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Ed Bott: The end justifies the means (Updated)

Mar. 2, 2009 Paul Thurrott | Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows

So Ed Bott has taken a stance on Microsoft's decision to ignore feedback and just plow ahead with whatever vision for Windows 7 they came up a year ago--you know, however they did it. Here's the word:

Last week my colleague Mary Jo Foley reported on rumblings of discontent from the invitation-only Windows 7 technical beta test community ... This was all in response to another epic post on the Engineering Windows 7 blog by Steven Sinofsky, who tried to explain how the feedback process worked. The whole thing is worth reading, although at 4700+ words I’m afraid most people will just skim it.

Frankly, I’m having a hard time working up any level of sympathy for those doing the complaining, partly because I heartily approve of the way Windows 7 development is going right now and partly because I have seen the feedback process up close and personal. Microsoft is getting a bad rap from a group of people who are mourning the reality that they’re no longer being treated as privileged elites.

Um. Wow.

Two things here.

1. My complaints about the Windows 7 Beta have nothing to do with Microsoft's treatment of anyone, including myself. I'm just one person. My fear is that the company made its decisions about Windows 7 sometime last year, or the year before, and is now simply plowing through on its strategy, come hell or high water. It's got kind of a "W" ring to it, when you think about it.

2. Regarding the technical beta, I've always found beta testers to be largely disposable, and most of them are indeed useless. But that's not the point. Microsoft betas have usually been marked by a meaningful back and forth communication. Microsoft presents some features, gets feedback, and responds accordingly. This time around, Microsoft presents the nearly finished product, gets feedback, and then fixes bugs but makes only very small functional changes because, heck, they froze the feature set a long time ago.

In Ed's opinion, what Microsoft is doing is just fine, thank you very much, because he likes how Windows 7 is turning out. Hey, so do I. What I'm worried about is a much broader issue, that the Windows team is becoming an Apple-like secretive Iron Wall behind which decisions are made in secret. Say what you will about Jim Allchin, but I miss the transparency. And I really do feel that there is a happy middle ground between the Windows team of 2005 (open, freewheeling, and, yes, prone to mistakes) and the one of today (iron-like secrecy, Soviet-style refusal to bend to anyone else's will, denial that anything can or will go wrong because they will simply not over-promise). There just is.

But I'm sure Microsoft will be happy to have Ed on their side on this on. The growing cacophony of people opposed to this regime's closed-lip policies was getting deafening, I'm sure.

I do agree with Ed that further Windows 7 betas are not needed. Living within the confines of Windows 7 development, the product is well on its way to completion. And let's not lose sight of one simple fact. Windows 7 is great, overall. It really is. I just don't agree that the end justifies the means. And I'd really like to see some changes to the way things are done going forward. Not for me. Obviously. For Windows.

UPDATE: With an eye towards telling the whole story here, I should note that Ed has followed all this up with another post, this time to his Windows Expertise blog. I don't have much to add, other than to say that this is certainly not anything personal (on either end). I agree that my post title here is inflammatory. But I feel strongly about this topic, so apologies if it offended. As he notes, we'll be seeing each other this week. I'm looking forward to it: I like and respect Ed quite a bit.

Discuss this Article 41

VINYLFREAK
on Mar 2, 2009
"I've always found beta testers to be largely disposable, and most of them are indeed useless" Paul, I am truly crushed! Tim
jombler
on Mar 2, 2009
Paul - I am of two minds on this. Yes, having the openess is good and a needful thing - however, lets look at the two who "Do Things Their Own way" Apple and now MS - what we the consumer get is a better product. Having to listen to and feel they must respond to the rabble of beta testers on everything leaves a muddied unfocused product - witness Vista. I don't know what is best, but I, as an end user, prefer to have the dev team less worried about every little change that tom dick and harry want implemented.
mcwilliams132
on Mar 2, 2009
More like a big "O" thing; if you want to keep political railings current... ;) "W" never shoved throgh over $1,000,000,000,000 in spending in one pen strokel.
kenmcnamee
on Mar 2, 2009
Coming from a software engineering background, and also as a heavy software consumer, I am leaning toward Ed's viewpoint on this. The world of software engineering is rapidly moving towards agile, iterative design in which you try to keep the process as short and simple as possible. You drastically limit the feature scope of one of these iterations which means that users might not get everything that they want at first. However, because the design and development iterations are short, users won't have to wait long for new features or feature changes. So the feedback/reward cycle is much shorter which makes the process much less stressful for the engineers and limits the possibility of a Vista-like catastrophe in which you need to scrap everything and go back to the drawing board. I think this is what Microsoft is trying to do and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now. This new process has clearly paid dividends in Windows 7 so maybe they are on the right track finally. However, I do share Paul's misgivings that the feedback on features might be a little too closed. That level of restriction might come back to bite them someday.
mikegno
on Mar 2, 2009
A big contrast from the old betas. Back in the day, the Win95 beta, I received email from Brad Silverberg himself about a video driver issue. Other suggestions were solicited although not always accepted. That was a much smaller beta, 10k. But it appears that even the early beta testers for Win7 are being ignored. The result in Win95 showed the attention to detail. While Win95 seems primitive by todays standards, it was pretty advanced at the time. It seemed that the MS success back in those days was in large part due to its concern for opinions of end users. MS's arrogance showed in the refusal to even acknowledge the overwhelming bad press Vista received.
kenmcnamee
on Mar 2, 2009
mcwilliams132: "W never shoved throgh over $1,000,000,000,000 in spending in one pen strokel" I hate political references too but I'm not a fan of either president. Bush was not exactly fiscally responsible you know. There was the prescription drug bill in 2006 which will cost trillions. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq cost about a trillion. And the $750 billion TARP program was initiated during his administration. All of those expenditures might turn out to be ultimately worth it or maybe not. That's going to be for history to judge. Paul's reference was to Bush's perceived tendency to make decisions and then not waver from them even in the face of new evidence. I can see a little bit of that in what Microsoft is doing now although, like I said earlier, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for now.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Mar 2, 2009
""W" never shoved throgh over $1,000,000,000,000 in spending in one pen strokel." Projection of where we'd be at the end of 2008 when Bush took office (based on continuing the Clinton budgets): $ 4,480,000,000,000 SURPLUS Actual state at the end of 2008 after 8 years of Bush spending: $ 4,350,546,687,026 DEFICIT So, again, I'm more concerned that "W" spent an extra $ 8,830,546,687,026 than how inefficient he was at penmanship.
Mum
on Mar 2, 2009
"I don't know what is best, but I, as an end user, prefer to have the dev team less worried about every little change that tom *** and harry want implemented." Exactly. Giving people what they want and what they ask for is two completely different things.
johnbaxter
on Mar 2, 2009
"While Win95 seems primitive by todays standards, it was pretty advanced at the time." It was also massively late. I still believe that Gates named it Windows 95 as a message to the troops: "It comes out in 95, or you go out in 96." The initial task was to produce something quickly that worked on typical computers of the day (particularly consumuer and small business) as NT took too much machine power. That didn't happen. Paul, regarding just one of your points: the default setting of the task bar. I tried the setting you advocate, the same day you mentioned it on Windows Weekly. I reverted to "stock" a few days later, as I prefer it. I don't think that makes your preference wrong, for you. I don't know which is best for the default. It's pretty clear that Microsoft (or at least the Windows part: Live Essentials argues to the contrary) has moved to a more classical meaning of Beta. I think that's good; Paul thinks it's bad. But what's clear is that the time to influence Windows feature selection and gross feature design going forward is pre-Beta. Paul, I think you should request a tour of the usability testing labs on a near-future visit to Redmond. One more face (even that of a recognizable outsider) behind the glass--if they haven't gone to one-way windows by now--shouldn't matter.
lotsamystuff
on Mar 2, 2009
"Actual state at the end of 2008 after 8 years of Bush spending:" Silly boy. Only Congress can initiate and approve spending. Bush just applied his signature to the profligate spending of the Congress, which was not under Republican rule for his entire tenure. Civics 101, "mikegalos".
tayme
on Mar 2, 2009
@mikegalos - "Projection...." Exactly. It is a projection. Not a fact. A projection, probably made ba a group that supports the left. I don't know that for sure, because you failed to source it, as usual. But this is about the W7Beta and Paul's perception that they are ignoring testers...something I think he is wrong about. We all know that the development lifecycle of a product cannot be never ending. MS is correct in locking the featureset....maybe if they had not put so much fanfare on the W7 Public Beta, the perception would be different. I think that it was less of a Beta program and more of a marketing ploy to get people to use W7 now, in hopes that they will buy it later. -tayme
kenmcnamee
on Mar 2, 2009
Paul, see what happens when you make political references? ;) lotsamystuff: Yes, technically it is Congress that votes on whether to pass spending legislation but if you think that budgets and other spending bills only are initiated by Congress then you're simply naive. Look at the TARP bill - it was crafted by the Treasury Secretary and his minions, approved by Bush and then submitted to Congress to be "officially initiated" and voted on by them. The government does whatever it damn well wants. THAT is modern day Civics 101. Tayme: You're right, projections are pure fantasy. Obama is basing his budget plans on 3% growth next year and for the foreseeable future. Projections are made to fit whatever the agenda is that is doing the projecting. I'm projecting that my salary next year will be double what it is this year and that I'll lose 30 pounds by next Tuesday.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Mar 2, 2009
"A projection, probably made ba a group that supports the left." Actually, Congressional Budget Office (not exactly a Leftist group in 2000) And the projections in any case reflected a continuation of the last Clinton budget that was paying down the national debt by roughly 1/2 trillion dollars per year. You may remember that the big economic worry at the end of the Clinton years was whether paying off the national debt in 12 years was too fast and whether the economy could handle having an extra 6 trillion dollars available for investment. Not an issue now with the debt up to 10 trillion rather than down to 2 trillion.
DarkSages
on Mar 2, 2009
"2. Regarding the technical beta, I've always found beta testers to be largely disposable, and most of them are indeed useless. But that's not the point. Microsoft betas have usually been marked by a meaningful back and forth communication. Microsoft presents some features, gets feedback, and responds accordingly..." Paul, have you forgotten what happen with Vista, they used the model you described and they keep pushing the completion date back. I don’t think that it is a good idea for Microsoft to follow the same pattern, right now what is at stake is “Windows Rep” they have tried to fixed it with Ads and “Windows Gurus” but when you search online for windows vista all you read about is negative perceptions. Most feedback for windows 7 was taken in xp/vista time and it is now showing in windows 7. I understand that windows 7 will not be the perfect, changes will come. Microsoft right now is all about under promising to over deliver. Beta testers don’t get discouraged and stop sending bugs and suggestions, because Microsoft will use all feedback received to continue to work on windows 7 and feature windows versions. This happen to me when windows xp was in beta, I sent many suggestions that did not take until windows xp SP2 and some in vista. I use my Beta testing to test software that I write and use and update it, in this case I don’t have nothing big to do because windows 7 works so much like vista.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Mar 2, 2009
lotsa Thanks for the Civic 101 lesson. Now we know that you think Reagonomics is misnamed and you're giving credit (or blame) to Tip O'Neill instead. But, of course, by your standards, remember that Congress for 6 of the 8 years in question was overwhelmingly Republican. So, either way...
chuckb84
on Mar 2, 2009
Mike, "Projection of where we'd be at the end of 2008 when Bush took office (based on continuing the Clinton budgets): $ 4,480,000,000,000 SURPLUS" Got a link to that in more detail? I've wondered what the exact numbers for the egregious W. really were. Even worse than I imagined. Remember when conservatives stood for balanced budgets? Those days are gone, gone, gone.
de Silentio
on Mar 2, 2009
"It's got kind of a "W" ring to it, when you think about it." "W" plowed through despite Reason itself. Microsoft has implemented a strategy to produce a product, that frankly is danm good. Pi$$ poor analogy, Paul. Anyways, I think I remember you once calling this a "service pack" upgrade. Now, I may be wrong, but if that is the case, you wouldn't expect Microsoft to spend countless hours changing the service pack because of user input. (I know we can get into the whole "You pay for 7, but not a service pack" argument, but that aside, Windows 7 seems to be a 'fix' for Windows Vista, and in that more like an advanced service and features pack that you pay for) Or I am way off base, that is possible too.
hamiltonstallings
on Mar 2, 2009
Man I hate politics. Its worse than the Mac vs Windows arguments.
Waethorn
on Mar 2, 2009
""W" never shoved throgh over $1,000,000,000,000" I read it was $1.75T somewhere. Meanwhile, our government is debating spending only $3B on economic stimulus. It was up from *only* $100M. Kudos to Harper for doing PR outside of the country for a change. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs6idz4Ej-E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3LOzZ6aJKQ
kenmcnamee
on Mar 2, 2009
Ok, back to the real issue. Ed Bott responds, http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=2386. The geek fight is on!
sameerV
on Mar 2, 2009
Paul, I think I agree with Ed and all the commenters on your last post about Win 7. You are being unreasonable in complaining about that taskbar. 1 its ok with most people and 2 we must give some credit to MS for soing research on this. instead of bashing it just because you don't like it. Also no point in going on about the flashing of taskbar buttons as you did on your podcast as it will be useful if it flashes for more than 3 times. and as far as your problem with Messenger is concerned how is it different from Vista or XP as even there we get the buttons to flash when someone is tries to talk to you. You are a smart guy and I really enjoy reading your posts and listning to your podcast. So get back to your good work.
dmick1954
on Mar 2, 2009
I can certainly understand Microsofts' refusal to embark on any massive changes to Windows 7 at this late date. We might suppose that such changes would be considered for a later date, perhaps for SP1. I am disappointed, though, that Windows has not chosen to communicate that intention, if that is their intention, to the beta testers. While Windows does not have a history of being great communicators, this one would seem to be common sense to me. One might ask, "Does Microsoft have anything approaching common sense?"
tayme
on Mar 2, 2009
@kenmcnamee - It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall at Thursday's meeting, or even more so at the mixers that generally occur before or after those types of meetings. Paul and Ed may just beat each other up with Zune headphones..... --tayme
Waethorn
on Mar 2, 2009
Quick question that people should be answer when Windows 7 RC is released: Can you turn off taskbar icon flashing? I don't really care, myself. It is handy to know when windows are "needy". I do a lot of deployment testing on my systems, so it's good to know what's going on when a system is sitting there with multiple VM windows open.
lotsamystuff
on Mar 2, 2009
"Thanks for the Civic 101 lesson." You're welcome. "Now we know that you think Reagonomics is misnamed and you're giving credit (or blame) to Tip O'Neill instead" You don't know Jack, Mikey. I never said a President couldn't influence spending, but Constitutionally, he is not responsible for originating such legislation. That is up to the Congress. "But, of course, by your standards, remember that Congress for 6 of the 8 years in question was overwhelmingly Republican. So, either way..." They're not "my standards", "mikegalos". Again, it's all spelled out for you in this pesky document we call "The Constitution". Just in case you want to read the relevant text, it's under Article One, Section Seven. While the "Origination Clause" is pretty clear that the House is responsible for revenue-generating legislation, it's less clear on spending appropriations. Either way, it doesn't put that responsibility on the doorstep of the Executive branch, be it Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Obama, or whomever else you'd like to demonize or glorify. Facts, "mikegalos", are an inconvenient thing, but you would do well to pay attention to them.
kenmcnamee
on Mar 2, 2009
sameerv: I don't think Paul is being unreasonable about the Win7 taskbar. I really don't like the default taskbar behavior either and changed it to be more Vista-like within a couple hours after installation. I think it should be noted that Paul's problem is not so much with specific Windows 7 features but with Microsoft's new policy of inflexibility to feature change requests during the beta stage. It really comes down to what you think the purpose of a beta should be. In the past, Microsoft was much more open to feature changes during this period. Now they are locking down the beta to mostly bug fixes. Ed Bott thinks this new behavior is the right way to go while Paul thinks that there should be some period of time during which testers are given the opportunity to provide meaningful feedback before the feature set is locked down. Personally, I think they're both right to some degree. Given Microsoft's new development timetable, the feature set should be locked down during the beta stage and only bug fixes checked into the RTM branch. However, I also think there should be a public alpha build during which Microsoft solicits feedback on features and allows more people outside of Microsoft to help shape the coming operating system. P.S. Microsoft did provide a PDC build of Windows 7 but that was basically feature complete as well. I think the alpha build should come about 8-12 months before the beta.
BrightrevCarl
on Mar 2, 2009
@DarkSages has it exactly right. Paul is essentially advocating for the Vista-development style. You have an endless number of users complaining about an endless number of features resulting in an infinite number of changes. It's Feedback -> Delay -> Feedback -> Delay -> Feedback -> Delay. You never get anything done this way, and end up with a half-baked product at the end. This is exactly what happened with Windows Vista. The new Office 2007/Windows 7/Apple development style produces higher-quality products and is less likely to be late. You get feedback at the beginning. Then you get the product done and concentrate on stability, quality and big problems toward the end. This development (and project management) model has proven to produce results.
Waethorn
on Mar 2, 2009
"However, I also think there should be a public alpha build during which Microsoft solicits feedback on features and allows more people outside of Microsoft to help shape the coming operating system." I think the changes set forth here will be defaults moving forward into Windows 8 - a brand new platform - but this is just a small step. Microsoft believes they've made changes for the better. I would imagine all of the CEIP statistics would agree with them. It's an ongoing process. They do change certain features over time based on customer feedback. Some are added, some are taken away (remember IE4 Channels?). I'm guessing that because Windows 7 is based on Windows Vista, a long gestation period isn't warranted. Windows 8 will likely be a much larger release so if the platform changes a lot, I'd expect some kind of open "technology preview" at the very least. That's a ways off though, and Windows 7 isn't even shipping yet, so there's lots of time to work out those issues.
Waethorn
on Mar 2, 2009
"You get feedback at the beginning. Then you get the product done and concentrate on stability, quality and big problems toward the end." One of the big issues that you fail to mention is to get hardware and software partners on the hype machine early. That way you don't have them falling behind just prior to launch.
shark47
on Mar 2, 2009
"@kenmcnamee - It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall at Thursday's meeting, or even more so at the mixers that generally occur before or after those types of meetings. Paul and Ed may just beat each other up with Zune headphones....." Hopefully, Paul has the lightsaber application on his iPhone? That might come in handy.
EricBPhoto
on Mar 2, 2009
As much as I respecet Paul I feel he is starting to "Jump the Shark" I can't seem to shake the feeling that Paul is only posting these articles because of the one thing he can't seem to stop complaining about....The Task Bar....I personally love the new default taskbar operation. He's starting to sound like a spoiled child that can't get what he wants. I agree with sameerv please get back to what we all love about this site. MS is actually going to be putting out a product that is quite amazing considering who is making it. After a certain point you just have to move on with the product and take into consideration the complaints for future patches or it will never come out. Somebody is always going to complain about something. Always.
Dipsh t Admin
on Mar 2, 2009
Ed gets it right, and he explained his points very well. And those points "jibe" well with the Engineering 7 blog. MS has been exceptionally open for such a wide ranging and important product. Remember that they still have to maintain some level of IP protection. The feedback garnered from Vista, through automated telemetry and through the very aggressive blogosphere that you have complained about as well, I think that MS got more than enough feedback and delivered a feature complete package in the beta, as they should in a reasonable development cycle.
richardfrisch
on Mar 2, 2009
I am happy to have Microsoft ignore beta-tester suggestions. I want bug fixes and nothing more. I want Windows 7 sooner rather than later. I would take it “as it is” in W7 beta build 7000. I find it works, it works well, and it works better than Vista on the machines where I have tested/used both operating systems. I think that Sinofsky knows what he is doing better than the blogging community. He has an excellent record of delivering quality software on time.
subzerohitman721
on Mar 2, 2009
Paul, To use your own terminology, I think you've jumped over the shark. The overall quality of the beta would not be possible if Microsoft wasn't paying attention. Looking at all the feedback: telemetry, bug reports, comments, public perception, and the technical reality of how Windows 7 was doing in this rather large beta testing environment. If Windows 7 was locked in such a time capsule in which feeback was not being listened to, then why is Microsot continuing to create newer builds with further changes and refinement? Because something in the combination of feedback, telemetry, and bug fixes demand changes. Just because Microsoft said not to your specific taskbar changes is really unfair. The new Superbar works just fine to folks who approach it objectively and adapt. Those people who can unlearn what they have learned, will adapt to Windows 7. The problem with folks with a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mantra. Just because it works, doesn't necessarily mean its the most efficient. Light bulbs work just fine, but CFL bulbs are more efficient. A 1967 Shelby Mustang will get you around just fine, but the new 2010 version is more fuel efficient. Change is ultimately inevitable and its time for Windows to modernize. The problem here is folks are stubborn to the extreme when it comes to change. Not every single change that users want can be implemented. Some of them are just border on ridonkulous. Do we really the the old file manager and classic start anymore? @ lotsa, Apparently, you do need a civics and lesson. The President of the United States has one of the greatest non-constitutionally recodnized powers. The Bully Pulpit. His voice and reason has the power to sway the voters and the masses in the ways beyond the power of the Constitution. His power of the veto is a check and a balance to the other institutions of government. That makes the President as powerful as 435 members of the House and 100 members of the Senate. To dismiss the powers and influence of the Presidency on legislation, is to really have no clue about how the American government really works. Either you've shown your naieve or just plain ignorant. The President very much can influence budgets and legislation. Remember the SCHIP bill? Bush said no and it died. Obama said yes and it became law. A major change to the budget in millions of dollars. The facts maybe also inconvienent for you as well. But ignoring 221 years of history and precedent, just makes you look like a complete idiot.
DRWAM
on Mar 2, 2009
Gents, these are opinions, so all are entitled, including Paul. Until someone can find some accurate data showing that he's wrong, I think that he can post what wants. Here in the US, you're innocent until proven guilty. I know, that was a stupid analogy, but I couldn't think of anything else.
RobertC
on Mar 2, 2009
Paul, sorry, I've been reading your blog for a long time but you are simply wrong on this issue. Every person in the blogosphere complained about how buggy and late Vista was and that was after having a very transparent development process. Now that Microsoft is on track to deliver one of its most stable and feature rich Windows releases in years, the blogosphere is up in arms that they don't have a say in changing the direction of development. Please get over it. Any person with a rudimentary understanding of software development will understand that a beta release should be pretty much feature complete and is primarily focussed on repairing bugs and performance issues. It is not a time to introduce new features or make major changes - that is a recipe for disaster and delay. Ed Bott is completely correct on this point and his argument essentially boils down to the fact that "too many chefs spoil the broth". Your criticism is basically that you don't like the new taskbar - yet any change to its behaviour this late in the process would contravene the point of a beta release and most probably lead to further delay in the Windows 7 release schedule. I, for one, can't wait to get my hands on the final version of Windows 7. It is receiving a lot of positive hype because the development team has taken a rational approach to the testing phase and remained disciplined toward the original development goals. This is a textbook case of good software development, yet all we hear is you carping from the sidelines about your obsessive dislike for the new taskbar and how Microsoft's refusal to capitulate to your concerns is evidence that they're "not listening". They are listening - how else do you explain the wonderful stability and usability improvements in Windows 7? The fact is that in a world where software is becoming increasingly ubiquitous, Microsoft has to have systems in place that cull useless and irrelevant feedback. Their widespread use of telemetry data, which is real and measurable compared to your subjective tastes, is evidence of this modernised approach. And Windows 7 is reaping the dividends. Sorry Paul, accept that your wrong and move on.
robertsjoe
on Mar 2, 2009
Apple is the world's most admired company. They got that 100% correct. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/mostadmired/2009/snapshots/670.html
Lindy
on Mar 2, 2009
Yawn...honestly who gives a rats @$$??? MS is going to do what they want, unless it will cost them major money loss. That has been its history and it will never change. Just take the 360 as a perfect example. There is TONS of proof MS knew it was a total POS going out the door and did nothing at all to stop it. Only when it was getting so much negative press with threats of law suits (that still came) did it do anything. And what it did was totally done to counter future lawsuits or at least try to take the steam out of them. Paul is going to blow off his remarks and get his panties in a wad to get coverage and attempt show he is relevant in the world of Windows press. Ed does the same thing, with much more class. In some interesting news Mama Gates is not allowed to have that iPhone she really wants. Hahahah richest woman in the world can get want she wants. http://www.style.com/vogue/feature/2009/02/gates-of-heaven/
RobertC
on Mar 2, 2009
Robertsjoe, welcome back from school. My admiration for Apple only extends as far as their ability to con millions of people for paying double the price for equivalent hardware.
Mum
on Mar 2, 2009
"My admiration for Apple only extends as far as their ability to con millions of people for paying double the price for equivalent hardware." Seeing as it's not really possible to have OS X on any PC, I'd say those millions of people are paying for the combination of hardware and software. I know I am. And it seems to pay off.
vijju
on Mar 3, 2009
while i would completly not agree about what paul has to say...i would give him my support on this issue where he rightly recoginzed the way in which microsoft is tryin to make "easy and simple" of the OS if microsoft has truly learned its lessons from vista then hey,why the heck does it need feedback again?....but frankly speakin guys i just donnot find comfortable working with the "suerbar" as what the techies call it..in this regard i would lyk to see more sujjestions from paul on enhancing it

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