May 12, 2009
@dikegalos: You have no idea at all. See here: http://www.arc.vt.edu/arc/SystemX/ Using OS X!!! It's hard when you guys are so ignorant.
robertsjoe
on May 12, 2009
@whiplash55: $75 sounds reasonable. how long does it take? The examples I've seen are people being charged up to $600 to re-install the OS for them. I think that's crazy. Yes, one should be paid for one's time. But at a reasonable amount.
robertsjoe
on May 12, 2009
@chuck84: And that they do use OS X. Something Mike claimed was not so. Again, he's wrong. I'm sure they needed to write their own software to string the machines together. But the fact is that they are running OS X.
tayme
on May 12, 2009
Like I said...the words "Apple Tax" have gotten the desired results...from both sides!!! Nearing 120 comments and just getting started, I'd say. IT keeps getting funnier. By the way, Zune hardware is great. Waiting to see what the ZuneHD will be...if anything at all. The Zune Pass is awesome. Oh, and by the way...the Zune Pass DRM can play on any Plays for Sure, now known as Certified for Windows Vista, device. Google (or Live Search, if you so desire) it...I have done it with a Creative Zen before getting a Zune. We had 2 Zunes and 1 Zen...subscription music worked on all 3 just fine. --tayme
Waethorn
on May 12, 2009
@robertsjoe: It's $40/hour for malware removal. I couldn't honestly charge less than that for the work involved in removing some of the new crap floating around. If someone opts for that, removal is done almost completely manually. It's VERY laborious. Most people opt for a format/reinstall of Windows for $75 instead to get the equivalent of a like-new machine. I can also guarantee that the system won't have any traces of any malware with that option. Installation of all Windows updates, removal of unnecessary apps (bundled crapware), installation of Adobe Flash Player, Reader, and Java, as well as any other provided discs for software are included in that charge. The customer must provide AT THE VERY LEAST, a genuine Windows installation disc and valid product key for THAT computer (not another one), or else the system must have an OEM recovery partition intact. If they can't provide a way to install Windows, they either need to contact the OEM or Microsoft for OEM install discs. If they can't procure any for a minimal fee, legally I can't perform a reformat unless they purchase a copy from me. Backups are not provided in that cost. It's $25 for a 2GB backup (legal data files only, including documents, pictures, financial files, legal music (CD rips or purchased downloads), tax files, legal videos (home movies), etc.), $35 for a 4GB, or $55 for an 8GB backup. All of which are included on a USB thumbdrive. Anything over 8GB is performed for a flat $50 fee, although the customer doesn't receive a thumbdrive. If they provide a thumbdrive for backup, the charge is a flat $25. So most virus/spyware "cleanups" are in the neighbourhood of $100-110 if they opt for a backup. Many places charge a lot more than that, but I'm trying to be honest about service. A format/reinstall takes a couple hours of actual work (especially for XP), but the bench time is much longer than that. Even if you figure it's $50/hour, that's pretty competitive with standard IT contract rates. Prices are in Canadian dollars. People around here are happy with the service they receive, which is why my store earned a reader's choice award for computer service in the local paper for the past year.
Waethorn
on May 12, 2009
"That's a lie. You charged them less than 99 cents?" You mean people that pirate music only download one song? That's that Mackie naivety talking again.
Waethorn
on May 12, 2009
"the Zune Pass DRM can play on any Plays for Sure" O RLY?! Nice! *tapping fingers, still waiting for Zune Marketplace to come to Canada*
robertsjoe
on May 12, 2009
@waethorn: That sounds very reasonable. Like I said, I've unfortunately seen a couple of people be totally being taken advantage off. I guess it happens anywhere and by many people. Just didn't like to sound of them being charged $600 for re-installing the OS.
Waethorn
on May 12, 2009
"The examples I've seen are people being charged up to $600 to re-install the OS for them" Wow. Just wow. What was that you were saying about peddling to chumps? If I charged that much, I could be wealthily retired by now. For $600, you could buy a new machine with a brand new OS installation already on it. ....but not a Mac ;)
Waethorn
on May 12, 2009
@robertsjoe: I have honestly NEVER seen anywhere around here, Mac or PC shop, where it cost that much to reinstall an OS, unless maybe you're talking about a major server OS and you're paying for on-site installation by someone that's charging for IT integration (custom workstation system connected to a domain maybe - I could see that happen there). NEVER for a consumer machine though. That's just crazy. Someone would be crazier to pay that though.
Waethorn
on May 12, 2009
@robertsjoe: Does this mean that we're starting to break new ground and understand each other a bit better now?
Waethorn
on May 12, 2009
Newsflash: Beelzebub needs his housecoat and fuzzy bunny slippers. ;)
Waethorn
on May 12, 2009
@all: Remember what I was saying about where to get your downloads? Here's another good reason why you should only get it directly from the vendor: http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=3370
robertsjoe
on May 12, 2009
@waethorn: "Does this mean that we're starting to break new ground and understand each other a bit better now?" Seriously though, I don't have a problem with you or anyone else here. It's just all in good fun. I'm seriously not serious about it. So if I say something like "peddling", it's just in jest. BTW, the $600 charge was to an elderly couple. Unfortunately, some of these guys see people like that coming and think they can charge what they want.
Waethorn
on May 12, 2009
@rj: I think I like you now. Kisses for daddy? :P
robertsjoe
on May 12, 2009
From the Macalope: "The Zune must really suck goat balls if it can’t compete against a device that costs $10,000" Funny 'cause it's true.
robertsjoe
on May 12, 2009
@waethorn: Hmm :P when you say kisses? Please, no tongue! :)
wjglenn141
on May 12, 2009
It does miss the fact that most people won't fill up their iPod with music from the iTunes Store. Instead, it will be filled with music from CDs, some music from the store, videos, podcasts, and so on. But it also might backfire and convince people that the Zune only offers subscription, when you can obviously place purchased music on it, too. I really like the subscription model. It's a great way to discover new music. I wish Apple offered it.
chuckb84
on May 12, 2009
And while we're talking about effective advertising..... http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/ I especially like "Elimination". Microsoft really set themselves up for these.
pyknic
on May 12, 2009
Personally, I got a Zune because I think it is just a better device overall than an iPod (btw:i have owned an ipod). It has more features, radio, wireless sync, etc. I use the iTunes store, however to purchase my music, since I have a problem with Zune DRM songs on my computer. iTunes also has a larger library. I would use the Zune Pass, since it seems to be a better deal for the time you are subscribed, if I didn't have a problem with the Zune DRM.
shark47
on May 12, 2009
"And while we're talking about effective advertising....." Effective because a self-confessed Microsoft hater likes them? I would say Microsoft's ads were pretty effective, if only because they got a lot of Mac fanatics riled up. I like the one Wae posted earlier today: http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/015047b2f4/laptop-hunters-jennie Don't know if it's "effective", but I found it to be funny. :)
whiplash55
on May 12, 2009
@robersjoe To clean the average messed up XP machine takes about an hour. If it requires a reinstall I can usually do it for $150. If they don't have a backup I can usually get the data off and reinstalled for $150 bucks but I've spent 3 hours before when there was multiple user accounts or I had to fix a hardware problem they "forgot" to mention.
robertsjoe
on May 12, 2009
3 new great Get A Mac ads. All very true: http://movies.apple.com/media/us/mac/getamac/2009/apple-mvp-pc_choice_ch... http://movies.apple.com/media/us/mac/getamac/2009/apple-mvp-elimination-... http://movies.apple.com/media/us/mac/getamac/2009/apple-mvp-customer_car...
mikegalos@msn.com
on May 12, 2009
Chuck "I DO know something of the VA Tech cluster. " Apparently not since you're talking about the 2003 cluster and not the new cluster that just showed up on the Top 500 on the November 2008 list (the latest one). They're that low on the list because that's where they are and not that they aged off. (That'll probably happen within the year at the rate the Top 500 changes)
robertsjoe
on May 12, 2009
@whiplash55: That sounds reasonable also.
robertsjoe
on May 12, 2009
@mike: What you see on the VTech page is what they are running now. Yes, the project started in 2003 (which it mentions at the top). But it is the current info. And yes, it runs on OS X. As it said at the top, it ranked up to #47 in the 500 list. Do I need to email them and confirm this so you accept it?
chuckb84
on May 12, 2009
Mike, I was speaking of the 2003 cluster (G5s) and didn't know there was a new one. The G5s did quite well because they made good use of Altivec. And you're right, about a year on that list is the lifetime of most clusters.
chuckb84
on May 12, 2009
@shark "Effective because a self-confessed Microsoft hater likes them? I would say Microsoft's ads were pretty effective, if only because they got a lot of Mac fanatics riled up. I like the one Wae posted earlier today: www.funnyordie.com/.../laptop-hunters-jennie Don't know if it's "effective", but I found it to be funny. :)" Self-confessed Microsoft hater....I kind of like that. Of course, it skips over the point of WHY I feel that way, but never mind. You're right though, "effective" is something that we won't know until we see if they continue to drive Macintosh sales. However, the ads are an effective response to the Microsoft spots, and show why Microsoft should never have let themselves be drawn into such a back and forth. Note well: MIcrosoft mentions Apple in all their ads, while their own product, Windows (remember, Windows?) isn't even mentioned. Apple responds to Microsoft while never mentioning WIndows. When both sides in an ad duel mention Apple, and neither mentions Windows, it is pretty clear who set the rules and who's winning, even if Microsoft and its backers don't see that. Earlier, the ads took a humorous view of well-known (or at least, widely perceived) issues with PCs, while these new ones are riposting against the Microsoft ads. While that appeals to me, and you get the point even if you disagree, most people won't see that. The ads suffer a little from the same inscrutability of the Gates/Seinfeld spots, but not nearly so much. In the end, they're still funny and carry the same message as the previous ones. Finally, and I didn't think of this until just now, the Apple ads are first person, while the Microsoft ads use a narrator and a 3rd person point of view. In one sense, that distinction seems irrelevant and in another way it is vital. Microsoft is -telling- you the message, while the Apple spot is showing it. Microsoft is still big brother, Apple is still the little guy. Feel free to debate technical issues on OSX vs. Windows, but there is no doubt at all about who's winning the ad wars. With 90%+ marketshare, Microsoft was silly to enter into this.
ccambell
on May 12, 2009
I love it when Microsoft squirms when they don't have a monopoly on something... love it. Craig
bettieblu
on May 13, 2009
The elimination ad was a simple but very effective response to the Laptop Hunters ads. Microsoft cant win the ad war. Watching the Sci-Fi channel last night and there was a self promoting ad asking you to go to the Sci-Fi web site and enter blah...blah...blah. It was Safari on a Mac in the ad.
shark47
on May 13, 2009
"Self-confessed Microsoft hater....I kind of like that. Of course, it skips over the point of WHY I feel that way, but never mind." I love the way people attempt to rationalize these feelings.
DRWAM
on May 13, 2009
Microsoft Zune Car Pack v2 for $10 + $5 s&h Today only, Woot Sellout offers the Microsoft Zune Car Pack v2, model no. H9A-00001, for $9.99. With $5 for shipping. Look at bootom of page http://shopping.yahoo.com/#woot

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