Apple Tax 2.0

With Macworld opening tomorrow, Microsoft has begun discussing the “Apple Tax” again. The company last brought up this concept in October, just before Apple released more-expensive-than-the-previous-version MacBook and MacBook Pro models, which was good timing. And indeed, my initial take on this was that Microsoft was on to something. I wrote about this in a WinInfo article back in October.

Now, a few months later, Microsoft is again discussing the Apple Tax. And while I know a significant number of people will simply take offense to this for whatever reason, I feel even more strongly than before that Microsoft is right. Here’s an article going out in WinInfo tomorrow:

On Eve of Macworld, Microsoft Again Highlights 'Apple Tax'

With the economy in freefall, Microsoft this week continued its discussion of the "Apple Tax," what it says are the additional costs associated with using the Mac platform instead of a Windows-based PC. According to the company, the severity of the Apple Tax has only gotten worse in the past few months, as Apple has released expensive new Macs despite ever-worsening economic conditions. The discussion is occurring the day before Apple opens its Macworld trade show in San Francisco.

"Windows is more compatible than the Mac, but it's also more compatible with today's budgets," Microsoft Corporate Vice President of Windows Consumer Marketing Brad Brooks told me in a briefing on Monday. "Around the globe, people need to balance the interests they have with the realities of the economy. Windows PCs are a better value than Macs, and that's true at every price point."

Microsoft first began discussing the Apple Tax concept in October, just before Apple shipped new Macbook notebook computers that were even more expensive than their predecessors, a curious move given the economy. At the time, much of the discuss was around the cost of switching, comparisons of Macs and PCs at different price points, and the lack of innovative new hardware features. These issues continue to this day, Brooks pointed out. But the problem is exacerbated by the value of Windows, Apple's continued insistence on only serving the high end of the market, and the design aesthetics of Apple hardware, which limits choice.

"Apple fans like to say that the company is like the BMW of the PC world," Brooks said. "Fair enough. But we're Toyota, and we have the Corolla on the low-end and Lexus on the high-end. And both offer tremendous value across the board."

"Microsoft has been delivering low cost technology to the masses for over 30 years," he continued. "And we're going to push this concept of 'Life Without Walls' going forward and explain to people the value they get when they run Windows on the PC, on the Internet, and on their phones." Brooks noted that the upcoming Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas was an obvious time for make this renewed push for Windows, including Windows Vista and 7 on the PC, Windows Live on the Internet, and Windows Mobile on phones.

"Look, the Apple Tax gap is widening, not shrinking," Brooks said. "And it plays out in so many different ways. There is the upfront cost of the machines, the lack of technology innovation, the compatibility of the devices, the lack of form factor choices, and so much more. The gap has never been greater." Brooks said that Apple machines were luxury items while PCs happy straddle the gap between utility and luxury. "You can get even more technology in Windows at the same price point than you can with a Mac than you could as recently as October," he added.

Brooks hinted that PC users should stay tuned to Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer's CES keynote address on Wednesday evening. "Let's just say it's going to be an interesting talk," he told me.

And, for completeness sake, some Microsoft charts highlighting some examples of the Apple Tax. Enjoy.

Discuss this Article 184

panache1023
on Jan 6, 2009
The best post of Mike Galos so far was this one. ""Cost is objective.Value is subjective." And P.T. Barnum smiles from beyond the grave." Hey mike....what if a family member bequeaths an object that you can buy in the store for $5 to a child....the COST of the object was $5, but the VALUE *may* be immeasurable......sometimes things that you can buy for a certain dollar amount are *PRICELESS* to others. The fact that you would even say your PT Barnum comment in response to the cost is object value is subjective clearly shows how clueless you are.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 6, 2009
Apparently those charts don't need to change based on MacWorld Expo announcements since there were no changes to the iMac or Mac Pro or Mac mini lines and only a change to MacBook Pro 17" which wasn't mentioned.
Avro
on Jan 6, 2009
@tayme and @Lindy Let me run down just a few of the 'Get a Mac' adverts. The frequent complaint we get from Windows fans is that the adverts are lies and say nothing good about OS X. But is this the case? Windows criticisms • (Choose a Vista) Too many versions of Vista -IMHO True. I was in a computer shop and they were selling Vista at a decent price and I thought I would get one for my Mac Pro, but was so confused by all the versions went home empty handed. A few days later I decided to take a postgrad course that demanded XP so I got that instead. • (Restarting) The Windows experience is blotted by freezing and having to restart In my experience there is some truth to this. I had the Mother and Father of all freezes on Windows ME 10 minutes before having to submit a year end assignment for University back in 2000. I actually could not restart it but luckily was told that I could submit on my Mac and there was a 12 hour grace period. I have not forgotten this and the advert brought it to mind. •(V Word) Microsoft is avoiding mentioning Vista and prefers today to say Windows -IMHO True •(Network) Windows has driver issues In my experience very true and if I remember correctly Leopard does plug and play with 3,000 printers while Vista does only 2,000 • (Meant for Work) Windows is meant for the intranet at the office and doesn't like it when kids do their thing on it -IMHO there is some truth in this. Kids in England have their terms split up by half-terms work or two week long holiday and the number of guys at work complaining that their Windows machines don't function properly. • (Viruses) Windows suffers from viruses while OS X does not -True, but OS X and Linux can suffer from other types of malware • (Stuffed) Many Windows PCs are stuffed with Bloatware -True Adverts that actively promote the Mac • (Out of the Box) -Easier set-up •(iLife) Promotion of iLife -iLife and iWork are good suites • (Time Machine) Promotion of Time Machine -OK the interface is hokey, but it is very popular and people are backing up to a secondary drive •Family Friendly -OS X software is often available at slightly higher cost for a 5 user licence, appropriate for multi-computer households of today •(Tech Support) -In the days of the Sticky-on Webcam and wireless cards the Macs built-in wireless and camera were better •(Pizza Box) -Macs are popular with University and College Students •(Now What) Apple Stores and Genius Bar -Good help in choosing a Mac and centralised support •(Accident) -Promotes the Apple Mag Safe power connector • (Office Stress) - MS Office 2008 is available for the Mac Some of the adverts are exaggerated to be sure but take a look at this Microsoft Apple Tax allegation: Hmmm Price comparison of like with like? I think not. Compatibility of devices? Many friends mention that their devices work well with their OS X and XP computers - but not with Vista. MobileMe, iPods, iPod Touches and iPhones work well with OS X. Please don't mention Office 2007/2008 formats or I may get violent ;-) Lack of technology innovation? How about throwing out the legacy stuff and starting over again. OS X did it. To be fair Apple has exaggerated certain Windows problems and the Windows guys do the same with Apple (ie the alleged MobileMe shortcomings that affected 00.5% of users) Most of us here are quite capable of sorting out our own tech problems. Most switchers I know are interested in tech, but they are not nerds or geeks and this is the target audience for the Mac adverts. They are looking for an easier life.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 6, 2009
john I'm sure the people watching P.T.Barnum's shows would have strongly defended their purchase as a good "value".
Waethorn
on Jan 6, 2009
"I upgrade the vid card in my Mac Pro Tower just in case I wanted to play games or play games when booting in Vista too. So one answer for a better vid card in a Mac would be to play games with Windows" @Doc, everyone: When was the Mac Pro ever marketed as their gaming machine? Besides, when does Apple ever admit to a response like that?: "you can upgrade the computer so that you can do more stuff with it - in Windows" "wireless [Airport] cards are optional on Mac Pro Towers, unlike what he was told by TWO 'Geniuses' in the Apple Store. Real genius. They don't even know their own products." ....and losta wonders why (or maybe how easy it is) I pick up customers from there. "But above you said "That aside, sometimes people have particular computer system specs in mind." Why is it different if those system specs include OS X?" ....and as I said, the people that are dead-set on buying a Mac don't shop at my store. People that are undecided are better suited to a less expensive PC. I have to ultimately persuade them to buy from me by way of a value proposition. You can keep misquoting me by leaving out tidbits of my comments on every post you make, but people on here are smarter than that. As far as value vs. cost is concerned, there's a simple measure of balance: (actual selling price) < (perceived value) > (fair market value of competition). If that calculation doesn't balance then you have problems. The selling price should never be higher than the customer's perceptions otherwise you lose the sale. The market value of competition should be less than the customer's perceptions, but not less than the selling price. If the selling price is too much lower than the market value, then the business is being anti-competitive and it's not doing them any good. If both the selling price and competition are much lower than customer's perceptions, but the price is still lower by a small margin, everybody wins. That's value in a nutshell.
Waethorn
on Jan 6, 2009
"Lack of technology innovation? How about throwing out the legacy stuff and starting over again. OS X did it." Ya, I'm sure that johnpapola's video editing G4 Powerbook is lookin' awfully sad in the corner with no love from Snow Leopard. :)
tayme
on Jan 6, 2009
@Avro - You really should not use the emotion filled stories of yours...mikegalos will pitch a fit! I am not going to run down the full list...but here are a few responses. • (Restarting) The Windows experience is blotted by freezing and having to restart - The story that you had WAS true in ME...and even a little in XP...but I have had to resart Vista less than I have had to restart Leopard. • (Viruses) Windows suffers from viruses while OS X does not - I think that it has been shown that Vista has had fewer vulnerabilities and those were fixed quicker. •(iLife) Promotion of iLife - That is an advert for an application suite...not an OS •(Pizza Box) - Not so popular here in the US with the college crowd. The ystruggle enough with tuition and romm/boarding to afford anything more than what Mom and Dad send them off with. •(Now What) Apple Stores and Genius Bar - Genius Bar...support...surely you jest! •(Accident) The MagSafe is awesome...I'll give you that. --tayme
johnpapola
on Jan 6, 2009
@mike, Don't mock tens of millions of consumers as being ignorant fools for making a legitimate, voluntary choice and then take umbrage for being called an elitist or a jerk. @waethorn "Ya, I'm sure that johnpapola's video editing G4 Powerbook is lookin' awfully sad in the corner with no love from Snow Leopard. :)" Oh, because a 4 year old PC is going to run Windows 7 great. What are you even talking about, dude? I'm all intel as is anyone running processor intensive work. Just one more intellectually bankrupt jab from the lord of the shills, waethorn.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 6, 2009
"How about throwing out the legacy stuff and starting over again. OS X did it." Actually, Microsoft did that in the transition from Windows 9x to the Windows NT based consumer systems such as Windows XP and Windows Vista. It's just that, unlike Apple, they did a good enough job on backward compatibility that you didn't notice. And, unlike Apple, Microsoft actually wrote a modern operating system core. Apple tried to do that but failed miserably several times with Copland and Gershwin and Taligent Pink and had to give up and fall back on pasting their UI on top of a crufty old 3rd party Unix architecture.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 6, 2009
john Am I an "elitist" or a "socialist"? (or are you restricted in some way to only dragging up things that are in the Bill O'Reilly Insult Dictionary)
Waethorn
on Jan 6, 2009
"Oh, because a 4 year old PC is going to run Windows 7 great." Considering that I had a Core Duo about 3 years ago and it ran Vista just fine when it came out, and Windows 7 runs on Atom processors that are both single-core and slower, then yes, I'd say so.
lotsamystuff
on Jan 6, 2009
"Ya, I'm sure that johnpapola's video editing G4 Powerbook is lookin' awfully sad in the corner with no love from Snow Leopard. :)" I have a "video editing G4 PowerBook". Still going strong. Still edits video just fine, thankyouverymuch, and I've made more money off of it than I can count. So what's your point, "Waethorn"? That it won't run an as-yet-unreleased operating system six years after its introduction? You're off the rails. Again.
Waethorn
on Jan 6, 2009
"So what's your point, "Waethorn"? That it won't run an as-yet-unreleased operating system six years after its introduction?" No....that it won't run on a 3 year old G4 laptop. Check your dates. G4's were sold into 2006.
Waethorn
on Jan 6, 2009
LOL at MacBook Wheel: 8GB: ~$2600 40GB: >$9900
Waethorn
on Jan 6, 2009
LOL: "It remains to be seen if the MacBook Wheel will catch on in the business world, where people use computers for actual work, and not just dicking around."
johnpapola
on Jan 6, 2009
@Waethorn, I concur with Lotsa. A powerbook g4, while slow as hell compared to intel kit of it's day, is still very capable of doing the same HD video editing as it did back then. But, yeah, the G4 was horribly slow, which is why I'd been praying for a switch to Intel years before it happened when the Pentium M showed the way forward. @Mike, You may not be a socialist. But your PT Barnum line is elitist and insulting. Obviously it was your intention to be insulting to mac users. You're entitled. Whatever. But don't take umbrage for being called out for it. That's just silly.
lotsamystuff
on Jan 6, 2009
"it won't run on a 3 year old G4 laptop" It won't run on anything, because it hasn't been introduced yet. How many times do I have to explain this to you? Spin it however you want, Wae. My PowerBook was introduced in January of 2003. It has been and continues to be a phenomenal value. In fact, I still have two "Quicksilver 867" Macs that I call into service for basic editing jobs as well, and those date back to July of 2001. They still run Final Cut Pro just fine (albeit slowly compared to the latest version on a modern Mac). They didn't suddenly become inoperative because of later hardware/software updates. I never bothered to upgrade the OS past 10.3.9, but no matter. They're great machines.
lotsamystuff
on Jan 6, 2009
"But your PT Barnum line is elitist and insulting. " Not to mention inaccurate: http://www.historybuff.com/library/refbarnum.html But hey, "mikegalos" never lets the facts get in the way of a smarmy post Ten seconds of research... :-)
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 6, 2009
lotsa Actually, I said the following about Barnum (as actually reading the thread first would have told you): ----------------- "If people pay for a product, then it's fairly priced. " Both P.T. Barnum and S.P. Jobs find people who believe that a real comfort... ----------------------------------- "Cost is objective.Value is subjective." And P.T. Barnum smiles from beyond the grave. ----------------------------------- I'm sure the people watching P.T.Barnum's shows would have strongly defended their purchase as a good "value".
Waethorn
on Jan 6, 2009
"It won't run on anything, because it hasn't been introduced yet. How many times do I have to explain this to you?" ....Windows 7 beta runs on a 3 year old computer. Snow Leopard beta doesn't. Care to argue that?
Avro
on Jan 6, 2009
@ tayme Pizza Box I have looked at the figures and droves of US undergraduates are buying MacBooks . I believe the figures for the Ivy League are 53% of freshmen are showing up with MacBooks and at Yale it has gone from 8% to 62% in just a couple of years. Big student discounts for Macs and sweeteners like an iPod Touch thrown in no doubt help sales. iLife The adverts are "Get a Mac" and iLife comes with every new Mac so my comment is legitimate. The advert was about viruses predates Vista, but FYI between 2002 and 2007 Apple had 38 Major OS releases compared to Windows with 7. Apple patched 815 vulnerabilities while Windows patched 678. Furthermore Apple vulnerabilities tend to be due to new code while Windows ones tend to be exploits that have existed in Windows since perhaps Windows 95 but are just being discovered. As far as support goes the Consumers Association both here in the UK and in the US rates Apple top for service and support as well as customer satisfaction. Quality like that costs. I take your points about Vista. I think it is much better than its reputation deserves but it has a very poor image and Apple did manage to exploit that.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 6, 2009
Lindy "I love how they drop out this list of hardware, most of which will probably be old.....um tomorrow after Apple announcements. " Probably time for you to hang up your Apple Industry Analyst cap. (Well, actually, you did about as well as they did)
DRWAM
on Jan 6, 2009
lotsa, I still use a G4 AGP tower upgraded from 450MHz to 1.25GHz. It works fine and I have full Leopard updated running without a glitch. Before I bought an [Intel] Mac Pro Tower, I used it to make family DVD's. I preferred it over my 3.4 GHz P4 with XP using a few DVD making apps.
Waethorn
on Jan 6, 2009
BTW: It looks like OEM's want Intel to hold off on a Core i7 mobile platform. That spells bad news for an iMac i7.
Waethorn
on Jan 6, 2009
You know, I look at the Core i7. Ok, it's great. It's the new platform and all. It's fast. It rocks your balls off. But I can see the Nehalem architecture turning into the elephant in the room just like Netburst was so few years ago. I would almost bet money that in a couple years time, they'll be looking back on the Atom, and adapting that technology into mainstream processors by adding multiple low-power cores but at an increased scale, just like the late Core microarchitecture, which took technology from the Pentium M (which itself took technology from 2 generations prior - the Pentium 3). Atom will likely turn into the Cell 2.0. :) Funny that.
tayme
on Jan 6, 2009
@mikegalos - To what in Barnum's life were you referring, then? Care to elaborate? --tayme
lotsamystuff
on Jan 6, 2009
It's so interesting to see the company that barely even thinks about Apple (per "mikegalos") putting out stuff like this on the eve of CES. I'm sure MonkeyBoy considers Apple to be an annoying little gnat buzzing around his inflated head, but he sure is spending a lot of time swatting at it
lotsamystuff
on Jan 6, 2009
DRWAM, in the interest of full disclosure, I'll say that (aside from the obvious issues of speed), I almost prefer running the Quicksilver machines. 10.5 is very capable, but still buggy IMHO. Remarkably, on those ancient 867 MHz machines, I can simultaneously edit video, burn a DVD, and have mail, IM and any number of other programs running without a hitch. The first time I imported video while burning a DVD I thought for sure I'd blow the system up, but it ran perfectly. The only other system that I've enjoyed as much was the PowerMac 9500/150 (yes, 150 MHz) that ran an Avid system. That thing was a rock. Hard to believe you could push video through it, but it was an amazing system.
tayme
on Jan 6, 2009
@Avro - The Ivy league is hardly a cross section of the US. It is mostly the rich that send their kids to one of those schools. Try some of the state run universities, and I would guess that the numbers are much lower. I still laugh about the Genius Bar comment though. Those guys are not very good at what they do. Or are they, they always try to sell you something new, rather than fix the problem. Now, as far as sending in something to Apple Support...I have never tried that, so they very well may be top notch. And now it is MS' turn to exploit a truth...Apple computers generally cost more than a Windows based PC. They may as well run with it. It is a true statement. --tayme
Waethorn
on Jan 6, 2009
"I still laugh about the Genius Bar comment though. Those guys are not very good at what they do. Or are they, they always try to sell you something new, rather than fix the problem." And when I already said that, losta and johnpapola didn't believe me. "And now it is MS' turn to exploit a truth...Apple computers generally cost more than a Windows based PC. They may as well run with it. It is a true statement." Ditto there too.
lotsamystuff
on Jan 6, 2009
"And when I already said that, losta and johnpapola didn't believe me." Citation, please? I don't remember responding to a comment like that; I did, however, laugh at your pathetic attempts to troll Apple stores for customers. My experience with Apple support has been generally excellent, unlike my nightmare with DELL, not to mention the local Bargain Basement PC Hut Shops (aka "McWae Shacks"). I've never had to deal with an Apple "Genius", but the sales reps I've met in the stores have run the gamut. Some are merely OK, others are brilliant. Just like everywhere, I suppose. I had always assumed the vetting of the folks behind the "Genius" bar was better, but I could be wrong. Certainly the success of the Apple stores would indicate they're doing something right, despite the anecdotal evidence supplied by PC Vendor "Waethorn".
Waethorn
on Jan 6, 2009
"I don't remember responding to a comment like that; I did, however, laugh at your pathetic attempts to troll Apple stores for customers." What's more pathetic? Me picking up customers from those stores? Or the people that work there? Ask my customers that and see what they have to say.
johnpapola
on Jan 6, 2009
May I just point out that Waethorn has wasted his time bashing the G4 and discussing the compatibility of the as-yet-unreleased Snow Leopard. In addition to be lord of the shills, he's grand master of the strawmen.
Waethorn
on Jan 6, 2009
"May I just point out that Waethorn has wasted his time bashing the G4 and discussing the compatibility of the as-yet-unreleased Snow Leopard." Time. Well. Spent. BTW: Are you going to keep spouting lies in every comment you create on your Intui-type keyboard? I thought you were done with this page after all.

Please or Register to post comments.

IT/Dev Connections

Las Vegas
September 30th - October 4th

Paul ThurottYou'll have the opportunity to experience:
• 120 Technical
Sessions
• Networking with Peers
• Expert Speakers


Come See Paul Thurrott & Mary Jo Foley in Person!

Register Now

Office 365 InfoCenter

Get the latest insight and info from Paul

Read Now!

What I Use