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An upgrade is an upgrade. Apparently some people are easily confused

Apr. 15, 2008 Paul Thurrott | Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows

Microsoft US Senior Manager of Small Business Community Engagement Eric Ligman addresses the recent controversy over whether its possible and/or legal to use Windows Vista Upgrade media to perform a full, clean install of the OS if you don't already own a qualifying product. And he's not too happy about it.

It seems that there are some people out there who don’t quite get the concept of an upgrade.  Some have even written articles fully articulating how little they know.  Because of this, I am going to explain it again and even use pictures to try to make this very simple…

You can buy a software full license that gets you the rights to install and run the software. You can buy a software upgrade license that allows you to upgrade from the full license you have to the upgraded product you purchased the upgrade for.

If you see anyone stating, or writing, that buying an upgrade by itself (Windows Vista Upgrade for instance) without having a full license first gets you the rights to run the software, just realize that what the person is actually stating is, “I clearly have no clue what I am talking about and so I am writing a bunch of gibberish that proves this hoping people will think I have a clue, even though I obviously don’t.”

If they continue to tell you that, “But I can get it to physically install, so it must be legal,” this further shows their complete lack of comprehension. Just because something will install does not make it legal. For example, a pirated piece of software will (usually) physically install; however, running pirated software is 100% illegal (and who knows what else it will install on or do to your computer). If you don’t believe me, try calling 888-NO-PIRACY and letting them know that you are running pirated software throughout your company. Explain to them that you feel it is legal to do so because you got it to physically install, so it must be legal and ask if they would mind auditing your company to verify the legality of this. Let me know how that turns out for you.

Yikes. As we used to say, "Somebody needs a hug!"

BTW, the pictures he uses in the post are both humorous and useful.

Related: Thank God for Ed Bott. Seriously.

Discuss this Article 9

joe-dokes
on Apr 15, 2008
Really, Microsoft has no one to blame but itself for this fiasco. Let's see, take a plane load of computer users, what's the probability that any two of them paid the same price for Windows? Or better yet do they understand that they paid for Windows at all? I mean really. You can buy the boxed version of Vista which has the following skus: Ultimate, Business Pro Uber, Business, Home Super Duper, and Home quite Sucky that no one really wants but we put it out so that we can argue with a straight face that we didn't raise prices. Then there are the upgrade prices. Which are lower, but hey since 95+ percent of all computer come with Window pre installed wouldn't MS be better off just biting the bullet and selling ALL versions as full versions at the current upgrade price? I mean really how much f-ing revenue are we talking about? A few million per quarter? Then there is OEM pricing, which you can get from some discount sources but you have to do your own trouble shooting. As though MS customer support is so good that anyone actually calls them? Finally, the cheapest and LEGAL alternative is to install the program entirely illegally and then ask MS to make you legal. I mean really WTF. Great way to screw over your customers. Give the best deal to the moron who stole your software in the first place. Microsoft creates the most complicated, idiotic pricing system in the world and then wonders why people actually have confusion about how to buy their product. C'mon Waethorn, tell me I'm wrong. Regards Joe Dokes
Waethorn
on Apr 15, 2008
"Waethorn, tell me I'm wrong" you're wrong - to think you know what you're talking about. "You can buy the boxed version of Vista which has the following skus: Ultimate, Business Pro Uber, Business, Home Super Duper, and Home quite Sucky that no one really wants but we put it out so that we can argue with a straight face that we didn't raise prices." that's the reason. "since 95+ percent of all computer come with Window pre installed wouldn't MS be better off just biting the bullet and selling ALL versions as full versions at the current upgrade price?" ....because retail versions include support. OEM copies don't, at least, not from Microsoft - from the system builder/manufacturer only. "Then there is OEM pricing, which you can get from some discount sources but you have to do your own trouble shooting. " wrong! much the upgrade subject of the article, it's not legal to buy OEM copies, unless you are, in fact, an OEM, and then, you are only allowed to buy them to preinstall on a new computer, FOR RESALE. "Finally, the cheapest and LEGAL alternative is to install the program entirely illegally and then ask MS to make you legal. I mean really WTF. Great way to screw over your customers." you should really read the fine print on that one - you have to make a formal piracy report on the place where you bought it from. you figure you can just lie about some fake place you made up? when local authorities get involved in the investigation, they have the, um, authority, to turn around and charge you with fraud. so good luck on those endeavours. "Microsoft creates the most complicated, idiotic pricing system in the world " only idiots can't figure it out. the Vista Capable lawsuits are proof of that.
joe-dokes
on Apr 16, 2008
No the pricing system is idiotic. You never really address that fact. MS has created so many different paths to get Vista that consumers are not only confused, but they are also trying to get a reasonable deal. The whole distinction between the various skus of Vista was done for two reasons none of which has anything to do with either technology or the customer. First they created the different skus to give the illusion that prices for Vista were not any higher than they were for XP. Second they created the different skus in a lame attempt to continue the growth in profits. This second reason is particularly galling when one considers that MS's profits on Windows is around 80%. Only companies with monopoly power can have those types of profit margins. Further, As I recall you build your own systems, correct? You also sell your systems, correct? This would make you an OEM. Now tell me which version of Vista do you run on YOUR machine? The one you built yourself and use as your own personal computer. Legally you should be buying the uber vista ultimate crap at a whopping 399.00. But I would be willing to bet that you pay substantially less. regards Joe Dokes
Waethorn
on Apr 16, 2008
"First they created the different skus to give the illusion that prices for Vista were not any higher than they were for XP" Vista Home Premium sells for LESS than XP Media Center did, sorry to say, just as Vista Home Basic sells for less than XP Home Edition. Ditto fo Vista Business vs. XP Pro. There is no "Ultimate" version of XP, since Pro doesn't include Media Center. "Now tell me which version of Vista do you run on YOUR machine? The one you built yourself and use as your own personal computer." Why would I pay OEM licensing prices when the Action Pack is designed for resellers and system builders. I pay a subscription fee every year for that too. Last year, they even changed it to include full licenses over the previous licensing which was upgrades only (so that meant you had to have an OEM license of the previous product before upgrading). "Legally you should be buying the uber vista ultimate crap at a whopping 399.00." WRONG! See above. "But I would be willing to bet that you pay substantially less." I wouldn't bet you because you're right (for once). April's Action Pack update includes a single license of Vista Ultimate for demonstration & testing purposes too. System Builders and resellers pay less for licensing via the Action Pack, because they're already making money for Microsoft by selling product. BTW: don't try to argue licensing with a Microsoft partner - you'll never win.
mbrose
on Apr 16, 2008
Those pictures made me laugh until I almost fell out of my chair. Thanks Paul!
joe-dokes
on Apr 16, 2008
Waethorn, Once again you are proving my point. By your lengthy discussion about how you are the uber Windows installer, OEM whatever, you have clearly stated that the only way to get a decent deal on on Windows and be completely legal is to be an OEM. Thanks. Comparing media center to Vista Home premium is a non sequitur since they never released media center to anyone but the OEMs, ie you couldn't buy it in a shrink wrapped box. Nice try. The fact of the matter is Vista is more expensive. As far as never winning an argument with you, I don't even try. In your mind you've never lost one. regards Joe dokes
Waethorn
on Apr 16, 2008
"Comparing media center to Vista Home premium is a non sequitur since they never released media center to anyone but the OEMs" Must I point out that the majority of users buy Windows as a preinstalled product on a new computer anyways. Retail sales make up a single digit percentage of overall sales, which makes your argument a "non sequitur"....and XP Home Edition doesn't have Media Center, so you have to compare it to Vista Home Basic, which also doesn't have it. "By your lengthy discussion about how you are the uber Windows installer, OEM whatever, you have clearly stated that the only way to get a decent deal on on Windows and be completely legal is to be an OEM." Sorry but you're wrong about that, of course. The Action Pack is a subscription, meaning that if you want to keep the licenses, you have to keep paying. If you stop paying, you are no longer legally licensed. Standard OEM or retail licenses are perpetual. I'd like to see you pay $500 a year just to license 2, or maybe 3 home PC's you have. If you want to get the same license deal I get, then quit your punter job, put the money into starting up your own computer store, register as a Microsoft partner, and pay for an Action Pack. Otherwise, quitcherb1tchin'!
joe-dokes
on Apr 17, 2008
Once again Waethorn, You're proving my point, which is Windows licensing is overly complicated and far too expensive. Thanks, Joe PS, by the way I can by a perpetual license for os 10.5 for five computers for 199.99. If I want to run a server, I can license it for 499.00 for ten users and 999.00 for unlimited users. Apple simple, fair, and easy. Gee maybe MS should copy that paradigm. Oh wait they've been trying to do that for two decades but still can't.
Waethorn
on Apr 17, 2008
"If I want to run a server, I can license it for 499.00 for ten users and 999.00 for unlimited users. Apple simple, fair, and easy. Gee maybe MS should copy that paradigm." sorry, but nobody wants servers built by Fisher Price.

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