Windows 7 builds 7137 and 7201

"It takes a lot of money to hire consultants, train users, etc." I totally agree, and that is why I think most corporations will wait until all apps used by a company are 7 compatible before migrating users to 7. This is probably the biggest reason Vista was not adopted by corporations.

Actually, Lindy, given the option of using old hardware for free, then yes, I would go down that route, rather than buying new hardware. I don't have your unlimited corporate funds at my disposal. Another situation that Virtualisation has helped with recently, is in allowing one of our graphic designers to use our prehistoric, but still perfectly functioning CD printer, on a brand new workstation The CD printer is quite an expense to replace. The worksation was a necessity because of the size of projects these days, but the software accompanying the ancient printer would only just work with windows 2000. So, cue a virtual machine inside Vista x64, running a copy of win2K for using the printer. Win 7's integration into the shell would have made using the printer more straightforward. regardless, we can now continue to use the printer, until it dies of natural causes, which may be quite some time away. See, this stuff is REALLY useful for some folk. I'd even go so far as to say it's useful for quite a lot of people. Don't knock it because YOU don't see any value in it (or because you've got enough disposable income to spend on new peripherals, for that matter).

nothing new? Have you tried FTP from a console in 7100 and higher? If not, I'd check it out. You'd have something to comment about...

@gorath, let me say this XP mode, coming free with specific versions of a 7 is a good thing and I applaud MS for it. I just dont think it qualifies as a "big announcement". I think it will be used by 10% of Windows 7 computers, especially since it wont come with the home version. The "big announcement" I was looking for was something like..... *June launch as was hinted by Paul * Free upgrade to Vista users of the consumer type (excluding software insurance/enterprise customers). This I doubted but thought possibly because of the bad rep of Vista and the very low penetration of Vista. * One or two versions at the max with just a very small difference, ie can join a domain or not. XP mode is good, but not huge IMHO.

Lindy "the very low penetration of Vista" Of course you've been around here long enough to know that's a myth and that Vista's adoption rate has been faster than XP's. Why are you spreading false premises that you know aren't true?

"Free upgrade to Vista users of the consumer type (excluding software insurance/enterprise customers). This I doubted but thought possibly because of the bad rep of Vista and the very low penetration of Vista." Starting in July, royalty OEM's and System Builders will be able to offer coupons for free upgrades ala the Vista Express Upgrade program. The Windows 7 program will have a slightly different name but the upgrade paths will work in the same way. AFAIK, only Home Premium, Business, and Ultimate will have free upgrade paths. Enterprise already has an upgrade path because in order to get Enterprise, you have to get SA, and SA includes upgrade rights already. Also AFAIK, Vista Home Basic won't have an upgrade path, probably because 7 Home Basic is designed for developing countries, and Starter->Starter won't be available because of the reverse of that. I would imagine that Microsoft will offer retail buyers some kind of coupon, or else an online upgrade form if they purchase Vista after a certain date as well - possibly the same date as for OEM's/SB's. "One or two versions at the max with just a very small difference, ie can join a domain or not." Home Premium and Professional. That's what most buyers will see. Pro has domain join. Home Premium doesn't. There are other differences as well. Home users should look for Home Premium. Small businesses and enthusiasts should buy Professional. Pro is a total superset of Home Premium with no features missing. That was all true with XP, so you should be familiar with that concept already. What you won't find is a specific "Media Center Edition" available preloaded on consumer PC's though, so it's actually a bit simpler that way. You won't see Home Basic in North America, and Starter will only be on very limited hardware. Ditto for Ultimate, but "limited" meaning very few systems. Enterprise is just "Ultimate for SA customers". Why they differentiate the name for different purchasing channels is a decision left to marketing. I don't think calling a retail product "Enterprise" or a business SKU "Ultimate" really fits though, so I guess that's one way to look at it. They wanted to keep a similar naming scheme to Windows Vista also. One question that I know people have been asking is whether or not the retail packaging would include both 32-bit and 64-bit discs for all versions (namely Home Premium and Pro). I would like to see that happen. You could argue that Vista retail purchasers probably weren't the most savvy users in the first place, so avoiding any potential confusion or 64-bit compatibility issues with older hardware that didn't ship with Vista was probably a good idea for those buyers. Whatever. Retail buyers make up such a small percentage of overall buyers that it probably won't matter anyway. @johnbaxter: What kind of ethernet controller is it?

"@gorath, let me say this XP mode, coming free with specific versions of a 7 is a good thing and I applaud MS for it. I just dont think it qualifies as a "big announcement". " I agree with that. It's good, but not "big".

@johnbaxter Cheers for the help, I'll give your advice a crack tomorrow to see if that resolves my problem : ) I do think it's the same problem you have because I remember doing a clean install of WIndows 7 and having no problems with sleep/hibernation but after doing a Windows Update, the problem appears. I'll see how it turns out tomorrow

gorath, "ChuckB, Sadly, no, you can't have different wallpaper on different monitors - at least not directly from windows. Nvidia drivers allow you to choose a different wallpaper image per monitors, and I'm pretty sure ATI does as well - but the functionality is not actualy built into windows itself. This has been a curious omission from windows since as far back as there's been wallpaper images. Another curiosity is that you can't make the taskbar span across multiple monitors." Huh. Macs have done that multiple wallpapers forever and I'm quite surprised at the absence in Windows, especially in Windows 7. As you say, it just isn't that hard to implement. To my great annoyance, and analogous to the Taskbar issue, you can't replicate or extend the Mac single menu bar across multiple monitors. It's the only reason I know that favors the "menu in a window" approach of Windows, but that cure is (IMHO) worse than the disease. (See Togg on the Fitt's law aspects of menubar positioning.) I think the "menu bar only on the main monitor" is an example of too much of Apple's sometimes obsessive minimalism. Like the one-button mouse this UI decision made sense once, but doesn't anymore.

"Huh. Macs have done that multiple wallpapers forever and I'm quite surprised at the absence in Windows..." Ooooh, condescending. Reminds me of the Mac guy in the Mac ads.

@hamilton I disagree with Paul's statement. "The "big surprise" I mentioned earlier was XP Mode. People try to downplay this, but a fully licensed copy of XP that you get for free with Windows 7 is indeed a big deal, as is the compatibility effects of that inclusion." I also think that less than 10% of 7 users will ever use XP mode. Could I be wrong sure. However even Paul has said this it targeted towards business owners that have business apps that wont run on 7. I agree with that statement, and would take it even further. It will be used by smaller business owners that dont have the resources to replace a app they use at work. Larger corporations will probably throw their resources into either updating apps (home grown) or replacing apps (shrink wrap) with versions that will work with 7 rather than use XP mode. So I think XP mode while good DOES NOT = big surprise.

shark, ""Huh. Macs have done that multiple wallpapers forever and I'm quite surprised at the absence in Windows..." Ooooh, condescending. Reminds me of the Mac guy in the Mac ads." Actually, not. If you want to see condescending, go check some of the other threads. That was genuine. Windows does surprise me sometimes, there are things I take for granted that are absent, and I'm sure you feel the same about Macs. It isn't a big deal, and with all the other cosmetic stuff/eye candy in Win 7, I'm surprised they didn't implement this. Not flaming, not condescending, not saying it's a big deal, just surprised.

@miguelgalos@ "Why are you spreading false premises that you know aren't true?" This has to be the funniest line of the week. This from the Borg-fanboi himself, it's quite amusing. You're a legend for spreading false premises and outright lies.

@hamilton the only big deal is your reading comprehension. I have stayed on message. I am still waiting for a "Big Announcement" from Paul about Windows 7. Perhaps I could suggest www.rif.org It will help you down the road.

Lindy So, in other words you know the adoption rate of Vista is better than the adoption rate of XP. (Otherwise why would you ask for numbers and then explain why you wouldn't accept even the specific numbers you ask for. It's pretty silly to say the equivalent of "I was right about the adoption rate and you're wrong about the adoption rate and I wasn't lying and besides, adoption rate doesn't matter so even if you can prove it, it's not true." Kind of like you didn't expect anyone to call you on it. Sad.

Lindy, A June launch for Windows 7 is absolutely impractical for a number of reasons. You being in the IT business should understand especially considering how shaky Windows Vista development was, that it is essential to Microsoft's business that Windows 7 has to be one of its highest quality OSes. It is impractical because as Paul and other places have noted, there are still builds and fine tuning of the OS code is still taking place. Also, almost 99 percent of folks are going to want a physical DVD. Once the RTM is mastered, it is going to take months of burning those DVD's, packaging, server setups for Windows Genuine Advantage, and of course shipping the product. However, I also suspect that Microsoft is working right now on the marketing. "Wow is now" was a complete and total bust. So, they need a proper marketing strategy not only to sell to the XP stallwarts, but I suspect that Microsoft is probably working to get Mac users to buy Windows 7. Since you guys can use bootcamp to run Windows 7, its an easy sell if it works with Mac's existing hardware. I'm sure a lot of Mac users would like to play the latest PC games or take advantage of Windows specific software. So if I'm Microsoft execs, I'd really want to analyse both the ineffective and effective advertising. Also, I consider hiring a new advertising company just for Windows 7. Also we have a predictable pattern of launches of Windows in a large scale. Launches tend to happen in a pattern that's been fairly consistent. So I wasn't expecting anything like that. However, as impractical of a "free Windows 7" for Vista users, I'd really like them to give a discount for Windows Vista Ultimate users. Microsoft really shafted those users with the very lame ultimate extras. There was so much that could have been done, but ultimately was never done. If anything, those are the guys who really need to be compensated. I'm just hoping for some sort of 2 pack licensing deal to make it easy for folks. Similar to the Microsoft Office Home and Student Edition two licensing deal. Also, I hope Microsoft will step away from the $399 and $299 price points. Those are just really high especially in this economy. It would be in their best interest to have a special launch price to get everyone onboard.

What? You don't have multi-machine licenses with Windows? Macs have had it forever.

"Can I nominate the US Government as being the worst?" Yes, yes you can. I feel dirty for agreeing with rj... Let me take a shower and rinse off the grime. Of course, it isn't much different than any of the other governments around the world. Slow, bloated, costs too much, and boring.

Wow...I haven't missed anything here by being gone yesterday...same old trolls on both sides of the knuckleheaded "OS War" spewing thier sycophantic drivel in order to impress Balmer and Jobs...the only thing is that they are sitting back laughing at all of you....just like I am! --tayme

tayme, Comparing and contrasting two operating systems that can technically run on the same platform and trying to determine which one is the best suited for your needs isn't "sycophantic drivel." It what we technology enthusiast do. Its fair and right to have a healthy discussion of Windows 7 vs OS-X "SnowLeopard." I think its kind of sad and disappointing that you've allowed the genuine trolls to effect you in such a way that any Windows vs OS-X discussion is rendered as pointless. There are very obvious and technical merits to such a debate. From games, information, system performance, security, and many areas, this is an important debate for consumers and enthusiasts to make. Did I make fun of Apple in any of my commentary? No. I'm equally as harsh on Microsoft as I am to Apple. To compare, contrast, and analyse Windows 7 and OS-X "SnowLeopard", since we're about to have two brand new versions of this operating system makes logical and complete sense. I would recommend that you think clearly about your statements and not dismiss healthy discourse and debate. None of us who are true technology enthusiasts, are going to shy away from these arguments. What would be helpful from you, is going after the extremists and the trolls on this forum. But to carte blanche dismiss any and all debate, isn't a very smart or intelligent addition to the discussion. IMO.

"It's funny that even the worst US Government is orders of magnitude better than the best Governments in many countries. Of course, the US is responsible for bringing some of these Governments into power." Does the devil do his own dirty work, or does he get his evil minions to do it for him?

@shark - Of course there are many great scenarios for Windows outside the enterprise. I am just saying that its true advantage over OS X is in the enterprise. Other than the price of a Mac and the amount of malware targeting Windows because of its dominance, both are fairly equal for the basic home user. On the other hand, Unix, Linux, and zOS have major advantages in many areas in the enterprise. Not everything is as black and white as some like to make it out to be. Companies and consumers alike need to look at the cost/value of a system for their needs and wants. not every person or company will arrive at the same answer every time...and that is great. Some people here cannot accept that. --tayme

Shark, I'm really talking about perceptions. Microsoft could do something bold and it would put Apple on the defensive, something I think most here would like. Oddly, I'd like it to, because a robust competition would be a good thing. subzero, Yah, I think this discussion has been substantive and civil, certainly compared to the usual devolution that takes place. You've been reasonable and I said something about Apple's "obsessive minimalism", which is their corporate DNA issue, just as excessive featurism seems embedded in Microsoft. Among other things, some tension between those views is inevitable and could lead to improvements in both product lines.