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The Zune team has posted a number of videos describing new features of the Zune platform to MSN Soapbox.
Discuss this Article 31
So I think the Zune is well done and wanted to check it out... but...
"Your browser or operating system is not supported"
If you would like to continue anyway, click the button below.
Continue to MSN Video
We recommend the following browsers:
Internet Explorer 6 or 7 and FireFox 2.x on Windows XP SP2
Internet Explorer 7 and FireFox 2.x on Windows Vista
FireFox 2.x on Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger"
OKAY NOW, Mike and the gang. Which is worse? Mobile Me's warning for a service that used to be mac-only... or this for MSN Video which I would think has a far broader userbase? Come on people. I'm going to framegrab this and link to it every time that ridiculous discussion crops up (or the even more ridiculous charge of monopoly by Apple). Oh... and, btw... the site seems to work fine anyway.
Oh, come on John,
You know the objection wasn't "Apple doesn't support every browser" it was "Apple is covering up their lack of support by lying about their competitor's product"
Now, if this had said, "We don't support lame, insecure browser like Safari. Go get something reasonable." maybe you'd have a point (well, maybe about "lame" but less so about "insecure")
mikegalos@msn.com said:
"You know the objection wasn't "Apple doesn't support every browser" it was "Apple is covering up their lack of support by lying about their competitor's product""
Lying how, exactly? I'm just curious.
Now, if this had said, "We don't support lame, insecure browser like Safari. Go get something reasonable." maybe you'd have a point (well, maybe about "lame" but less so about "insecure")
But the funny thing is it does support Safari. It works fine, if you just change the user agent. So why block it?
John,
LOL. That's ludicrous. IE is used by 75 percent of Web users and Apple doesn't support it. Not only that, they toss in a cute remark about its lack of Web standards support.
MSN Soapbox, meanwhile, works on about 95 percent of Web browsers. So what are you using that's not supported? Safari? Chrome? Please. It's not the same thing at all, but the fact that you'll be hoarding a screenshot of this, that you give Apple a pass on their sassy error message, and also take obviously fake umbrage at this.says a lot about your very biased worldview.
All that said, I do think Soapbox should be more browser agnostic. But you can communicate that without being as biased as Fox News.
"But you can communicate that without being as biased as Fox News."
You can add MSNBC to that if you really want to be unbiased.
So I've considered the Zune one of the best also-ran players for a while, but I've got to say, I'm impressed with what they're showing with this new hardware...it might be just the excuse I've been looking for to actually check it out. Fortunately, I use amazon for music purchases rather than iTunes, so making a switch would be easy if I liked what I saw. I wonder when it'll be hands-on at Best Buy...
"You can add MSNBC to that if you really want to be unbiased."
Actually, NBC and the 3 major broadcast networks have been left leaning for years. Just today, I heard Tom Brokaw refer to Governor Palin as a "Homecoming Queen" and "Sassy Woman". This is sexism at its worst. I would think that the liberals, especially the NOW would take offense...
Paul - you used to have decent sites, that allowed for good exchange of ideas and even a little fun. But your recent temper tantrums and locking of message boards as soon as somebody says something that you disagree with has ruined that.
--tayme
The videos suggest that you go check out this new software, but it doesn't appear to be available yet. Any word on when they are publishing it?
systemwolf
Apparently everything was supposed to go live with the announcement on the 16th. The Fry's screw up kind of killed that.
Wow. So much to cover.
First, Zune. Very nice. Looks good and becoming a viable alternative to the iPod. Now there's enough strengths and weaknesses to make something happen.
John: Seriously. Decaf! How is it logical to support a browser that has 6 percent of the world's browsing market? That would be like supporting the most unprofitable non drug product in a store for the one person that might actually use it. Sorry, the browser wars are heating up and harsh decisions have to be made. Its a business and supporting Safari isn't as important. According to NVD(National Vulnerability Database), Apple OS-X was the number 1 and 2 most vulnerable OS (10.5 and 10.4, respectively). Many of them vulnerabilities were Safari specific. So why does Microsoft want to risk their networks on insecure browsers? I.E 7 has done a much better job than Safari and the stats prove it. You can attack back about the history of I.E, but seriously. We're talking about today. Things have changed. Seriously, get Firefox man. You're just asking for your system to be compromised.
tayme - Paul's patience has been exemplary and almost Jedi like. Infact I'm glad he started locking down these boards. Too many people say a lot of BS and personal attacks without end. Something had to give. Personally, I would have preferred moderated boards but its Paul's call, not mine. Maybe if they'd get Lindy, John, Dave, Ocean, and the rest of the gang to chill with the personal attacks, trolling, and stop the F.U.D. barrage, the lockdown extremes wouldn't have to be implemented.
Paul - Damn! You slapped him down like a redheaded stepchild. Its about time.
"People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids?...It’s just not right. It’s not right. It’s not, it’s not going to change anything. We’ll, we’ll get our justice....Please, we can get along here. We all can get along. I mean, we’re all stuck here for a while. Let’s try to work it out. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to work it out." - Rodney King, 5/1/1992.
@Paul,
First, I happen to agree that Apple is bucking the market by trying to move users off of IE with it's me.com site. It's called strategy. It may be a bad strategy that may frustrate users. Or it may help drive standards-based browser adoption. Or maybe it's just prioritization and mismanagement. Prior to the launch of MobileMe, the service was Mac-only. Maybe they couldn't do the shims and hacks needed to make everything run well in IE7 in time. Sorry they actually gave an explanation for what IE7 might cause if you proceeded to use it anyway. If you think it's a lie, then demonstrate it. Prove it. IE7 is inferior in it's standards support. That's the core premise for the focus of IE8 is it not?
Oh, and I guess the "sass" in Microsoft's photosynth site regarding them "not being cool enough" to work on the mac doesn't count for anything. Who's giving who a pass, here, paul?
I certainly don't give Apple a "pass". But I do recognize what this is. Microsoft has the luxury of rolling out their browsers as part of Windows on every PC sold. Google will have a similar advantage with Chrome, being the #1 search engine. Competitors like Apple are fundamentally at a disadvantage. Why can't they leverage their stuff the way MS does?
It's the same tactic that Microsoft is using to drive Silverlight adoption. Why not just use flash? Flash has more marketshare in the market than IE does. But Microsoft has a strategy and they are leveraging their assets to drive adoption. You don't seem to have a problem with that.
I happen to think this is good. Silverlight seems to be pretty compelling and I welcome the competition. And Adobe monopoly is no better for us than a Microsoft one. And, as I said, I think the Zune is a very good product (though an bad strategy for a platform company since it's bifurcating the not-an-ipod market with no competitive gains against the iPod).
Again, just because I'm an Apple fan, doesn't invalidate every single thing I say about the subject.
It's not my fault that many of your anti-Apple/Apple User rants have been built on personal bias (and bitterness) and faulty logic. Don't call people liars without strong support for the claim. Better yet, don't make sweeping generalizations about the character of fellow human beings based on corporate marketing. It's nuts.
Go ahead and try to smear me with your Fox News comparison. I think my views are strong but fair. I give credit where credit is due (like with Zune or Xbox Live or silverlight, etc). At least I'm not saying you're a "bad person" or part of a "cabal" for being an obvious booster for Microsoft with clear financial incentives to do so. That makes you a businessman, not a "bad person". It's a shame you can't afford people whose views are different from yours the same degree of civility and respect. I've had very civil email exchanges with many of the users on this site, including Mike Galos. I respect Mike and his knowledge, even if I disagree with him. He's not a "bad person" just because he's trying to propagate the false idea that Apple has monopoly power. It's just an opinion. It's a free country.
Note that tayme is with me on your change of tone, even though we have strongly disagreed in the past on subjects.
This all reminds me of the striking reaction you had to Leo when he told you that IE only accounted for something like 20% of all of his traffic and that Safari was not far behind it at 14 or 17%. You seemed flabbergasted. Truly. That felt very biased. I realize that you hate Safari for some reason. That you see it as "pointless" and it's compatibility "terrible" is very rarely backed up. I suppose Google chose webkit because it sucks. Same goes for Samsung, Nokia and Adobe with AIR. Your anti-safari/webkit rhetoric on how "horrible" it's compatibility is and what a "joke" it is is simply out of step with reality (and unsubstantiated).
Sorry, Paul. You need to take a step back and cool off. Stop insulting the character of other people. Stop throwing stones about bias in your own glass house.
>>Maybe if they'd get Lindy, John, Dave, Ocean, and the rest of the gang to chill with the personal attacks, trolling, and stop the F.U.D. barrage<<
My name doesn't belong with that bunch. I've called for moderated boards too.
Matter of fact, this site *does* have message boards...but they aren't well used at all.
I am so glad that they put a speaker in the iPod touch lineup. That was a big reason I hadn't bought the previous version. Does it do OTA sync with iTunes? I'd love it if it found my network at home and sync'd without my having to cable it up...
The iPod lineup lacks the snap and flash of the past.
I think the snap and flash and the breathless 'whats next?' now belongs to the iPhone lineup.
Maybe theres an opening for the Zune among those who don't want a phone, or a nano, but a 'brick'....
@Ocean
You should be the first person booted off of here. The post spamming, OT nonsense, and trolling made you the poster child of what was wrong with the comment section.
Paul is taking away the playground that many of the Apple fanatics depended on for their garbage, and they are none to happy about it. Good.
"Maybe theres an opening for the Zune among those who don't want a phone, or a nano, but a 'brick'...."
Seriously are you just trying to be stupid on purpose?It's almost like some of you get off on being childish.
Master, why not stick to the topic at hand instead of talking about users?
Ocean, the zune is a nice player. It really is. It's interface is very slick and fast to navigate. The Zunepad is a good design, if a bit touchy and more prone to accidental actions than the click wheel.
Here's a real question for the group.
Does anyone think Microsoft is moving fast enough to innovate with the Zune to warrant the havok it caused with the playsforesure ecosystem and he damage it's done to Microsoft's partners?
Wasn't that the point? Microsoft felt partners couldn't move fast enough to counter Apple given the slowness of a licensed ecosystem? I don't know see that they are doing dramatically better than Creative (who they seem to have crushed with the Zune). And the signal the Zune sends to developers is: watch out! Build your business on our tech and we may just undermine it to compete with you... even if it's a business well outside our area of expertise.
This is not Zune or Microsoft bashing and anyone that takes it as such isn't being reasonable. Anyone else looking to have a discussion, please chime in.
>>Does anyone think Microsoft is moving fast enough to innovate with the Zune to warrant the havok it caused with the playsforesure ecosystem and he damage it's done to Microsoft's partners?<<
The answer to that question is: 'Can Apple build a better device than it's partners could have?'
I guess we should also think about the fact that the software/device integration was really important to MS. Given the reviews, I think MS would tell you yes.
@johnpapola
I don't think that that is relevant anymore, if Microsoft was ready to back down on the zune it would have done it already. Remember that playforsure going down hurt Microsoft as much as their partners, but it had to be done. This is the way I see it to compete with the apple in music you only have two options cut the price (not really possible) or sell high quality mp3 that are DRM free for about the same price. Also the subscription plan is great and I think that Microsoft did a good move and it's helping all of us by pushing apple to continue innovating and then apple pushes zune. Also the zune devices are great for their price and I have not had any issues with them, they have last me more than some ipods that i owned.
I can't wait for Microsoft to combine the zune, xbox, windows mobile, and pc market. My home is already really sweet with media center pc and xbox as extenders and home server as my data hub and the zune on the go. Life is good
"I heard Tom Brokaw refer to Governor Palin as a "Homecoming Queen" and "Sassy Woman"."
He meant "Beauty Queen", which would have been accurate, and "sexy woman", which I suppose comes with being a beauty queen.
In fact, he probably SAID "sexy woman", but with that speech impediment, you never know.
;-)
What happened to playsforsure anyway? Most creative, sony, archos et all still work with Media player as the host app if needed, so what's the issue?
(I'm not being sarcastic, I really don't know)
Would someone care to educate me?
"Microsoft felt partners couldn't move fast enough to counter Apple given the slowness of a licensed ecosystem?"
Yes.
"I don't know see [sic] that they are doing dramatically better than Creative (who they seem to have crushed with the Zune)."
There's that contradicting nature of yours again. Are they crushing their competition, or are they doing no better than them???
"What happened to playsforsure anyway? Most creative, sony, archos et all still work with Media player as the host app if needed, so what's the issue?"
Nothing. Microsoft wanted to differentiate within the market. They left an infrastructure in place for partners that wouldn't have to means to build it from scratch themselves. If they competed within the PlaysForSure market, do you honestly think it would be any better for their partners? Any worse?
PlaysForSure isn't going away any time soon. It did, however, get a name change. The Certified for Windows Vista hardware logo thing is actually a better idea, because it means that Joe consumer can buy a device, plug it into a Windows Vista computer, and it works with online services without requiring any extra software. That's pretty good integration IMO.
Remember that Logitech also complained when Microsoft entered the hardware market. It's not the same with Zune though, because it's totally separate from the direct Windows integration that Certified PMP's get. I'd figure that it likely would've led to several antitrust complaints by not only Apple, but also Microsoft's other hardware partners. By separating the "experiences" from core Windows functionality, they averted a much larger bullet.
I definitely like the glossy metal finish of the Zune, more than the satin iPod finish.
Two things.
Mike , LiveMeeting does not give a nasty warning when using a Mac browser. MS made it work well on both platforms. Apple should do the same for MoMe.
DarkSages, I bet that the Live services are going to tie a lot of stuff that you mentioned together, even on a Mac. Their intentions state Mac support. Apple shoould follow in spades, especially due to market share.
Finally, any one ever use Nuevasync?
john,
Please stop whining!
If it helps, I actually received the same message while trying to check my email (Hotmail) using IE8. I refreshed and the message went away. Moreover, what comes up is not a smarmy message like the one on the MobileMe page. OK, So IE 7 is inferior in terms of standards support. Safari is arguably inferior in terms of security (at least on Windows). Would you rather see the message that you're using an insecure browser when you visit a Microsoft site? The fact that IE7 is not supported by MobileMe was never the issue here. It was the arrogant message that IE7 users received.
Never mind about Nuevasync. Any one know a good way to sync my Outlook calendar with Gmail calender? A good link would be appreciated. Thanks,
Doc
PS
Mike, I will NEVER run again. My friggin' leg is killing me and it's 25% purple now. Getting old sucks.
DRWAM
Sorry to hear about the leg.
Yep. Getting old sucks (and not especially well to parphrase the great Spider Robinson) but it beats the alternative.
I haven't tried to sync Outlook calendar to Google's calendar. Paul has been writing a lot about that, though, so he might know.
There is a help file on it at http://www.google.com/support/calendar/bin/answer.py?answer=98563&topic=... that might be useful but, again, I don't use it so I'm not sure.
Thanks dude. I will give it a try. What a coincidence that the new Zune Blue matches the Lotus at your web page, and on the day that you're in the same area. Just kidding. But the Zune colors are so inviting, that someone needs to get a raise in salary. I'm reminded of the candy apple Corvettes, C3 types or Stingrays. Those were the days my friend!
DRWAM
I'm assuming that was meant for me and that Dude1313 doesn't own a Lotus...
Actually, my current actual Lotus is green. (They didn't have blue when mine was built and the new Evora won't be out for a few years)
ooh, lotus. Niiiiiiiice!
I've always wanted an exige, since I first set eyes upon it at it's motorshow debut.
