It’s Time to Bring Back NT

Windows NT meant something. It still can

If Microsoft is serious about fixing Windows 8 and preventing not just another Vista but a full-fledged revolt and exodus to other platforms, then it’s going to have to take some bold steps. And the first thing it should do is bring back NT.

Tech old-timers like myself fondly remember Windows NT and all it stood for. And they remember when the marketing group in Windows exorcised the NT brand, deciding that the Windows brand was both more important and more resonant with users. They were wrong on both counts. And while the resulting product, Windows 2000, with the redundant tagline “Built on NT technology,” was certainly solid enough for its day, it always left a sour taste in my mouth.

Times change, I get it. But when you examine the client versions of Windows NT you see a product that in its broad strokes has great relevance today in this new highly mobile computing world. NT was designed for workstations where Windows was for PCs. And it was aimed at power users, IT pros, and developers who preferred its power, stability, and reliability over the compatibility and relative performance of the shaky Windows 3.x/9x products of the day.

Today, Windows 8 is a hybrid OS that seeks to serve both tablets and other highly mobile devices as well as traditional PCs. But because Windows 8 includes both Metro and traditional desktop interfaces, it is optimized for neither, and is the opposite of Microsoft’s “no compromises” promise. The people who can’t stand Windows 8 are the same that used to gravitate to NT, power users, IT pros, and developers, and they would have happy-ecstatic, really—to give up the Fisher Price silliness of Metro for a desktop-only version of Windows 8 that is actually optimized for the hardware they really use.

It should be called Windows NT.

It’s time to bring back NT, both as a brand and a product, and to attach this name to a version of Windows where it will once again make sense. Windows 8/9/whatever can move forward to whatever tablet/hybrid/device future that Microsoft sees as the future of computing. And Windows NT can be the “truck,” the OS for those of us who really need to get work done.

Folks, this makes sense on more levels than you may realize.

Consider the needs of enterprises that are trying to blast remote desktops to thin clients or PCs over their internal infrastructure or the Internet. What system would be better for such clients? Windows NT would employ the Aero-less Windows 8 desktop and none of the frou-frou Metro touchiness that makes no sense in such environments.

Consider the typical business in which dozens to thousands of traditional PCs are already deployed. An upgrade to Windows NT would give them all of the security, reliability and performance benefits of Windows 8 with none of the Metro interfaces that would confuse users, require training, and be almost universally unsuitable for both those machines and for the work their users need to complete.

On and on it goes. And the reason the NT name is so important is that this name means something, and can still mean the same thing, just projected forward to a new generation of computing. Businesses would know that they can rely on NT and consumers could choose between NT and Windows, depending on their needs and their device/PC choices. NT could be installed on Windows computers and devices, and vice versa. Heck, you could treat the Metro stuff as an add-on even, much as Windows Server treats the desktop experience as an add-on today.

It’s time to bring back NT. This name, this brand, still means something. Something positive, something good. Something that’s necessary to remind customers that Microsoft hasn’t forgotten about the doers in its mad rush to satisfy the fat content consumers who only care about playing Wordament and checking Facebook with their fingers. This silliness needs to stop. And NT is the answer.

Discuss this Article 115

piebald
on Mar 11, 2013

Amen. One of your best posts on here in a long time.

rjohn05
on Mar 11, 2013

This has to be the dumbest article you have ever written. Just kidding.

I get the impression you are suggesting that Microsoft should not evolve its interfaces towards more mobile computing and that they should focus their efforts on bringing back the old NT UI paradigm. Ideally (as a developer myself), I would prefer a single environment that can operate as both a mobile interface and a desk-based interface. The dual metro-desktop interface as it stands right now is not the ideal. But i don't think the answer in the short term is for Microsoft to spend it's time emphasizing an old UI paradigm.

No. Microsoft needs to spend it's time advancing Metro into the desktop by merging the two and making the desktop more "touchable". I get it: the metro interface has extremely large buttons and tiles and is not ideal for mouse and keyboard. But I believe Microsoft can accomplish this without porting over all the huge buttons (or the "Fisher Price" interface as you call it) into the current desktop environment.

Bottom line, the two should merge and the hardware should adjust with it. monitors should be touchable and the UI should allow for more natural inputs like: mouse, keyboard, touch, voice and touchless gestures. This, in my opinion, would be the kind of Windows the world needs.

developer
on Mar 11, 2013

I agree with you, I think the best thing for Metro UI is to improve.

I am not a UI expert, but from the various UIs I have seen, probably a good approach would be to have the Metro tiles, together with the taskbar, and the taskbar providing *the system tray only*, so applications can have tray icons.

And the desktop application windows being resizeable inside the Metro UI.

WRowland
on Mar 11, 2013

With the media hounding this new version of windows at every turn for issues real (lack of apps, documentation, and beta quality of many new "metro" features) and imagined (it sucks, it's impossible to use, it's worse than what came before)... Should MS be doing something that would be taken as back-peddling, or focusing on fixing the real issues and highlighting what's good (something no one seems to do)?

JimmyFal
on Mar 11, 2013

This was either written during last weeks "drinking show", or it's April 1st.

Mark from CO
on Mar 11, 2013

Paul: As I have been saying for a long time, Microsoft only has a very short period of time to correct all of the issues with Windows 8. I agree with rjohn05 that the key is to make the desktop touchable. I'm not an IT geek, but as a user, I don't get why Metro-like apps can't be "touchable" and accessible within the desktop. I had great anticipation when I got Windows 8. I also like the way some of the Metro apps work. But the total lack of the desktop and W8 Metro Start working together is maddening, frustrating and just unexplainable. I don't get it. I won't go to a Chromebook or Apple (eternal optimist I guess!), but if Microsoft doesn't do something very significant, very quickly, many will. I initially thought Microsoft would have until the holiday season to get this fixed, but I'm not so sure now. Perception is a big thing. It's against Microsoft right now. I'm not so sure many of the OEMS aren't already moving in another direction. Microsoft, the storm is already here. DO SOMETHING BIG... and RIGHT!

UKUser
on Mar 11, 2013

Well I suppose Microsoft would argue that a single code base for all platforms is cheaper and more practical for them to maintain and build. What they could do of course is allow the system to detect its hardware and auto configure to the best configuration. Allowing metro apps to run in windows and desktop applications to run in metro app containers would help merge the two separate systems. That and sorting out an easy way for PC users to task switch metro apps, via mouse and keyboard without the annoying hot corners of course. If they can't do that via software they should release a keyboard that has proper charm keys and swipe gesture pad.

I actually like the Windows 8 start screen and in some ways having to run app full screen may make workers more productive, if they can't switch to the browser too easily. There are many ordinary users that still close a window before opening another one.

neonspark
on Mar 11, 2013

uh, well it is called windows 7. Yes there are reasons to update and many ways in which the pure desktop experience is better on windows 8, but lets face it, windows 7 still better than OSX and Linux for these "NT users" you speak of.

ultimately a pure windows 8 without the touch/metro UI is nothing that MSFT doesn't have in windows 7, and more importantly, it does nothing but undermine their already weak stance on mobile.

the correct solution is not to burry their head in the sand, as you're suggesting, and go run back to the sinking ship that is the desktop. The correct solution is to do what was done to vista: fix it.

you've already noted tons of improvements that can be done to windows 8, many of which ARE being done by 3rd party tools. but the fact remains that a lot of people do want the new API and the new touch support, they just want it packaged differently.

ultimately the biggest problem with going back to the NT days, is that the world will not follow. the world has moved on. windows 8 isn't trying to change the world, it is simply changing because the world has changed. MSFT can change, or fade away like the amiga. NT is a bridge to nowhere.

glonq
on Mar 11, 2013

The metro start screen can't be fixed. Not for corporate, where sanity and productivity are somewhat important. It's got to go. Windows ReTard edition can keep it.

alvatrus
on Mar 11, 2013

For years now, the technical people have been dominated my marketing/commercial. Instead of optimising for their user base, they optimised for the additional revenue it could bring.
When things went downhill with Vista, the leash of the technical people was slackened somewhat, and the product improved in terms of usability. Believe me, the *technical* techies know in what way their product can be improved.
Now we are back with the Store, subscription fees, etc, different sale and license models without a clearly better/improved workflow of our daily computing. The improvements are solely on Microsoft's part: to make it easier to use and purchase simple low-access and low threshold applications/apps.
We need the techies back and listen to their audience on how to actually improve Windows for them, i.e.: their customers, the paying public.

Osborn4
on Mar 11, 2013

Not all of us remember NT as fondly. We hung on to it through 2000 and didn't go to XP until SP2 was out. I remember NT as the clunky desktop that wouldn't support USB devices.

Stephen Ott
on Mar 11, 2013

I agree. I spent the last week installing Windows 8 as a dual-boot. But a couple programs still require me to boot to Windows 7. The problem is, once I am back in Windows 7, I'm not very compelled to boot back to Windows 8. I don't miss the Metro stuff at all. Every point Paul makes about why IT doesn't want to roll out Windows 8 is true. Give us something that is sorta-close to Windows 7 so we don't have to re-train everybody and change everyone's workflow.

zorb58
on Mar 11, 2013

Paul, weren't you one to say that should Microsoft release a separate version of Windows with only the desktop, Metro and Microsoft's tablet PC business would just die off like Zune causing Microsoft to increasingly be squeezed into nothing but a shrinking, albeit slowly, mature market? I was just wondering when/how your reversal in opinion came about. Or maybe you didn't change your opinion and were advocating a niche Microsoft from the start? Not trying to be an ass, I legitimately am just wondering because what you've said before about the possible death of Metro & Tablet PCs makes more sense to me than what you've outlined in this article.

bdegrande
on Mar 11, 2013

I think that the UI of 8 is not really a big issue. Will some enterprise customers not want to adopt it because of user training issues - sure, but corporate adoption of new operating systems is ALWAYS slow (and I say that as the former head of a corporate PC area), by the time they are ready to move to 8 (or, more likely, 9), I don't think the UI will be a major issue.

What "NT" is needed for is to continue the process started by 8. If Microsoft was going to take the abuse it would get from changing the US (which was inevitable, look at Ubuntu/Unity, a very similar backlash), they should have changed the underpinnings a lot more. There should no longer be a registry sapping performance in the long run. Microsoft should have blown it up and started over with a small, fast, reliable, secure core - as Microsoft did with NT and Apple did with OS X. If this means running old software in virtualization, fine, Microsoft owns good virtualization software.

One HUGE benefit from doing this is that they would have an OS which isn't too big for tablet hardware - no more 2 lb. tablets or fans.

If they do this, I don't think the UI matters all that much, although it would obviously have to be a touch UI for tablets, and Office still needs to be a lot better optimized for touch than the RT version is currently.

Moochy
on Mar 11, 2013

I have used Windows since 3.1. I currently have three PC's built by me. I enjoy configuring my own machines. I have not purchased a PC since my first Compaq and discovered what a rip big manufacturers are. Anyways, I tried Win 8 Pro for a few months and went back to Windows 7 Pro on all three machines. I love Win 7 and intend to use it for as long as possible. The wife uses an HP notebook Win 7 for her job and prefers Win 7. Win 8 Metro is for tablets/phones and kids. Microsoft forgot the vast majority of it's users do not have touch screens. I am an old fashioned desktop user and will remain so. I like REAL PC power. Balmer is an idiot. Trying to ram Metro down the throats of his customer base is short sided. He just wants to sell apps and get a better entry into mobile. Good luck with that, the hounds ahead of him are already nearing the last turn. Windows 8 smacks of desperation and lack of quality thinking IMO. There was/is no need to "upgrade" from Win 7 and MS knows it...their Win 7 success and longer PC life due to processor power really messed up any release of a "New Windows" and so we got the clown show...Metro.

Jonathan Potter
on Mar 11, 2013

But but but.. Metro is the future, right? That's what you've been telling us for months now.

pthurrott
on Mar 11, 2013

Yawn. Yes, it is the future. Microsoft has been telling us that, not me.

What I'm saying is we live in the present. There are 1.3 billion PCs in use. And Metro is not suitable for any of them.

Thanks for trying to find some contradiction that doesn't exist.

Keleko
on Mar 11, 2013

Sorry, Paul, you don't get off that easy. From your Windows 8 : Verdict review:

"Today, we stand at a dividing line in history, the line between the traditional PC past and the touch-based mobile device future. And Windows 8 was made for the future, not the past.

This is exactly as it should be."

You don't make any distinction between you and MS in the closing line of the review.

pthurrott
on Mar 11, 2013

Yep, made for the future. We live in the present. It's unclear how often I need to repeat that.

More to the point, when Windows 8 first shipped, there were no new devices on which to test it. I've now used many of them. And I prefer regular PCs. Not everyone will. But not everyone is a writer and needs that kind of thing. Cars didn't replace trucks. They live side by side.

JoJo
on Mar 12, 2013

I don't mind Paul changing his opinion on things (we're all entitled to do that) but it's annoying that he can't just stand up and admit it. Maybe he doesn't even see it himself.

pthurrott
on Mar 12, 2013

I guess I don't understand what's changed. The touch-based interfaces and mobile devices enabled by Windows 8 are the future of mainstream computing. And current Windows users would benefit from learning these interfaces now and not resisting the inevitable.

What I'm saying here is just that there is a side use case that may not be going away. And this audience would be served by a more traditional Windows offering. That doesn't mean Windows 8 is "wrong" or whatever, or that this traditional Windows offering is suddenly now the future.

I'm also stating what should be obvious to anyone who reads this site: That given my needs, I currently fall into the latter camp. This is not controversial nor should it be unexpected.

So help me understand what's confusing now.

jimbie882
on Mar 12, 2013

I was still hung up on your previous position, which was "And Windows 8 was made for the future, not the past." And then you carved up a present case (the near future) for Windows NT.

Clearly, Microsoft wanted to have Windows 8 as the present and future. That's why they even bothered to have the desktop, which address continuing demand for the old paradigm of traditional computing.

What's wrong was the Metro UI. It was a mistake. It is hard to learn. It is hard on the eyes. The dual mode with the desktop is difficult to master. Either you get used to Metro or you just go to the desktop. There is no in-between.

The present case for Windows NT, which is what I believe you're trying to carve out a near future for the traditional desktop is already in Windows 8. So why can't we have the best of both worlds by augmenting the Metro UI to the Start button instead of the other way around?

Another thing is Windows 7 and 8 has the taskbar. It could be easily adapted to be a dynamic tool bar that can function as a mini Metro Start Menu. If the desktop is modified to work well on a touch screen, think of the possibilities of evolving the desktop to a true touch interface. In contrast, I always thought the iPad/iPhone screen was a desktop with all the icons laid-out. You see the same thing with the Android. There is nothing hard to understand with these interfaces.

What's confusing? We don't need Windows NT. We need Microsoft to fix Windows 8 to be more useful with desktop computers with or without touch screens. On the other hand, mobile devices needs to have a less complicated Metro UI screen with the ability to use desktop programs.

thalter
on Mar 11, 2013

Paul, I'm pretty much your age, but I don't have the same warm fuzzies about 1990's computing that you do. Don't get me wrong: I loved Windows NT, and have been using the server and workstation versions since 3.51.

No, what I don't miss is the balkanization of the Windows ecosystem. Having to support crappy downlevel Windows 3.x/9x clients, who I desperately wished were all running NT instead. I also don't miss the poor vendor support for NT - buying a piece of hardware and praying I could find NT drivers for it, or having to pay way more for SCSI drives and scanners because NT didn't support USB.

When Microsoft finally combined the consumer/desktop/server kernels in Windows XP/2003, that was the best thing that ever happened. Users got a rock solid client so good that it is still in widespread use a decade later. Pros got full access to the consumer device ecosystem.

No the solution to fixing Windows 8 isn't forking the code that Microsoft worked so hard to merge. Microsoft needs to make a few simple fixes to the existing product.

Fix #1 - Bring back the start menu. I've been running Windows 8 as a professional software developer for nearly a year, and the start screen is still a jarring mess. I still can't find anything, and miss the simple alphabetized and categorized list of the old start menu.

Fix #2 - Allow metro apps to run in a Window. I can count on zero hands the number of metro apps I've used. Mainly it is because full screen apps make about as much sense on a 24" monitor as a touch-screen TV. If I could run them windowed, I might be willing to give some metro apps a try, especially since many of the other aspects of Metro (app store, sandboxing, simplified updating and cloud synchronization of data and settings) are so appealing.

milky_cereal
on Mar 11, 2013

thalter, I agree with you. I normally appreciate and even agree with most of what Paul writes, but I think he's making a mistake here. NT wasn't such a warm and fuzzy time as you point out here. I don't think that the Start Menu should be brought back, it is truly an abomination, and something that I rarely use anymore on my work computer, with pinning and universal search (which is now worse in Windows 8 IMHO). But the Start Screen definitely needs improvements. And, as someone that is trying to administer a Windows 2012 server over RDP or LogMeIn, we need some sort of button we can press to bring up the Start Screen. Trying to find the edge of a RDP window so you can click in the one pixel area to hit the Start Screen is maddening.

Ultimately I think all of this back and forth truly shows how difficult this transition is for MS, the industry, and end users. There are no simple answers. Each potential track that they could take is like an NYC road, filled with potholes, traffic, detours and insane drivers. All of that work that MS did to finally combine the two codebases would be all for naught under this plan, dooming the Metro model to failure.

sekyal
on Mar 11, 2013

I'm more for the direction Microsoft is heading, I don't think we need to go back to the past. I just agree with you that they are doing it wrong.
I disagree on the Start Menu coming back though. I basically stopped using during Vista since I could search quicker or in Win7, pin to the taskbar. The new Start Screen is more efficient once organized into groups, but it does need improvements, mainly smaller icons/tiles being available.
Fix 2 I absolutely agree with. I liked it initially but most Metro apps do not take advantage of the space available, it is wasted or like they designed them for tablets, they don't work on larger screens. Snapping is helpful but not enough. I'm really liking ModernMix from Stardock to solve the Metro apps problem. I can make the windows any size for a Metro app or just maximize but keep the taskbar showing (like Microsoft should at least have done in the first place).
I just wish I didn't have to spend money to get the functionality I should already have had in the OS.

jason404
on Mar 11, 2013

Well, NT is known to stand for New technology and it would be the opposite of that. Maybe Microsoft should call it Microsoft Desktop OS (DOS) instead?

It's clear that Microsoft added the RT environment onto Windows to leverage its huge user numbers to kickstart the new mobile platform, so doing this would do less to persuade developers in writing Metro apps for it. They're bad enough as it is.

More realistically, they should re-enable the ability to turn off the Metro environment in the registry.

ScubaDog2008
on Mar 11, 2013

I could not disagree more vehemently. I grew up with all that. I suffered the pain of NT 3 until 4 finally got decent. I don't understand all the resistance from so-called power users to embracing Windows 8. I'm not looking back. I'm not stuck in the "way we've always done it" concept. I just feel like lining everyone of these people and slapping them solidly across the face. I am absolutely convinced that Windows 8 and Metro is the way to go and that having this hybrid OS for now is the right thing since A) Metro apps aren't fully mature and B) there are considerably large numbers of legacy programs people need to use. But it's no excuse NOT to push as hard as possible to push Metro into its full potential. I just don't believe you people get what that potential is and how to drive it. Instead, you all seem to want to apply a death grip to cascades of windows and a Start button. NT can die.

Rxdiaz
on Mar 11, 2013

I could not agree more. Let MS do whatever it wants to evolve to mobile but leave the damn desktop alone. How can they expect any company to roll out Windows 8 with this Metro nonsense? And don't even get me started on Server 2012! I almost died when I saw the WP8 screen on it. And like you said, my clients use Terminal Services extensively. There would have been a lynching (of me) if they logged in one day and saw Metro. I immediately had to roll back to Server 2008 R2.

But I think you didn't mention the most important fact. The Windows 8 brand is totally trashed. They can come out with Blue, Green, Yellow, whatever. The Windows 8 brand is DEAD to corporations (and a lot of users too). Strip out Metro and rebrand it as Windows NT and give corporations and desktop users a new road forward. You want to keep pushing Metro and Windows 8 be my guest. But don't throw your business and power users under the bus.

developer
on Mar 11, 2013

Ahh... Windows NT.

As a power user, I was using Windows NT 4.0 Workstation, instead of Windows 98/98 SE. I even recommended it to people I knew, because of its stability.

But it had experimental PnP support (available to be installed from its installation CD, although I did not recommend installing it); so it was not of much good for casual home users, with various peripherals and games.

I still run Windows NT 4.0 under VirtualBox. :-)

After NT 4.0, I went to Windows 2000 Professional, which was initially the expected version where, the NT line would become available both for companies and home users. This happened with Windows XP eventually.

However Windows 2000 had compatibility updates available for various PC games.

With Windows XP the merge finally happened.

All these Windows version, when running winver.exe, they reported Windows NT version_number. Now Windows does not report the word "NT", but Windows version_number.

Microsoft has an issue with decent names indeed, it uses only boring names, Windows this, Windows that. The name is an important issue.

Another fact is, that world is not stationary, it moves forward.

I think that now is the time of Free Software (the term is not about the price - http://freesoftwaredeveloper.blogspot.gr/2013/03/what-is-free-software.html).

Power users are already using Free Software, like Linux, and recommend it to others.

It may sound "unconventional" to some people in here, but Microsoft has a lot to benefit by providing its software, as Free Software. It will see an innovation explosion, in all fronts.

Windows as a Free Software, would improve dramatically.

The next big thing, looks like will be the Cloud.

I think Microsoft is like a sleeping old guy, living in the past. The best for it, is to wake up soon.

jhigh2000
on Mar 11, 2013

Why not just disable the metro start screen, boot to directly to the desktop and add a start button replacement (which you incidentally are against)? Does that not effectively turn Windows 8 into "NT"?

babywhiz
on Mar 13, 2013

Friend of mine upgraded to Windows 8 last night. She was trying to play World of Warcraft. Just a game. Couldn't stay connected. Kept getting blue screens. For a game.

Most of the software we run for our manufacturing machines won't even run on Windows 8.

Not everyone can just do a 'simple' upgrade and 'learn how to use the new UI'.

Take a stroll to your local manufacturing facility. Maybe they make rims for your car....or parts for your airplanes...or Red Solo cups.

Get a feel for what the rest of us have to work with.

dunnsantee
on Mar 11, 2013

Doesn't the Surface Pro represent how Microsoft sees Windows 8 and how it should/can be used? If you want to use it as a 'tablet' while you are being 'mobile' you have the Metro environment. If you want to use it as a 'workstation' and 'get stuff done' you have the traditional desktop environment from which to work. It seems to me MS should obviously fix those inherent problems one has with a new software release, but maybe also do a better job of informing potential new customers of the dual environments from which to work from within the Surface Pro.

jimbie882
on Mar 11, 2013

They should certainly fix Windows 8, but I don't understand why Windows NT needs to be revived. Windows NT will have the same marketing confusion as Windows 8 RT. RT NT. What's the difference? Also, fix the naming conventions of the Metro UI and Windows RT. Stop using these weird names that sounds technical and mean little to users.

They need to fix Windows 8 to have the Start button for all non-touch PCs. Allow the disabling of the Metro UI for non-touch PC especially if the desktop user doesn't need the Metro Apps.

Make the Metro UI easier to use. Also, I hate the primary colors. Make it easier on the eyes. I prefer artwork, gradients, transparency, and imagery. Fix the jarring transitions. Make the Start Screen a pleasant place to spend one's time. They should also allow the user the option to use apps in a Windowed box on the desktop (yes, I've seen the new program that does this).

misterliteral
on Mar 11, 2013

There are several things here:

1. I love this idea
2. It makes WAY too much sense for MS to adopt
3. I’d love to hear what the world has moved on to

There are numerous comments about how the world has moved on. To what? It’s not iOS or Android or Mac OS or Chrome or Linux, so if this is coming from someone managing a corporate environment, which is what Paul seems to be advocating with regard to NT, what have you switched your users to now that the world has “moved on”?

For the few people who commented who seem to think Paul is advocating literally bringing back NT 3 or 4 as they were…wow.

MediaCastleX
on Mar 11, 2013

Calling for the two heads of the baby before it can walk, eh? This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object...I'll leave the community to debate which is which.

smoothbond
on Mar 11, 2013

Paul Thurrott I have one word for you right now, just one. PREACH

BojiDean
on Mar 11, 2013

Two quick notes as a MSFT fan: First, I would like to see MSFT adopt an IBM strategy of an explicit OS for an explicit purpose. I can’t help but think of the Mainframe and z/OS, iSeries and i/OS, pSeries and AIX, xSeries and Windows, etc… What IBM has realized is that different options are needed for different scenarios. Microsoft has successfully accomplished this with the Xbox and the gaming scenario for example. Secondly, MSFT needs to absolutely rock the user interface. I own an iPad and my 12 month old can start the device, launch Skype, and video call his aunt. It’s not that the iPad is running some superior piece of anything. The point is, someone totally got the user interface right. It’s so good a baby can use it. That in itself cannot be understated… Do you hear us developers? So easy a baby can use it. Windows 8 so difficult third parties and OEMs have to come to the rescue. Come on, you guys are better than that (kindly speaking)…

glonq
on Mar 11, 2013

Paul, you are 110% correct. Split up windows so that there is more distinction between "Pro" and "Home" editions. Release Pro every 3 years and keep the interface conservative. Update Home annually; keep it fresh and interesting.

developer
on Mar 11, 2013

I think MS must do, what it did with Windows XP Service Pack 2 concerning the major security issues Windows XP had:

As you mention at: http://winsupersite.com/product-review/windows-xp-service-pack-2-advance...

"Last summer, Microsoft was prepping a dramatically different Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) release than the one we're soon going to get. Back then, the plan was to deliver a simple set of critical security patches and hot-fixes in a convenient single install, combined with all of the updates and fixes the company had shipped a year earlier in XP Service Pack 1 (SP1). Then the Slammer worm hit and everything changed. Microsoft corporate vice president Jim Allchin, who knew the company was prepping a sweeping set of security improvements for inclusion in Longhorn, the next major release of Windows, also knew that Longhorn was years away and would arrive far too late to stop future Slammer-type attacks. Finally, Allchin decided enough was enough. He ground Longhorn development to a virtual standstill and told the Windows development team it had a new priority: Deliver a reenergized Windows XP SP2 that would include many of the security enhancements Microsoft had planned for Longhorn. And get it done as soon as possible".

They must stop working on Windows 9, backport all current Metro fixes to Windows 8, and complete fixing Metro at Windows 8 soon.

Wambie
on Mar 11, 2013

Never go back works for relationships with people and computers. I think if you went back to NT back now you would find you hate it more than Vista. It was good for its time but its certainly not lets bring back the 80's good. I am fine with Windows 8 I use metro on RT but I never use it on my desktop but I still like to know its there. I feel it was a good first attempt at a bold change and given how WP7 has matured into WP8 I feel the same will come for Windows 8 following Blue. They will find a way to integrate Metro into the PC desktop in a way that makes sense. I am one of those people who never really used the start menu and now that is has gone I do not even miss it. Viva La Metro / Viva Win8

Daniel D
on Mar 11, 2013

The big issue for Windows 8 and Phone for that matter is that Microsoft is acting all hip and cool, but still internally moving at a glacier speed and thinking its old pricing and licensing model will hold up against Android. Long term it simply can't.

Windows 8 is trying to be all things, a mobile platform and desktop and do it all on a pricing model that worked for XP. Consumers don't like it and in particular Microsoft’s partners don't like it.

Like them or loath them Google have changed the OS business forever, but most tellingly, year after year they get better at offering hardware vendors an alternative. Android on the phone is only the start.

Microsoft has to have a hard talk with its shareholders. The days of being a monopoly and getting the revenues they once did are in the case of the consumer space at least, coming to an end.

They need to break up the company into smaller more agile teams that are more cost effective. Then they need to fight for mind and market share and that means spending money and existing on smaller margins.

That is the future I believe Microsoft is struggling with right now.

Asgard
on Mar 11, 2013

I don't agree at all. As a developer I really want to see a single platform (even on phones) where apps can be simply configured to run on multiple screen sizes. This is already relatively easy in web, and should be relatively easy on XAML. Our small company would hugely benefit on this and that's why I see much sense in what MS is currently doing. Not ready yet but good direction...

Netflix is an example where Metro makes a lot of sense. I can easily see the UI from sofa and hit where I want with a wireless mouse from a great distance. The experience is as good on desktop. The video automatically pauses when I do something else and continues when I go back. It is full screen without additional clicks. Simplicity that no desktop application provides, and would never been developed to desktop even if possible. We are already starting to see benefits of this new way of thinking.

"What I'm saying is we live in the present. There are 1.3 billion PCs in use. And Metro is not suitable for any of them."

Metro does not make sense all the time. Mostly because the apps are incomplete. But even if Metro would not mean anything to those 1.3 B people, Windows 8 still does. Enterprise machines are usually slow and W8 speeds them up nicely. Because of this almost all of our company's computers have been upgraded to W8, with not many complaints. Everything can be made available from desktop so Metro is not really mandatory, and even less mandatory with some modifications from third parties like Stardock (if wanted). Those have not been very popular so it can't be that bad...

Ludikraut
on Mar 11, 2013

I was a big fan of NT and all subsequent products based on it. However, I disagree that Microsoft should bring back "NT". What they do need to enable is a clean Workstation product, which is either achievable via the existing Enterprise product or by introducing a new Workstation product to the Windows 8 stable. Either way, the Metro interface should be either removed altogether, or be disabled via a registry/policy setting. With what Stardock is doing, Windows 8 becomes more palatable, but, like others here, I really have developed no interest in running Windows 8. Heck even my tablet is collecting dust, as I just can't get motivated to remove the beta and go with a full copy of Win 8 on it.

jwpear
on Mar 11, 2013

As professional developer that’s spent 18 years writing software for enterprises, your proposal sounds like a good approach. However, doesn’t Microsoft eventually lose the enterprise if they can’t find the magic ingredient to appeal to consumers? Won’t the enterprise stakeholders eventually prefer the alternate platforms if they grow increasingly comfortable with them? Didn’t consumers drive the adoption of PC’s in the enterprise? Maybe, maybe not, but I’ve spent many years writing software to replace difficult to use mainframe/mini systems. I tend to agree with the points Hal made in his recent “What if Microsoft had done Windows 8 differently” post: http://hal2020.com/2013/03/07/what-if-microsoft-had-done-windows-8-diffe....

I picked up the Surface Pro recently and it has helped me better understand some of the choices MS made in the Metro UI. I feel like there is something good in the works there and it will get better with time.

I think MS’s biggest mistake is not iterating through releases quickly enough to address the usability of the OS for PC users and the metro apps. I certainly expected faster improvements. I really don’t understand why the Windows division can’t move as fast as the VS and TFS teams.

You make some good points. I especially like the idea of Metro as an add-on. I'd personally like to see Microsoft make improvements to the usability of Windows 8 before they make a decision to split Windows again. I guess you could argue they've already done that.

Waethorn
on Mar 11, 2013

I don't get the b*tching and chewing about Windows 8. It's a full-screen Start Menu. If it was called that, then nobody would care.

When we went from a drop-down File menu in Office 2010 to a full-screen Backstage view in Office 2013, nobody was complaining.

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

FlyerMike
on Mar 11, 2013

Here's the thing ... Microsoft doesn't even have to maintain two separate products like they did in the 9x/NT days. Windows 8 and NT could share all of the same underlying technologies, just one has the Metro crap and candy UI and the other just has a less resource intensive desktop. Paul is right here -- MS is facing a real threat of losing desktop users to other platforms if they don't stop this hybrid OS nonsense.

lctb51
on Mar 11, 2013

All of this is all wrong, they should release a Windows 7 SE and update everything and make it as fast as Windows 8. A Windows 7 Second Edition would be very successful in my opinion. I would be for a Windows 7 SE, and they can further slimline the kernel, etc and add the option to include Metro menu if you havea tablet.

Wagner
on Mar 11, 2013

One word: Genius!

tboggs13
on Mar 11, 2013

I actually like the duality of Windows 8, because the desktop needs to look and be different than a tablet. However there needs to be a way to make it more seamless. Instead of a Metro app and a desktop app, it should be one app with different GUI's. Sort of like going from Metro IE to Desktop IE, but it should work in both directions and automatically when I transition from docked to tablet mode.

Also, I am not fond of the NT days and the mandatory weekly reboots. I supported a lot of NT servers and they were crap compared to Netware of the time.

I don't mind the Start screen as a replacement for the Start Menu, but I would like the button back.

BillG
on Mar 11, 2013

A good start would be to improve service. A Surface Pro retuned to Microsoft on Mon Mar 4 and *:35 Am has not been returned or replaced, and there is no one at Microsoft to talk to who can take responsibility for resolution.

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