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Enough, Microsoft. No One Is Endorsing Piracy. Obviously.

Oct. 29, 2009 Paul Thurrott | Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows

I love the self-righteous nature of this little Microsoft post, which quite clearly addresses the "hack" I published the other day without actually providing a link or naming names.

Unfortunately, it looks like it is time to have this conversation again though. Over the past several days there have been various posts, etc. across a variety of social media engines stating that some “hack” (be it a person or a procedure) shows that a Windows 7 Upgrade disc can perform a “clean” installation of Windows 7 on a blank drive from a technical perspective. Of course, from the posts I saw, they often forgot to mention a very basic, yet very important piece of information… “Technically possible” does not always mean legal.

Hey, Microsoft. Duh.

Let's be very clear about something here: I'm not endorsing piracy. Obviously. I'm just trying to support the millions of people that Microsoft fooled into pre-ordering Windows 7 by offering steep discounts, only to discover later that the Upgrade version they purchased unknowingly might not actually install properly. I've gotten hundreds of emails about this. I suspect Microsoft has gotten many times that number. So you know what? I'm going to continue supporting Windows users. Even as Microsoft throws them to the wind with this kind of baloney.

What really cracks me up is that this post quotes the most relevant EULA-based part of this argument. Which is this:

To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade.

Exactly. That's who I'm supporting. Millions and millions of people. Many of which are discovering that their Upgrade version of Windows 7 will not install properly on their existing, Windows-based PCs. The PCs that are supposed to support upgrades.

This should be obvious. Please stop suggesting it's not, or that I am doing something else.

And for the nth time, you could (and should) have clearly documented how this works months ago. Or allowed myself and others to do so. You chose to ignore this need. So this is a problem of your own making. It's that simple. You make it too hard. And then you complain when someone else tries to make it easy.

Brilliant.

Discuss this Article 130

zillatech
on Oct 29, 2009
I build systems for ppl too and I stand behind Paul and Millions of others that will run into the same trap w/ Upgrade Media when they have played by the rules and own legal copies of Windows XP or Vista. Nobody likes a "Dirty Install" ~
lketchum
on Oct 29, 2009
@zillatech, Great - that being the case, those people certainly may do a clean install - it is called custom and moves all old data, favorites, etc.. to Windows.old OR The may use the easy as pie User State Migration Tool (USMT) and migrate the whole works to another drive and again do a custom/clean install. Nothing about the rules prevents this and in each case as listed, the results are the same - a clean install.
rr0de74@live.com
on Oct 29, 2009
"Do not buy OEM copies and think you are kidding anyone - those are intended for guys like me who build systems for people." BS I know lots of people that buy OEM. These people would never call MS for support, because they are in IT or very savvy computer users. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116752 Newegg wont stop you. Besides Activation problems MS wont help you but who cares. www.google.com will probably give you a better, faster answer to a problem than first level MS support.
Logjamming
on Oct 29, 2009
http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7install/thread/0275d4... LMFAO! Broken promises, broken promises..... On the last step of the upgrade (transferring files/programs/etc), my laptop rebooted and came to a screen telling me the upgrade was unsuccessful and my previous OS files would now be restored. My laptop is now in what seems to be a loop of restarting and trying to restore the files. Each copy of Windows I have are genuine (not pirated or anything), and I ran the Windows 7 Upgrade Compatibility Advisor and received no warnings from it before attempting to upgrade. My laptop meets the minimum requirements for upgrade.
LuxZg
on Oct 29, 2009
I've just read the whole Microsoft post. And I have to conclude that as an unbiased bystander - I see no evidence of this being a slap to Paul for publishing these information. I find it only to be a slap to all the bloggers out there that (on purpose or not) are informing "the uninformed" that they can buy Upgrade licence and use it as full licence. Which of course is not always correct, as is nicely explained in detail in the same article. This sentence explains it real nicely: "Because of this, I am putting this post up to try and clarify the truth behind what an upgrade license is and provides so that hopefully people will not find themselves misled..." Paul - if you start taking things out of context you'll end up like a crusader. You know, Bible being the non-violent holy book, preaching love and peace to all man kind, etc etc, but which some people used as a reason for bloody wars through many centuries yadda yadda... Don't do that, please rise yourself above it.
LuxZg
on Oct 29, 2009
At everyone else, perhaps you should read the article as well. Perhaps if you've read this one single sentence you'd stop blaming Microsoft so much: "If the posts or write-ups you saw did include this information, then kudos to that writer for providing the accurate information" Oh, and Paul, don't you see yourself in this sentence? Perhaps you published this blog post so you COULD be in that group of people as well, since you forgot to mention "that little detail" before? ;) :P
lketchum
on Oct 30, 2009
rrode said: "BS I know lots of people that buy OEM. These people would never call MS for support, because they are in IT or very savvy computer users." Ok. So. It does not change the fact that the EULA on an OEM copy of Windows is very clear about who it is intended for - systems builders, who build and then re-sell complete computers. Once again, rules. Play by them, or do not - up to you, and as I said, just spare us the outrage and stop justifying breaking them. You call BS on anyone pointing them out? Don't you see how wrong that is? The rules are as clear as they ever have been.
Dipsh t Admin
on Oct 30, 2009
"I may have misunderstood, but this seems to be a problem in cases where you need to do a clean upgrade, such as 32-64, or if your system has problems and you need to reinstall." No and yes. the 32 to 64-bit upgrade is supported. You need to do a clean install, but it works fine with the upgrade media. The real issue is the reinstall that you talk about, and only when you are talking about a virgin hard drive.
Dipsh t Admin
on Oct 30, 2009
"This is what all you Microtards said when Vista came out. Look at how badly that ended. nice try." Of course this is only one example, but one need not look very far to see plenty of issues with SL as well. I'm not here to make a generalization, unlike RJ and his ilk. All operating systems have problems. Only the Mac camp is indignant about it. http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/29/27-inch-imacs-having-performance-issues/ Money quote: "Hey PC, did you hear? The new iMacs are out, and they're not going to have problems they didn't have before. Trust me."
panache1023
on Oct 30, 2009
FYI, I just read the EULA for Windows 7 (Home Premium), for the packaged version off the shelf, not OEM preinstalled software. "15. UPGRADES. To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade. Upon upgrade, this agreement takes the place of the agreement for the software you upgraded from. After you upgrade, you may no longer use the software you upgraded from." Nowhere does it state that the previously licensed software must be installed. Therefore, if you are entitled to an upgrade, there is no legal restriction that you must have a previously licensed version of windows *currently installed*. So, if an Upgrade media disc allows you to do a full install, you are not breaking any laws, if you are entitled to that upgrade. Since the Upgrade media ALLOWS this to happen, you are not breaking the EULA clauses regarding working around restrictions in the software. I read the EULA, so I have some expertise in this area.
panache1023
on Oct 30, 2009
lketchum, Am I allowed to buy an OEM license, install it on a computer, sell it to my parents at a massive discount, iet's say 99%, and then have them give me that same computer back as a gift?
mikegalos@msn.com
on Oct 30, 2009
panache "I read the EULA, so I have some expertise in this area." See, you ARE capable of learning.
Dude1313
on Oct 30, 2009
Waethorn said: "Those are some pretty rich people seeing as how they each purchased over 150,000 Macs last quarter!" Nope. Just one each. Each one sold subsidizes the Steve Jobs Hospice Fund. *************************** Waethorn said: "That's exactly the kind of classless comment I'd expect from you" Ya, you know, cuz calling Ballmer "Monkey Boy" is so much more ma ************************** Yeah because poking fun at someone dancing around on stage is the same thing as mocking someone's near death experience.
gfryesc1
on Oct 30, 2009
Erico, go back to English class.
panache1023
on Oct 30, 2009
Got my Windows 7 Home Premium upgrade package yesterday. It looks so nice in the box, I don't want to unwrap it to install it! Don't be jealous!
EricoF3
on Oct 30, 2009
@gfryesc1: This is my English class :) lol Thanks to all of you, I learn a lot by reading and writing here... Just hope you see a little improvement over time ...
Waethorn
on Oct 30, 2009
"Yeah because poking fun at someone dancing around on stage is the same thing as mocking someone's near death experience." In one point, losta is mocking what he would call Ballmer's, ahem, mental deficiencies. In the other, I'm mocking Jobs's in return - his immuno-deficiencies.
danieldecker
on Oct 30, 2009
To all of those on here that feel the need to attack Erico for his poor English, Seriously? How childish and rude. It's like kicking a 5th grader because they don't know Calculus, it's just something they don't know yet. Erico makes plenty of factually incorrect, uninformed, and baseless statements (not to mention poorly thought out personal attacks), that there is plenty of content in what he is *trying* to say that there is no need to go so low as to attack his command of a foreign language. And Erico, do yourself a favor my friend, lay off the "shut up, go home, play in the street" and foul mouthed remarks. No body appreciates it, it does little to advance the conversation and compounds the problems already inherent in the language barrier. I take the time to read what you have to say, and I am pretty good at working through the language difficulty, but really? Please don't waste my time by making bellow the belt remarks. You sell yourself short when you resort to poorly worded personal attacks.
panache1023
on Oct 30, 2009
Waethorn, You prove yourself to be more and more of a jackass the more you make fun of a human being's health problems. If you can't see how making fun of someone for acting silly on a stage vs making fun of someone's failing health, then you really are the lowest kind of trash on Earth.
panache1023
on Oct 30, 2009
danieldecker, well said.
danieldecker
on Oct 30, 2009
@panache1023 Ditto.
EricoF3
on Oct 30, 2009
@danieldecker: Ok Daniel, I accept you coments... Some times I am going on the wrong path, I admit it!! I have difficulty to contain myself when I see some of you talking with sarcasm about my poor english by telling I am drunk all the time and things like that so... I try to fight fire with fire but as my english is far to be perfect, may be I am just going to far... sometimes... Please excuse me all, I will stop that, but, I ask you all, please help me with my english rather than telling silly things about me and my language... Thanks Daniel.
Dude1313
on Oct 30, 2009
I agree Erico, is usally waaaaay off base, but lambasting him for his English? That is a low blow and an unwarranted one IMHO. Something I'd expect from certain members of the site, read below. Waethorn- You can try all the revisionist history you want to, but you have been dropping these "lame jokes" about a very serious medical condition for a while now. At one point on this blog you used "Skeletor" to describe his appearance... sorry in no way can you justify it.
rr0de74@live.com
on Oct 30, 2009
"then you really are the lowest kind of trash on Earth" +1 @danieldecker you are right about making fun of Erico's broken english. However he asks for it with his "Erico makes plenty of factually incorrect, uninformed, and baseless statements (not to mention poorly thought out personal attacks)," If his statements or questions were sensible, produced with tact and lacked the stupid attacks and other weird stuff, I would not even see the language barrier.
Waethorn
on Oct 30, 2009
"If you can't see how making fun of someone for acting silly on a stage vs making fun of someone's failing health, then you really are the lowest kind of trash on Earth." "sorry in no way can you justify it. " You mean like insulting peoples nationalities, parentage, inability to spell, or generalizing their career by calling them "just another dipsh_t". Yes how do you justify that?
panache1023
on Oct 30, 2009
Waethorn, First of all, you are quoting something I said and then say, "ou mean like insulting peoples nationalities, parentage, inability to spell, or generalizing their career by calling them "just another dipsh_t"" You used my quote in your non-sense, therefore part of that comment comes my way, which is out of line since i never did those things. Secondly, you are comparing making fun of someone that is NOT DYING, to making fun of someone that IS DYING, or ALMOST DYING, or ALMOST DIED. So, once again, you prove yourself to be just a piece of trash.
tayme
on Oct 30, 2009
@All - You guys are all really so simple minded. Your trash talk against each other has moved to another level and lowered Paul's blog to the likes of JAF (just another flamewar". I used to get usefull information here, but that ended a long time ago, and the entertainmnet value is disappearing quickly. Each of you is as guilty of the same things as the ones that you are pointing fingers at. @Paul - Its too bad to see this happen, as I have been reading and learning from your sites for more than a decade. Today I will be requesting to have my account removed. --tayme
Waethorn
on Oct 30, 2009
"You used my quote in your non-sense, therefore part of that comment comes my way, which is out of line since i never did those things." Nope. Just wondering where your outrage is for those people.... "Secondly, you are comparing making fun of someone that is NOT DYING, to making fun of someone that IS DYING, or ALMOST DYING, or ALMOST DIED." And yet he's not. So now we can laugh about it. He even made jokes himself at the last WWDC. Seriously though, when he does kick the bucket, as everybody will, are you going to raise him to some kind of martyrdom status? He's just a man, which you seem to forget. He isn't Apple incarnate. If you really believe he is, then when he goes, Apple dies too.
panache1023
on Oct 30, 2009
No Waethorn, I'm not going to lift him up? Will lift up Bill Gates, or Ballmer? Regardless, that isn't the point. Steve Jobs made fun of his health, fine...it's his health. I doubt he made fun of a serious situation in order to taunt people as you do. Also, where is my outrage that someone made fun of another person's online handle on a blog? Are you serious?! Notice that I have many times said things to people about making fun of EricoF3's english...yet even still, how you can compare that to making fun of someone's health is hard to believe. What's harder to believe is that you are still trying to justify your insults. The more you do it, the bigger piece of garbage you expose yourself to be.
NoNameAtAll
on Oct 30, 2009
"gfryesc1 said: Erico, go back to English class." Yeah, you're lame. Stop blasting Erico for his English. Seriously.

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