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AppleInsider jumps the shark, declares Zune HD 'failed'

Sep. 16, 2009 Paul Thurrott | Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows

While I wait for what I just know will be hugely positive reviews of the Zune HD from Walter Mossberg and David Pogue (after all, these guys treat Apple product launches like just-discovered new books of the Bible), I can at least point to some of the crazy silliness coming out of the Apple fan base. AppleInsider--which, by the way, I actually like quite a bit normally since they're not usually this partisan--has written an absolutely insane and uncalled-for anti-Zune HD article. I've gotten a lot of email about it, and while I'd like to just ignore it, I am afraid that people will assume it's all true. What they're presenting are five myths of the Zune HD. Actually, it's four non-myths and one completely made up issue, but whatever. Let's waste just a little bit of time on this stupidity. (And you have to think that if Apple had adopted any of the stuff they're complaining about, AppleInsider would have been tripping all over itself congratulating the company.)

Myth 1: OLED is a great display technology for mobile devices

Not a myth. The OLED display on the Zune HD blows away the screen on any iPod or iPhone, sorry. Looked at side by side, inside or out, there is no comparison. This is especially true if you view the screen off-center. The OLED screen looks good at all angles. With the iPod touch, you find yourself fidgeting with it to get the screen to look better. (You can't tilt the Zune HD away from you enough to make it look bad. With the iPod touch, it's only OK when perfectly on center, and even then it's not nearly as good as the Zune HD.)

And while these shots don't do the real-world differences proud, they're at least representative.

Put simple, OLED isn't just "great" display technology for mobile devices. It's the superior technology, period.

Myth 2: NVIDIA's Tegra processor leapfrogs existing mobile processors

Again, not a myth. Both devices utilize an ARM processor at the core, but the NVIDIA design builds off of that with supporting chipsets for storage and video that improve performance and battery life. It can drive HD displays up to 1280 x 1050, unlike the iPod touch. But the real proof is in the using. And unlike AppleInsider, I've used the new iPod touch and Zune HD side-by-side. Zune HD performance is excellent, sorry. The iPod touch is no slouch. But to call these two devices anything but competitive is disingenuous.

Myth 3: Zune HD is mobile HD

No one claimed Zune HD was "mobile HD." The Zune HD supports HD output at 720p and includes an HD radio receiver, and Microsoft is very clear about that. The iPod touch does neither, with a dock or otherwise. Neither does any other portable Apple device.

Myth 4: Zune HD delivers high definition radio

Not a myth. I was just using this feature a few minutes ago. It does indeed deliver HD radio. And as AppleInsider notes, "Analog radio isn't going away." Good thing Microsoft realizes this. Because the Zune HD includes a standard FM radio tuner too. Unlike the iPod touch. And like every other Zune before it.

Myth 5: Zune HD games and software will wow you

This is the one actual myth, but it's also one of AppleInsider's creation, as no one ever claimed that. What Microsoft is doing is providing a number of small applications and games to Zune HD customers, for free, as a benefit of buying into their platform. Over time, they can and will open up the so-called Zune apps store to outside developers. (Witness yesterday's release of the Zune HD-compatible developer tools.) But this is just the first step in what is essentially a new platform. And remember that the Zune is really about entertainment, pure and simple. The Zune HD delivers on its core functionality quite nicely. No one questions that Apple has created a tremendous Apps platform, exclusionary as it may be.

Despite the hype, the Zune HD appears to have failed before even hitting the market.

Sure. And despite the hype, AppleInsider has absolutely failed to give the Zune HD a fair chance. We get it, Apple doesn't make it, so it must suck. But we also get that if Apple had released this product, it would have gotten a hugely favorable review. From you. From the Wall Street Journal. And from the New York Times. But thanks for trying.

There are a number of other inaccuracies in this poorly researched blog post around "Microsoft's standard operating procedure" (actually, Apple's, as it turns out), and the supposedly poor quality of mobile IE on the Zune. (Surprise! It's shockingly good.) But what can you expect from someone who wrote a post about a product that a) competes with the company they love, and b) they've never even seen let alone used?

I'm calling BS on this one, sorry.

Discuss this Article 111

gorath
on Sep 16, 2009
I'm pretty sure you misunderstand the meaning of "jump the shark" It's a term for when people are basically on their way out, and are desperately grasping at straws to try and stay in the game.
planetarian
on Sep 16, 2009
i think he means 'jumps the gun'. unless he seriously thinks this is a desparate straw-grab from a dying entity. but that's not the impression i get.
panache1023
on Sep 16, 2009
Bravo Paul! This is the kind of post I continue to come here to see! You stated your opinion and backed it up with facts without being rude! You need to make one correction though...this sentence doesn't make sense. "Because the iPod touch includes a standard FM radio tuner too. Unlike the iPod touch. And like every other Zune before it" I don't understand what you are trying to say, but it definitely looks like there is some kind of typo there. Keep making posts like this one please!
richardfrisch
on Sep 16, 2009
"HD radio" does NOT stand for high-definition. It stands for "hybrid digital". Check it out at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Radio
nim55
on Sep 16, 2009
I dunno, Paul, whether you agree with them or not, it appears that AppleInsider at least put a bit of thought and research into their critique of the Zune - which is more than I can say for your article. As for the display quality, I notice that even though my iPod Touch screen is not blindingly bright, I can see it fine even in bright sunlight. Apparently this is because the LCD display is "transflective", meaning that in addition to relying on backlighting it also makes use of ambient light reflecting from the display. OLED displays, on the other hand, rely 100% on OLED generated light - no use is made of ambient light. This raises the question of whether Zune's OLED looks as good as iPod's LCD display in bright sunlight.
cesjr
on Sep 16, 2009
This is a response? Please, Paul. Appleinsider's main criticism of the OLED screen was it's poor performance in sunlight and power consumption. You don't even address these things. Go read the Ars Technica review. They acknowledge the terrible performance in sunlight. On Tegra, again, you don't engage the core point by Appleinsider - the Tegra is running old generation CPU hardware - " Tegra uses a conventional ARM11 family CPU core (ARMv6), the same generation CPU core used by the original iPhone, the Zune, Nokia N95, and the HTC Hero. The Tegra's CPU/GPU package also uses DDR1 memory, introducing significant real world RAM bandwidth limits no matter how powerful the embedded GPU core is rated to be in theoretical terms." On a Quake benchmark done by Nvidia, the Zune Tegra piece was slower - " NVIDIA's own demonstrations of Tegra's ARM11/integrated graphics show it achieving 35 fps in Quake III. The same software running on Pandora's Coretex-A8 with SGX GPU core achieves 40-60 fps. " As to the HD moniker - Appleinsider's main point is that it's basically deceptive. Many ordinary people might think the thing is running HD video on the device. That's a valid point, although most ordinary people probably won't buy a zune HD anyways, they go with the market leading product (iPod) assuming the market knows more than they do. As for apps, sure nobody in their right mind would claim the Zune compares to the iPod touch, but the lack of apps needs to be mentioned in any comparison. Frankly, unless you hate apple or are a music subscription fan, I can't think of any reason to get a zune HD given the utter lack of apps for the zune.
chipwinter
on Sep 16, 2009
It's a shame that AllThingsD is featuring this same author on their front page.
beaker
on Sep 16, 2009
For real - how much of an impact does anyone really think the Zune is going to have? I personally cannot see it gaining any ground. Practically everyone has an iPod which means they are already somewhat experienced with the "dreaded" iTunes. They've already purchased their media via iTunes as well as ripped all of their CDs to use in their iPod. Microsoft really needs to have something that is WAY better - apps, music store, etc. for someone to even take notice. Let's see where they are in 6 months with this. I bet not much further than where they currently are. I hope I'm wrong as competition is something we NEED in this environment but I just don't see this product doing anything to Apple's marketshare. Regardless of the Windows FAN BOYs or Apple FAN Boys opinions.
EricoF3
on Sep 16, 2009
This is why I always complaint about Apple *Fans* ... They always do this kind of shit ... Nice article Paul ... I Aprouve all what you say about AppleInsider Blog ... When Apple *Fans* feel the need to destroy somthing before it it the market this is because Apple *Fans* are really scared ... So The Zune HD is a killer device and it is much more interesting than the iTouch... GFY Apple
modyvishal
on Sep 16, 2009
@gorath: Paul is obviously disturbed by the AppleInsider post, and because of this he has made a couple of mistakes in the article. I think instead of going over the article with a fine tooth comb to find small mistakes, you should try to understand the context of what's being said. The Zune HD is a fantastic device and credit should be given where it is due... whether it is Microsoft, Apple or whatever. And I just don't get how people can compare iPod Touch and Zune HD by the number of apps they are currently running. Zune HD was released yesterday and the iPod Touch has been around for quite a while. No device has millions of apps to start off with; it takes time for developers to realize the potential of the device and develop apps. So to all you Apple fanboys: I know you're all very emotionally charged to blast the Zune HD, but give it some time and let's actually see how it does, then pass judgements. If the others were like you, they'd all have been laughing at you while you celebrated the shiny, new, totally out-of-this-world copy/paste functionality of the iPod/iPhone not too long ago.
Waethorn
on Sep 16, 2009
@Paul: You should do a website rendering comparison between IE6 on the desktop on IE6 Mobile. They are not the same, as Microsoft has even stated, but nobody seems to understand that. ""HD radio" does NOT stand for high-definition. It stands for "hybrid digital"." In this case, it doesn't really matter. Everyday consumers understand that "HD" means better quality, which is what the Zune provides, while still providing backwards compatibility. The iPhone/iPod touch doesn't do that.
gfryesc1
on Sep 16, 2009
Guess who wins the award for jumping the shark? You, Thurrott, for your chronic overuse of the phrase 'jumps the shark'. Get some new material, blowhard.
chuckb84
on Sep 16, 2009
Okay, let's go through it: 1. Myth 1 about the display. We need some time for side-by-side comparisons, including battery life and how these things work with movies. Can't tell yet, although the photos make the Zune look impressive. We have to see about this, however, "Sony and Microsoft try to compensate by giving their OLED devices a dark, mostly black user interface. Unless you will exclusively be using your Zune HD to watch gothic movies in the dark, the screen will be gobbling up more power than an LCD. This is particularly the case if you want to browse the web, which involves a lot of white space. Showing a white background, OLED consumes as much as 300% of the power of an LCD. Any colors that rely upon those those fragile blue pixels are particularly power inefficient. " And I wonder about this, "If you're wondering why Apple, which sells tens of millions of mobile devices per year and has a component appetite that literally sways RAM markets, didn't beat Microsoft, a company that barely sold a couple million Zunes in two years, to the OLED trough, it's not because Microsoft is on the cutting edge, but because Microsoft is desperately looking for a marketable feature, whether or not that feature makes any sense for consumers." It's possible that Microsoft is making a bug into a feature. Since Zune sales are so small :), they may be able to put OLED on the Zune before Apple can get the parts in sufficient quantity for the iPod. Ironic, if true. 2. Myth 2. The telling point is, "Even if the Tegra did supply multiple CPU cores, the Windows CE kernel used by the Zune HD doesn't support multi-core SMP so it couldn't make any use of them." But, we need benchmarks, something like Quake on both devices? 3. Myth 3. Apple Insider is basically right on this one. The Zune ---outputs----HD but doesn't show HD. The name is misleading. Furthermore, it will only hold 2-3 HD movies, so carrying HD movies around on this thing doesn't make much sense to me, and it only holds those 2-3 if you use if for nothing else. 4. Myth 4, HD radio. A.I. is right on this one. "HD" radio isn't "high definition". Note that Paul carefully skirts this, as Microsoft does, "Not a myth. I was just using this feature a few minutes ago. It does indeed deliver HD radio" He does NOT say "high definition" radio, because that would be false. It does deliver "HD" radio, but it doesn't mean what Microsoft wants everyone to assume it means. Go look on wikipedia for what HD radio is and isn't. I think HD radio is essentially irrelevant, but just my opinion. I also think the FM radio in the Nano is irrelevant. Pandora radio is what matters these days. 5. Myth 5. This is an unknown. "Zune HD games and software will wow you". Maybe. And, "The Dow Jones will go to 30,000". That's not false either, but what about NOW? The Zune does not "wow" with 9----count 'em, 9-----apps. Perhaps it will wow us later, but certainly not now. Even with Paul's misapplication of the phrase, Apple Insider has not "jumped the shark". They posted a critical commentary on the Zune HD, which is exactly what Paul claims he does when he says that the current, best-selling, industry dominating, Microsoft clobbering iPods are "the most addled yet", "sort of a mess", etc. So far, based on limited information, the screen looks pretty, but the device is misnamed. It stores and outputs HD, but can barely hold any HD content and the HD radio isn't HD in the sense that Microsoft clearly wants people to think that it is. It's certainly the "least bad" Zune, but what will this add up to in the marketplace?
wildscribe
on Sep 16, 2009
Thank you for setting the record straight Paul. I am also waiting to see what Mossberg and Pogue have to say about the new Zune. Since I read your review, I am seriously thinking about selling my iPod 80GB classic and iPod Nano 16GB on eBay and getting the new Zune HD. I also checked out Apple Insider for the first time and noticed that they had a "photo exclusive" of the opening of the new Apple store in Greenwich, CT. As I recall, you broke the story about Apple's plans to open a store in Dedham, MA on your podcast. Maybe you can get a couple snapshots of this new Apple store and put them on your blog and have a photo exclusive just like Apple Insider. How about it Paul?
nim55
on Sep 16, 2009
Paul's pictures are very poor. It looks low-res and the highlights are blown out (e.g., the sliding arrow key on the iPod is saturated.). Paul, what did you do? Take take these pictures with a camera phone? Get some decent SLR pictures next time.
SandmanX82
on Sep 16, 2009
@chuckb84 "It does deliver "HD" radio, but it doesn't mean what Microsoft wants everyone to assume it means" What??? Microsoft didn't come up with the name HD radio. "HD Radio is the trademark for iBiquity's in-band on-channel (IBOC) technology, which was selected by the FCC in 2002 as a digital audio broadcasting method for the United States." (complements of Wikipedia). Why would Microsoft call HD Radio by a name other than what it is? It's called the Zune HD...not Zune High Definition Radio. And regardless of whether people think it stands for "High Definition" or know the correct moniker of "Hybrid Digital", it doesn't change what HD radio actually is, which is what Microsoft put in the device. I don't see where you're going with this point.
chipwinter
on Sep 16, 2009
I thought Mossberg and Pogue were considered meritless around here because of their pro-Apple bias. So, which is it: a) They're so biased that when they like a Microsoft product, you know the Microsoft product must be really good b) When they like Microsoft products, their reviews are worthwhile, but when they like Apple products, they're biased? Or are there other ways to read this?
shark47
on Sep 16, 2009
Myth 6: Reviewers will treat the device fairly despite it lacking an Apple logo. Expect most reviewers to focus on the negative aspects of the device, i.e., the app store, iTunes compatibility, accessories, etc.
Logjamming
on Sep 16, 2009
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/techtonicshifts/archive/2009/09/15/envy-t... "The laptop HP announced today, the appropriately named Envy, is as brazen a case of design thievery as it gets, aping the look and feel of Apple's MacBook in every conceivable way. If I worked at HP, I would be ashamed to walk in the door today. " Some goes for Windows 7, which is a blatant copy of OSX and clearly a 'you gotta succeed some time' attempt by Microsoft, after trying similar things for the past 15-20 years (Netscape? Lotus?): it's a good thing, a very good thing, this no-good software company with engineers who do not know 1 bit about engineering, designers who do not know 1 pixel of design aesthetics, and marketeers that do not know shit about branding. This touchscreen thing with HD in its name, that isn't even HD, comes with no software installed, comes with no Appstore (who cares about the 7 apps), is just another failure in a long line of failures by a company that shoves software down your throat by making vendor lock-in deal through ignorant nitwits as their skeemers, most of whom you'll find on this MS sponsor site. Another failure. Clearly another failure. There's a reason why it's not released in Europe.
crankenstein
on Sep 16, 2009
The 'AppleInsider' is a joke... I was already banned once for not aggreeing 100% that Apple products are actually a gift from God himself. Anything posted by them has to be taken with a grain of salt ;)
chuckb84
on Sep 16, 2009
UI video is here: http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/09/16/zune-hds-ui-the-full-tour/ It's pretty. I don't know how good it is to use, but it makes a good demo, and will probably sell some Zunes in Best Buy.
machias
on Sep 16, 2009
I was a little cranky to find out that my local Best Buy didn't even bother to put the Zune HD display up at the store. All they had was a couple of "pre-registration" cards that had expired on 9/14. When I asked a customer service person where the new Zune HD was they said they had two of them in the back, one 32GB and one 16GB. They figured no one would want them so they didn't even put them on the floor. Personally, I think that's just wrong. So while the Apple boys are jumping up and down about how awful the Zune HD is (and I don't agree with that assessment, despite my wide selection of Macs and various Apple products in my house), I would just like the opportunity to get my hands on one of these devices so I can find out for myself. I have messed around with the Zune 4.0 software and I love it, I just want to sync something to it.
Dipsh t Admin
on Sep 16, 2009
What are "skeemers"? "comes with no Appstore" And I assume Jobs just waved a magic wand and thousands of apps just appeared out of thin air? The thing was just released *yesterday*. How many apps should there be? "this no-good software company with engineers who do not know 1 bit about engineering, designers who do not know 1 pixel of design aesthetics" Who are you talking about, the iTunes software developers?
gavers
on Sep 16, 2009
@cesjr: "I can't think of any reason to get a zune HD given the utter lack of apps for the zune." Because not everyone cares about apps which is evidenced by the fact that the iPod touch is not the top selling iPod. @nim55: "the sliding arrow key on the iPod is saturated" that's a joke, right? That's what an iPod Touch, when viewed at an angle, looks like. That was the point of the photo.
EricoF3
on Sep 16, 2009
Logjamming said: Some goes for Windows 7, which is a blatant copy of OSX..." OSX IS NOT A OS!!!!! IT IS A GUI SHELL!!!!! The Kernel of Windows is certainly not a copy of Unix Kernel, Which is the Kernel under the OSX Gui shell... THe only thing we can say is, Yes Apple recycle good Gui Ideas from Microsoft... And Microsoft recycle good Gui ideas from Microsoft.... BUT STOP TELLING WINDOWS IS A COPY OF OSX BECAUSE OSX IS NOT AN OS AT ITSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EricoF3
on Sep 16, 2009
Logjamming said: Some goes for Windows 7, which is a blatant copy of OSX..." OSX IS NOT A OS!!!!! IT IS A GUI SHELL!!!!! The Kernel of Windows is certainly not a copy of Unix Kernel, Which is the Kernel under the OSX Gui shell... THe only thing we can say is, Yes Apple recycle good Gui Ideas from Microsoft... And Microsoft recycle good Gui ideas from Apple.... BUT STOP TELLING WINDOWS IS A COPY OF OSX BECAUSE OSX IS NOT AN OS AT ITSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ocean
on Sep 16, 2009
We'll decide whether it's failed by next march. Has MS released a goal for sales for the device?
EricoF3
on Sep 16, 2009
EricoF3 said: "OSX IS NOT A OS!!!!! IT IS A GUI SHELL!!!!!" A Gui Shell like Ubuntu, Gnome, KDE and so on...
chuckb84
on Sep 16, 2009
"Has MS released a goal for sales for the device?" To get more than 1.1% marketshare. It will be interesting to see how they decide to define the "market" to maximize the claims they can make. Much like Ballmer's hilarious claim that the original Zune got 25% of the "high end market" for mp3 players. Somehow that turned into 1.1% of the market as everyone else defines it.
AlasdairM
on Sep 16, 2009
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/09/zune-hd-apps-are-here-comp... Ouch.
Waethorn
on Sep 16, 2009
Re (again): Quake 3 The Quake 3 Arena video done on the Tegra has full graphics options turned on with a simple recompile of the stock source code. AA and AF are also enabled. It's also a dev unit, not the Zune HD, and the source code was unoptimized. On the iPhone, Q3A has been heavily optimized for the platform, AA and AF are off, and texture filtering is much worse (I saw it on a clients system - it's obviously bilinear filtered, which even a 3Dfx Voodoo 1 could beat with trilinear filtering). Ask any qualified reviewer if those review stats are fair between platforms. After you pick yourself off the floor from being summarily smacked down, maybe you should wait until games actually start flowing out for the Zune, and check the games rendering engine for which options are specified (all the Quake games have an in-game console which will tell you which graphics engine rendering features are enabled). BTW: Gran Turismo on PSP is cranking out 60fps, and the graphics look awesome, although, they are not as good as what the Tegra can do, even though the tps rate is higher than what the iPhone 3GS can do.
gfryesc1
on Sep 16, 2009
Erico, been drinking today?
nim55
on Sep 16, 2009
gavers: "@nim55: the sliding arrow key on the iPod is saturated" that's a joke, right? That's what an iPod Touch, when viewed at an angle, looks like. That was the point of the photo." No, gavers, I meant the bottom picture which shows both devices from face-on, not at an angle. Believe me, as an avid photographer I know what a saturated region looks like. These pictures were not taken with a quality SLR.
rr0de74@live.com
on Sep 16, 2009
Paul myth 1 in your article. Please unlock the iTouch, go to photos and zoom in to the same range as the photo on the Zune, so you can get rid of the white area on the right in the iTouch picture making it look less washed out. Also if you zoom in the detail will show better. Otherwise that comparison is crap. Not that I would think that you would give it a fair shot. Seriously Apple insider said that OLED had a great image. Their points were....washed out in sunlight, power requirements, and life of the screen. These are not Zune issues they are any OLED issue, and Appleinsider said as much about the Sony Walkman as well. I pretty much stopped there when your FUD got so deep.
Waethorn
on Sep 16, 2009
"These pictures were not taken with a quality SLR." Taken with a Canon PowerShot SX200 IS
Logjamming
on Sep 16, 2009
Enrico, thats three times the same message: I'm guessing your browser (IE, no doubt) during the first attempt, your OS (Windows, no doubt) during the second that got you so outraged you didn't border to finish the third: crappy software is a bitch, isn't it? Especially if it's a scandalous copy. Oh, the frustration of Microsoft products.....
rr0de74@live.com
on Sep 16, 2009
"Expect most reviewers to focus on the negative aspects of the device, i.e., the app store, iTunes compatibility, accessories, etc." Depends on how you look at it. This is a saturated market, its also a slipping market. Its also a rapidly changing market. I think next year Apple will have a Nano 16gig and iTouches. The shuffle will be gone, and the classic will be replaced by a 128gig iTouch. Zune has done the same thing. Both MS and Apple are saying to the world, its not about just playing music anymore. Its about, all media and applications. When you look at that way then anything new coming out is going to be compared to what we have now and why should we switch. If Google made a similar device it would be compared to the iTouch. If reviewing any device you would be looking for features that are first new and second if they are new would anyone want them. MS should have held off. As a consumer what do I see from Zune. There is only one device now. Its only sold in the US, and the app store does not exist. Apps are coming for it, maybe, or maybe for Windows Mobile? So what do I get, a media player with a bright screen.
rr0de74@live.com
on Sep 16, 2009
@Chuck "Furthermore, it will only hold 2-3 HD movies, so carrying HD movies around on this thing doesn't make much sense to me, and it only holds those 2-3 if you use if for nothing else." 2-3? Maybe 1 on the 32gig. A 2 hour HD movie ripped from a BD is between 25-30gig. I am going to assume that the 2-3 come off of the Zune store, and those would be highly compressed semi-HD, 720p-ish. When the Zune HD 128gig ships you will be able to hold 5 movies, and nothing else.
yoshipod
on Sep 16, 2009
How about the Myths that Paul lists on his comparison page between the Zune HD and the iPod touch. The iPod touch is $299/$399 NOT $300/$400. Listing it that way is a deliberate misrepresentation in order to make the Zune HD seem like a much better value, when it really is not. There is no way to mistake the number $299 for $300 or $399 for $400. No where on any Apple website or advertisement does it EVER say $300/$400. This is simply a ploy to make it seem like the iPod touch is more expensive than it is. Sure its only $1, but to the eye, at first glance, that 3/4 jumps out when next to the 2/2. Then there is his nonsense about not listing the specs of the 8GB iPod touch. Who cares if its the low end. That's the whole point. Its the only touch screen Zune or iPod under $200. But for some reason, Paul chooses not to list it. Why is that? He gives some silly reason that since Microsoft no longer sells the old model Zune, he can't list the 8GB iPod touch. Those old Zune models are DISCONTINUED. The 8GB iPod Touch is a currently shipping product and will be for some time. There is NO reason to leave it out. Just an attempt to misrepresent the facts and create more myths. Maybe the Zune pricing does not look so good when compared the iPod Touch. $220 - 16 GB $300 - 32 GB $290 - 32 GB $400 - 64 GB Should really be $220 - 16 GB $199 - 8 GB $290 - 32 GB $299 - 32 GB $399 - 64 GB Paul loves to compare low end PC hardware, that comes with incomplete feature sets, to Apple Hardware. Then he claims Apple is more expensive, and rants about the "Apple tax". Now that Apple has decided to make a lower priced iPod Touch to hit that affordable price point, suddenly its not appropriate to compare that with the new Zune that starts at a higher price point. Typical.
EricoF3
on Sep 16, 2009
gfryesc1 said: "Erico, been drinking today?" What? Why did you ask that? I never drink!!
panache1023
on Sep 16, 2009
rr0de74, But at least when you watch that HD movie on the screen, there will be less pixels "wasted" on letter boxing... Never mind the other uses for the device where those "extra 48 rows of pixels" may come in handy. Remember.. "MS got it right!"
Waethorn
on Sep 16, 2009
@DRWAM: You should send Logjam a copy of that video I sent you. "As a consumer what do I see from Zune. There is only one device now." Wrong. Existing Zunes will be on sale for a while. http://www.zune.net/en-us/products/mp3players/default.htm " Apps are coming for it, maybe, or maybe for Windows Mobile?" LOL! Apps have been available for Windows Mobile even before it was "Windows Mobile". "So what do I get, a media player with a bright screen." And a good source of online content (if you live the US - the only place you can buy it anyway), HD Radio, HD video-out support via HDMI, a good UI, and superior PC software to anything that's available on the market.
chuckb84
on Sep 16, 2009
Oh, man, Microsoft must have a death wish for this thing. ADS on the "free" apps? When you only have 9 apps, this is just stupid. Paul, if you love Microsoft----and we know you do----call them up and tell them to re-release the apps without the ads. What a blunder. I bet the iPod commercial about the ads in the Microsoft apps is already in production. How many free apps for the iTouch are there that can be compared with Microsoft's free apps with advertisements? I could write that commercial myself... The other notable lacks: No camera, No GPS, No Bluetooth and "Can it stream Internet radio? There's no app to do so yet, and we were unable to play audio through Pandora, NPR, or other Web outlets in the browser." "Does it run Flash? No." Huh. Apple got quite a beating over that. Apparently, it wasn't some dark Apple conspiracy or blunder. As rr0de74 noted above, "This is a saturated market, its also a slipping market. Its also a rapidly changing market." Yah. Paul predicted several years ago (correctly for once) that the iPod, and the whole mp3 player market, would be subsumed into the cell phone market and the gadgets would merge into one thing. Of course, what he did not anticipate is that Apple would produce the convergence device that defines this new market. Unless it turns into a phone, the Zune is a niche player in a dwindling market competing against an entrenched incumbent.
Waethorn
on Sep 16, 2009
"2-3? Maybe 1 on the 32gig. A 2 hour HD movie ripped from a BD is between 25-30gig. I am going to assume that the 2-3 come off of the Zune store, and those would be highly compressed semi-HD, 720p-ish." You know absolutely nothing about video compression technology. "Never mind the other uses for the device where those "extra 48 rows of pixels" may come in handy." I'd thankfully drop the extra rows of pixels so that my 720p video scales properly on my device. Oh, but that's right - the iPod touch can't play 720p video....
Waethorn
on Sep 16, 2009
"Of course, what he did not anticipate is that Apple would produce the convergence device that defines this new market." The Jack of all trades is a master of none too.
GoodThings2Life
on Sep 16, 2009
First of all, Paul, great article and well done on the perfectly factual summary, despite what the Apple folks are claiming in the comments. Amazing how ignorant and misleading the Apple folks are... and not surprisingly, how childish they are about their response to proving them wrong. Myth 1 -- OLED by its very design uses less energy for brighter/clear pictures than its LCD and LED counterparts. This is why TV manufacturers are beginning to use it and are successfully claiming that their TV's are more eco/green-friendly while still providing "sharper blacks, whiter whites, and bolder colors." Myth 2 -- Tegra is not only a powerhouse CPU/GPU/Northbridge/Southbridge chipset, it consumes a lot less energy than its competitors (at least in design), which explains the lower power battery and yet still out-powering the iPod. Go figure. Myth 3 -- The new Zune HD display is still a valid 16:9 ratio, which to me suggests that although it doesn't output at 720p on the tiny screen, it's still a properly proportioned HD screen which means that the detail will still mostly be there, even though nobody is claiming that technicality but me. Microsoft has been 100% clear on this point which leads me to the follow-up Myth 4... Myth 4 -- People are really nitpicking this, but it doesn't change the fact that hybrid digital still provides high-quality digital (let's call this HD to confuse everyone, lol) radio, FM radio, AND AM radio. Yes. All of them. So you can criticize and play word trickery all you want, but the fact is that it's HD anyway you want. AS if that's not enough, Microsoft hasn't mislead or confused anyone about this. It's in ALL of their marketing. It's only confusing to people who can't read and/or can't comprehend what they read. Myth 5 -- Microsoft hasn't positioned the device to be a full-featured apps platform. Yet. In the future? Maybe. But not yet. If you think that Microsoft is trying to go head-to-head with Apple right now, you're just fooling yourself. Microsoft doesn't play the game that way. Microsoft inches in feature by feature, bit by bit and steals away your market little by little until one day it's gone and you're left crying about them being anti-competitive. Even Gizmodo--- Apple Fanboys Extraordinaire--- were praising the Zune's display and web browser today. Time to suck it up and admit that while it may not swoop in and eat the hole Apple at once, it might actually make people pay attention... especially since so many of you are bitter over your precious camera.
Balthazar9
on Sep 16, 2009
Waethorn, To clarify your mischaracterization from the Chrome thread: I do relize your point of view is coming from proprietary software where things are closed BUT Google’s Chrome Browser is in fact an OPEN SOURCE application. Meaning you, yes you --> can download the actual source code and make any modification to Chrome for your personal needs. A cursed idea to M$ or Apple. Although, apple does contribute to the open source community. Hope that clears up some of your ignorance.
GoodThings2Life
on Sep 16, 2009
I should clarify ... I'm not 100% certain whether the new HD radio chipset enables AM radio or not. I simply know that the chipset used is capable of doing so.
roteague
on Sep 16, 2009
2. Myth 2. The telling point is, "Even if the Tegra did supply multiple CPU cores, the Windows CE kernel used by the Zune HD doesn't support multi-core SMP so it couldn't make any use of them." The Windows CE Kernal was last updated in 2006 (version 6.0) to include such things as multi-core support, and works on multiple processors (including x86, ARM, SH4, and MIPS). Frankly, the whole comment is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. VERY few applications require this multi-core or even multi-threading capabilities. Of course, the Zune uses the XNA library, like the XBox. That is a pretty powerful graphics library. FWIW, Zune programming has been possible for sometime now, the 3.1 release of the XNA studio really basically adds support for the HD specific stuff: like Touch and Accelaromter APIs. What is clear is that the Apple fans see the Zune HD as a threat. I'm not sure why, the Zune isn't going to change the sales equation anytime soon. ... Unless, you are one of those people who need to feel superior to others because of your personal choices....
Backup77
on Sep 16, 2009
Nice comeback Paul. Lets give the Zune HD its due and a chance to prove itself. Time will tell.

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