No Ultimate Extras in Windows 7. But wait, it gets worse

"Windows Vista Ultimate Extras are quietly removed from your PC during the upgrade to Windows 7." I have absolutely no problem with that because I think it means that Microsoft has removed that bit of useless code in Windows 7 that enabled Dreamscene and other Ultimate Extras. They are focusing on making Win7 leaner and I'm all for that. In any case, I think most people who bought Vista Ultimate bought it because they wanted/needed BitLocker or Remote Desktop or just because they wanted to say that they had the Ultimate edition. Anyone who was stupid enough to pay top dollar for a product that vaguely promised them some nebulous features sometime in the future deserves to have those features rudely snatched away.

oh knows, what to do without my 25 extra language packs!

@meason: The language packs are still part of 7 Ultimate. They are not an "Ultimate Extra". MUI (which is where the language packs originate from) is in Ultimate and Enterprise, but you can also get MUI through a volume license agreement, even if you don't get Software Assurance. It works with Vista Business, but it's a separate download to enable the feature. Businesses needing MUI need to use WAIK (WinSIM in the Windows Automated Installation Kit) to get the feature though.

@meason I believe the language packs are a basic part of W7 Ultimate and not an extra.

The Windows Vista Ultimate Extras were an absolute joke. When you write the final word on Windows Vista's history, this definitely belongs in the Where Microsoft failed with Vista page. DreamScene, Texas Hold'em, and the like did nothing to enhance Vista at all. I surely will not miss them and I applaude Microsoft for getting rid of them. Everyone from our Mac fanatics to regular Windows users were complaining about how big Vista was. 15 GB of hard drive space. It got even bigger with Ultimate Extras. So if we're going to get Windows 7 into shape, why the heck do we need Vista's useless junk? If you want some change, you got to swallow that horse sized pill called sacrifise. Do you really need DreamScene? Is it that vital? Kudos for trimming the fat. I like Windows 7 sans Extras. Maybe they can make it an optional download later, for those who really want it.

"Everyone from our Mac fanatics to regular Windows users were complaining about how big Vista was. 15 GB of hard drive space." That's 15GB during installation, 8GB post-install.

@Waethorn Oh I know, I was being sarcastic.... as extras for the longest time seemed to be just language packs. Only reason I got Ultimate was the needs for some of the business stuff on top of the media stuff for work/home use.

Ultimate Extras was not Microsoft's finest hour.

I bought ultimate because I wanted MCE and RDP - and I got it really cheep at school. I'll graduate before Win7 releases so I'll probably go with a cheaper version and use a VNC solution. I'll bet a lot of people didn't pay full price for ultimate.

@scottbakertemp Same here. I purchased Vista Ultimate because I needed Windows Media Center for a Digital Cable Tuner PC, plus I wanted to have Remote Desktop server so I could remotely administer the PC. The other features that drove me towards Ultimate were: - the inclusion of Offline Files & Folders so that I could host my home directory on a server while automatically keeping it in sync in case the server was offline. (I have since changed this file sharing technique to use Live Mesh.) - "Previous Versions" for quick access to previous versions of edited documents stored on the local file system.

"Only reason I got Ultimate was the needs for some of the business stuff on top of the media stuff for work/home use." That was the whole point in a nutshell. Ultimate Extras were just a bonus because you bought the highest SKU. "After I cleanly installed Vista, it took up way more than 8GB. More like 15 GB. There's no way it could be 8 GB post install, because on the Home Basic, Premium, and Ultimate installs, it definitely ate more hard disk real estate. This total was before I added anything to Windows Vista. Just a raw bootup on 4 different machines. So I would have disagree with you based up on several installs and several machines. IMO." I do installs every day on many new systems as I build systems for a living, so you can't win this debate. I've even been able to image a hard drive of Home Basic post-install to test out on an 8GB SSD (comprised of a CF-to-IDE adapter) so I know what I'm talking about. If you're installing SP1 on it, the original Vista RTM files are left on the drive. You have to use VSP1CLN.EXE to clear them off.

Don't forget about Microsoft Tinker... which I think is by far the best of the ultimate extras. I think it's ridiculous that I would lose access to it for "upgrading" to Windows 7.

I'm really sorry, but I can't help but laugh.

"In the real world, especially the financial world, your notebook users better be using some sort of whole hard drive encryption, preferably something like this..." Sorry, but you suck at IT. In the REAL WORLD, mobile corporate users would be accessing important data over an SSL VPN or private dial-in service, sorry to say. You can overcharge all you want to your clients, but the reality is there's no need for workstation hard drive encryption when everything is on the server.

scottbakertemp said: "I'll bet a lot of people didn't pay full price for ultimate." Bingo is your namo! Microsoft full retail package prices are always high and probably always will be because there many others ways to get the stuff for almost nothing leaglly if you simply look around. I don't think that Microsoft makes much money on these boxes and just sets the price high to get a little gravy out of it.

@Waethor - "Sorry, but you suck at IT." Sorry, Wae...but you are completely wrong in this case. In a corporation of any size that is regulated, i.e. - healthcare, finance, insurance - Lindy is exactly right. Trust me...I work with regulators and regulations on a regular basis and your scenario would not pass muster. Encryption is a requirement, at least in the US...and I would hope that if a company was worth a crap, that they would use a combination of HDD encryption and strict policies regarding the type of data that is stored on the local drive. Oh, and did you really say that users would be connecting via a private dial-in service? Really? They still use modems in the corporate world in Canada? Really? You've got to be kidding... -tayme

OK, so if what Paul Thurrott is reporting about Ultimate Extras in Windows 7 is true people should be up...

"Locking down every aspect of a remote users computer to prevent data theft is not practical or possible." LOL! Then you fall under the same category as Lindy. "they would use a combination of HDD encryption and strict policies regarding the type of data that is stored on the local drive." I work with a few sub-government contracts and remote workers get assigned systems that are fully locked down. I dunno about you, but our government system doesn't allow Joe the Contract Plumber to go to Best Buy and purchase a home PC to use on their network. Every system has to pass through several IT checks for compliancy. I know - I've sold a few to local contract workers. TPM chips and fingerprint readers are not part of the requirements. Neither are smartcard readers for that matter. Webcams are off the list though. Only office workers with desktops are allowed to have them. Domain (and local) policies are set in place so the user can do their work - NOTHING (ABSOLUTELY NOTHING) ELSE! Any confidential data is stored remotely on server systems. ABSOLUTELY NO remote system has regulated data on it unless it is mandated by the state, or regulated corporation. Government workers remote in with SSL VPN with three levels of encryption that would make your head spin. And yes, there are some that work "in the field" (literally! As in "fields" plural, such as those that work for the Ministry of Natural Resources) in remote areas such as national parks workers or surveyors, where there is no cellular access. If they're a contract worker and they have no access to the intranet, they don't get access to data. For them, they either have to use dial-in access from their hotel room where there is no high-speed DSL service (forget about cable), or else secure satellite communications, of which it's very uncommon, since the government doesn't pay for it lightly, because it costs anywhere from $500-$1000 per month per linkup. Cellular remote access is still considered "untrusted" by most departments. Only trusted, RADIUS-bound WiFi hotspots are accessible too, and all of them require specific digital certificates installed on client systems. That's just a way of life. It's very secure actually. Regulated data is kept OFF computers, and the systems are locked down so tight that you can't copy text, or do a screen grab of anything, and nothing is cached locally on the drive, which of course, means passwords aren't either. If someone actually stole a laptop, it doesn't matter if they can read the drive or not, because ABSOLUTELY NO DATA is stored on it. All they'll possibly get is a Windows license, and possibly an Office license. Most work is done with online forms though, so Office isn't often required for data entry or retrieval. The user doesn't have local admin privileges whatsoever, and they have such tight locks on it that the user can't save information to the system, download programs, or even browse the web in most cases. Everything is done remotely over WAN. Very few MNR remote workers even get internet access. The majority of users that actually have remote systems (laptops or otherwise) are locked into the gov't intranet behind their 3 firewalls. Any dial-in workers connect directly to government systems, not through a dial-up ISP. Our healthcare system is similar, but privatization has made that lax. It is still regulated though, so there are still certain IT restrictions that are maintained. Web access is limited.

So when Win7 is launched, I want the biggest discount you, Microsoft, will ever give to your consumer as a form of apology to people like me, the Windows Vista Ultimate users. I feel like I've been conned.

@subzero I can't believe people still have the temerity to complain about Vista's hard disk usage. For crying out loud, storage is so cheap these days that you can get a terabyte for about $100.

@Waethorn - But, you still stick to your statement that those of us that work in corporate IT "suck at IT" because we have to support a broad range of real users and applications on a day to day basis. You sell the solution, possibly assit in the deployment, and move on. Yeah, maybe you come back for warranty support or to sell more "stuff". I work with many of the pre-sale and post-sale "engineers" all the time. Most of them have no idea what it is like in the real world. I'll fall back on an old joke to explain this... Q- What's the difference between a Used Car Salesman and an IT Salesman? A- The Used Car Salesman knows when he is lying. --tayme