Tami Reller Talks Windows 8

One of Sinofsky's replacements sounds off on Windows 8

When Steven Sinofsky left Microsoft, most of his day-to-day responsibilities were split between Julie Larson Green and Tami Reller. This week, Reller spoke at a Credit Suisse Annual Tech Conference, where she of course spoke about Windows 8. But Reller actually confirmed my reports about internal dissatisfaction with PC makers, among other interesting tidbits.

(Thanks to my Windows Weekly co-host Mary Jo Foley for linking to the transcript of this speech.)

This was of course the speech in which Reller revealed that Microsoft has sold 40 million Windows 8 licenses, though there seems to be some disagreement about whether that’s a good number. My take is this: 40 million is twice the normal number of Windows licenses that Microsoft sells in one month. I’d have expected more than double the sales in the launch month, to be honest.

Anyway, back to Reller. Here are a few interesting tidbits from her talk this week.

Reception to Windows 8

“I'm going to talk to you about our new release, and really the tremendous buzz and interest we've seen in the marketplace since October 26th when we officially launched,” she said. “We have sold 40 million Windows 8 licenses so far … The 40 million [license sales] is roughly in line with Windows 7.”

Microsoft’s internal disappointment with PC makers

I’ve exclusively reported that Microsoft blames PC makers for Windows 8’s slow start. (Read more in Windows 8 Sales Well Below Projections, Plenty of Blame to Go Around and Dialing Back the Crazy on Windows 8.) She actually corroborates that information.

“It will take a few selling seasons to get sort of all the designs we all like into the marketplace,” she said. “If you go into retail today, you will see some great touch devices, whether it's touch laptops, or whether it's a tablet or two with Windows 8 or Windows RT. It's not enough in our opinion. I mean, we think the pipeline is great, and we're excited to see that pipeline come into retail. And they are coming. And so our OEMs are doing great work, and we'll see that come in over the next several months. Some you'll see in December, some it will take longer. But I think it's good, but not great in terms of the full touch assortment.”

Why it was designed the way it was

If there’s a single conversation about Windows 8 that exemplifies this release, it has to be the weirdness of the dual interfaces, Metro and desktop. Reller doesn’t ever directly address that exact issue, but she does discuss, in broader terms, why Windows 8 is the way it is.

“In order to deliver experiences relevant to … this world that we now live, and to anticipate that ways that we'll want to use technology in the future, we did need to reimagine the Windows experience from the chipset to a whole new array of form factors, to touch, to the developer platform, the store, and apps, and to the user experience,” she said. “It was built for the future, not just any one single selling season … This idea of work and play, they're intertwined, and hopefully intertwined seamlessly as you move between them.”

“PCs have become increasingly mobile and much more powerful, and with Windows 8 and the new form factors we're introducing it's all about moving effortlessly between what you want to do, call that create and consume, and about what you need to do, all in one device, whatever device you happen to be on,” she added. “We talk about this as no compromise, and that's whether you're on a device with a mouse and keyboard or whether you're on a device with touch.”

“That desktop PC of old has been replaced by one or more, more sleek, more powerful, more mobile PCs with vastly more storage and computing at a fraction of the price.”

Windows 8 is like Windows 7 but better

I’ve made this assertion as well: That Windows 8 is basically Windows 7++. But many people overlook the benefits over Windows 7 because they’re so freaked by Windows 8’s design.

“In building Windows 8 we took the foundation of Windows 7 and we made it better,” she said. “People may experience benefits on their existing Windows 7 PCs, like battery life extended up to 13 percent, boot time improved by up to 36 percent, and on new PCs a cold start time of under 10 seconds. So, Windows 8 was built to work beautifully on existing Windows 7 machines. And, in fact, Windows 8 upgrade momentum is outpacing that of Windows 7.”

Windows RT

One thing Reller really messes up is Windows RT. She never mentions, describes or explains it, but then she just says, “also on the RT side…” as if the audience would understand what that even means. There are further references to RT, but no real explanation. This is a blind spot for Microsoft, I believe.

Surface with Windows 8 Pro

As expected, “Surface with the Windows 8 Pro will be available in January.”

On Sinofsky’s departure

While everyone was likely hoping for some hint of why Sinofsky left Microsoft, Tami circled the wagons, which is to be expected.

“I will miss Steven,” she said. “I will miss working with him on a daily basis. And one of his strong philosophies is that any organization and any system that has to deliver something as big as Windows absolutely needs to be able to live past any one leader, or really any one small set of leaders. And so that philosophy is really part of the DNA of the organization. And we have the benefit of such a strong leadership team and oftentimes in Windows you really only get to see a few visible senior leaders, but the reality is, not only are those senior leaders very strong, but the bench of senior leaders that represent the product holistically.”

“So, this is a team that was able to really come together, even long before Windows 7 started the planning phase, and shipped Windows 7 together. This is the team that then planned Windows 8 and delivered Windows 8 and then obviously has had time to set up for the future. So, the team and the leadership team, but the team holistically, is in great, great shape. And the product is in great shape. And so I think transitions are always somewhat of a challenge, but I think that timing-wise it's a reasonable time and the team is busy.”

On Julie Larson-Green

Larson-Green is sort of an enigma outside the Windows team, and while I don’t know her, I’ve not been too happy with what I’ve heard. Reller was however quite complimentary.

“Julie has such an ability to not only set a vision for the product, but just to be able to carry on the collaboration that really was such a key part of Windows 8,” she said. “I mean, think about Windows 8 and what we were able to bring together from assets across the company, whether it was the work that we did in Office to make that a key part of the Windows RT value proposition, whether it was Xbox and just how integrated that is. And the concept of being able to have the Xbox service just fully integrated in, whether it's music or video into the Windows 8 experience, Xbox Smart Glass if you haven't checked that out that's a great app. And Bing, I can go on and on. There is so much we were able to accomplish, and we just see the possibility that that presents to consumers, and we just want to keep that going, and Julie and the team will be able to do that.”

That bit is crazy: Windows is the antithesis of collaborative, as anyone in Microsoft will tell you. I suspect this was a direct response to exterior suspicions that Sinofsky was bounced because of his reluctance to collaborate with others, and can thus be considered damage control.

Good stuff. Check out the transcript for more information.

Discuss this Article 18

elefunk
on Nov 28, 2012

Tami is simply stating the truth at that last part - Xbox, Office, Bing, Windows, and more are integrated directly into Windows in a way that Windows has never seen previously. How is that "crazy"? How is that "the antithesis of collaborative"?

I'm starting to wonder if there's a huge element of confirmation bias here, where people are only believing stories that align with their predefined narrative of how Sinofsky squashed collaboration or whatever. Maybe things didn't always go the way other groups in Microsoft wanted, but you can't simply deny the truth of cross-product integration that you can see directly in the product itself. That kind of integration can't happen if it's simply the Windows organization dictating to every other group exactly what must be done and accepting no substitutes.

pthurrott
on Nov 28, 2012

There's no "integration" with those services. They've delivered apps that are bundled with the OS and then updated on a different schedule. That's like claiming that Bing.com is integrated with Windows because it works in IE.

Instead of seeing bias everywhere, why don't you just think for half a second. Maybe what *you're* seeing is the expectation of bias and then matching what you're reading to that. Just a thought.

elefunk
on Nov 28, 2012

Geez, Thurrott, lighten up a bit. I didn't attack your post, what the heck is with the attack? I was wondering how you could call something "crazy" when I'm sitting here with my brand new Windows 8 PC seeing to me what looks like tons of integration.

Delivered as apps or integrated as a part of the OS, I don't really think it matters. For me as the customer, I saw those apps there in-box the first time I logged in, and they matched the design language of each other, used my Microsoft account effectively, and it all seemed like one cohesive product. The fact that they're separate apps is beneficial to me since they can be updated much more frequently (and have been), so that seems cool too.

I'm not trying to pretend that everything is roses and daisies - obviously there's a lot of turmoil, and Sinofsky is probably gone for decent reasons, but at the same time it seems odd to classify Tami's statements as "crazy" when the OS I'm using every day seems to align with what she's talking about.

Wileybc
on Nov 28, 2012

I happen to agree with elefunk. I see a lot of collaborative success in Windows 8 and the word "crazy" just made me slap my head and go huh?

pthurrott
on Nov 28, 2012

I've pretty much explained it. Half-hearted Xbox entertainment apps aren't integration, they're just crap that doesn't work. Sorry if this is too obvious.

The Duke
on Nov 28, 2012

That right there is something I do have to fully agree with. In many respects, the Xbox entertainment apps for Windows 8, while somewhat useful, are nowhere near as good as they could be.

They do somewhat work, but there is much room for improvement. I would dare say that the previous applications under Windows 7 and below work much better than the existing Windows 8 apps. I find myself gravitating back to the old Zune client for instance than the Xbox Music/Video apps.

The Xbox Games app though feels like a step backwards from the Games for Windows client. Sure you can do the little cute things like customize your avatar, but the fact that you can't message friends from within the app is simply inexcusable. I suspect this may be due Skype being (slowly) integrated into the Live system, and would make a great deal of sense if that's the case. Of course, I base that on the assumption that Skype will eventually either integrate with or replace the existing Xbox Live messaging / Party system. If that is the case, then cool. If not, then wtf?

shark47
on Nov 28, 2012

Even if it's crappy, there's more integration compared to previous versions of Windows. It is similar to the Windows Phone actually.

roncerr
on Nov 28, 2012

I interpreted her mention of Office integration as referring to the fact that a special metro version of office had to be written for RT devices. That's important in that it's just about the only app that highlights RT as being a future version of Windows and not just something to put on ARM devices to compete with the iPad.

MediaCastleX
on Dec 31, 2012

I'm a bit confused on your example of Bing, you are of course referring to the site specifically, but my question is Bing as a Microsoft product is more than the site or am I mistaken? For them I thought it was all the programming that they use for all their search and search related technologies in their portfolio...of course that all has no relevance on the example you are trying to illustrate, I understand. Even as much of a business dead-end as the search engine is for Microsoft, do you have any further insights or articles regarding it? I think I might've seen that under an "online" section, I'll have to look out for it...keep giving 'em hell, man! =p

The Other Paul
on Nov 28, 2012

I agree with elefunk too. And I agree with Paul, that the products we see right now aren't anywhere near as well integrated as we would like. Microsoft could be a lot more than the sum of its parts. But I think the company has come a long way in getting groups to work together, and they deserve credit for making real progress in overcoming one of their biggest problems. I took the news about Larson-Green as positive, that Microsoft sees product integration as perhaps the most important goal for new functionality in future releases. It was not a move born out of complacency, in my view.

elefunk
on Nov 28, 2012

All I'm saying is that I think it's fair to imagine that the reality lies somewhere between the happy words coming from Microsoft and the absolute catastrophe that Paul thinks is going on where collaboration is impossible. Natively built into the OS itself or simply apps bolted onto the OS, I can't imagine how it would be possible to have everything ship on the same schedule, with the same design sensibilities, while utilizing the same platform, if there wasn't some collaboration going on.

Claiming that it's "crazy" to simply point out the reality of the product itself - however it got there - just sounds like Paul won't remotely consider the plausibility of a world where any element of collaboration took place during Windows 8's development.

And yeah, the Xbox apps are buggy and slow, especially on Surface, but that seems to be more due to the immaturity of the app platform itself. Just look at the Mail app - wasn't that developed by the Windows team? That's the worst of them all, yet a lack of collaboration isn't even an option to blame for that.

It would be absolutely awesome if collaboration is improved dramatically for future versions of Windows, whether that's because Sinofsky's out or not. All I ask is that the "crazy" hyperbole is toned down a bit. It's not entertaining or informative.

pthurrott
on Nov 29, 2012

You're wise to believe that the truth lies between two extremes. In general, that's true.

That said, I'll just repeat the truth in this specific case, which is that Sinofsky's Windows team did not ever integrate well with other parts of the company. And those integrated apps you're so happy about are all half-baked at best. Not "buggy." They do not work right.

These are both big parts of why it's not Sinofsky's Windows team any more.

So I hear you, and I appreciate your need to quote individual words in my comments to make your own points about hyperbole or negativity, or whatever. But... It's just misguided in this case.

So we'll see what collaboration occurs going forward. It can and should start with Microsoft fixing all the stuff that simply does not work in Windows 8. That most collaborative of products in your mind. :)

AlcorZA
on Nov 28, 2012

Dude, I think you're missing what Paul is getting at here. He's referring to the Windows Team and the dynamic/culture Sinofsky had going within Microsoft and the Windows TEAM, not the product (Windows 8) itself.

bluvg
on Nov 28, 2012

These transcripts always look so funny. You can tell it's not a script at least--no one would ever write sentences like that. These statements read a lot like interviews with Bill Gates--they make sense when you hear/watch the interview, but in transcript form, they look almost nonsensical.

Regarding Julie Larson-Green, I once emailed her (via Scoble) regarding a Channel 9 video back when she was on the Office team. She replied quickly, much to my surprise (as did Steve Ballmer--or perhaps more likely, one of his assistants--to an email message). She seemed responsive, sharp, and nice, for what it's worth.

Waethorn
on Nov 28, 2012

Paul, is there a single face behind the design of Metro and Live Tiles as we know it today? Who is the Miles Dyson of Microsoft?

pthurrott
on Nov 28, 2012

I honestly don't believe so. Many will foist Joe B. into that role, at least in Windows Phone, but he's not a designer. Albert Shum?

For client Windows, not sure. Jensen Harris perhaps?

Genesyn
on Nov 28, 2012

Seems a bit silly to say "Xbox integration" when they can't even get their advertised features working. I did point out to the windows phone team on twitter that xbox video doesn't work as advertised on Windows Phone 8? They're response was "we'll update the photo on the site". /facepalm

butlerT
on Nov 28, 2012

As a business developer I've seen what appears to be pure madness going on at Microsoft. One has to wonder if Sinofsky had something to do with the confusion in the .NET space over the past couple of years.

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