Current Zunes are discontinued; Zune HD is it going forward

Oh, an article with a mention of "Zune". That's good enough for Oceansjoe.

" because the media player in question costs more than the operating system in question." LOL! Funniest post evar! You see, the difference is that you don't have to spend a small fortune on a computer to use a Zune, cuz Apple doesn't make $399 systems. Right, Doc?

I love the current flash Zunes, I have 2 and I might pick up another, keep it the freezer a/la Steve Gibson. The new HD model is cool but I like the small size of the flash player works great for hiking and Mt biking.

Keep in mind that I truly hope that Microsoft makes the new Zune OS available to my 3 Zunes. Microsoft has done a fabulous job keeping the devices updated thus far...I just don't see it happening this time. And really, I am ok with that, too. It is understandable...just like Apple's decision regarding Snow Leopard compatibility. This is just another example if mikegalos' unending love of all things Microsoft and his outright hatred of Apple. Its weird, really. Oh, by the way...I am really digging my Palm Pre, too! --tayme

Its truely sad how Microsoft has botched the Zune. While the Zune HD looks cool and has some neat features, I have three thoughts on it. 1. Too little, too late. 2. How is it that this device has not been made internationally? 3. No matter what Microsoft does, it doesn't go far enough to make a compelling argument against the iPod/iTunes platform. If Microsoft really was serious about the Zune, they would have done a few things. 1. Make Zune the media player and ditch WMP. Bring Zune Media Player up to speed and add iPod sync. I think the Zune Media Player is the Zune's only advantage over iTunes, but it's not strong enough. 2. Undercut the iPod's price. For example, if the iPod Touch 16 GB is $299, sell the equivalent Zune player for $249. If Apple matches, go lower. That way the initial investment is lower and combined with the Zune Pass, it would make a compelling argument. At this point, I agree with rrode74. If the Zune HD doesn't make a real dent in sales, end this very bad experiment. I'd keep the Zune Media player, but hand off the store and devices to someone else. I'm in my 2nd generation of iPod's and honestly I don't feel any need to switch. You've got great service from the Apple Stores, you've got pretty darn good service from the iTunes store itself. While iTunes the software program definitely needs some work, its still useable enough to get the job done.

It seems strange that Microsoft would discontinue the entire Zune line for the HD. Could there be more coming ?

Good point, subzero. I think the problem is that Microsoft is betting on the wrong features with the Zune. I think Zune HD would have made a great phone and wouldn't have taken much more in terms of time and investment.

@subzerohitman: The Zune HD launch has been confirmed multiple times by Microsoft to be an international launch ("Canada, Europe and Australia".) @tayme: OK, let's look at what "supporting" means in context. PowerPC systems are no longer sold by Apple. Apple is no longer releasing software for PowerPC. The only way Apple could be considered as "supporting" PowerPC is through Leopard patches, and even so, that's only a side effect of Leopard being available for both. Apple is no longer making drivers for PowerPC. Basically, Apple is making it practically impossible to continue running a PowerPC indefinitely (in the sense of "as long as Apple is still around"). Sure, for a while software will be released for both, but eventually, the developers will move on. However, I can still use my first-gen iPod (or Zune for that matter) with the latest versions of iTunes (or the Zune software). In that sense, I can feasibly continue to use my device indefinitely (with the same caveats as before). This is what mikegalos is referring to. Now note that there isn't any precident for basing your allegations (that Microsoft will not update the firmware.) Note also that Apple has never updated the firmware for the iPod Classic (generally because there was no reason to, as each firmware was molded around the device, and still worked perfectly fine besides. There is also nothing wrong with that.)

@Mark KB - "This is what mikegalos is referring to." Obviously, you are new here. mikegalos said that since the OS will not run on the device, it is abandonware. My question to him is, *if* Microsoft does not make the new Zune OS available on the classic Zunes, do they become abandonware as well? I also told hime that I am willing to wait for the official announcement regarding it. But, using mikegalos' definition, if they do not make it possible to run the new OS on the older devices, then the response must be the same. Of couse, mikealos will find many reasons to say that is not the case. It is expected of him, many of us here have called him on this same type of blind love towards MS in the past...as well as his evident, odd hatred of Apple. As I have said before; I use and support products from both companies, as well as many others. They each have a role and a place that they out perform the other. To think otherwise is simple minded. --tayme

tayme And, as such, you have your answer to your hypothetical Zune question based on your fantasies about Microsoft. Once again as I already said (a hundred pingbacks or so ago) Two year old iPods are NOT abandonware because, although they're no longer sold, they are still supported in the iPod ecosystem. Two year old Zunes are NOT abandonware because, although they will no longer be sold, they are still supported in the Zune ecosystem.

@mikegalos - You called PPC based Macs abandonware because they are no longer sold and can not run the Mac OS X Snow Leopard because it is Intel only. They can still use the Apple ecosystem - ie, they still receive patches and in fact, I can still purchase new software from Apple and other sources that run on a PPC based Mac computers. In my hypothetical Zune question, I am assumming that the older Zunes will not only no longer be sold or be able to install the new Zune OS...but will be able to continue to utilize the Zune Pass (hopefully!) for music. Games and other applications will most likely not be compatible. My question to you is, "Which do you consider more abandoned?" You can choose to ignore this question or wait until all is official to respond, if you wish. --tayme

@chuck: PlaysForSure wasn't abandoned. It was renamed. Partners can still leverage their investments in Windows Media DRM technologies, but they now must fully certify their hardware for Windows Vista, hence the renaming of certified PMP's from "PlaysForSure" to "Certified for Windows Vista". It is otherwise the same. Microsoft still offers it. They just chose something different for their own PMP. How is that any different from Apple not licensing out FairPlay or make iTunes interoperable for manufacturers that want to have their PMP's work on the Mac platform? (Answer: it isn't)

So the backwards compatibility standard for Apple's OS X SL running on ‘computers’, is to be based upon Microsoft's older Zune hardware and whether those Zunes will be usable (they will) after the Zune HD ships? That has to be the lowest backward compatibility standard for a computer operating system I have ever heard of. Do Apple fans and supporters really want to establish this sort of comparison as something of a baseline? If comparisons are required, and I think they are not, since a great many Apple users upgrade to new computers as a larger percentage, more frequently than do their PC brothers and sisters (assuming were all from the same family of people that love technology), then the market into which Apple succeeds has to be considered for what it is - a unique subset of the larger personal computing market. One cannot compare "average" users from either camp, because average users from each side are so different. Enthusiast users from each side are also very different. On the Apple side enthusiasts buy new Macs regularly. On the PC side enthusiasts build their own new systems regularly, or they buy custom systems from people like me.

@Tayme, Current Zune hardware will continue to work with the Zune Marketplace and Zune Pass subscriptions. Nothing about the new Zune HD, or its OS will prevent existing hardware, all the way back to the original hard disc drive based models from working. The older devices have not been abandoned; however, the new Zune HD will have capabilities that are not supported on older Zune hardware - in the exact same way as there are features on Apple's iPod Touch that are not supported on the iPod classic, Nano, or Shuffle.

FYI: freakyfelt's opening comment here was quoted in Wired's "coverage" (air quotes reflecting that Wired is NOT what it used to be) http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/zune-discontinues-all-current-zunes/

tayme I'm amused by how you not only create your own fantasyland scenarios and expect other people to act on them as though they were facts but, on top of it, declare your own speculation as "hypothetical, but highly probable" Tell you what, I'll stick with facts (like Apple abandoning their highest end customers after only 37 months) and you can play in your own self-created and self-respected fantasyland.

@mikegalos - Actually, your definition of Abandonware is not correct. nor did I "expect" anybody to act on them. I gave you the option to ignore them repeadedly or to respond once an official announcement is made. Furthermore, I never said anything close to "When Apple does it it doesn't count. When I pretend Microsoft will do it in the future it's heinous". You really need to learn a thing or two about social interaction and consistency. Its really pretty sad, the life that you must lead. I'll leave you to your own little "fantasyland" where Microsoft is the innovator in every case, and anybody using a *NIX based system is a relic. I have once again shown how truly blinded you are...and I'll be back in a few weeks to do so again; because one thing that I am sure of is that you will still be having these same arguments on Paul's sites, because yours fails to generate hits. See ya then! --tayme

tayme Actually, "my definition" of abandonware is the one used in the industry. And I applied it equally in my examples to both Apple and Microsoft. Perhaps you can give us the one you're using. It appears to be "A bad thing that thus can never be done by Apple regardless of inconvenient facts and thus also will be done by Microsoft at some point regardless of inconvenient facts" Again, feel free to give us your own personal definition and how you apply it equally to both Apple and Microsoft.

yoshi The difference is that you can use a Macintosh without Safari or iTunes or iWork or iLife and many people do. You cannot use a Macintosh (at least AS a Macintosh) without Mac OS. Mac OS is a required part of the Macintosh ecosystem and not an optional extra and as such when it stops supporting a product line, that line is abandoned.

So on Sept 16th.... Can you buy a new PPC Mac = NO Can you buy a new Zune 120 or Zune 8 or Zune 16 = NO (assuming everyone is out of stock) Will SL install on a PPC Mac = NO Will Zune 3.0 OS work on older Zunes, some as old as 1 day = NO Is PPC Mac still supported by software and hardware vendors outside of Apple = Yes (in some cases yes as Leopard will still get updates, security only, and patches for iWork/iLife will continue) Is Zune 1-2.0 still supported by hardware vendors outside of MS (docking stations/car hookups) = YES Can you still use your PPC Mac with leopard and applications like Office 2008, CS4 and others for years to come = YES Can you still use your Zune device to play music and other media for years to come = YES Will new SN only software work on a PPC Mac = NO Will new only Zune 3.0 apps work on older Zunes = NO Are Mike and Iketchum gas bags that cant admit they are wrong = YES

Let it never be said that I, or the UFies.org site, is rabidly anti-Microsoft and only ever put up Linux...