Can Microsoft do what it's never done before: Make a new Windows version run better on old/low-end hardware than its predecessor?

I broached this topic in a previous blog post, but Saul Hansell at the NYT Bits Blog examines Microsoft's efforts to de-bloat Windows 7 so it runs well on netbook computers. You know, unlike Vista.

The biggest question facing Windows 7 is whether Microsoft can really think small.

When designing Windows Vista, Microsoft put a lot of effort into taking advantage of sophisticated computer hardware, with fancy graphics on the surface and lots of new processing tricks inside. Microsoft says this positioned the operating system for the future, despite the complaining of many users who grumble that Vista has bogged down their computers with unneeded frills and incompatibilities.

While there is some more high-powered glitz coming in Windows 7, the real challenge for Microsoft isn’t the latest multicore superchip, but making the operating system work well, and affordably, on stripped-down PCs, netbooks and other small devices.

He comes to some interesting conclusions after talking to people at CES. These include:

Linux has not caught on for consumer PCs ... the vast majority of buyers have chosen to spend $30 to $50 more to get Windows on inexpensive netbooks.

Agreed, though as previously discussed, I'm curious about the future of Linux now in ways I haven't been for some time.

The early signs are that Windows 7 can run better on smaller computers than Windows Vista. Indeed, the company has been boasting about how little memory the operating system uses.

This is most likely true, though as I noted previously, Windows 7 is not "magic," i.e. it won't make an obsolete computer suddenly viable again. What Windows 7 does do is run better on low-end modern computers using the Intel Atom processor.

Microsoft will cut prices somewhat for Windows on small computers

I have no info about this one, but Hansell points out that Microsoft charges less for Windows on netbooks and makes up for it in volume. So much for Apple's theory about there being no money to be made in that market.

Microsoft has lost its way in consumer electronics

That's a nice bit of speculation. But it's wrong. And here's why: Microsoft has never found its way in consumer electronics, ever. In fact, every single consumer electronics product that Microsoft has made has lost money. Think about it. Even the Xbox 360, which the software giant touts as some kind of success, will never, ever make up the billions of R&D it plowed through. And that's their most successful CE product. Microsoft has never been a force in CE. So they can't have lost their way. They've just simply never made it work.

The list of Microsoft consumer stinkbombs is a mile high. Media Center. MediaRoom. UltimateTV. WebTV. PlaysForSure/Windows Media DRM. Zune. That Outlook-compatible phone from years back. Any product with the words "Microsoft" and "Home" in them. The Teddy Ruxbin bear thing. (And you thought I'd forgotten.) Don't get me wrong: Many of these are good, even great products. But if it's just me and 17 other people using them, what's the point?

There's a side discussion here to be had about Apple's more successful approach with CE, and Microsoft's supposed softening towards Apple. I'd just note that market forces have aligned to erase some of the issues that dogged cross platform compatibility before, especially around digital music. A year ago, most iTunes-purchased music was both junk (128K AAC) and incompatible (FairPlay DRM encoded). Today, virtually all (and soon, all) iTunes-purchased music will be of incredibly high quality (256K AAC) and very compatible with the current (Xbox 360, Zune) and coming generation (Windows 7 Windows Media Player and Media Center) Microsoft products. The world is changing and maybe taking a Windows Live-type approach--where Microsoft simply works with the competition--is the way to go.

Just a thought. And I wasn't even at CES.

Discuss this Article 98

mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
Ocean Their point was: "There's simply no way to stick an Air into your pocket " and I addressed that as moot both in my posting and in several followups. As I said, in short: Cimmaron by Cadillac - a GM econobox at a Cadillac price Mac Book Air by Apple - a netbook at an Apple price But, as I also said, the Cimmaron disaster shocked Cadillac out of brand management and back into engineering so perhaps the Mac Book Air will do the same for Apple.
shark47
on Jan 14, 2009
mike, all of Apple's products have the same logo and use the same design principles. It's not the same with Microsoft, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's not like Lexuses and Scions have the Toyota logo. Same with VW, Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley, Skoda, etc., which are all owned by VW.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
Shark Actually, Microsoft's products use the same design principles and themes, note the logo color schemes, choices of fonts, etc. Again, you don't buy an ApplePod or an Apple Book Pro or an ApplePhone. You can, however, buy an Apple TV. How's that going? Still, it makes sense that Apple plays down the Apple brand on their consumer electronics since most of them are sold for use with Windows PCs.
Avro
on Jan 14, 2009
@Mike You need an update. The Pay As You Go 3G iPhone is available in the UK for (8GB) £342.50 ($500) and that includes all taxes and 12 months unlimited Wi-Fi access or (16GB) £391.45 ($571) and that includes all taxes and 12 months unlimited Wi-Fi access http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/paygo
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
Avro Since DRWAM lives in New Jersey (and not in the Jersey Crown Colony) I answered for the US market where we have VERY different pricing models for cell phone service than just about anywhere else on the planet.
Avro
on Jan 14, 2009
@Mike No problem, just an FYI. No offence intended. FWIW I prefer my Nokia as a phone and my 2G iPod Touch as a PDA.
Ocean
on Jan 14, 2009
>>And aren't Apple people supposed to be the hip, creative professionals who don't wear suits? << I've noticed that when Paul criticizes Microsoft, Mike does everything in his power to change the topic in-thread...
Waethorn
on Jan 14, 2009
"Same with VW, Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley, Skoda, etc., which are all owned by VW." They are different subsidiaries. Best Buy owns Future Shop, but they haven't rebranded all of the Future Shop stores because they cater to a different crowd (male 18-34 for Future Shop vs. non-gender/age-specific for Best Buy). Apple just wants to brand everything the same. If they actually wanted to gain market share for their business systems (Mac Pro, OS X Server), they'd spin off that into another division. People associate Apple with consumer systems though, so nobody takes them seriously as a business platform (not even themselves).
Waethorn
on Jan 14, 2009
"that includes all taxes and 12 months unlimited Wi-Fi access" I dunno why anyone in their right mind would pay for Wi-Fi access with as many free and insecure hotspots as there are.
Waethorn
on Jan 14, 2009
Hmm.... According to the Encarta definition, I would bet that an Apple iNetbook would be pricelessly priceless.
DRWAM
on Jan 14, 2009
Thanks Mike. You're starting to know me like a book. I would get some angst thinking that I made a mistake. So I owe you a beer...another one, that is. She definitely would not use the data plan, and would not want to waste the money on it. Doc
whiplash55
on Jan 14, 2009
Well actually, the HP 2133 running a Via processor at 1.2 ghz runs Vista okay. Not great but acceptably. If I get a netbook I have a spare Vista license and trimmed down version I made with vlite, I think it would be fine, I'm guessing it would be almost fast on the higher powered Atom chip.
tayme
on Jan 14, 2009
To compare an Apple iPhone or Apple iPod Touch to a netbook is very inaccurate. Somebody already mentioned the connectivity to a printer, add to that the lack of a near full size keyboard, the ability to connect an external drive (magnetic, optical, or other), etc. Those things cannot be done on the Apple iPod Touch or Apple iPhone. *mikegalos, note the use of the Apple brand that is common. Even though it is widely known that Microsoft is the owner of the Zune trademark, it is not widely or commonly used in the name. Noticde the use of the Apple trademark in this ad - http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat160500050022&type=category or this one - http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8764429&st=macbook&type=pr... - I think that is the point that chuckb84 was making...and I think that most of us, including you know that. --tayme
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
tayme More importantly a netbook is a notebook optimized for portability and Internet based applications. An iPhone simply doesn't run the same software as a notebook. While it may be a nice portable platform it's no more a netbook than my Windows Mobile phone. As for branding, Apple has more distinct branding than almost anyone I know. Computers do not use the Apple brand, they use Macintosh. Music players do not use the Apple brand they use iPod. Phones do not use the Apple brand, they use iPhone. While they may put an Apple logo on the products, they don't use the brand itself. An analogy would be that in the early 1970s the British Leyland Motor Cars (BLMC) family of automobiles used their own brands (MG, Triumph, Jaguar, etc.) but all had a BLMC logo on the fender (wing to UK readers). They had a BLMC logo and were BLMC products but you bought a Triumph TR-6 or Jaguar XK-E. You didn't buy a BLMC XK-E anymore than you currently buy an Apple Nano or an Apple Book Air. BTW: Speaking of Apple, it looks like Steve Jobs is taking medical leave until June. Here's wishing him a speedy recovery.
DRWAM
on Jan 14, 2009
Most netbooks probably do not have GPS. Yesterday, I was traveling to using my NUVI 760, which wanted to take me way the F out of the way, but I saw the directions at mapquest and knew it was a straight shot, then one turn, using the major roadway closest to my home. The NUVI kept on trying to get me to turn around at every street, and I mean EVERY street. The iPhone matched the Mapquest, easy. fast route, again, using the closest highway to my home. I was literally one block away from the destination, and the NUVI [with all upgraded maps] wanted me to drive 1.7 miles AWAY from the place, so that I would use it's route!!! NUVI is possessed. The iPhone showed me exactly where I was as well as the highlighted route, for the easiest and fastest travel. I even used Google map on my computer and changed the route to match the NUVI and showed that it added 15 minutes to a 25 minute drive! An Apple success story. Do netbooks have a GPS?
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
DRWAM Sounds like the NUVI is somehow locked into one of the more obscure modes (like Avoid Highways or Shortest Distance)
DRWAM
on Jan 14, 2009
Thanks Mike. I'll check it out. Maybe I accidentally touched something on the touch screen when I picked it up. Dang, sure was annoying, EVERY intersection.
lotsamystuff
on Jan 14, 2009
"I've noticed that when Paul criticizes Microsoft, Mike does everything in his power to change the topic in-thread..." ...and when you point it out, he'll attack you personally. So. Predictable. Let's see what mikey does with this news: http://www.macworld.com/article/138215/2009/01/jobs.html
shark47
on Jan 14, 2009
Microsoft doesn't have one logo like, for example, Dell, HP, or Apple. Every product group uses a different logo. That's what gives people like chuck the impression that Microsoft is afraid to use its name in the CE realm. Zune is also known as Microsoft Zune: http://search.live.com/cashback/products/search?q=Microsoft+Zune&pkw=FOR...
shark47
on Jan 14, 2009
"I've noticed that when Paul criticizes Microsoft, Mike does everything in his power to change the topic in-thread..." "...and when you point it out, he'll attack you personally." That's nothing compared to what goes on here when Paul makes similar comments about Apple. A lot of people take criticism of Apple personally, unfortunately.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
"Let's see what mikey does with this news: www.macworld.com/.../jobs.html" Actually, I posted "BTW: Speaking of Apple, it looks like Steve Jobs is taking medical leave until June. Here's wishing him a speedy recovery." on this thread 43 minutes before you stooped to turning Jobs' illness as a way to do an ad-hominem. You're not exactly a class act, are you?
DRWAM
on Jan 14, 2009
Mike, it looks as if you are correct again. I did a simulation, but checked shortest distance and unchecked all the avoidances, including traffic or heavy traffic and it did show a straight shot, except for a strange loopty-loop to get out of my neighborhood. For now on, I will do a simulation before get directions for my wife. The nice part of the iPhone is that you can check the entire route by moving the map on the touch screen, but the NUVI would not let me do the same. You're almost up to a whole six pack of beers that I owe you, or wine if you prefer. Thanks, Doc
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
DRWAM My mother's car ties GPS setting to the driver profile. She keeps it on "avoid highways". If I'm over at her place and I drive her somewhere I have to remember to change to the other driver profile if I use her keys or I get routed some creatively "interesting" ways so the symptoms looked familiar. On the bright side, though, I've found some shortcuts that way that really help in local traffic.
Waethorn
on Jan 14, 2009
"Do netbooks have a GPS?" Er, I'd say the Sony one does, but "it's not a netbook". Clevo also has some new barebones designs available. I might have to look into them. They have similar specs to most: Atom + UC15W chipset with GMA 500 which runs (very slow) DirectX10 "for advanced 3D UI's", so it should run Windows 7's Aero OK. They also have GPS modules, webcams, as well as a convertible 7" widescreen tablet form factor. http://www.clevo.com.tw/en/products/prodinfo.asp?productid=166 Here's the typical netbook non-touchscreen model: http://www.clevo.com.tw/en/products/prodinfo.asp?productid=155
Waethorn
on Jan 14, 2009
"You're not exactly a class act, are you?" Probably not. He's the one with the pointy hat on, sitting in the corner. http://tinyurl.com/87hruf
tayme
on Jan 14, 2009
@mikegalos - "While they may put an Apple logo on the products, they don't use the brand itself." That is just plain wrong. Every Apple product that I have owned or seen, includes the word Apple in plain English on the box that it is in. Not only that, but I just checked and the word Apple appears twice on the case of my MBP. When I click on "About this Mac", there it is again. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, the primary website that the company utilizes for ALL of its products is http://www.apple.com/. Yes, they are obsessed with putting an i in front of most of their product names...but it is obvious that they do, indeed, use the Apple brand name. --tayme
DRWAM
on Jan 14, 2009
I must say, along with some helpful info, you guys are good for some entertainment!
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
tayme And I'm sure the text "Apple" is in the copyright statement as well, but the branding is: iPod - music players Macintosh (or variants of "Mac") - computers iPhone - cell phones Apple - television interface (don't ask me why - I'm guess no brand manager wanted it) Those are brands. You can't buy a ApplePod, you can buy a iPod. (Which is made by Apple) You can't buy an Apple Book Pro, you can buy a Mac Book Pro. (Which is made by Apple) You can't buy an ApplePhone, you can buy an iPhone. (Which is made by Apple) You can't buy an Apple TV - oh, wait, you can. And, surprisingly, it's not a TV.
shark47
on Jan 14, 2009
I just looked at the the iPod Touch packaging. (I haven't thrown it yet.) "Apple" is mentioned as many times as "Microsoft" is on the Zune packaging. This means that either chuck and mike are both right or they're both wrong. I would say they're both wrong.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
Or to put it simply: Company: Apple, Inc Brand: iPod Model: Nano Company: Microsoft Corporation Brand: Zune Model: 16 So, what was that point about Microsoft branding that was supposedly so nefarious again?
tayme
on Jan 14, 2009
@sharky - I would agree that they are both wrong. @mikegalos - I guess that we use the word brand differently where I live. To me, brand is almost always synonymous with the manufacturer. I would use it like this: Brand: Apple Product: iPod Model: Nano or Brand: Ford Product: Truck Model: F150 I am guessing that you will be along to tell me how wrong I am...but whatever. I will agree to disagree. --tayme
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 14, 2009
tayme It seems to me that in consumer electronics, they do branding in a very simlar way. So, given that, what was that point about Microsoft branding that was supposedly so nefarious again?
robertsjoe
on Jan 14, 2009
@subzerohitman721: "Take the case of one robertsjoe. An individual so obsessed with his Apple computer that he blogs on sites dedicated to its rival Windows." You don't see the irony in it all? You complain about me, an Apple fan on a Microsoft site. Yet the site that I am commenting on is a Microsoft one that is obsessed with Apple.
robertsjoe
on Jan 14, 2009
@ocean: "This Windows 7 buzz is positively iPhone like." Ahh the dreams of a child. No base in reality whatsoever. If by buzz you mean within the Microsoft fanboys, yes. In other words, it's nowhere near iPhone-like. The iPhone is a cool device, a truly excellent one that is loved the world over. Windows? A giant hair ball! Hated by many people all around the world. Endured by many more; those that don't know any better; those that have no choice (stuck at a company with no imagination, lacking leadership -- hence left using Windows and Office and the other little bastards that go along with it). Or simply those that have no taste. The millions of followers point back all the way to the apex of the company; the lack of taste permeating all the way through and up to the sweaty armpits of The Leader. Windows?? zzzzz a giant bore, like the company that bore it.
tayme
on Jan 14, 2009
@mikegalos - I think that the point that chuckb84 was trying to make was that when Zune was released not too many people knew it was from Microsoft, in other words, as its own brand. I tend to agree with him. In fact, a lot of non-techie people are still not even aware that it is a Microsoft product; where nearly everyone has always been aware that iPod is an Apple product. Nothing illegal about that. --tayme
tayme
on Jan 14, 2009
@robertsjoe - Spoken like a truly obsessed teenager! Thanks for continuing to entertain me. --tayme
shark47
on Jan 14, 2009
@tayme: "I think that the point that chuckb84 was trying to make was that when Zune was released not too many people knew it was from Microsoft" I don't think he was pointing that out. He said Microsoft was intentionally doing this. This is what chuck said: "Yep. You'll also notice that we don't hear the products called the "Microsoft Zune", etc, they always try to establish a new brand for the particular product, and that's failed, with the arguable exception of the Xbox. Microsoft knows that people don't see their brand as something associated with fun products." I think chuck is wrong. First off, a lot of places refer to Zune as "Microsoft Zune". I used the Live Cashback site as an example earlier. When Microsoft's own site refers to Zune as "Microsoft Zune", chuckb'4s argument then has no merit?
chuckb84
on Jan 14, 2009
Mike, your rebuttals about the branding of the ipod, iphone, and---most hilariously--on the Macintosh computers are wrong. Those SCREAM Apple. The Apple logo is on every one of them, and they're all sold in the same stores, which are all identified out front with the very same logo (and no words or letters except that logo). When I google "microsoft zune", this is the top hit: http://www.zune.net:80/en-US/ the word "Microsoft" does appear, once, in tiny type at the unnoticeable bottom of the page, "©2009 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved". So, oh yah, they really want to link the word "Microsoft" to the word "Zune". In contrast, look at the ipod web page: http://www.apple.com/itunes/ See that little "Apple" logo at the top? The word Apple occurs 9 times on the page, and not as obscure copyright notice, but as an integral part. I think you don't even believe your own arguments; it's just rhetorical nonsense that is clearly wrong.
robertsjoe
on Jan 14, 2009
Layoffs at Microsoft may be coming tomorrow: http://www.alleyinsider.com/2009/1/microsoft-layoffs-coming-tomorrow-msft. With rumours that Windows Mobile may be hard hit. That would be what you get for not innovating after six versions and then shown-up as being mediocre by the iPhone.
robertsjoe
on Jan 14, 2009
@chuck84: Yeah, I think Mike is losing his mind with all the dribble he's been dumping on this post (and yes, no need to mention the irony (I know what you're thinking)). People know it's all Apple. I have no idea what Mike's mumbling about. Conspiracy? Next thing you know he'll do the old standard of "oh yeah 'cause 28 versions of Windows is great for users.. blah blah blah"
subzerohitman721
on Jan 14, 2009
Thank you, Mr. Thurrott for doing what you said you were trying to do. Being highly critical of Microsoft and their products. For those who harp on him for being obsessed with Apple, here is another example of Paul taking Microsoft to the woodshed. They do have problems and there is a history of money loss here. Nobody denies it. The difference here is that while robertsjoe has this blind devotion to Apple, on this site most folks debate both the pros and cons. The fact that Apple makes software and hardware for Windows makes it a credible topic of discussion. The difference though is many of us can step back and critique without our emotions or prejudices getting in the way. There is no irony here. You are Apple fan. Most folks on here are technology enthusiasts. For many here, Apple, Linux, Windows, whatever. Its all good. We can see the good and the bad.
RobertC
on Jan 14, 2009
I cannot fathom how anyone can claim that the Sony Vaio P is "not a netbook". There is no doubt that the Vaio P is a netbook. The difference is that it is more expensive than its competitors because it has superior features including better build quality, better screen etc etc. As far as I'm aware, the netbook moniker is derived from the actual size of the computer, rather than its price. That said, it's a silly name anyway - an 8 inch screen is hardly ideal for web browsing anyway. The Vaio TT and its predecessors (TZ, TX, T) offer a better compromise: 11 inch screen with superior connectivity and battery life.
vinski-
on Jan 15, 2009
Unbelievable how fast these comments gets derailed, its totally useless to try to make a conversation of the topic. I think Paul should just remove the possibility of comment, or hire some moderators to moderate here, and to do the necessary banning. I hate u all guys, thanks for ruining the Supersite experience!
Dipsh t Admin
on Jan 15, 2009
RoberC, the name "netbook" really doesn't mean anything the way that it is being promoted. The usage is all over the place, and let's not forget the little lawsuit by Psion (?) claiming netbook for their own. The name has been bastardized for sure. However, I feel that the term netbook refers to a small device that is also cheap, that in my opinion, leaves the Sony P out. However, having seen that and the OQO 02+, if I were to buy such a device, I would want the more expensive and versatile version over the cheaper ASUS and the like competitors.
tayme
on Jan 15, 2009
Either way...IMHO my Zune plus the Zune Pass is much better than the iPod/iTunes combo. Hardware and software wise. --tayme
RobertC
on Jan 15, 2009
I've read and heard a lot about the greatness of the Zune. It's just a shame that Microsoft won't sell it in markets outside of the USA. I reckon they should bundle them with the Xbox, or somehow tie them together such that the Zune could leverage the Xbox brand awareness. That said, I own a PS3 which I think is the technically superior system.
RobertC
on Jan 15, 2009
Dipsh, the Vaio might be expensive, but it has the highest quality components in its segment.
anonymous
on Feb 13, 2009
Give me a break if the courts fall for apples shinanigans then we just get 1 more ruling that proves that the system is currupt my phone should be mine to use as i please.

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