Microsoft documents how Windows 7 E customers can get a browser

I really do feel bad for the citizens of Europe being given versions of Windows 7 that nobody really wants. I've read a lot about how nobody in Europe really wants the E, N, and how South Koreans could care less for the K editions. I'm just glad in the U.S. we'll get our versions of Windows 7, with a browser and the option to remove it. M apologies to rrode74@live.com. I couldn't respond to your comment because of sleep and work. I will say that there are people still complaining about lackluster or unavailable drivers in the Windows 7 RC. Many of them do on the Engineering Windows 7 Blog. Much of the work on drivers is far from finished. There are many devices and machines that need updated drivers. So please, don't assume that because of the stellar beta/RC so far, that everything is done.

Yes Europe do stupid legislation about IE in Windows... Its pain in the DOP!

"Am I going to be able to purchase another version in the UK legally or am I forced to “circumvent” this in order to remove a (wholly unnecessary) extra installation step in order to deploy Windows 7." I'd suggest acquainting yourself with the IEAK so that when you script an install, IE8 will be included in the script with an unattended, customized installation. Once you generalize and capture the deployment image, you'll have an IE8-integrated version of Windows 7 that you can deploy with ImageX, WDS, MDT, or SCCM. You could even stick the installation (or just the configuration script and use it with a bootable install DVD) on a USB thumbdrive and install from there. When you're dealing with 100+ seats, you don't want to be installing from the DVD. Prepare your installation images ahead of time, use corporate deployment technologies (all of the ones I listed are free except for SCCM), and save yourself the headache.

It's pretty much a no-brainer i.e. download and then burn to CD/DVD-R a copy of IE 8 beforehand, and install it afterwards. UK residents can click here: TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/cgh4tg Full URL: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=79154fb4-c610-4... I also would imagine that U.K. computer magazines will have a copy of IE 8 available in the attached CD/DVD. There is no reason Microsoft couldn't do a CD give-away in some popular magazine or better yet with newspapers in the U.K. as well. Moreso, if it is that much of a bother, just ask some guy at the U.K. equivalent of Canada Computers to slap on a copy. What they hay, I will do it .. for 5 bucks or maybe even free if you promise to subscribe to my Youtube video channel - just send me your U.K. computer and I will put IE 8 on it for you. But you have to pay for shipping and handling etc. that's fair.

Another quick question (at this to the list): 5) Can you remove IE8 from 7E after installing it?

5) Can you remove IE8 from 7E after installing it? Waethorn, more than likely yes. As for those who have posted up a Vista and Server 2008 IE link, I doubt that'll be good enough to get it on 7. It wouldn't surprise me if there has to be a specific build for 7, especially as it'll have to add stuff that'll allow its removal completely from that "Programs and Features" area of the Control Panel (which you can't do with Vista,or it's not the same I don't think?).

@realtestman: So E "Upgrade" versions have basically the same bits as what's on a Full version, aside from the product key acceptance, and license restrictions? How do you install an E Upgrade version? Do you need to start the upgrade from within Windows? How does that work exactly? I'm guessing the installation has to be completely rearchitected because you could previously only do a clean install after booting off the disc. If you launched the install from Windows, it would only give you the in-place upgrade option. I guess this relates to non-E versions as well. They say you have to have a previous installation of Windows to use upgrade media. Will the upgrade media allow you to boot off it and do a custom install move the files to Windows.old as it does with a Win 7 RC to RTM upgrade? How about for E versions?

Another question: 6) Will IE8 be offered via Microsoft Update as it is today for Vista?

Let them eat cake.

"From what I understand, you have to start the install from within a valid copy of Windows." How can you possibly do a clean install as realtestman predicts from within a currently-running Windows version?

"So E "Upgrade" versions have basically the same bits as what's on a Full version, aside from the product key acceptance, and license restrictions? How do you install an E Upgrade version? Do you need to start the upgrade from within Windows? How does that work exactly? I'm guessing the installation has to be completely rearchitected because you could previously only do a clean install after booting off the disc. If you launched the install from Windows, it would only give you the in-place upgrade option. I guess this relates to non-E versions as well. They say you have to have a previous installation of Windows to use upgrade media. Will the upgrade media allow you to boot off it and do a custom install move the files to Windows.old as it does with a Win 7 RC to RTM upgrade? How about for E versions?" There is no E upgrade version. What is on offer till the end of the year is the full version at upgrade prices (until Microsoft has come up with workable upgrade E media). Paul posted up how it's all done on normal Windows 7 and Windows 7 E weeks ago. Check the Windows 7 section.

"How can you possibly do a clean install as realtestman predicts from within a currently-running Windows version" It'll warn you you'll have to do a clean install. Paul Thurrott posted up the screenshots (for XP admittedly but surely it'd be the same with Vista too, when using E media), check his Windows 7 section.

Yes Microsoft could have offered a screen at which you can choose a browser, in fact that was the demand of the EC, of course they denied that. I would be surprised if Microsoft doesn't offer ie8 through Windows Update, that would be the easiest solution.

Yet another example of how laws, copyrights, patents, greed etc. keeps technology from evolving to its greatest/easiest potential for the paying customer. Sadly, I think that in our civilization, we're on a path of destruction and we've reached a point of no return. We are at a point in time where technology needs to evolve at amazing speed to match the grand economic, security and environmental issues humankind is facing. Sadly, the way the system works wont allow for this to happen(and we'll all die in 70 years time, IMHO). Drama aside, keeping the one major OS that NORMAL PEOPLE use from including a browser from the get go in 2009 when the net is as important as electricity = insanity. That this is ACTUALLY HAPPENING and not just crazy talk = sign that technology is doomed to evolve too slowly to suit our present and future needs. And it is sad in every aspect of tech too. Can you imagine how easy computers and devices would be to use today if companies had a limit of 3 patents each? All very depressing...

"Why should Microsoft distribute other company's browsers? Should they be obligated to include download links for things like Open Office when installing MS Office also? I doubt that Mac OS/X gives you the choice to install IE when installing it." Should Microsoft be obligated to include the Mach kernel in their OS? How about the Aqua shell? How about a download link to iLife instead of Windows Live Essentials?

"As far as I understood, in Europe until at least the end of the year, all version of Win7 are full versions at upgrade pricing." That's what I understood from Paul's writeup. So you're missing a browser but you get a cheap full version. Why the complaints?

Waethorn: "How can you possibly do a clean install as realtestman predicts from within a currently-running Windows version?" You put in the disc, go through some prompts, when the installer reboots you choose "Custom". Vista works this way currently, I think.

"You put in the disc, go through some prompts, when the installer reboots you choose "Custom"." That's a clean install then. Vista Upgrades can't do that either. If you try to boot off an Vista Upgrade disc, the only option you have is to install a trial copy first (don't specify a product key). Once the install is complete, you launch Setup from within Windows, and enter your Upgrade product key. It proceeds with an in-place upgrade over top of a clean (but trial) copy of Windows Vista, which is the same thing. Windows 7 doesn't have the option of doing an "upgrade" install by installing over top of a trial AFAIK. To summarize, this is what is known about Vista and 7 [E] versions from as many reputable online sources as I can find points from: 1) Vista upgrade versions can only be used to perform in-place upgrades when Setup is launched in Windows. 2) Vista upgrade versions can install a trial copy on a clean computer by booting off the disc. You can then "upgrade" the same OS by launching Setup from within Windows, but you MUST enter your upgrade product key immediately, because upgrade keys are only accepted if Windows Setup is launched from within Windows. This is how you "clean" install with Vista upgrade media. 3) Vista full versions can be installed cleanly by booting off the disc. You can install a trial and enter a product key later if you like, but you have to choose the right version of Vista that you bought. You don't have to reinstall over top of a trial though. (Note: I dunno if you can do an "Upgrade" with a full version - never bothered to check. Someone please confirm this.) 4) Regular Windows 7 upgrades require a fully-licensed, fully-activated version of Windows to be installed. 5) Windows 7 E versions are all full versions, even upgrade packages. Windows 7 E versions don't allow for in-place upgrades. 6) You can do an in-place upgrade of Windows 7 RC to RTM, but it's not supported. 7) You can do in in-place upgrade of Windows Vista to Windows 7. 8) You can't do an in-place upgrade of Windows XP to Windows 7, but it meets the upgrade license requirements. 9) You can no longer install a clean trial copy and "upgrade" by installing over top with Windows 7. Ok, given point 5, and my assumption about full versions of Vista not allowing in-place upgrades in point 3, I'll make the assumption that ALL Windows 7 full versions DON'T allow in-place upgrades. Likewise, Upgrade versions don't allow clean installs. .... One question that keeps stinging my brain about this all is how an Upgrade version installs cleanly when the user has Windows XP.... How does THAT work?! You have to launch Windows Setup from within Windows. Granted. Windows checks the license activation (?). Then what? Setup copies Windows PE boot files and it continues from Windows PE after a reboot and moves all your stuff into Windows.old?? IHNI, just asking. Why couldn't they do this with Windows 7 E upgrades?

Heran is right on this! Microsoft made a good move... Lets talk about Chrome OS now!!!

Or, 1. Buy a Mac. 2. Install VMWare. 3. Use VMWare Transporter and an ethernet cable to bring over your old Windows installation. Lock, stock and barrel. All settings, all documents, everything. 4. Sell your old PC. 5. Gradually transition to OS X, using VMWare as needed along the way to run old apps. 6. Live happily ever after. Does Microsoft have a death wish or just stupid, arrogant leadership?

@chuckb84 LOL, Microsoft isn't to blame here, it's the EC, but Apple will find out about them soon enough. Interesting times, PearC rings a bell, that's a company in Europe that sells normal priced hardware that runs OSX, now the minute Apple is going to face that company in court, they might find that in Europe their monopolistic EULA is void. At least then OSX fans don't have to buy Apple's overpriced hardware :) If you happen to live in the EU: https://www.pearc.de/?___store=english&___from_store=german Now regarding your suggestions, quite a costly solution to overcome a browserless OS, don't you think ?

"I doubt that Mac OS/X gives you the choice to install IE when installing it." That could be because Microsoft doesn't make a version of IE for the Mac. It's interesting that you say that, though, because at one point, Microsoft Internet Explorer was the only non-Apple program whose icon was installed by default in the Dock of all new Macs. That was before MS let IE for the Mac languish, and Apple was basically forced to write Safari.

"Even though the UK is in Europe, I'm no big fan of the EU and the better option would have surely been, fine, include Internet Explorer with Windows, but when you uninstall it, make it completely uninstall -- but only at the user's discretion." Funny that cos that's what it does in Windows 7, at least for the non-EU versions. It's in the dialog that lists Windows features that you can select or deselect. For EU versions, it's anybody's guess but the word is that once you have installed IE, it lets you uninstall using the same dialog.

"You have to be able to upgrade and do a clean install from within Windows, otherwise upgrades from XP and 2000 would not work." You can't do a clean install in Windows though - you have to boot off the disc for that. You can only do upgrades while running setup IN Windows. For Windows Vista, they let you do trial installs. That option isn't available in Windows 7. Neither is doing in-place upgrades of XP. In that particular statement you reference, I was specifically taking about Windows Vista. I get that portions of the installation options have changed in Windows 7 - what I want to know is exactly what options. " Use VMWare Transporter and an ethernet cable to bring over your old Windows installation. Lock, stock and barrel. All settings, all documents, everything." And ZERO activation. Good luck getting that migrated. Activation will break when you move it to a virtual machine, and Microsoft won't accept virtualization as an acceptable alternative to hardware. A virtualization is a new machine, and you need special licensing requirements to migrate to different hardware (retail full versions are the only consumer SKU that allow that, otherwise you need software assurance). "It's interesting that you say that, though, because at one point, Microsoft Internet Explorer was the only non-Apple program whose icon was installed by default in the Dock of all new Macs. That was before MS let IE for the Mac languish, and Apple was basically forced to write Safari." Oh, you mean when Microsoft, the biggest software company in the world, announced that they committed to offer the most popular productivity software in the world, Office, to a platform that wasn't their own, thereby allowing users of said alternative platform at least close to the same amount of productivity that users of their own platform had, and legitimizing the alternative platform in the eyes of the computer industry, when the industry had let them falter? Ya, poor Apple.

@Doc: Good to hear. Does it work in native mode at all? Just curious. Since it's a web app, I'm guessing you haven't had any reason to test it on the x64 version of Windows and/or IE. The 32-bit version of IE is the default on 64-bit Windows due to compatibility issues of plugins anyway, so users won't see any real difference. There is a 64-bit version of IE too though, and plugins usually have to be recompiled to work correctly in it. @all: Which, if any, browser makers have built their browsers in native Windows x64 code?