Dueling Views on Windows 8 Usability

Windows 8 is hard to use. No it's not

A Jakob Nielsen post has gotten a lot of attention from Microsoft haters and Windows 8 skeptics, as expected, since it reports that the new OS provides disappointing usability for both novices and power users. But his is not the only voice on this issue, and a post from former Microsoftie Scott Barnes does a nice job of debunking the Nielsen rant. So who’s right?

You may be surprised to discover that I sit somewhere in the middle, much as I do with politics. That is, while I agree with Nielsen that Windows 8 requires a bit of work to learn—it is a new user experience, after all—and have written more than anyone about this system’s curious dual (and dueling) personalities, I also know from experience that these issues are entirely surmountable. That is, PC users aren’t as dumb as we’re made out to be. We can handle change.

Here are the posts:

Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

Jakob Nielsen is not your Windows 8 Guru heres why [a title that requires multiple sics]

The biggest issue I have with the original Nielsen’s post is that it uses an age-old trick to fool people into thinking this guy knows what he’s talking about, and far too many have taken the bait. That is, it hides the tenuous nature of its argument behind many, many big words and phrases. These all sound intelligent, thus the author must know what he’s talking about and you should believe him.

I’m referring to things like “cognitive overhead,” “added memory load for complex tasks,” and my personal favorite, “low information density.” That last one is classic because, as you know, what we’re all looking for is “high information density,” like those busy blogs and web sites where you can’t tell ads from articles and everything is blinking and screaming at you.

That said, Barnes’ post of course suffers from some issues too. It’s poorly written and edited (which can be fixed; I suspect he rushed it out to counter the press Nielsen has gotten) and draws too many comparisons to non-relevant topics to make his points. (“It’s like I grabbed [the] Angry Birds app [and] declared iPhone a fail due to lack of 3D support.” No, it’s really not. And edit that damn article, dude.)

But whatever. They both make some good points.

What I’m left with is simple. Microsoft should be applauded for making the very difficult transition to a mobile platform in such a rapid fashion, and doing so in a way that really does allow the entire Windows user base to come along for the ride. Transitions of this magnitude are always hard. But discounting our ability as users to make that transition discounts years of learning, of overcoming notions that seems right but aren’t true in the real world.

For example, Office was once designed so that all the toolbars were similar, with the assumption that this would aid users in moving from application to application. It sounds right. But it was based on absolutely no research at all, and over time, Microsoft found that users can handle completely different UIs. It’s why one person can use an Android phone, an iPad, and a Windows PC and never get confused. Completely different systems. But we’re just not that dumb.

Windows 8 will be more rewarding on touch-based mobile hardware, yes. But since I’ve been using nothing but Windows 8 on a traditional desktop PC for a full year now, I can tell you that it works just fine on legacy devices too. It’s that simple.

Discuss this Article 45

chilero
on Nov 20, 2012

The use of the big words and phrases to fool people in the Jakob Nielsen post is also referred to as "baffle them with bullsh*t" method commonly used by students, who lack knowledge, trying to impress a teacher.

The Barnes article failed to get me to finish reading it.

TimG
on Nov 20, 2012

I fall somewhere in the middle in all this as well. I'm using Windows 8 about half the time and have no trouble using it, but then I use multiple systems as part of my work and feel equally at home in Windows 7, XP, OS X and Linux. Liking is another matter, however. I find Windows 8 obstructive enough that I don't really like using it. It's not difficult to use, I just don't like using it and find it dated and definitely unattractive to look at, but that is really just a personal preference. Given the choice, I definitely prefer Windows 7 and I'm going to stick with that for the time being.

nick.karasev
on Nov 20, 2012

I would like to cite a great response of one of The Verge commenters, where this story run yesterday: "http://www.useit.com/ 'Nuff said." (Nielson's own web site)

If that link strikes you as a web site of somebody who has any idea about information density, cognitive overhead and the like, I'm taking an exit. Give me a break! I will listen to this guy, big words or no, once he learns a bare minimum of information design and upgrades his browser from NCSA Mosaic.

GoodThings2Life
on Nov 20, 2012

Agreed on all counts. I couldn't stand reading either article, because I wanted to smack both of them for being morons.

The simple reality is that YES, Windows 8 requires a bit of a learning curve, but NO, it's not difficult. It's actually a very quick learning experience, and frankly it's the same with EVERY release of EVERY product. It's called change. When something is different, you must learn the new stuff, and then it's all fine and peachy again... and you usually wonder how you ever tolerated the old way.

Vinny4
on Nov 20, 2012

I'm really sick of all of this. Most of it being biased tech bloggers who seem to be gods of technology rip on anything Microsoft or anything not Apple.

spsingh1
on Nov 20, 2012

After using Win 8 for a couple of months there are definitely some positives as well as negatives:
Positives:
- Boots faster.
- The charms bar once you understand how it works.
- The Start screen. When the average user installs programs they appear in the start screen so they are easy to find. In Win 7 when a program was installed you usually had to go to "All Programs" from the Start Button, then maybe look for the folder the program(s) were installed in, and finally create a short a shortcut on the desktop.

Negative:
The biggest negative is the transition/flipping between the Metro and the Desktop. For example, I am on the desktop and open a PDF using the Windows Reader. When I close Windows Reader, I am left on the Start Screen rather than on the desktop. This should easy to fix.

There are still some program compatibility issues also. My business uses QuickBooks 2010. QuickBooks is working on certify there program(s) for Win 8. The only down side is that I may have to upgrade to 2013. Not sure yet.

GoodThings2Life
on Nov 20, 2012

Easiest thing to do with apps is to be sure to Run as Administrator. I have found that solves 90% of the compatibility issues, and the other 10% are usually driver/hardware-related.

oadrian
on Nov 20, 2012

Unfortunately this also opens up security vulnerabilities.

rainking430
on Nov 21, 2012

For the transition/flipping aspect between desktop and UI, why don't you just install the desktop counterparts to the metro apps you'd need to use, as you'd do with any previous version of Windows? For instance, for PDFs, you can just install Adobe Reader. Then in the desktop, right-click a pdf file, and set Reader to be the default application. Afterward if you don't need the metro reader app, you can just uninstall it.

As for compatibility of older software, have you tried running Quickbooks '10 using Windows 7 compatibility mode?

spsingh1
on Nov 24, 2012

Quickbooks 2010 installs fine. The only thing that is having problems so far is when I reconcile my account, Quickbooks get hung and never completes the reconciliation. I have talked to Intuit about this issue. They are aware of this and other problems. Intuit is working on certifying the latest version for Windows 8. Not sure if they will fix older versions.

fgobill
on Nov 28, 2012

This PDF suggestion is one I would highly recommend. If you are on the desktop all of the time, or if you want to be able to have more than1 PDF open at a time. Simple and smart solution.

jwpear
on Nov 20, 2012

At home, I have traditional PC/laptop hardware, which I upgraded to Win 8, and a new touch enabled laptop (Yoga). It's been interesting to watch my wife and kids with the new OS on each type of machine.

My kids (elementary school age) think it's pretty cool and fun. They have no problem learning the new UI. Of course, they use the computer a little for school work, but mostly for entertainment. They've required little help to adjust. I initially showed them how to get to the start menu from within an app and how to close apps. They immediately began exploring all the apps and easily picked them up. They also took to the Windows Store and figured out how to install apps/games (the free ones). Touch was natural for them. For some reason, they love the personalization features.

My wife has, naturally, been using computers much longer and uses them for work, school, and entertainment/social activities. Her first reaction was to tell me that she's too old to be learning something new. She was initially frustrated with how to get to the Start screen. I told her the easiest way was to tap the Windows key. She didn't want to have to touch the keyboard when she's browsing the web. I showed her the more difficult way of using the mouse to get to the charms bar. She was happy, despite it taking more effort.

She was then frustrated with Metro IE. She didn't know how to launch a new tab or to switch between them. I showed her how to right-click to bring up the tabs or to use Ctrl+Tab to move between open tabs (which requires use of the pesky keyboard). I do think MS ought to provide the option to show tabs in Metro IE.

Her next obstacle was printing. It wasn't obvious to her how to do that. I showed her how to get to it in devices and also the use of Ctrl+P. I can see how those methods of printing can be hard to discover for some. I feel like print should be an option right on the charms bar.

To date, I haven't heard any complaints about the dual UI, information density (I'm not buying that people want more clutter), or live tiles. In fact, they really like the new UI. And interestingly, they're already able to do much of what they need entirely in Metro.

Thermogenic
on Nov 20, 2012

For metro apps, the charms bar does allow you to print by going to devices and then selecting your printer.

Your point about tabs in metro IE can't be stressed enough. Whether using touch or mouse, it seems silly to have to do two actions.

rainking430
on Nov 21, 2012

Hi jwpear. Not sure I follow your experience with your wife. She is using an x86 machine, no? Most of the stuff you mention hasn't changed much from previous versions when you approach them from within the desktop:

For the start screen: did you show her how you can hover the mouse at the bottom left corner to bring up the start screen? Not sure how that is more complicated then clicking on a start button...

For IE10: can't she just use the desktop version?

And for printers: when on the desktop just right click the bottom left corner, choose Control Panel, then View Devices and Printers on the front page.

lsta
on Nov 21, 2012

For metro IE confusion, get Chrome ;-) Problem solved.

pyrotechnomimus
on Dec 1, 2012

On touch, she can swipe in from the right. There's no reason or need to use the mouse on the Yoga 13 for this action. Swipe in from the right, start with off the screen with the finger, and pull towards the middle (about an inch) and the charms will reveal without keyboard, just touch.

Metro IE is easily capable of showing tabs, cycling through them and pulling up a new one. Pull down from the top of the screen with a finger, or right click any empty (no text/pictures) on a website and it will reveal the tabs along with the address bar (tabs at top, address bar at bottom). The + symbol in the upper right will create a new tab, the X will of course close old ones.

Just some pointers, another person in this line of conversation mentioned swiping in from the right and choosing devices would allow you to print. Just repeating here for completion. Hope all goes well with Windows 8, I'm really enjoying my 3 different 8 devices.

vvincent1
on Nov 20, 2012

At least we can count on MG Siegler to give us the unbiased, objective, and reasonably fair review that Jakob Nielson couldn't provide.

Oh... wait...

thundr35
on Nov 20, 2012

I think all of this boils down to one thing. People love to hate things and since the opinions on Win 8 is all over the place its easier (and popular) to pile on the hate on MS. Is Win8 perfect No. It's a v1.0 product, either stick with 7 or come to 8 and grin and bear it.

@spsingh1 - if you download adobe pdf reader, you can right click it and select the 'use with' feature (not sure of wording exactly, away from pc) so that it will open on the desktop. I had to do the same thing with links I clicked from the email app.

oadrian
on Nov 20, 2012

Jakob Nielson's writes for usability people and people interested in usability and not for the general audience. His use of big words isn't wasted on people who know the subject. It adds to the specificity of his issues. He's not writing this as a critique, but as the results of a usability study. This isn't his opinion. He did research. He found people to use and gathered data and then came to a conclusion. His conclusion may be off, and his study will need to be confirmed by the outside, but dismissing his research because he used scientific terms is itself fallacious.

That said, I'm sure Microsoft has also done mountains of usability research on their OS and has probably come to their own set of conclusions and I'm far more likely to trust theirs. Microsoft has a long-term strategy here and I'm guessing they got as much polish in as they could in the time frame, but it's still likely not as much as they will need in the long term, but it will get there.

Personally, I really like Windows 8, and I've been using it since it was first available in preview form. I have seen some rough edges mostly where other people have and also some currently unique to myself. But my opinion doesn't affect the science.

As for his website, I find it has little bearing on the accuracy of his studies or analysis. His articles are nice enough and easy to read and parse. His homepage may seem plain, but as he explains in his actual articles, loading speed affects usability and satisfaction and his site is dead simple and loads fast. And, lastly on this point, his site is designed for usability professionals and researchers and fits well within the style of academic articles and publications.

You may find fault with some of his analysis or his conclusions, but please don't use fallacious arguments to try and discredit his work. It does a disservice to us all.

mebby
on Nov 20, 2012

I agree that Nielson's work has value. To me his website demonstrates ease-of-navigation. Other people can add more eye-candy. I think the research illustrates the difficulties some folks will have using Win 8. MS can and should improve the user experience in the Metro, desktop, and combined UI using this type of feedback.

However, I don't necessarily agree with all his points.

I don't think much of the iOS UI and had some head scratchers during my first use but once I learned to navigate, not big deal. Same thing occurred using Win 8 on the desktop and tablet. No cognitive overload or memory loss.

My annoyance is that many are using his work as a UI expert to prove their point that Win 8 is utterly unusable, especially on a desktop. I use Win 8 at home (for work and personal). I spend most of time in desktop mode and I find it utterly usable. I like the Metro UI as a start page. Using it with a scroll wheel is simple and easy. Windows 8 - based on my experience - is faster and more stable than Win 7. And has some additional features that made it worthwhile to upgrade on a non-touch desktop.

And I use the Metro UI on a Surface RT and find it utterly usable. The swipe gestures are efficient. I hate webpages that are now so (commonly) information dense so the Metro-style apps are fine. (Though they can/should add more features to gain back the functionality of their desktop counterparts.) The changing info in the live tiles is not distracting to me. Etc.

So I would not fall into that category of the 10 test subjects in the Nielson. But I am just one dude.

plantagenet
on Nov 20, 2012

I have been using windows 8 on the desktop for about 3 months now. Personally I really like the OS. I have embraced the shortcut keys and love the speed of the system. Having a start bar with everything is held in a nested list (win 7 or before) or using metro which I agree is more suited to touch but in my opinion no worse on non touch devices than the original start bar was.
You as you have always been in windows will find it much quicker to navigate around the system with shortcuts. Alt+q or W for example will get you to the app you want much faster than looking through a list.
My personal experience of windows 8 combined with Sky Drive has been after the intial couple of days shock nothing but fantastic. The speed of the system compared to windows 7 is night and day. Office applications open so much more quickly and to be honest everything is just that bit quicker than windows 7 that when I step back onto a users machine I find the whole experience incredibly frustrating.
I would be lying if I said I wasn't nervous about how the user base is going to react to the change but the few test users we have rolled the system out to have been very positive about the change and when offered refused to switch back to windows 7 which is a good sign I believe.

oadrian
on Nov 20, 2012

Ultimately I find that Windows 8 has a heavier reliance on shortcut keys than previous versions to Windows in order to be effective on the desktop. I have two large dual screen monitors and getting the mouse to hit the corner in order to slide it down for the charms menu is tedious and error prone (even if it is better than the earlier previews). Microsoft could come back later and increase the size of the "catcher's mitt" area that grabs your mouse. In the mean time I'll use Win+C to bring up the charms menu, but given how few people use keyboard combinations with high frequency this may be a shortcoming of Windows 8 in the short term. One other usability complaint I have is that without a constantly visible clock, I don't know what time it is just by glancing. I either have to exit my current program to the desktop, or I have to use the mouse or keyboard to bring up the Modern UI clock. Neither of which is particularly good when I'm trying to watch a movie or TV show and keep track of the time since I tend to lounge back and I loose access to the keyboard and mouse.

nick.karasev
on Nov 20, 2012

Have you considered using a track pad or a touch-sensitive mouse with Windows 8? Because it is completely and utterly eliminates any need for reaching out to a touch-sensitive screen, learning new keyboard shortcuts, or having to deal with hot corners... Yes, I understand that touch enabled input devices are a rather new invention, but if Apple, Microsoft, and Logitech direction is any indication, this is the future desktop is moving to. Some people may not like it (some hated the original mouse and are still insisting on a terminal window), but we are going through a paradigm shift here. People can either embrace it and gain productivity, or be eventually left behind.

jimbie882
on Nov 20, 2012

I haven't read the articles yet, but I wished the Window UI was handled differently. For desktop computers and non-touch laptops, you'll see the Windows desktop first. You'll still see the Start button on the lower left corner, but it is the new Windows Icon. When you press it, you'll go to the new Metro UI as the Start Screen instead of a small menu. You'll see your Programs and other items (Documents, Pictures, Music, Control Panel) in the tiled Metro layout.

Only with Touch and Mobile devices do you get the revise order of seeing the Metro UI / Start Screen. Only with Windows 8 and not RT do you get the Windows desktop.

I do think having the Charms on the Right side as the right idea, but only for Tablets.

I agree with others who say "Where's the Windows?" in Windows. You ought to be able to have Apps in Windows for multi-tasking.

To improve usability, why don't they have all the important tiles on one page? It seems like Windows Phone have much more tiles than the Desktop.

mghartman
on Nov 20, 2012

My biggest critique of Windows 8 is the lack of responsiveness across the board.. If there is a small circle w/ an arrow in it and that is the only thing within 2 inches on-screen that is clickable, I should have to pinpoint the exact location to execute the action behind it.. Either make the target bigger or improve the APIs to simulate a click when high probability of assertion exists..

Once you click on it it should go back, not sit for a second or two waiting until some API receives a response giving it the "okay" to proceed..

Then when you land on the resulting page, you should be given a clear indication that it is doing something.. Instead of some muted text that says "Syncing..." or something..

Lastly, how in the world did MS release IE without the ability to organize favorites in folders? I have to scroll first through pinned, then frequent, then favorites.. Seems very shortsighted..

I hope that most of my gripes will be fixed via software updates, but I fear that some of the responsiveness is due to the lack of power behind the ARM platform on RT..

dalestrauss
on Nov 20, 2012

Seems that Professor Nielsen didn't like the iPad usability either:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/jun/02/apple-ipad-usability-fa...

Besides, when Adrian Kingsley-Hughes and Preston Gralla trumpet the Professor's study for some more Windows 8 bashing, I KNOW it is hooey...

oadrian
on Nov 20, 2012

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is a hack, but even a hack can quote something accurate and valuable out-of-context and get whatever result they like. Kingsley-Hughes' quoting of the Nielson article shouldn't reflect on the quality of the Nielson article.

dalestrauss
on Nov 20, 2012

I read the Nielson article as well, and I feel it is flawed as well. This is not a case of website design. Tablets, in a full screen touch friendly environment, do offer limited data experience and I find that to be a plus given the lack of screen real estate. The jarring switches between the desktop and Metro experience is a valid critique, but given the fact that Microsoft chose to push its full OS downstream into the mobile experience, it is to be expected. Had Apple scaled OSX "down" for the iPhone and iPad, you would have had an equally jarring experience until the newer, kinder, gentler touch OS replaced all base OS software.

Even at that, I find the full Windows version of OneNote to be a far superior alternative to OneNote MX, which makes too many compromises.

Smith
on Nov 20, 2012

What I don't get is how these "reporters" can hate Windows 8 and treat 7 like heaven.... (see what I did there? But seriously....)
Like many, I've used Windows 8 in all of its preview iterations, DP through RTM. Not long into the CP I started using it as my primary OS. On my desktop.... Here's the thing - I don't need to use any of the "RT" apps at all. All of my applications are desktop apps, just like I used with 7. But I get the benefits that have improved the Windows desktop experience with 8.

The point is this: it's sensationalist BS to say things like, "Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users." As a power user, I find Windows 8 provides everything available to previous OSes and then some. So I don't really like or need the "new" interface or apps... so what? The system is fast and an improvement from 7.

oadrian
on Nov 20, 2012

Jakob Nielson isn't a reporter, he's a usability researcher. He's publishing the results of a usability study and adding an informal analysis at the end of the article.

His analysis is usually highly respected as he's considered one of the founding father's of modern website usability. And before you just reduce that to one man's opinion I quote usereffect.com, "Jakob Nielsen is clearly the father of modern website usability [...]."

nick.karasev
on Nov 20, 2012

If he's the founding father of modern web site usability, I now understand why most web sites are so bad at it. I hope he's promoting his own creation as an example of what you shouldn't do. Ever. And I don't mean it just because the site is god ugly. Look at the source code! It's been coded in what looks like FrontPage and HTML3 view of the world, with TABLE used for formatting... But I get it: aesthetics and presentation due to implementation detail have nothing to do with usability. Let me see... What about the utter clutter of text? The poor choice of color scheme with its yellow and blue in the background that's such a treat for color-blind people? The mindless separation into 'permanent' and 'news' (some of which are literally 8 years old or more -- permanent to me!)... What about font face and sizes and spacing between different areas of content? Is vertical scrolling now good for people too? I can go on and on.

No offense for those greatly impressed by this guru's 'research' credentials, but based on my ignorant hoi polloi understanding of usability, the grandpa Nielson should check out of his Mosaic browser, disconnect from AOL (or is it Prodigy?), buy a one way ticket to Florida, and let the rest of enjoy technological progress. His time is over. Case closed, nothing else to see here. Just an angry grumpy old man who can't find his Start button.

neonspark
on Nov 20, 2012

fixing windows 8 is a lot easier than fixing windows 7. really most of the changes needed are simple and could be done in months, not years.

rx78
on Nov 20, 2012

It is fascinating to watch how propaganda machine works. Take for example this "news" - all over the internet, reprinted by countless media sites. Google news page shows same "monster and torture" title with constantly changing publishers. Guy is getting more hits now than he did when wrote about usability issues with iPad back in 2010.
Yet news about Oprah indorsing Surface went nowhere. You have more chances to read about one of her tweets sent from iPad than about Oprah, you know, actual human, talking about Surface herself. I'd love to read some propaganda gurus explaining this kind of things.

FinsUpDNC
on Nov 20, 2012

While none of my enterprise clients have put Windows 8 on the office machines, a few employees have showed up with laptops running the new OS. While some had some fear, I was able to explain to them so easily how it works.

The start screen is your new start menu, launched by the same windows button. It is just a different way of displaying your apps. There are full screen apps that can be used from start screen or your old apps as well. After 10 minutes, they seemed to get it. Most seemed to enjoy the hit the windows key and start typing what you want to do....and bam done! People always freak at change, but then once they get used to it they like it.

mercurialohearn
on Nov 20, 2012

"I’m referring to things like “cognitive overhead,” “added memory load for complex tasks,” and my personal favorite, “low information density.” That last one is classic because, as you know, what we’re all looking for is “high information density,” like those busy blogs and web sites where you can’t tell ads from articles and everything is blinking and screaming at you."

in other words, because this writer uses technical jargon i don't understand, it MUST be false (even if he explains what he's talking about using bullet points).

this is a poor criticism of neilsen's article, because it doesn't address the actual problems that neilsen highlights; it simply dismisses them out of hand, with a logical fallacy.

nohorse
on Nov 20, 2012

It's interesting that the first article is really an ad for his books and courses. Obviously Metro goes against his design guidelines. The second article I could not make it thru due to the animated GIF of crusty the clown. Personally, I like the "puzzle box" nature of windows 8. It's easy enough for what has been pushed as the lowered bar of user interaction. A single button, gestures etc. So easy a child could use it. But then there is a second layer of charms and snapping. Deeper we still have the desktop (and thank goodness for that) to get to the nitty gritty settings. Yes, you will want a keyboard and a mouse at that level. Lastly, the command line is always a few keystrokes away at any level.

That one gesture that everyone has trouble with: getting a list of running apps. I agree it's wonky, but there is a setting for that. I was really unimpressed that the first author was unable to get snapping to work. I shows a real lack of attention. If your screen is 1366 wide snapping is really easy.

In general, I dislike the trend toward stupid. The assumption championed by web 2.0 and iOS that users are just so darn stupid we need to make things absurdly simple is insulting. This tide lowers all boats. I feel younger users are more sophisticated and this user-is-stupid mentality will die off with the baby boomers.

Max Daru
on Nov 20, 2012

Just upgraded a user from XP to Windows 7 a couple of months ago. She has not stopped complaining about awful it is. The issue is, of course, that she has to learn something new.

Also, I'd say mastering the Windows 8 UI is a miniscule challenge compared to what learning the ribbon UI was in Office.

wmb
on Nov 20, 2012

Barnes is indeed a terrible writer - his message is usually lost in poor grammar and stream-of-consciousness style brain dumps, but if you can get through it he often has interesting insights into UX design. It's a shame really, because the much better-written article of Nielsen will come across as more authoritative on the subject, even though that's not the case in many respects.

olathemike
on Dec 5, 2012

This may not make sense, but I mostly agree with Nielson even though I am a power user who has been using Windows 8 on the desktop since RTM. And I plan on buying a Surface Pro (if not an Ultrabook). I think the new UI should not be called Modern UI or Metro, it should be called Sybil, for its multiple personality disorder. I have learned the quirks and mostly know my way around it, so it doesn't frighten me in the least, but I would sure hate to manage a Help Desk that had to support it.
I am very impressed with some of the behind the scenes improvements in Windows 8 and Server 2012. No GUI servers combined with PowerShell makes a lot of sense. And PowerShell 3 is superb. Don't try to run the new Server Manager on Windows 7, it won't work as far as I have been able to determine. That is the only reason that we will have any Windows 8 desktops in the enterprise anytime soon. We have not even finished migrating to Windows 7 yet.
I have to keep up with the latest, so it was a no brainer to upgrade to 8 ASAP, and there are certain things I really like about the UI, but on the whole, they have made a number of mistakes that should be correctable. One good example is the flat UI, Nielson is right on with those comments. What was wrong with buttons that looked like you could push them?
Sure we can learn new stuff, but please give us a few more clues.

Since writing these initial comments, I have gone back and reviewed the Nielsen posting and I think he is right on the money with his comments. The Scott Barnes comments are difficult to understand, but I think I disagree with his conclusions.

quietman75
on Nov 20, 2012

Personally , I do find a plain Vanila Win 8 less usefull to work with. I must have been one of the tiny percentage of Win 7 users who embraced the Desktop Widgets. I have 3 time zones , 2 excahnge rates , System usage , RDP Calander and Clock and a small selection of my daily apps all on the rigfht hand side. I can see these all the time as I dont run any program full screen , and have close to 15 programs running , and around 5 or 6 visable at a time. My desktop itself is empty of shortcuts , and dont pin programs to my taskbar. I do pin the the start menu. One thing that I'm still trying to figure out is why MS split the search options ( programs , files , settings ). Companys like Stardock must have thanked god Win8 came out like it did , as their products now can fill a void that MS created. Remember Windows Blinds ? Their products became mostly useless with the custom visual option baked into Win7. If a compnay like Stardock can "fix" the issues most people complain about why is it so difficult for MS to do them.

glonq
on Nov 21, 2012

Nielsen's target audience is others who work with UX/UI for a living, so anybody who is criticizing him for using big words that they don't understand should probably go back to 9gag.

IMO, Microsoft was so focused on the Surface and competing with the iPad that they totally forgot that 99.9% of Windows users are on desktops and laptops.

glonq
on Nov 21, 2012

Here's some examples of Win8's design and usability quirks:

- Open the Bing Weather app.
- On the first (gorgeous!) screen, you can see today's weather.
- Even though there's tons of room on the screen, you have to press a 'more' button to see a little bit more stuff that would easily have fit, even on a low-res screen. (THIS IS WTF#1)
- You want to scroll right to see the weather forecast
- ...so you move your mouse wheel up/down so that the screen will scroll left/right (THIS IS WTF#2)
- Keep scrolling, past the hourly forecast (screen #2) until you get to the maps and weather history.
- ...except you'll notice that once the mouse cursor enters the hourly forecast list, your mouse wheel doesn't scroll the app left/right anymore. It scrolls the hourly forecast list up/down instead. You have to move your mouse outside the list if you want to resume scrolling the app. (THIS IS WTF #3).

Obviously none of these are deal-breakers. But two of those three things aren't problems if you're using a touch screen. They exemplify the lack of consideration that Win8/metro has for mouse+keyboard users (the "other 99.9%")

TimG
on Nov 22, 2012

The bottom line of all this is that Windows 8 needs a Desktop mode for desktop machines with large and multiple monitors. If that had been included from the start none of this discussion would have happened. On a small machine with a touchscreen Metro makes sense and is a positive. On a desktop machine with one or more large, non-touch monitors it's generally inappropriate and space-wasting. It's also obstructive for power users working primarily in the desktop environment.

Something like this will probably appear quite soon in the Windows 8 update cycle.

satkinsn
on Nov 26, 2012

I'm very late to this thread, but wanted to add my .02.

I ran Win 8 in its various beta versions without hacking it, for the express purpose of getting used to the new interface.

However, having lived with the final shipping version of 8 on an old laptop and an old desktop for a while now, I've reluctantly concluded that Modern just isn't a marriage with older hardware.

And you know what? No big deal. I installed Start 8 on both machines and now have two very competent Windows set-ups that I use every day without any hassle at all. It's just like using Win 7, with the bonus of the desktop and backend improvements of Win 8.

There is less problem here than meets the eye.

Harry_Wild
on Nov 27, 2012

With all the work that Microsoft has put into it; they should just split it into two versions: One for non-touch screen that would have the desktop and the look of Windows 7 screens and functionality and the other for touch screens.

That way; users would feel comfortable in using Windows 8 and be productive at the same time. Windows 8 is a more efficient OS then Windows 7 but it hard to use!

Please or Register to post comments.

IT/Dev Connections

Las Vegas
September 30th - October 4th

Paul ThurottYou'll have the opportunity to experience:
• 120 Technical
Sessions
• Networking with Peers
• Expert Speakers


Come See Paul Thurrott & Mary Jo Foley in Person!

Register Now

Office 365 InfoCenter

Get the latest insight and info from Paul

Read Now!

What I Use