Best of Both Worlds? Debunking a Misguided Proposal for Windows 8

There's been a lot of debate in the tech world over the past few months about whether the ARM-based versions of Windows 8 should be "pure" tablets, providing only the Metro-style Start screen experience, or full-fledged Windows machines, offering the classic Windows desktop as well. It's a good question, and one that I ponder regularly. But some have asked whether there isn't a third option.

This so-called third option is often described, erroneously, I think, as "the best of both worlds." And the theory goes something like this:

While in slate form, detached from any dock or keyboard, an ARM-based Windows 8 tablet would simply offer the Start screen and access to Metro-style apps.

But while docked or attached to a keyboard, the same ARM-based Windows 8 tablet would also offer the full desktop experience, and access to legacy Windows applications.

But this raises its own questions. Most obviously: Does this configuration even make sense?

No, it does not.

Let's say you use Microsoft Word 2010 to edit word processing documents. Even while in a pure tablet mode, you may want to read these documents and do light editing. But if Windows "hid" the desktop from you, along with its apps, this would be impossible. (Using the same app. Obviously, you could use some other Metro-style app instead. But how weird would that be?)

Windows is not about limiting the user in this way. There are no "modes." If anything, there are too many ways to accomplish many actions, thanks to the Windows' need to serve so many different audience types.

Ultimately, the decision on ARM-based Windows 8 tablets comes back to the original two choices:

- They will provide the full desktop experience, which will be a bit jarring and odd for users of pure tablets, and not fully compatible with legacy Windows applications, which will likewise be odd.

Or...

- They will not provide access to the legacy Windows desktop, which will provide a more "pure" tablet experience, one that is in many ways similar to that on the iPad.

Pedantically, you could argue that the latter option is "limiting." But I don't see that at all. It's worse to provide access to a desktop environment that would suggest to people that all those previous Windows applications will work just fine, when in fact they will not. I think the big break here needs to happen on the ARM side, and this transition was previously mirrored when certain legacy features were removed from 64-bit bit versions of Windows XP, Vista, and 7. A processor architecture change is the ideal, obvious, and logical time and place to make this break.

Discuss this Article 19

pierolodato
on Dec 3, 2011
Although Windows 8 in ARM works only with Metro style, you can edit your office documents via Office 365, some applications can be migrated to Metro style but others will not make sense, for example, an architect will want to show their work in a tablet, but it will right that can design a building in a 10 "display?
davepermen
on Dec 3, 2011
I guess intel is working very hard to make sure arm is unneeded for tablets when win8 is out. new core i3,5,7 will be out by then, and new atom based systems (which should run win8 just fine). the only advantage arm really has is the batterylife. and i bet intel is working very hard to diminish that. and then, x86 win8 tablets will have everything, making the arm based ones with limitations (they will NEVER run all apps, as they have to be recompiled. just as they NEVER will support all hardware, as drivers have to be recompiled). i think we'll see towards the end of the year the raise of x86 tablets. at least for business (where that single old driver or app still has to run, even while it should have been replaced 10 years ago). and for consumers, a metro only tablet does make sense. kinda like a big winphone7. so while the whole discussion is interesting and fun, i think it will be unimportant once we're there. both intel and amd will have arm-like offerings by then, but on x86 davepermen
rwalrond
on Dec 3, 2011
As you pointed out on Windows Weekly, the most difficult issue that Microsoft has to solve is how they will market these ARM devices. I would think the last thing that Microsoft wants is for a consumer to walk into a computer store and buy the wrong type of Windows device. This leads me to another thought. What if Microsoft's ARM push is really just a way to wake Intel up? If Intel can get its mobile act together in time for Windows 8, will Microsoft be in a hurry to confuse the market by putting out a Windows ARM device that doesn't run all the same software as a similar Windows Intel Device? Another possible solution is that they don't call the ARM devices Windows (Which would probably confuse consumers even more). I think Microsoft is better off not releasing an ARM tablet.
mlesak
on Dec 3, 2011
I've been thinking the same thing since I watched the keynotes from MS build conference. I get what MS is trying to do, but there's several challenges to be worked out depending on how "bold" they go with W8. If they had a decent chunk of the mobile market with Mango today, the challenge wouldn't be as steep, but that's not reality. For those that use Mango phones, Xbox 360, Zune, etc, W8 will be comfortable/familiar. As for everyone else, I have a feeling it's going to be extremely confusing. We'll have to wait and see what W8 beta looks like to see where MS is headed compared to the preview/developers release.
Lantean
on Dec 3, 2011
I don't agree with your stance. If you take away the traditional desktop, you lose a lot of the functionality that comes with it, and the opportunity for software developers of traditional apps to port them to ARM. These apps are the only thing that might make someone preffer a Windows tablet to an iPad, because without them, it becomes pretty much the same thing as WP7 vs iPhone - as good as it may be, it can't attract the same amount of people, and it would have an even bigger disadvantage when it comes to app ecosystem. I think Microsoft probably won't have to make this decision at all - the OEMs will determine if it makes sense to build ARM tablets for windows.
markuslaff
on Dec 3, 2011
I'm love the idea of ditching all legacy apps including the desktop on ARM. This is their chance to start from scratch and build something new and better. But what if they had the option to install the desktop through a powertoy or pluggin. This would be for power users or specialized circumstances like diagnostic applications for IT workers. Like XP mode in Win7. It's there for the 1% but the 99% will never know it exists.
jmwallace74
on Dec 3, 2011
I believe an ARM based windows tablet cannot natively provide the best of both worlds. And why would you want it to? The cost and weight I believe would be more than most people are willing to endure for a tablet. So why cant an ARM based Windows 8 tablet provide a Remote Desktop experience ala gotomypc or other cloud service options? This is the opportunity for Microsoft to push their cloud services and provide a service and interface for an ARM based Windows 8 tablet or phone to get the full desktop experience. Getting Microsoft to improve my current RDP experience from my iPad to my desktop (In the future my Windows 8 tablet to my desktop), is something I would really look forward to.
Webdev511
on Dec 3, 2011
@Lantean I couldn't disagree with you more. Put simply, legacy apps are not touch frinedly. You can make Windows 8 desktop apps touch friendly, but you can bet that Microsoft, not the orignal application developer would be pegged if someone's legacy app were loaded and didn't work as expected. It would be Vista all over again in that the OS was great, but thrird parties (people writing drivers in the case of Vista) completely missed the boat. This time around Microsoft isn't going to let a 3rd party runin the party.If that means making ARM tablets Metro Only, then so be it. If you want a tablet that has both Metro and Classic desktop, don't get an ARM tablet, get an x64 tablet. It's that simple. Granted someone will still have to set expectation levels, but Vista Redux is not in the cards for Windows 8.
Waethorn
on Dec 3, 2011
You can't answer the Desktop/no-Desktop question without answering this: Is the ARM version just a port of the x86 version, or is it something that was made more modular for better hardware integration, like Windows Embedded? Microsoft said that tighter integration was necessary for ARM versions, which leads me to believe that they needed separately compiled versions of Windows for each ARM chip to take advantage of the hardware (one hypothesis is that they did this to optimize kernel drivers). I know that each ARM chip manufacturer has their own implementation of graphics architecture, and the support may have to be cooked into lower-levels of the OS. Does this mean that drivers for ARM support will have to be pushed out via only authorized, validated channels (ie. Windows Update)? This also brings up a lot of questions about game compatibility. Not to mention that ARM chips aren't exactly designed around DirectX - they are designed mostly for OpenGL ES 2.0, which is not even close to being comparable to D3D11 GPU's. I think if consumers want to play it safe in the tablet space, but still get something that can handle HD video and 3D well, and on a budget, they should look at AMD APU's next year.
Waethorn
on Dec 3, 2011
@markuslaff: More than 1% know that XP Mode is there, at least in businesses. I would say (with gross overexaggeration) that "1%" of consumers know it's there since "the 99%" run Windows 7 Home Premium and don't have the feature. Here's another question for the masses: If Microsoft takes out legacy mode, what happens with all of the accessory programs that come with Windows? Go ahead and look at your Accessories and tell me there isn't a single thing there that you use. I'll wait. Now, are you so willing to give up those just to say that you don't want a desktop? Also, how do you mount a virtual drive in Metro? Or for that matter, has anyone seen WinPE for WoA yet?
guruguru
on Dec 3, 2011
Paul, just because the win8 ARM tables include a desktop mode, it doesn't mean they aren't ipad competitors. this flawed logic that to compete with the ipad you have to cripple the tablets by disabling the desktop is nonsense. if MSFT wanted to just released a tile UI, they would have done so with windows phone. how is that working out? oh yeah, it is not selling. The belief that the ipad is the ultimate way to do things is straight out of the pit of foolishnes. the ipad is crippled for it doesn't have a desktop mode and yet you see people trying ot make it into a desktop with attachments....yet the OS is flawed. windows 8 is the cure to the ipad flaw.
JimmyFal
on Dec 3, 2011
Funny because the whole time I was using Win 8 as my main OS for about the last 2 months, I kept going back to something you would say which was, this IS the interface, and at this point they will NOT be changing any of that. I rode along with that in mind, and now it seems that not only is it possible that MS has listened to input, they might be in the process of back stepping just a little bit or at least entertaining the idea we both thought was probably not possible back in Sept. I do think that having a touch interface separated from a desktop interface might be the way to go, particularly for ARM if the intricacies of putting the desktop UI, turn out to be impossible. Although if they are able to pull it off, I would like to see both interfaces at least as available options. I could see how power users could be perfectly comfortable with the jarring change between the two, but how would we please the consumer? I see no reason why the tablet version of Word could not be used to edit desktop Word documents that would seem to me to be seamless, only with the interface looking slightly different between the two. MS has their work cut out for them, I hope they sit some consumers down in front of the tablets and take really good notes on what that consumer finds to be confusing. Because even as a power user, I found my two months on Win 8 Preview, to be a little confusing, but change always is.
cditty
on Dec 3, 2011
Seriously, the desktop mode in ARM is useless. Anyone programming forward with sense will write Metro Style apps that run on both platforms anyway. Talk about a publicity nightmare. I bought this tablet and it won't install 'insert program'. I want my money back. I think ARM should be all metro all the time.
gbowles
on Dec 3, 2011
Hi Paul. Not much has been said about the "jarring" change many of us lived through when we adopted Win 3.1 and had legacy DOS apps hanging around for years afterward. True, it was possible to run DOS apps in a Window, but the app didn't take advantage of the windowed environment. For many DOS apps you would go full screen to use it properly. How did we survive the transition? We were all living with the insanity of a different interface for every application in DOS. Windows 3.1 provided the standardization that moved the industry forward. It was jarring, to switch between full screen DOS apps and new windowed apps. But most of us got how much better the new interface was and that the old would disappear in time. I think Microsoft can find ways to make the visual transition from the desktop to the start screen less jarring. Certainly when we have a similar theme, colors, background in both environments it will look better moving between them. Ultimately, if we all feel that Metro style is better and the way forward, the transition won't be a problem. But I would like to hear more about your thoughts on how the DOS - Windows 3.1 transition compares to this latest one.
jagosilver
on Dec 3, 2011
What I can't quite figure out is how MS is going to control the expectations of the users. With their whole Windows Everywhere mantra they seem to be saying that rather than take the Apple route where you have to choose between, long battery life ultra-slim, instant on devices like the iPad and "real" computers like a Mac... you can have BOTH with Windows 8. But that's not quite true is it... there are going to be (presumably) tablet devices running Win8 that look similar to the iPad and have similar strengths, but will only run Metro apps (and how many of them will there be?) and there are going to be other tablets that run the full "desktop" version of Win8 and will allow you to install Photoshop or something (never mind whether it can run at a useful speed without draining the battery)....How does the consumer know which is which? and if they buy the "wrong" one their user experience will be dreadful regardless of how good the device actually is. Plus the whole notion of a single OS that can scale from a 7" (5"??) touch screen to a 2&" desktop monitor seems to asking for trouble. How do you design an app that is GOOD at all theses sizes and for two different methods of input? Apple gets a lot of flack (often from Paul) for it's "limited" or "closed" devices and attitude, but I think this shows that the opposite approach may not fare well either... I'd love to know Paul's thought'son all this, as well as what he thinks the distinction is (and will be) between a PC and a non-PC (as he currently says the iPad is). Cheers
Lantean
on Dec 3, 2011
@BI_Tinkering: I'm sorry, but I don't see your point. The presence of a desktop mode will not take away the need for touch-friendly metro apps - people will demand it, developers will hopefully be compelled to make them. So the only difference is that the presence of a "traditional" mode will allow tablets to be flexible (a la Eee Pad Transformer) and turn themselves into full-fledged desktops when needed. I really doubt that the absence of this is what will stimulate developers in investing in Metro apps. If that's all that backs development, then Microsoft might as well quit the tablet market.
guruguru
on Dec 4, 2011
off course paul's point is that if not all desktop apps work then people will not be happy. But how are devs supposed to make the apps work if windows doesn't support access to the desktop. if ARM is to run desktop apps, devs need the environment open. if you build it, they will come.
Info Dave
on Dec 4, 2011
The only way legacy Windows is going to work on an ARM tablet is if the docking station has an x86 processor in it. The tablet will essentially become a monitor to the docking station. Windows 8 is shaping up to be a major release for Microsoft, as big a move as Apple did transitioning to OS X. Microsoft has a lot riding on this.
WATERCHEMIST
on Dec 4, 2011
Windows 8 is a very troubling development. I just thought that Microsoft was heading in the right direction with Windows 7 and then they turn around and head straight back to the DOS ages. If Metro is a success, then developers will use it to target all Windows devices with a single application, a full screen ONLY application. It makes sense on 10" tablet or an netbook, but on a high end laptop or desktop with large display it makes no sense what-so-ever. What Microsoft is proposing isn't Windows Everywhere, it's Windows nowhere. Imagine never being able to run more that two applications on the screen at once - no more overlapping windows, or resizing three windows to see them all on the screen at once. And, they are selling this experience and "No Compromises"....Really? I'll reserve my final judgement for the first BETA, but if things keep heading in this direction, I'll be skipping Windows 8 entirely. Apple's Mac OS X already has the ability to run a single application full screen or windowed. Now, its not too hard to see how they could get those full screen apps to run on a future iPad - they are not very far away from delivering the "No Compromises" solution that Windows 8 falsely claims to be. I made become a switcher.

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