Apple Tax 2.0

With Macworld opening tomorrow, Microsoft has begun discussing the “Apple Tax” again. The company last brought up this concept in October, just before Apple released more-expensive-than-the-previous-version MacBook and MacBook Pro models, which was good timing. And indeed, my initial take on this was that Microsoft was on to something. I wrote about this in a WinInfo article back in October.

Now, a few months later, Microsoft is again discussing the Apple Tax. And while I know a significant number of people will simply take offense to this for whatever reason, I feel even more strongly than before that Microsoft is right. Here’s an article going out in WinInfo tomorrow:

On Eve of Macworld, Microsoft Again Highlights 'Apple Tax'

With the economy in freefall, Microsoft this week continued its discussion of the "Apple Tax," what it says are the additional costs associated with using the Mac platform instead of a Windows-based PC. According to the company, the severity of the Apple Tax has only gotten worse in the past few months, as Apple has released expensive new Macs despite ever-worsening economic conditions. The discussion is occurring the day before Apple opens its Macworld trade show in San Francisco.

"Windows is more compatible than the Mac, but it's also more compatible with today's budgets," Microsoft Corporate Vice President of Windows Consumer Marketing Brad Brooks told me in a briefing on Monday. "Around the globe, people need to balance the interests they have with the realities of the economy. Windows PCs are a better value than Macs, and that's true at every price point."

Microsoft first began discussing the Apple Tax concept in October, just before Apple shipped new Macbook notebook computers that were even more expensive than their predecessors, a curious move given the economy. At the time, much of the discuss was around the cost of switching, comparisons of Macs and PCs at different price points, and the lack of innovative new hardware features. These issues continue to this day, Brooks pointed out. But the problem is exacerbated by the value of Windows, Apple's continued insistence on only serving the high end of the market, and the design aesthetics of Apple hardware, which limits choice.

"Apple fans like to say that the company is like the BMW of the PC world," Brooks said. "Fair enough. But we're Toyota, and we have the Corolla on the low-end and Lexus on the high-end. And both offer tremendous value across the board."

"Microsoft has been delivering low cost technology to the masses for over 30 years," he continued. "And we're going to push this concept of 'Life Without Walls' going forward and explain to people the value they get when they run Windows on the PC, on the Internet, and on their phones." Brooks noted that the upcoming Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas was an obvious time for make this renewed push for Windows, including Windows Vista and 7 on the PC, Windows Live on the Internet, and Windows Mobile on phones.

"Look, the Apple Tax gap is widening, not shrinking," Brooks said. "And it plays out in so many different ways. There is the upfront cost of the machines, the lack of technology innovation, the compatibility of the devices, the lack of form factor choices, and so much more. The gap has never been greater." Brooks said that Apple machines were luxury items while PCs happy straddle the gap between utility and luxury. "You can get even more technology in Windows at the same price point than you can with a Mac than you could as recently as October," he added.

Brooks hinted that PC users should stay tuned to Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer's CES keynote address on Wednesday evening. "Let's just say it's going to be an interesting talk," he told me.

And, for completeness sake, some Microsoft charts highlighting some examples of the Apple Tax. Enjoy.

Discuss this Article 184

RunTimeError
on Jan 5, 2009
"Allow me to make a confession that may surprise you. I've been a Mac fan my entire life." Paul Thurrott. April 14, 2005
anothergeek
on Jan 5, 2009
Bring on the Apple trolls.
Lindy
on Jan 5, 2009
"Around the globe, people need to balance the interests they have with the realities of the economy." Ok so the economy sucks, but I am doing just fine (so far), so I should not buy what I want with MY money even if I can afford it? I should buy what they think I should buy because they say so or they are making me feel guilty about wanting something different? Wow did Josef Stalin take over Microsoft? Is this part of the 300 million extra spent on advertising??? I love how they drop out this list of hardware, most of which will probably be old.....um tomorrow after Apple announcements. Lets just take that iMac in the example, who determines which is better? I never have used media slots on any computer even when I had them, I just use a USB cable. However I might like the faster CPU or better video card instead. Maybe firewire 800 would make my day? I should just move to Cuba so that someone else can make all of my choices for me.
Lindy
on Jan 5, 2009
@RunTimeError that was good. Nothing better than his own words.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
I love the line "Microsoft is right". Translated "the company that butters my bread is right"
danieldecker
on Jan 5, 2009
Utterly asinine.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
Instead of posting about CES you're still obsessed with Apple?
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 5, 2009
"Allow me to make a confession that may surprise you. I've been a Mac fan my entire life." Paul Thurrott. April 14, 2005 And even with Paul's admitted Mac bias, the Apple fanatics still think Paul's biased AGAINST Apple because he doesn't say their products are perfect. Thanks for making the point clearer, RTE.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 5, 2009
It'll be interesting to see how much or little those charts change after the keynotes over the next two days.
jvd897
on Jan 5, 2009
@"I've been a Mac fan my entire life" What does that have to do with anything? Isn't it possible to like Mac products while at the same time disliking Apple's business choices? Apple fanatics, take what you can get.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 5, 2009
FYI: For those who might have been confused by robertsjoe's confused posting... MacWorld Expo opened today (Keynote with Phil Schiller tomorrow at 9:00AM PST - not online but liveblogged by most Mac fansites) CES opens Thursday (pre-show Keynote with Steve Balmer and Robbie Bach Wednesday night at 6:30PM PST - viewable live at http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/events/ces/default.mspx)
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
He may be a Mac fan, but he's a Microsoft fanboy.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 5, 2009
And, for all the Mac heads who keep posting their content-free revulsion at somebody actually doing fashion review of their emperor's new clothes, please, let us know which of these taxes is false and document why: The upfront cost of the machines The lack of technology innovation The compatibility of the devices The lack of form factor choices And that's not even discussing the synergy of Window combined with Windows Live combined with Windows Mobile.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
@mikegalos: It will also be interesting how much more blue covers this chart in 2009. http://i38.tinypic.com/35bti6c.png
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
@mikegalos: "Windows Live combined with Windows Mobile." Please, don't try and ask a serious question and mention Windows Mobile and Windows Live in the same lot. That's funny, but sad at the same time.
subzerohitman721
on Jan 5, 2009
Wow, that must have stung. The trolls are out enmass today. I think Microsoft has a good point. The technologies that underline Apple's hardware has been dropping steadily in price for years. Yet all we've seen from Apple lately is "New" devices with more cash up front. Lets go though this argument. How in the heck can you charge more when memory, hard drives, motherboards, processors, power supplies, and displays have been falling for years? It doesn't make sense. Even if you were to point out supply and demand, Apple has 9% of the U.S. market and almost 4% world wide. Yet there are no Mac shortages anywhere in the world. The increased demand hasn't impacted the supply, so why are the prices on Mac's going up? Then you have the lack of form factors as sited in the article. The Mac Mini is their only desktop form. The Mac Pro is the only Tower. There are no mini-Tower form fators. Unlike the Microsoft side, where there's plenty of forms, upgradeability, and options to boot. Software? Microsoft wins that in spades. There are still software thats unavailable on the Mac including games. There are still internet services that are still incompatable with Mac because of the lack of software support. Infact, it was thanks to Microsoft adding Mac support for Silverlight, that Mac users can now use the "Watch Instantly" feature by Netflix. This is stuff that Culpertino should have fixed a long time ago. So we have cheaper hardware, demand not outstripping the supply, limited form factors, and software incompatability. These would be reasons to lower your price not increase them. The bottom line, MIcrosoft has a legit argument on the Apple tax. I know the Mac Fanatic will come and attack me personally instead of countering the argument. The end result is that the artificial inflation of Apple PC prices is a credible counterattack to the rise of Apple. As for the argument that you can afford it? If you make the cash, good for you. Unfortunately for many world wide, credit has been shut off. People are living way beyond their means. Most people don't have sufficient reserve savings incase things go wrong. Then there is the obvious question. If a Windows/Linux PC is worth X and Mac is worth Y, where Y is a value $300 to $500 more than X, don't it beg the question that somebody is completely ripping you off? How is that fair for your hard earned cash, that someone is demanding more from you just for a shiny logo and molded plastic?
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
@mikegalos: You're still going on about how 12 versions of Vista 1, 16 of Office and 32 of SQL Serve is better? And you wonder why Microsoft doesn't get positive press? That's one reason.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
@subzerohitman721: stung? How can it sting when Apple is right and Microsoft is clearly (always) wrong?
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 5, 2009
Subzero Yeah, apparently they don't really have an answer so they're trying to change the subject and attacking the messengers. Still, it'll be an interesting week with two major keynotes. (Especially now that we know that the Jobs keynote was cancelled due to health reasons and not just downplaying a lack of anything interesting to show combined with the "Let's just say it's going to be an interesting talk" teaser for the Ballmer/Bach keynote)
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
@mikegalos: Lack of technology innovation? This from MS? They are Xerox, man! Wake up to yourself. They copy.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
@mikegalos: Those points you listed are not things that make Microsoft "better" than anyone else. They are methods they used to become a monopoly. Convicted of it, don't forget. Those are methods used to become a monopoly. Shall I say it again so you get it? They are not points of superiority over anyone else.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
Apple introduces the Apple Wheel http://www.theonion.com/content/video/apple_introduces_revolutionary Microsoft expected to announce a copy soon.
derdf
on Jan 5, 2009
I've been trying to read through the Microsoft charts. I don't understand why didn't they mention the above-average built-in speakers inside the iMac, and how they can use i7/C2D processors to compare to the Xeon processors. I mean it's fair to bash the Mac mini, because they haven't been updated for years. But is it possible to use an Intel X3100 to replace an Radeon HD 2400 XT on any given 3D games money can buy? Come on, Microsoft. Macs are not the cheapest machine on earth, but let's do comparison in a fairer and more meaningful way. --Raphael CHAN http://rdf.nxstg.com/
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 5, 2009
I'm really amused by all of the "It's all going to change tomorrow" postings by the Mac heads. They really do think that suddenly Macs will be superpowerful machines in all kinds of form factors and competitively priced. That's so cute. The interesting question is whether Schiller can generate the Jobs' Reality Distortion Field well enough to keep the Mac faithful from noticing the usual missing features and higher prices. With Jobs doing the keynote, reality usually doesn't hit until the next day or at worst late afternoon.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
Don't forget to also mention the Microsoft End User Virus Tax. That they need to run anti-virus, anti-spyware, anti-rootkit software. That it slows down their system. Wastes time and money needing to take care of those things. That should something sneak by that it can hose your Windows box. Also mention that it's not a concern for OS X or Linux users.
Master3
on Jan 5, 2009
"And, for all the Mac heads who keep posting their content-free revulsion at somebody actually doing fashion review of their emperor's new clothes, please, let us know which of these taxes is false and document why:" Does it really matter at this point? This has already descended into a Paul is a b@stard, This site sucks, post irrelevant links, troll-a-thon. All we need is for Ocean to scream his indignation, and 233 posts leading to a discussion of mid-east policy, for this great cluster-o-frack to be complete
Master3
on Jan 5, 2009
"Don't forget to also mention the Microsoft End User Virus Tax. That they need to run anti-virus, anti-spyware, anti-rootkit software. That it slows down their system." Doesn't slow down mine. Then again I dont do things that make me have to worry about them to begin with. And besides those programs are 99% free, so you are out of 0 dollars. "Also mention that it's not a concern for OS X or Linux users. " Funny how an Issue of a Linux magazine I saw recently was all about security issues with the OS, and there are similar articles for Macs as well. If no worry, then why bother writing that stuff? But hey, if they want to be stupid and be careless with their machines because they think they are 100% safe behind a rand name, then whatever.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 5, 2009
OK, to be totally fair, the MacBook Wheel (see link posted by robertsjoe, above) is the epitome of the Steve Jobs/Apple design philosophy and its fans both in and out of the media.
weedmonk
on Jan 5, 2009
Brace yourselves. The dinner bell has been wrung across the iWebitubes and the hordes are a coming. Wonder if this will be addressed in the Shill-note tomorrow.
johnpapola
on Jan 5, 2009
This whole debate is ridiculous. Microsoft has every right to point out the price differential. Bring it on. If people pay for a product, then it's fairly priced. Better than "fair", in fact. It's the market price. So far, despite all naysaying by Paul and others about the new macbooks being a poor value, they appear to be selling great. If demand sags and the company is forced to cut the price, they obviously do so or risk shrinking their business. It's not like it's hard to determine the price comparison between Macs and PCs. Consumers aren't stupid. Frankly, I find it strange that Microsoft would even feel the need to point it out repeatedly, as if it isn't obvious to even Best Buy shopper in America. Perhaps it's because Apple's marketshare continues to climb despite every product and marketing effort Redmond tries. Whatever. Windows 7 looks to be taking more design cues from Apple and generally improving, so the competition is very healthy. Everyone wins.
Delmont
on Jan 5, 2009
Master3: "All we need is for Ocean to scream his indignation, and 233 posts leading to a discussion of mid-east policy, for this great cluster-o-frack to be complete" LOL LOL
johnpapola
on Jan 5, 2009
Oh, and that Mac Pro comparison is completely misleading if not outright dishonest. The Mac Pro is a Xeon-powered workstation and has long been cheaper than comparable 8-core machines by sometimes $1500 or more. But I guess it's only a lie when Apple is does it, right?
Julzz
on Jan 5, 2009
Macs To me Are Rip Off. a 1gb machine for 1599 AUD. While i can get a Super Pc with 5gb for that much. Even Microsoft 88% windows 7 will gain them market share back. People will soon know macs are ripped off.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 5, 2009
"If people pay for a product, then it's fairly priced. " Both P.T. Barnum and S.P. Jobs find people who believe that a real comfort...
johnpapola
on Jan 5, 2009
Actually, Mike, it's called "economics".
volwrath
on Jan 5, 2009
@johnpapola.: not saying you are correct, but if you are, whats good for the goose is good for the gander. I cant tell you how many people tell me vista is aweful, but they don't actually run it. The fact is the apple ads have been misleading for a long time.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 5, 2009
Actually, John, there's a Mac user born every minute.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
@jullz: "While i can get a Super Pc with 5gb for that much." But it's running Windows. That's the poison in the soup.
Lindy
on Jan 5, 2009
"I'm really amused by all of the "It's all going to change tomorrow" postings by the Mac heads. They really do think that suddenly Macs will be superpowerful machines in all kinds of form factors and competitively priced." Oh I dont know Mike, maybe because all three of the Mac's in the charts above are rumored to be getting updates, in less than 24hrs??? Call me crazy but that is probably why people are saying that???? The rumors of the Mini and iMac are pretty strong, posted by non-apples fanboy sites as well. The Mac Pro not as much but still they are there. Oh I guess we will see if you prediction that the new mini wont be user upgradeable (memory/hardrive) tomorrow. I wonder why MS does not compare say this Dell that is a true workstation with 2-Xeons quad cores, 2.0ghz, with 1gig of ram.... http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=555&l=en&oc=M... To this Mac Pro with 2-Xeon quad cores at 2.8ghz with 2gig of RAM. http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/configure/MA970LL/A?mco=NzQ3Njkz You know workstation to workstation. I know it makes to much sense, and if you upgrade the Dell to 2.8ghz Xeons the price goes higher than Apple.....is that Dell or Windows Tax? Subzero does that not reply directly to your questions? "If a Windows/Linux PC is worth X and Mac is worth Y, where Y is a value $300 to $500 more than X, don't it beg the question that somebody is completely ripping you off? How is that fair for your hard earned cash, that someone is demanding more from you just for a shiny logo and molded plastic?" Ripping you off? What if you think Leopard is better than Vista? What if you like the fact that you dont have to deal with virus problems ( I removed "AntiVirus 2009" from a Vista PC today, that belonged to a friend). What if you take comfort in the fact that you OS maker, is your PC maker as well and there are not driver issues with your OS and computer. If that stuff concerns you then I bet you dont feel like you getting ripped off.
tayme
on Jan 5, 2009
I tend to agree with the people saying that if people are willing to pay a price for something, then so be it. In fact, I have 2 Macs in my house, as well as several other PC's running various Windows and Linux versions. What I find hilarious though is when trolls like robertsjoe continue to come here spewing the same old crap over and over again. Talk about a broke record. Then he has the nads to act indignant when others call him out on it. Enjoy yourself tomorrow in school robertsjoe. Maybe you can watch the keynote in the library. --tayme
shark47
on Jan 5, 2009
Isn't this Apple Tax argument getting old? Microsoft needs to stop being childish about this. Man, is robertsjoe annoying!
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
@tayme: "What I find hilarious though is when trolls like robertsjoe continue to come here spewing the same old crap over and over again. Talk about a broke record. Then he has the nads to act indignant when others call him out on it. Enjoy yourself tomorrow in school robertsjoe." "Spewing same old crap"? You can't complain. You, mike, others and the blog do the same. It all goes around. Pot calling the kettle black there.
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
Saw an old man shopping for anti-virus software at a local store the other day. Felt sorry for him. Sorry that he has to deal with that crap because he's been conned in to Microsoft tax (Windows).
robertsjoe
on Jan 5, 2009
To get the truth and a more balanced view of the world, especially things MSFT.. check out some cool sites: http://www.msboycott.com/super/a-e.shtml http://www.msboycott.com/super/f-n.shtml http://www.msboycott.com/super/o-z.shtml http://borgwatch.blogspot.com/ http://www.msfree.com/ Plenty out there. The truth is out there.
subzerohitman721
on Jan 5, 2009
@Lindy, I can find workstations that do cost a whole lot less than Mac workstations and get the job done. Just open any flyer from Microcenter that sells business class workstations and the sticker price is obvious. As for Viruses, since I've purchased my machine in June 2007, I've not had one single viral infection on my Vista system. PERIOD. Same with my father's machine, same with my brother's notebook, and same with several of my friends running Vista. Just because code writers aren't targeting Mac, doesn't mean that will stay constant. Eventually, they are going to take notice and then you'll wish you heeded our warnings. People get viruses mostly these days because they go on sites that are tainted. Macs are just as vulnerable to these kids of problems as Windows. The over 250 patches in 2008 for Leopard alone should have every Mac user screaming at Culpertino for a security refresh. You guys are being delusional at best, by saying its better and you don't need anti-virus. Its simply a matter of time before some virus writer outthere figures it out. But spewing the lies that Macs are completely invulnerable is BS. I don't buy Dell's but the proof is clear. You can built a similar system for less. As for John's argument about this argument being "ridiculous", I think he's 100% wrong. A Mac Pro Tower has 8 cores, but Leopard isn't even coded to take full advantage of all 8 cores. So why sell a system in which the OS can't even use the hardware right? Its overkill and people purchasing that tower are being ripped off. Explain the logic of having 8 cores but the OS give no performance enhancement? This was proven by benchmark testing and yet you guys call this "value"? When a quad core Intel running Vista or Windows Server 2008 and Mac Pro running 8 cores have almost the same performance results?
tayme
on Jan 5, 2009
@robertsjoe - I suggest that you take a step back and read some of my previous posts. I have had these same types of discussions with mikegalos and Waethorn as well. For you to say that I am a MS fanboy is total BS, and you know it. I think that this perceived OS War is a load and those that are as blinded by brand loyalty as you, Ocean, mikegalos, Waethorn, and others are the true losers. Can you tell me what it is about Windows Mobile that you don't like. I just bought a Samsung Omnia running WinMo 6.1 Pro and then I skinned it with spb Mobile Shell. I didn't have to, but I wanted to. MS gives me the option of doing this. The closest that you can come to that on an iPhone is decals and wallpaper. The Omnia outperforms the iPhone by a long shot as well. From the number of apps to the FM Radio to the Opera browser. Better in every way. Of course, you wouldn't know...you are in the basement on daddy's iMac and too blinded by Steve Jobs' aura to even know the first thing about either one. So, like I said...enjoy your day at school tomorrow. Make sure that you find some time to get in front of a library PC to watch the MacWorld keynote. Of course, *IF* Apple sticks to its word and Jobs doesn't show up and they truly pull out of MacWorld, you and the rest of the Macinbots will be saing how lame keynotes and trade shows are at this time next year...kind of like how you all changed your tune about PowerPC vs. Intel a few years ago. --tayme
SandmanX82
on Jan 5, 2009
@Lindy "I should buy what they think I should buy because they say so or they are making me feel guilty about wanting something different?" Of course not, buy whatever the hell you want. It's just funny that you talk about what others decide you should want, when Apple decided I shouldn't want an FM tuner in my iPod or that in 2009 my mom still doesn't want a damn card reader in her computer and instead has to search for a USB cord all the time. "I love how they drop out this list of hardware, most of which will probably be old.....um tomorrow after Apple announcements." What does that matter? If I were to have bought a Mac a month ago, a week ago, or TODAY even, that chart would reflect the comparison.
Lindy
on Jan 5, 2009
@SandmanX82 you prove my point. NO ONE told you had to buy a iPod. Buy a Zune if you want a FM tuner. You dont see some Apple exec spouting off that communist sh!t about "Around the globe, people need to balance the interests they have with the realities of the economy." Cry me a freaking river I live in the US not mainland China. If its on the shelf, and I have the money I buy what I want. Maybe there is some hidden message in the "Zune Social".
johnpapola
on Jan 5, 2009
All's fair in love, war and competition. Microsoft can squawk about Apple taxes. It's fine. People that see value in OSX and iLife and great looking, well made computers aren't stupid for buying them. I'm happy to see that Microsoft taking Apple's competition so seriously. They're clearly obsessed with Apple, and that's good. The competition is great for the industry. @subzero "A Mac Pro Tower has 8 cores, but Leopard isn't even coded to take full advantage of all 8 cores. " Or... Apple makes amazing, aggressively priced professional software (which is thousands less than Avid) that all ships with grid computing for multi-proc and multi-machine rendering. My video encodes hit all 8 cores and scream on my Mac Pro thanks to Xgrid and Qmaster. Than there is the multi-tasking. Running an After Effects render than continuing to edit 10bit, 1080p video with no slowdown is worth every single nickel and, again, hit's all 8 cores and loves all 9gb of RAM. The Mac Pro is aimed at professionals (hence the name) and it serves us very very well. Leopard and Final Cut leverage the power beautifully and I expect the next round of updates to take my existing system even farther. And since content creation is becoming the main driver of computing power needs (with gaming moving fully to consoles), I think Apple's software in this arena is more valuable than just the pro media niche. So you're just 100% dead wrong. No offense. Most people don't need 8 cores, which is why most consumers are buy notebooks. Towers are a dying breed in mainstream computing.

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