The Plot to Kill Google

Wired posts an appropriately controversial story about Google's enemies and their (separate, as it turns out) efforts to slow down the Internet goliath. Chief among these enemies, of course, is Microsoft.

Tom Barnett, assistant attorney general for antitrust at the US Department of Justice was signaling not just that the Google-Yahoo deal was dead but that the government saw Google as a potential monopolist. It was a stunning blow. Now the company, whose brand is defined by its "Don't be evil" slogan, faced the prospect of being hauled into court on an antitrust charge.

It was cause for celebration in Redmond, where Microsoft spent six months on a massive effort, costing millions of dollars, to block the Yahoo/Google deal.

High-profile legal battles aren't fought only in the courtroom. Public perceptions matter. Momentum matters. Relationships matter.

For years, Microsoft had quietly seethed as Google waltzed into a position of immense power while charming regulators and politicians with an aura of gee-whiz innocence. Even when Google hired a small team of lobbyists and took the occasional swing at Redmond, the company's feel-good reputation remained intact.

"Google has badly misjudged how it is perceived," Microsoft advisor Michael Kassan reassured John Kelly, Microsoft's head of strategic relations. "We have a clear and easy story to tell."

It went like this: Google had 70 percent of the search advertising business, and Yahoo had 20 percent. Now those two companies were proposing a business deal. That would give advertisers less leverage to negotiate ad rates, and they would end up paying more.

Google's staff learned of a 94-page document titled "Google Data Collection and Retention," that had been circulating around Washington. The treatise listed all the ways that Google hoards user information. Google Checkout remembers credit card numbers. Gmail reads private email. Blogger saves draft posts. As one annotation on the document helpfully notes, Google's privacy policy "gives Google the right to retain personal information over the wishes of a user." Overall, Google is painted as a Big Brother with an insatiable desire for private data.

Traditionally, Google has fought off powerful rivals with masterful code. It took on the established search behemoths by creating more effective software. It bested Microsoft's and Yahoo's advertising efforts by inventing an entirely new ad platform. But the war today is being fought in Washington, in the press, and perhaps even in the Justice Department again. And these aren't battles you can win with engineers and algorithms.

So. What are we to make of this? Using the EU's ongoing (and increasingly insane) attempts at curbing Microsoft's behavior as a guide, it's hard not to see Google as a monopolist now or, at the very least, as a company on the cusp of monopoly. Our digital future is too important for these issues to be ignored. And it's pretty clear that Google's cheery public face has little to do with the realities of its business practices. I use and recommend several Google services. But I certainly do have my reservations about the company. They should at least be closely examined, early and often.

Discuss this Article 84

mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 20, 2009
Ocean "Prove it. Tell us something we should not know." OK. Just this once... People inside Microsoft think you're a real knee-biter. (But don't say I told you)
shark47
on Jan 20, 2009
>>I am under NDA << "Prove it. Tell us something we should not know." :-) Mike and tayme, you guys are funny the way you keep going at each other. :-)
Lindy
on Jan 20, 2009
Otto Kernberg described malignant narcissism as a syndrome characterized by a narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), antisocial features, paranoid traits, and ego-syntonic aggression. An absence of conscience, a psychological need for power, and a sense of importance (grandiosity) are often symptomatic of Malignant Narcissism.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 20, 2009
"Should that situation change, I will let the group know." See the Windows Search Advanced Query Syntax thread where I just let the group know...
Toddimous
on Jan 20, 2009
Mike, you have lost it completely and this is why no one takes you serious on other subjects. 1. Scooter Libby was not convicted, or charged of treason and was not the leak. ( The leak was Robert Novak and has been confirmed by the special prosecutors office. You failed to mention that little detail.) There was no treason involved, just lying under oath and he deserved to get indicted and convicted. 2. Selling pardons through your Wife and Brother in Law is treasonous and corrupt. Now lets get back on topic because you are losing this one bud.
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 20, 2009
Todd Here's a final clue for you The criminal part happens when a person who obtains information they're entitled to due to their security clearance (Say, "Scooter" Libby) gives classified information (say the identity of a covert CIA operative) to a person who is NOT entitled to that information (Say a reporter)
Toddimous
on Jan 20, 2009
Mike, final clue for you Scooter Libby was not tried or convicted on treason, sharing secrets ect. He was convicted for lying to the FBI about a private conversation he had. You are the one with no clue. He was also not Robert Novak's source, so stop misrepresenting what actually happened. You keep bringing up Bush, but my comment was not about him. It was about how ridiculous using Clinton as a example of honesty in a analogy was in the first place. I am not a Bush supporter or defender so stop trying to equate me as such. I am however smart enough to figure out there is no such thing as a honest politician. In your deluded world, I guess you just can not accept that can you?
tayme
on Jan 20, 2009
@shark - The things you quoted didn't involve me, that was our friend Ocean...but, I am going to miss mikegalos, if for no reason other than his entertainment value. --tayme
tayme
on Jan 20, 2009
@mikegalos - One for the road. "Stave[SIC] 3: We don't dwell on the past" - It was Obama himself saying that. For the record, I do totally agree with him that nobody is above the law, though. We'll keep that in mind as we "move forward" through the next 4 years. http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2009/01/61177294/1 --tayme
shark47
on Jan 20, 2009
"@shark - The things you quoted didn't involve me, that was our friend Ocean...but, I am going to miss mikegalos, if for no reason other than his entertainment value." Oh yes, I didn't mean to club them together. I thought that comment from Ocean was funny.
robertsjoe
on Jan 20, 2009
"Mike, you have lost it completely and this is why no one takes you serious on other subjects." That is true. Also why The Phony isn't taken seriously either, even as much as he'd love to be (like more serious and respected tech bloggers).
chuckb84
on Jan 20, 2009
" And it's pretty clear that Google's cheery public face has little to do with the realities of its business practices" Examples please. There is always a lot of ranting here about sinister evil Google, with an implied "if you only knew what I know". Yah? So, what do you know? Microsoft is a convicted illegal monopoly, still being regularly fined $1B+ by the EU because Microsoft is too dumb to take the hint and change business practices. But Google? A company that has succeeded by making a product that people like because it is technically superior to the competition. Yah, that's just awful. And so what is Microsoft up to now? This, "Google has badly misjudged how it is perceived," Microsoft advisor Michael Kassan reassured John Kelly, Microsoft's head of strategic relations. "We have a clear and easy story to tell." Yep, that's Microsoft. If you can't win on merit, start a whispering campaign and see how FUD+money will do when facts fail. How do any of you defend this company?
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 20, 2009
Chuck Google has succeeded by making an ad system that sells information about their users to advertisers So are you saying that somebody selling their information is "a product that people like because it's technically superior"?
robertsjoe
on Jan 20, 2009
Google succeeded by making an excellent (and far superior) search engine. Remember Alta Vista? Google killing them had nothing to do with ads. People were getting excellent results. Where was Microsoft at the time? Oh yeah, still worrying about Office on the desktop. Google is still the best search engine out there. Ads came later. Don't make up history. Mike, I know it's you and The Phony love doing, but it's not kosher.
subzerohitman721
on Jan 20, 2009
This has to be one of the most hilarious responses I've seen to an article. Everyone seems content to dogpile on Microsoft, but oh my God! Not Google, please not Google. I think you guys for got one thing. Google is a corporation, just like Microsoft, Apple, Intel, AMD, etc. A lot of people could have said that Microsoft suceeded by making excellent and far superior products. Apple wasn't suceeding in the 1990's. Neither did Netscape. Personally, I still use Yahoo. I still think its the better search engine in my opinion. Sometimes Google isn't as accurate with search in my uses of it's search engine. It's just as bad as Live Search at times. Sometimes its spot on. I think a lot of you missed the point. Here's the part of the article that should be troubling for all of you. Google's staff learned of a 94-page document titled "Google Data Collection and Retention," that had been circulating around Washington. The treatise listed all the ways that Google hoards user information. Google Checkout remembers credit card numbers. Gmail reads private email. Blogger saves draft posts. As one annotation on the document helpfully notes, Google's privacy policy "gives Google the right to retain personal information over the wishes of a user." Oh yeah, that part which might be highly illegal. Privacy laws anyone? Does anyone remember the 4th Amendment and the Due Process clause of the 14th of the U.S. Bill of Rights has been used by courts to provide basic privacy protections to our citizens? Since Google is incorporated in the United States, they are fully bound to those rules. If anything, that kind of privacy breech is more insidious than anything Microsoft ever did.
LynxMukka
on Jan 20, 2009
@ Paul The EU is underestimated and its power. The EU will probably win against Microsoft like it did last year in getting a fine from the corporation on anti-trust violations. Mind you, I wouldn't be surprised that Microsoft will continue to keep binding IE with its OS. Google are good, and to be honest, its not Google's fault for being so successful and actually realising a new way of business. But of course companies like Microsoft complain saying 'It's so unfair! We were around waaay before them, lets get em'!' So, in a way its kinda hypocritical, Microsoft like being at the top, but when they're not, they moan, and they complain to other companies that they're doing is exactly what themselves are doing.
lotsamystuff
on Jan 21, 2009
"Actually it's only unlawful to lie under oath about information pertinent to the matter at hand before the court. You'll note that President Clinton was found innocent. But, IANAL." Neither was Clinton for five years. Not because he was "found innocent", as you speciously claim, but because he cut a deal. http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/stories/01/19/clinton.lewinsky/... I was (and am, to a point) a Clinton fan. But you, "mikegalos" are the worst kind of partisan, and your willingness to bend over (or down) for Clinton is disgusting. "Now, if I were doing a review of Bill Clinton as his boss I'd say: ... Clinton seems like a great employee to me and I'd hire him back for any position he's interested in." Give me a break. If one of your employee was caught getting head from an intern in his office, you'd fire him immediately.
lotsamystuff
on Jan 21, 2009
"Obama should get out a 40oz'er and share a big fatty with Ahmadinejad and Mouse Tongue to settle their differences. Canada will supply the weed (BC has the best pot)." "waethorn's" comment should be modded out for failing to meet the "Acceptable Use Policy" of this blog, which reads in part: "This AUP is a guideline and is not an all-inclusive listing of prohibited conduct. Penton reserves the right, in its discretion, to change or modify all or any part of this AUP at any time, effective immediately upon publication of this AUP. "A third party posting may not contain or be linked to any “Objectionable Content”. Objectionable Content means any content that: " 7. ... promotes illegal activities ..." Just a suggestion.
Waethorn
on Jan 21, 2009
"A third party posting may not contain or be linked to any “Objectionable Content”." And calling IT pro's (of which you are not) a "dipsh*t" or saying STFU isn't objectionable? losta, quitcherb*tchin!
Waethorn
on Jan 21, 2009
@subzero, all: "11. Content licence from you 11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive licence to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. This licence is for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the Additional Terms of those Services. [translation: you retain copyright on anything you post, but you give them an unlimited license of use for it, forever, and they can, although are not require to, modify your content for their own purpose. Their key goal is to turn your content into an ad, but there is no mention of other uses....] 11.2 You agree that this licence includes a right for Google to make such Content available to other companies, organizations or individuals with whom Google has relationships for the provision of syndicated services, and to use such Content in connection with the provision of those services. [translation: they can take your content and give (read: sell) it to their advertising partners, INCLUDING the malware/rogueware companies that advertise through them, which aren't filtered one iota. This is extremely bad for Google Checkout users....] 11.3 You understand that Google, in performing the required technical steps to provide the Services to our users, may (a) transmit or distribute your Content over various public networks and in various media; and (b) make such changes to your Content as are necessary to conform and adapt that Content to the technical requirements of connecting networks, devices, services or media. You agree that this licence shall permit Google to take these actions. [translation: they don't guarantee that your data is secure.] 11.4 You confirm and warrant to Google that you have all the rights, power and authority necessary to grant the above licence. [translation: you've just signed your life away]" -- http://www.google.com/accounts/tos
Waethorn
on Jan 21, 2009
@all: Also, IANAL, but I talked to a friend of mine that is one. His response when I said their slogan is "Do no evil": hysterical laughter.
tayme
on Jan 21, 2009
@Waethorn - That is not so different from Microsoft's TOU, items 9 and 10. The difference being that with Google, you grant them the permission...with Microsoft, you are granting everybody the permission. 9. Your Materials. You may be able to submit materials for use in connection with the service. The service includes publicly accessible areas ("public areas of the service") and areas to which you can control access by others ("shared and private areas of the service"). You understand that Microsoft does not control or endorse the content that you and others post or provide on the service. Except for material that we license to you, we do not claim ownership of the materials you post or provide on the service. However, with respect to content you post or provide you grant to those members of the public to whom you have granted access (for content posted on shared and private areas of the service) or to the public (for content posted on public areas of the service) free, unlimited, worldwide, nonexclusive and perpetual permission to: use, modify, copy, distribute and display the content in connection with the service and other Microsoft products and services; publish your name in connection with the content; and grant these rights to others. You understand that Microsoft may need to make copies, change the format, transcode or otherwise process content posted on the service, including on shared and private areas of the service, in order to: store and retrieve the content; make the content available to you and those members of the public to whom you have granted access; conform to connecting networks' technical requirements; or conform to the limitations and terms of the service. This section applies only to legally permissible content and only to the extent that use and publishing of the legally permissible content does not breach the law. You understand that sharing content that violates others' copyrights and other intellectual property rights violates this contract. You represent and warrant that you have all the rights necessary for you to grant the rights in this section 9 and that the use and publication of the content does not breach any law. We will not pay you for your content. We may refuse to publish your content and may remove your content from the service at any time. 10. Privacy. In order to operate and provide the service, we collect certain information about you. We use and protect that information as described in the http://privacy.microsoft.com. In particular, we may access or disclose information about you, including the content of your communications, in order to: (a) comply with the law or respond to lawful requests or legal process; (b) protect the rights or property of Microsoft or our customers, including the enforcement of our agreements or policies governing your use of the service; or (c) act on a good faith belief that such access or disclosure is necessary to protect the personal safety of Microsoft employees, customers or the public. The service is a private computer network that Microsoft operates for the benefit of itself and its customers. Microsoft retains the right to block or otherwise prevent delivery of any type of email or other communication to or from the service as part of our efforts to protect the service, protect our customers or stop you from breaching this contract. The technology or other means we use may hinder or break your use of the service. In order to provide you the service, we may collect certain information about service performance, your machine and your service use. We may automatically upload this information from your machine. This data will not personally identify you. You may read about this information collection in more detail in the privacy policy at http://privacy.microsoft.com. Personal information collected through the service may be stored and processed in the United States or any other country in which Microsoft or its affiliates, subsidiaries or agents maintain facilities. By using the service, you consent to any such transfer of information outside of your country. Microsoft abides by the safe harbor framework as set forth by the U.S. Department of Commerce regarding the collection, use and retention of data from the European Union. http://help.live.com/help.aspx?project=searchtou&market=en-us --tayme
lotsamystuff
on Jan 21, 2009
"Their key goal is to turn your content into an ad, but there is no mention of other uses." WRONG. They are limited thusly: "This licence is for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the Services" Also, "waethorn", Google (or anyone else) cannot enforce an illegal contract, so if they try to go beyond that very narrow definition, or attempt to circumvent existing copyright laws for whatever purpose, they'll be quickly slapped down in court no matter what the agreement says.
chuckb84
on Jan 21, 2009
Mike, You do sophistry very well. You also are pretty good technically. You're better when the dialogue is based on the later. On this, "Google has succeeded by making an ad system that sells information about their users to advertisers So are you saying that somebody selling their information is "a product that people like because it's technically superior"?" I meant just what I said. Google has, for my use, the best search engine in the world, period. When/if a better comes out I will drop Google like a hot rock. Hell, if MICROSOFT came out with a better search engine, I would use it. I may be wrong about this (and would be interested in being corrected if I am) but I believe Google does not "sell information about their users to advertisers". Rather, they know my search history and map links I'll probably click onto my page when I do subsequent searches. That's totally different, because google is linking advertisers to ME, not selling my info to multiple advertisers. The info remains in one place, not sold to multiple sources. At least, that's my understanding of what they do. A fair critique of Google is that I am not SURE of how they work. More transparency would be good. All that said, the bottom line is still simple and a matter of record: Google has no history of illegal business practices. Microsoft does and is still in court and paying fines for that behavior.
deepfry
on Jan 21, 2009
So you guys are all okay with Google saving all of your private information - every piece of information you've ever given to them (i.e. every single search term, every email you've sent/received to your gmail account, etc. etc.), and letting them do whatever they want with it? Does no one remember the kerfuffle (sp?) around the EULA for Chrome - which was reported to be the standard Google EULA that was copied and pasted into the Chrome install? (full disclosure: I use and enjoy Chrome, and I do most of my searches with Google. I'm just not under any kind of delusion that they are not using every piece of data I give them to earn as much money as possible)
chuckb84
on Jan 21, 2009
@deepfry "(full disclosure: I use and enjoy Chrome, and I do most of my searches with Google. I'm just not under any kind of delusion that they are not using every piece of data I give them to earn as much money as possible)" Of course they are. But it is a bargain you make with them knowingly. They deliver something really useful to me and make money. There's no evidence to date that the company is nefarious, just profitable and successful. This is what tweaks Paul so much, because he has no stake in google's success, but lives or dies on the success of Microsoft.
shark47
on Jan 21, 2009
I think what a lot of people here are trying to say is that Microsoft was convicted of abusing its monopoly, so none of Microsoft's competitors should be investigated even if they do break the law. Here's an example: "All that said, the bottom line is still simple and a matter of record: Google has no history of illegal business practices. Microsoft does and is still in court and paying fines for that behavior." :-)
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 21, 2009
chuckb Google does not sell searching. They sell you. The don't sell to you. They sell you to advertisers. They get that business because they can sell targeting information about you from all the information they gather about you. Saying Google is in the search business is like saying NBC is in the entertainment business or Starbucks is a well known WiFi hosting company or Microsoft runs a bus system in Seattle. They may do it but that isn't what makes them money. (still not a pumpkin for another couple of hours)
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 21, 2009
shark "I think what a lot of people here are trying to say is that Microsoft was convicted of abusing its monopoly, " And I'll bet a fair amount that not one of the could name what "evil practices" Microsoft did that they're so shocked about. Here's one as an example. Microsoft offered a discount to OEMs if they limited the amount of crapware that got bundled with new computers. OEMs were (and are) making a little extra money by bundling lots of demos and crippleware with their computers. This cluttered up the screen and made using a new computer less useful. Microsoft thought this sucked for the users and hurt the Windows experience. They also knew that the OEMs needed the extra revenue and that a few items were probably reasonable. They offered a small discount to OEMs that limited the number of extra icons on the desktop and the start menu. The courts found this was unfair to the crapware vendors and hurt the OEMs that loaded down their systems with garbage. And that's why it's hard to buy a new computer without a ton of useless stuff added in these days. So. Who here thinks the court's decision was better for the consumer? (Still not a pumpkin)
mikegalos@msn.com
on Jan 21, 2009
Wae "His response when I said their slogan is "Do no evil": hysterical laughter." Actually, they're apparently fine with doing evil, the slogan is "Don't BE evil" so I guess you can do lots of evil as long as it doesn't change who you are... :-)
WebGuy3000
on Jan 21, 2009
"They get that business because they can sell targeting information about you from all the information they gather about you." Based on my understanding of how Google Ads work, this is incorrect. Google does not sell your personal information to advertisers. I serves up targeted ads to you on behalf of its advertisers. My company is a Google ads client and God knows they don't supply us with any personal information about individuals. Can you cite an example of Google selling information about individuals to advertisers? I'm curious.
DRWAM
on Jan 21, 2009
MS makes the majority of it's money selling products. I got to agree with some of these posts that Google makes most of thier money or a great portion, selling me. MS has got to be monitored closely, I suppose, such as by the EU, which would make them less inclined to do something objectional. What's stopping Google?
WebGuy3000
on Jan 21, 2009
In case anyone didn't know, you can opt out of the google ad network cookie tracking here: http://www.google.com/privacy_ads.html There's also lots of info there about what google does and doesn't do with your personal info.
lotsamystuff
on Jan 21, 2009
"In case anyone didn't know, you can opt out of the google ad network cookie tracking here: www.google.com/privacy_ads.html There's also lots of info there about what google does and doesn't do with your personal info." It's not that they don't KNOW "WebGuy", it's that they don't CARE. The WinJihadists are on a mission to demonize Google because they're so insecure about the way poor Microsoft has supposedly been demonized over the years.

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