It’s Time to Bring Back NT

Windows NT meant something. It still can

If Microsoft is serious about fixing Windows 8 and preventing not just another Vista but a full-fledged revolt and exodus to other platforms, then it’s going to have to take some bold steps. And the first thing it should do is bring back NT.

Tech old-timers like myself fondly remember Windows NT and all it stood for. And they remember when the marketing group in Windows exorcised the NT brand, deciding that the Windows brand was both more important and more resonant with users. They were wrong on both counts. And while the resulting product, Windows 2000, with the redundant tagline “Built on NT technology,” was certainly solid enough for its day, it always left a sour taste in my mouth.

Times change, I get it. But when you examine the client versions of Windows NT you see a product that in its broad strokes has great relevance today in this new highly mobile computing world. NT was designed for workstations where Windows was for PCs. And it was aimed at power users, IT pros, and developers who preferred its power, stability, and reliability over the compatibility and relative performance of the shaky Windows 3.x/9x products of the day.

Today, Windows 8 is a hybrid OS that seeks to serve both tablets and other highly mobile devices as well as traditional PCs. But because Windows 8 includes both Metro and traditional desktop interfaces, it is optimized for neither, and is the opposite of Microsoft’s “no compromises” promise. The people who can’t stand Windows 8 are the same that used to gravitate to NT, power users, IT pros, and developers, and they would have happy-ecstatic, really—to give up the Fisher Price silliness of Metro for a desktop-only version of Windows 8 that is actually optimized for the hardware they really use.

It should be called Windows NT.

It’s time to bring back NT, both as a brand and a product, and to attach this name to a version of Windows where it will once again make sense. Windows 8/9/whatever can move forward to whatever tablet/hybrid/device future that Microsoft sees as the future of computing. And Windows NT can be the “truck,” the OS for those of us who really need to get work done.

Folks, this makes sense on more levels than you may realize.

Consider the needs of enterprises that are trying to blast remote desktops to thin clients or PCs over their internal infrastructure or the Internet. What system would be better for such clients? Windows NT would employ the Aero-less Windows 8 desktop and none of the frou-frou Metro touchiness that makes no sense in such environments.

Consider the typical business in which dozens to thousands of traditional PCs are already deployed. An upgrade to Windows NT would give them all of the security, reliability and performance benefits of Windows 8 with none of the Metro interfaces that would confuse users, require training, and be almost universally unsuitable for both those machines and for the work their users need to complete.

On and on it goes. And the reason the NT name is so important is that this name means something, and can still mean the same thing, just projected forward to a new generation of computing. Businesses would know that they can rely on NT and consumers could choose between NT and Windows, depending on their needs and their device/PC choices. NT could be installed on Windows computers and devices, and vice versa. Heck, you could treat the Metro stuff as an add-on even, much as Windows Server treats the desktop experience as an add-on today.

It’s time to bring back NT. This name, this brand, still means something. Something positive, something good. Something that’s necessary to remind customers that Microsoft hasn’t forgotten about the doers in its mad rush to satisfy the fat content consumers who only care about playing Wordament and checking Facebook with their fingers. This silliness needs to stop. And NT is the answer.

Discuss this Article 115

sege122
on Mar 11, 2013

I used Windows NT. I get it. A separate enterprise ready OS. However bear in mind NT 4.0 got to service pack 6a!

I think business will probably just stick with Windows 7 for a while. Infrastructure is desktop application based and 'metro' just doesn't fit in.

However I think the biggest reason that Windows 8 is falling behind is that 'metro' apps just are not very good. I do try and use the new apps. I have a standard cheap laptop and a standard cheap desktop. They are not touch enabled. However my take on the experience is that 'metro' apps are too immature. Most desktop Windows users have a variety of reasonably sophisticated applications and the 'metro' apps just lack functionality.

The Microsoft built-in apps should be cheerleaders for the platform but when you have a mail app without pop3 support, a music app that struggles to manage your music, no real productivity apps.Once you strip out the eye candy there is almost no reason to run a 'metro' app. The eye candy is the app and there is nothing deeper.

I believe a lot of commentators have said this, including here, that there should be a 'boot to the desktop' option. There are no business apps for 'metro' at this point.

I think the Windows 8 desktop experience is excellent. it seems very stable and the performance is great. Those are good business reasons to implement Windows 8.

Microsoft needs to get the 'metro' experience out of 'beta' to sell the new start screen.

jwpear
on Mar 11, 2013

Excellent point--Microsoft's apps should be cheerleaders for the OS. It's truly a shame they're not.

satkinsn
on Mar 11, 2013

Nah. I went to get my taxes done today, and my long time accountant was using her tax software, which required working on the right side of the screen. Sure enough, the charms bar kept appearing. You know what she did? She moved the mouse back until it disappeared and kept going. It barely registered. I'm on 8 all day, every day and almost never use Metro - and I never see the full screen tiled interface, (other than the start screen) unless I want to. I just don't see how 8 can bother people, unless they go out of their way to be bothered.

Scott A.

brians
on Mar 12, 2013

I think you underestimate just how much the second or two it takes her to correct for the Charms bar intrusion disrupts her work. Quite simply it interrupts your train of thought. And Windows 8 is rife with such interrupts. For example, every time you try to bring up the start screen with the mouse you have to wait a second or two. The most egregious example is when I needed to sort photos from the desktop. Every time I needed to look at more than a thumbnail I was forced into the very under-powered "Metro" Photos app. It required two or more clicks/keystrokes to get back, then I needed to refocus Explorer to do my manipulation. It literally made a simple task 2-3 times longer. I finally gave up and made a concerted effort to make Windows 8 as "Metro"-less as possible. (I wrote this up in my personal blog here: http://computingcompendium.blogspot.com/2013/01/how-to-live-with-windows...)

So I agree with Paul, that power users need either no-Metro or a less intrusive Metro. And Paul isn't really changing his view here, he said this early on (as did many others... Microsoft should have seen this coming). Unfortunately, I'm not sure I would wish Windows 8 on consumers either. Microsoft is running out of time to fix this. Intel for example has a project that is optimizing Android for mainstream "PC" hardware. Several of the more user-friendly versions of Linux are considering moving into the vacuum. (Ubuntu has a major initiative that should bear fruit in early 2014.) All of the major OEMs are desperately looking for alternatives to Windows 8.

satkinsn
on Mar 13, 2013

I used to be firmly in the "interface makes a big difference" camp. In fact, I wrote a screed about OS X when it was still in testing which concluded it wasn't anywhere near as useful as the classic Mac OS and was thus doomed to fail. I learned a lot from that experience, the most important lesson being that interface experts tend to overstate the importance of cognitive problems. My experience is, most people just adjust to the interface they're working with, and move on.

Scott A.

LemonSaucy
on Mar 11, 2013

Very good article. I tend to agree. 'Was one of the ones who wanted Windows 2000 named Windows NT 5.0 'cause that's what it was.

Even Windows 8 is a version of Windows NT. Just check the numbering and sure enough it is a version of Windows NT. Metro is just a monetized marketing scheme bolted on top of Windows NT 6.2

I like the name NT and would install it w/o hesitation. For the time being I'm settling on Windows 7 (also known as Windows NT 6.1)

So, yeah, right on Paul. I love you.

BxPete
on Mar 11, 2013

I hope that NT does not rise again since IMHO it is not in the same league as Windows 8 or 7. I have developed for every version of Windows and even though there are some issues with Windows 8, I find that it is a good OS. I have developed a bioinformatics application that is completely touch driven, uses a database, prints, has help pages, and many interactive views, etc. and runs on both Surface RT and Pro and it can easily be used as a replacement for a similar Windows 7/8 desktop version. Once a user gets over the initial learning curve, the user will find that it is quite a nice system. I have seamlessly connected the Surface Pro and another 64-bit Laptop (non-touch) running Windows 8 to a second monitor with the screen extended. On both computer configurations, multiple instances of VS2012 were running, code was copied and pasted between VS2012 instances and installation of Windows Store Apps were installed locally and remotely using WiFi to a Surface RT and to a Pro (before VS2012 was installed on it). Apps were easily debugged on all devices. No problems watching streaming movies and playing games. Of course, I want core Apps to be improved, but this will happen. Keep in mind that Windows 8 has only been out since Fall 2012 and keep in mind that this is a paradigm shift which requires a different use model and hardware and software design. It appears to me that people are waiting for improved hardware that will leverage the new capabilities provided by Windows 8 and waiting to see how Microsoft does on updates. I keep wanting to touch the screens on my non-touch computers since it seems so natural to do so. I have compared it to the iPad which I find lacking in quality of Apps and extensive usability that the Surface computers offer. I am not sure that Windows 8 deserves all of the negative comments that are coming its way. I hope that computer manufacturers will start producing and stop complaining.

Backup77
on Mar 11, 2013

Hi Paul interesting post with plenty of food for thought. I believe the start button\menu has to return to windows 8 for wider mainstream user acceptance in the form of service pack\major update. Have set up laptops running windows 8, many users are finding it hard to navigate around in their daily workflow and as s result productivity suffers.

SamR
on Mar 11, 2013

I like your idea Paul but I do not have any issue with Windows 8 really. I go straight to the desktop and all is good. Yeah the Metro Apps on a desktop machine with a large and high definition display are a joke, seriously are we supposed to use these cartoon like programs?

Rather than selling a Windows NT why not have a switch in the control panel to convert Windows 8 Pro to a lean and mean Windows NT? Make it so you have to "Opt In" after purchase or installation. That way all the tech heads and smarties can get what they want (and switch back later) and everyone else has Metro foisted down their throats.

MS could do this easily with their Anytime Upgrade technology.

chrishedlund@gm...
on Mar 11, 2013

The following line sums up the exact reason I will not be deploying Windows 8 in the 100+ computer network I manage in a healthcare environment:

"the Metro interfaces that would confuse users, require training, and be almost universally unsuitable for both those machines and for the work their users need to complete."

prettyconfusd
on Mar 11, 2013

The NT brand means nothing to me and I'm 29 so I can't imagine anyone younger than me getting all warm an fuzzy when they hear the name.

You're correct that Windows needs to evolve into two products, and I've thought for a while that you'll get these:

Windows: This will run a much better metro environment where the desktop is literally an app that you only go into on the rare occasion you need something that can't be accomplished with a more advanced Metro environment. This would scale from 4" phones upwards and be the kind of machines you could use your phone and then plug it into a dock and turn it into a tablet or a desktop. This is for the consumer market.

Windows Pro: The NT you're suggesting. The desktop would be a larger part of this and metro apps would be better integrated into the desktop like with the new StarDock utilities to let them run in windows.

Still, as metro evolves the need for something like this will decrease until it's only for enterprise and pro users.

They definitely don't need the NT branding though. But they should ditch the numbering and the RT for something simpler. NT is as meaningless as RT to most people.

azinec
on Mar 11, 2013

Windows NT could mean Non Tablet.

adyzim
on Mar 11, 2013

Makes a good headline, but I'm getting tired with all this win 8 bashing. Maybe this is just a good headline to follow the current trend of frankly some plan daft comments. If you have a problem with 8, use 7. Is 7 faster than 8...no. Period. Simple fact, my laptop which has been upgraded from XP-Vista (not by me)- win7 to now wp8, boots so quickly that I can glance my start screen summaries, new mail, headlines, and w key-D and still be at my desktop screen faster than I would have been using 7. Yes its hybrid, yes its new, yes it has rough edges, but please don't say or repeat Samsung nonsense that its another vista. I agree we a number of commentators who have highlighted poor hardware options, and little innovation.

Name of User
on Mar 11, 2013

Talking about operational systems in 2013 is like talking about steam engine vs diesel in 20-s. I mean, who cares? It's a railroad. Please, load us in New York and unload in San Francisco.
Oh, you don't serve this route? Sorry then.

Microsoft with Win RT committed the biggest crime in industry - it presumed anyone cares about the fact it is Microsoft or Win RT.

Unless they wake up and make 1.5 bln existing devices are relevant, Microsoft has died.

dregourd
on Mar 11, 2013

A fatal dead-end
Paul, we have to admit it (as we do it with some pain and regrets): Windows is stuck in a dead-end that can be fatal to it.
Today I went to the phone store to renew my phone: I wanted more or less to continue on Windows phone. But the local operator is lazy on Windows 8, so did the guy in the shop, and I finally get a Sony Xperia phone.
Let me tell you : after two years on Windows phone 7, using Android is like walking without a backpack full of stones! And it is the same with the desktop system. Who cares about Microsoft anymore in this world?
When I see all the things a mid range Android phone can do, that a high end Windows phone cannot do, really, I can only envision a fatal end for Microsoft's systems.
Microsoft just missed the moon with its rocket, and now the rocket is lost.
Yes it was a better, a smarter rocket, but it missed the target.
Even if Nokia wins design prices with the Lumias, these phones will never fit the daily needs of the users, while android and iphone do it superbly. RIP Windows.

sevenacids
on Mar 11, 2013

I'm a little bit confused about this article. I mean, I have the impression that I missed something. Didn't I? Because, during the past months, I guess even back as far as the first BUILD in September 2011, you were always touting people in your articles and on Windows Weekly to embrace "change". And now that the "change" (a.k.a. Windows 8) has finally arrived, you're telling us we need another NT? You don't like to embrace the "change" anymore?

pthurrott
on Mar 11, 2013

I'm saying that Windows 8 is absolutely the future, but that Microsoft needs to create something that makes sense for now as well. There are simply too many PCs in the world for which the Metro interfaces are not adequate. Metro and Windows 8 will improve over time, sure. As will the devices designed specifically for them. But that doesn't help the 1.3 billion traditional PC users who can't ever take advantage of that system.

Daniel D
on Mar 12, 2013

Paul has changed his tune on this one, as of course, he is entitled to do. The 1.3 billion odd folks were certainly around during the beta phase of Win 8, but we didn't hear the NT story from Paul at that time as you point out.

Personally I think Win 8 is less of an issue for Microsoft then Office 365. If ever an opportunity was created to make some cracks in the Office suites dominance of the market, Microsofts new pay month licensing for consumers should certainly do it. Consumers paying monthly for Office is a solution to a problem no one ever asked.
I can't believe they are being so reckless with yet another cash cow.

chrishedlund@gm...
on Mar 11, 2013

Actually, the more I think about it, the more this article makes sense.

Folks, back in the day, Microsoft, of course, had two separate products. One for consumer, Windows 98 and one for enterprise, Windows 2000, of course. With Windows XP, of course, Microsoft brought those to products into the same code base.

With Windows 8, of course, Microsoft could continue to serve both markets with the same code based product. To do this, all Microsoft would have to do, of course, would be to create a Windows 8 "Professional" SKU that booted directly to the desktop and had the familiar start button. This SKU would also, of course, never default to any Metro app. When a user in an enterprise environment clicked on a PDF attachment from an Outlook email and it opened in the Metro full screen Reader app, that's when confusion ensues and the tech support calls start taking place, of course. So in other words, in the enterprise, the user says in the desktop environment throughout the entire experience, of course.

The default experience in the home environment, or on a tablet device would be to boot directly to the Metro environment, of course. This SKU would be the same code base, of course, but would serve the home user experience.

Folks, this makes sense. The only confusion a user would have to deal with is the situation where the same task is performed differently between the two environments. In other words, the user would have to figure out why opening a PDF at work is done differently at work than at home.

Joneszee
on Mar 11, 2013

Hummmmm..... You may have something here... But a solution could be as simple as adding 'ModernMix' into the system. This little addition provides all the benefits of Win7 as well as the new improvements of Win8. I too spend 99%+ of my time in the desktop. I will say I am a Windows fan boy and have been since the early dos days. Beginning with DOS I have always installed the latest releases as soon as the're available including early beta versions. I've followed the public releases of Windows 8 from the beginning, try to watch your weekly telecasts on TwiTV and follow your blog posts most of the time. That to say I do understand the frustrations of many who are just being introduced to Win8. However with latest ModernMix it hit the sweet spot for me.
I'm just not sure what renaming the enterprise version would do given the option to add ModernMix.

BojiDean
on Mar 11, 2013

Paul - are you saying it's time to bring back Dave Cutler? I say let him finish the OS he intended to build but perhaps never fully saw come to fruition.

multiplatform
on Mar 11, 2013

I was an OS/2 devotee back in the NT days and I don't think IBM was far off when they jokingly called the 3.x versions "Nice Try." I remember the transition was fairly difficult in terms of usability and stability until Windows 2000 came out. That, for me, was the first version of Windows that made it easy to jettison OS/2 as a server. Heck, they even copied some of the window fonts from Warp 4 so I felt right at home.

As a result, I agree with the sentiment, but not so much the NT name change. Now that I am used to Windows 8, I am not as concerned about the overall usability for power users (though I haven't done much server work yet). I am more concerned for new users that without the visual cues that WP8 has, you need to fiddle with the surface or mouse to do simple things like switch applications or turn the darn thing off. Very non-intuitive. That is the real face plant for Microsoft in Windows 8.

BxPete
on Mar 12, 2013

I realize that individuals, who have submitted comments to Paul's article, dislike Metro Tiles and just want to work in the Desktop mode. Well, when starting up the computer click on any key or mouse-click, the login screen appears, select the user and type in the password. Next, click on the tile that displays the desktop and presto you are in Desktop mode. Ok, there are two extra clicks to see the desktop over that from Windows 7, but this is not painful or excruciatingly difficult. Now run all of the desktop applications as you would if you were in Windows 7 and never return to the metro view unless you want to. Shortcuts and Applications can be put on the Desktop and Taskbar as usual. To Exit, WinKey+C to get the charms for Settings ->Power->Shutdown. If you put it in sleep mode, then returning and typing in the password, one is back to the state they were in before the computer went to sleep. I have a second monitor connected to my laptop, closed the lid, after a while opened the lid, typed in the password and continued working in the desktop mode just as I was before the lid was closed. Now, I personally do not think having metro tiles is an issue if one just wants to work in the desktop mode. This works the same on the Surface Pro and RT, except RT does not run Win7 desktop apps. I realize that a couple of things could be done to make getting to and using the desktop smoother, but so far this is not an OS show-stopper for me.

tbsteph
on Mar 11, 2013

Hmm, something about this article does not feel right? Nevertheless,
while I agree that at least the metro portion of W8 needs a lot of work, it would be a stretch to retrograde back to W2000/NT as the solution.

AlexKven
on Mar 11, 2013

Your link about aero doesn't work. But I disagree about the removal of aero. I liked aero. Authentic, energetic, reflective, and open is what A-E-R-O actually stands for. I know it's battery consuming, and MS seems to find it "distracting," but it is the style designed for the desktop. The metro style just doesn't feel right on the desktop. Even you, Paul Thurrot, had a mini freakout in the form of an article about the removal of aero. And on the systems that would use NT, they will be most likely plugged in, and aero will not be a problem.

In the meantime, I will use this: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/161788-aero-glass-for-win8-v05/page__st_...

ian.berg
on Mar 11, 2013

Restore the Start button in Windows 8's Desktop, let people boot directly to Desktop & allow multiple Modern UI app windows to run, cascade, tile & be resized.

leops1984
on Mar 11, 2013

I find this idea interesting, but here's a question. If Metro is the future, then how do you convince businesses to move to this notional NT? Wouldn't they just stick to their old versions?

Essentially, how do you get people to move to something new when, at the same time, you're saying what they love and hold dear is obsolete?

sulimir
on Mar 11, 2013

This! This! This! I have very fond memories of NT. I got started in IT with Windows NT 4.0. Clean, simple, and rock solid it was Dave Cutler and crew at their best. Also, NT was designed to support multiple architectures, but not in the insane way RT does. I agree Microsoft needs to embrace touch, but you can't throw out the baby with the bathwater. NT could be the more gradual approach. You can have a more touch friendly system without throwing away the desktop. They could have introduced gestures in conjunction with the desktop to ease people into the new way of doing things. Modern UI may be great one day, but it's not there yet, and won't get a chance to get there unless there are some very quick improvements.
I think Paul is right when he relates the Car / Truck metaphor. The thing is that Microsoft is making the F150, and instead of being happy with making the most popular truck they are throwing it away to build on El Caminos.

BryanK
on Mar 11, 2013

Paul it's good to see your transformation on this issue. As I recall it wasn't too long ago when power users were lamenting the Frankenstein nature of Win8 and immediately installing tools like Start8, we were painted (in gentle terms) as clinging to the past, not getting the genius of Microsoft's brave new direction, etc. etc. Glad you finally came around on this.

sulimir
on Mar 12, 2013

Ok Maybe I overstated how good NT 4 was, but it was a great start. I still associate the NT brand with quality, which is something I do not associate with windows any longer. Windows 7 was excellent, but 99% of the population has WIndows 7: Brought To You By CRAP-Ware.

henador
on Mar 12, 2013

You must have been out partying with Zarian before typing this article! About the only part that makes sense is for there to be a "Server" version without the Metro shell. For everyone else, MSFT needs to do three things:

1. Default to the Desktop when not on a tablet
2. Put the damn Start Menu back into the Desktop
3. Fire the idiot(s) who made #1 and #2 necessary

MSFT broke THE cardinal rule of Windows with Win8: backwards compatibility. We bent over backwards (pun intended) for backwards compatibility in the Win95 days so that existing users could continue to use their existing programs. We did all sorts of hacks to enable existing apps to run (patching the stack to cover for uninitialized locals in apps, AppHack flags for more general behavior changes, etc.).

The first thing users want to see in their new Win8 systems is their familiar Desktop. After they're comfortable in that then they can explore the Metro side more, especially on a tablet. Instead they're thrown into the unfamiliar Metro shell and a crippled Desktop. It's no wonder they're revolting. They might as well learn to use a Mac.

Finally, the Metro environment (aka WinRT) will *never* equal the Desktop environment in productivity apps. It wasn't designed for that. Here are some more suggestions for MSFT:

4. Add a touch-and-DPI-friendly API set to the Desktop APIs. Use XAML for the UI but accelerate it (don't pull a WPF). This will require a new Desktop framework. It will eliminate your major complaint about using Desktop apps on the Surface Pro (due to its extremely high DPI).

5. Eliminate all the Async crap in the WinRT APIs. Have blocking APIs but enhance the Dispatcher functionality so that background threads and easily communicate with the UI thread.

6. Stop trying to weasel C# into the core API. The core is C++ and the APIs should be tuned to that. C# interfaces should be a middleware layer.

7. Allow Metro apps to run windowed on the Desktop.

The Windows group used to be an island of sanity in the sea of "evangelists" at MSFT (e.g. we'd listen to the evangelists then politely toss their grandiose plans in the trash). That doesn't seem to be the case anymore...

leops1984
on Mar 12, 2013

I find this idea interesting, but here's a question. If Metro is the future, then how do you convince businesses to move to this notional NT? Wouldn't they just stick to their old versions?

Essentially, how do you get people to move to something new when, at the same time, you're saying what they love and hold dear is obsolete?

drjonz
on Mar 12, 2013

Is it really so hard for Microsoft to simply set touch enabled monitor to show metro by default and no touch to show classic desktop by default? That would end this distaste of Win8 for good.

And MS did give us NT again: Server 2012 has a UI about as ugly. :-P

davidm
on Mar 12, 2013

a lot of stuff you hear online doesn't represent what is reality. if you spend most of your time online,you'd think mac OS dominates the PC industry, nobody buys consoles and only game with the PC because mouse and keyboard is where its at, EA sucks and nobody buys their games.Call of duty games are pieces of trash that nobody likes.

if you go on statcounters website,and you check out operating system share,you would see that;

http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-201202-201303

Windows 8 3.62%
ios 4.11%

Another month and windows 8 will overtake ios user base that was built in 5 years,from media players to phones to tablets.

In fact,to know that massive amounts of people have embraced and are using the windows 8 interface,all you have to do is look at some popular apps and check out how many ratings they have.

windows 8 ios
Netflix 69000 13000(all versions)
Skype 83000 34000(all versions)

Trappist
on Mar 12, 2013

Windows NT already exists: It is called Linux. It is for people who need to get work done -- at work or at home. For those who want to micro-manage their computers, there is also this Windows thing.

I liked NT back in the day. It was as good as Windows would, could, ever be. Had NT not been woven into existence as part of a Bill Gatesian monopolistic corportae culture, it could have eventually grown up as an alternative to Linux, and maybe I and my colleagues would never have had to switch. It could even be the new UNIX. But now, it is just a fond memory.

chriswong
on Mar 12, 2013

Meh, I think ur sentiment towards NT is making u over-estimate its importance as a potential brand - either consumer and/or biz brand. The name was used for one release of Windows in 1996, so no one will see it the same as IT pros. The bottom line is if MS was able to complete the Metro exp with better apps, settings, and a Metro Office, it wouldn't be seen as a strange mix of desktop and Metro environments; we'd be able to stay in either desktop or Metro longer and more as desired. 8 is a great example of needing to finish a job rather than sticking to a schedule and just getting something out the door, ready or not...

dregourd
on Mar 12, 2013

Paul,
How can you, a technologist, an enthousiast, propose to go back in time? You sound like these AS/400 guys who want to bring back their old brand, or these Apple Newton fans who still meet in the hope of a possible rebirth of their platform.
NT is for the museum. NT is a dinosaur.
One NT on every desk, OK. One NT in every pocket, no thank you.

aras
on Mar 12, 2013

Whether Metro is the FUTURE or not is irrelevant if Microsoft can’t produce something that makes sense now. When this future comes we may find that nobody cares about Metro anymore because people have simply moved on to other platforms...

I think what Microsoft is failing to realize is they are not a huge monopoly they once were. 10 - 20 years ago MS could get away with releasing crap products and fix them years later because people didn’t have a choice. Times have changed, people now have plenty of choice, they can and will move on if Microsoft don’t start listening.

sylar
on Mar 12, 2013

I agree 100% with this article Paul, I have been using Windows NT products from NT4 through to Win7. Windows 8 is the first NT edition that I will not be upgrading to as it is a horrible mess with 2 UI's and is very unproductive. I've just learnt today at work (Western Australian Government Department) that our Windows XP SOE is being upgraded to a new Windows 7 SOE with deployment to be during July 2013. They did consider Windows 8 but found it failed to meet the department's I.T, user experience and productivity requirements so Windows 7 got approved for the new SOE. Another wake up call for microsoft as this would be the trend amongst many businesses and enterprise environments.

BGBrereton
on Mar 12, 2013

Um, this product exists. OK, it's not called Windows NT, it's called Windows 7. The power users, IT pros, and developers audience you have in mind don't need a name change as they are the people informed enough to know that Windows 7 is actually Windows NT 6.1 with a marketing name on it.

I'm a developer. I personally read the reviews of Windows 8 and tried it out myself at work and concluded it was the future but didn't represent something I needed now at work or for my existing home laptop. I continue to find it interesting but am happy to wait for the future to become the present with an improved version of Windows 8/9/Blue/whatever. In the meantime, I like Windows 7 – it’s a mature product for desktop PCs and conventional laptops and I am happy to stick with it for now.

oroslak
on Mar 12, 2013

What is Windows NT?

milky_cereal
on Mar 12, 2013

Tech people really are curmudgeons. Hey, I'm one too, so I know all about it. Takes one to know one as they say. What I have to wonder is if all this fuss about Windows 8 is simply about the Start Menu vs Start Screen? If Windows 8 had an improved Start Menu, and yes, booted to the desktop, would all of this griping be averted? I mean, the underlying core of 8 is quite solid. It's faster and lighter. It also has plenty of other improvements like the File Explorer and Task Manager. Plus it has this neat RT/Metro/Modern thingy on top of it with a real app store. That environment, yes, works well on tablet form factors that are all the rage these days, and ultimately where the majority of computing is moving to (at least in some sort). So ultimately, what is the problem?

And trust me, I get it. The Start Screen needs work, the Modern apps suck. And they look horrible on a big monitor. You can't even glance at the time. All annoying, but all surmountable.

Rick Eveleigh
on Mar 12, 2013

People are making interesting suggestions but most of the solutions (including this article) are sledgehammer to crack a nut!

The one sensible idea in the comments here is the idea of a Start Button (*not* Start Menu!!) so that as he put it, rdp users aren't trying to click on 1 pixel to get to the Start Screen.

As for the other common gripes they mostly seem to relate to corporates (a land I play in) and are easily solvable:
- straight to the desktop: you can do this via GPO. And also skip the lock screen too if you want
- Fisher Price apps on the Start Screen -- you can also prevent these from being present
- too complicated to turn off -- set the power button on the PC to turn it off (also in GPO)

It would be nice if there was a GPO option to default to the All Apps Start Screen, that would answer the comment who wanted the grouped Start Menu.

Other than that I think 8 is Great: it's the next version of 7, boots faster, is faster, good new features even without Metro. It's not something very different and scary if you don't want it to be. If corps are worried about user adoption, try the GPOs above.

If the desktop is split from Metro I think Metro will wither and die in the heat of other tablet OSes... as Paul has been saying all along.

Elton
on Mar 12, 2013

I don't think W8 is that far off the mark, and it's easily fixed. Whether or not they actually fix it is of course another issue. Allowing metro apps to run windowed on the desktop, or snap to quarters of a large screen in full-screen mode would be nearly enough. More tile sizes on the start screen would also start.

I was working in W8/Metro over the weekend and got very frustrated trying to read one email while composing another and viewing the calendar. I have two 24" screens and couldn't make effective use of that space. Even a metro app on each screen would have helped. It's called "Windows" after all, not "Window".

Ironically it's Windows NT's HAL that's lived on and makes the port to ARM feasible for Windows RT.

dalestrauss
on Mar 12, 2013

It is way past time to end all of this Windows 8 hand-wringing and shouting against the wind. I come from a long time user experience base, not as a programmer or developer. I started with a PCjr and DOS 2.0 in 1984, and have been through every version of DOS, Concurrent DOS, and Windows since then (including NT on our first network server). All of you guys should take a dose of the Eagles and "Get Over It." Actually take the time to listen to the song and read the lyrics. You are not victims here, and there is NOTHING inherently wrong with Windows 8. Sure, it could integrate better between desktop and Metro Modes. Sure, the touch focused tiled interface is not perfect for desktop use, BUT THE DESKTOP IS ONE CLICK AWAY for heavens sake. Sure, Metro should be able to do better than a 1/4-3/4 screen split - it will come.

You guys are all sitting around the front porch of the general store bemoaning the passage of burr haircuts! Crying about the missing start menu - good lord, most of you complained incessantly when it was added in Windows 95 (waaahhhhhh, what did they do with my Program Manager!).

Actually, I'm very glad, at the ripe old age of 58, to see that Microsoft has the cahones to embrace change in a huge way and make a wholesale shift of their UI to match the future.

Get over it - we are in the second decade of the 21st century for crying out loud. Touch is not only the future, it is the present. Just go to the desktop and enjoy Windows 7.5 already. For the rest of us, here's hoping Microsoft succeeds in unifying its code base across various platforms, giving Apple something to shoot for.

milky_cereal
on Mar 13, 2013

Thank you! Any kind of sea change in the interface design will result in a lot of inconsistencies. This is Windows, not some locked down walled garden.

I don't see the reason for all of the hand wringing. Sure, there are problems, but for the majority of users that will go to the desktop, it is essentially the same experience for them. In fact, when I sign in to my home desktop, I hit Enter, then hit Windows Key + 2 and 3. This goes to the desktop and opens my two most used apps. Then I'm pretty much done for the night.

MS just has to move a little faster cleaning up these issues. Having them chase these grand schemes is not the answer. They've already executed the grand scheme, now they just need to refine, refine, refine.

allenjas
on Mar 12, 2013

Truly a great point, Paul -- written and expressed well. Both in practice and in perception such a move to bring back NT would be a triumphant "return to market" like the Camaro was for Chevy, or Chevrolet - whichever they prefer to go by these days.

WillW
on Mar 12, 2013

Paul I agree with you. I have been an IT admin for over a decade now starting with Window 95 up to the current Windows 8 desktop. I personally have tried to use Windows 8 as a network admin 3-4 times now. Even ordering a laptop built for the system with touch however I get frustrated at what Windows 8 has become. I get metro for Windows phone and tablet devices. You need an interface that allows for the touch use of apps. However, deploying this interface to hundreds of people over a VDI type system is not advisable. How do you tell people which IE to use? How do you stop them from setting up all the "personal" stuff Windows wants with your Facebook and twitter feeds? Supporting this system is madness.

What is needed is that Windows 8 Pro should NOT have anything to do with Metro unless it is explicitly enabled in Group Policy. Boot to a Windows 8 desktop, turn off all the entertainment stuff, and give users the start button. Windows Pro should be a BUSINESS version of Windows. Build to be LEAN and quick...like VERY quick...for VDI and rapid deployments.

By personal issue with Metro, or whatever it is called, is that the apps on the desktop are very shallow. You can not go deep with them. What is needed is apps that work on the desktop and can link to phone or tablet based versions of those apps. Give me Outlook on the desktop, and then give me a Outlook RT version that allows me to do 75% of everything from a touch interface. The two should work together and talk together but they work differently depending on your device.

Keep up the good work....I just hope someone in Redmond is listening.

brent
on Mar 12, 2013

My take on this is that Paul is championing an enterprise version of Windows that he would call NT, rather than wanting to return to NT4. Since the two versions of Windows merged, the Windows product has gotten more consumer centric and has added features important to many consumers, but not necessarily relevant to many businesses.

I liked having the two Windows and particularily liked not having to run a consumer focused OS in our business. As a bank. we work hard to keep our network locked down and we block a lot of Internet traffic. We don't need or want apps for Facebook and the like. Since there is no true "NT type" OS, we run Windows 7 Enterprise N which doesn't have all the consumer features.

We want to move forward with secure, robust operating systems, but they need to support our business and increase productivity. Touch screen apps will be good for some businesses perhaps, but they don't fit for us. Many of our programs are OS agnostic, others have .NET interfaces, and one that is slow to evolve is still really a DOS product with a modern interface. As a result it could take a long time for some vendors to support the Metro interface should their customers desire it.

A split of Windows to enterprise and consumer versions could benefit Microsoft as the consumer version could finally drop x86 support.

jcasteel
on Mar 12, 2013

First, I disagree completely about using the NT name. For me, NT makes me think of OLD. It does not raise any fond memories of evolved enterprise stability and I've been around long enough that it would if it could.

As for Windows 8, the only thing it needs is a start button for those who can't or do not want to evolve. Beyond that, there's no reason at all that Microsoft should further cleave its operating system.

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