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Why is Nokia HERE for iPhone Better than Windows Phone Maps?

Nokia puts the iPhone ahead of its own smart phone platform
Nov. 20, 2012 Paul Thurrott

You may recall that Nokia recently announced that it would be bringing its superior mapping technology to iPhone/iOS and Android via a new app called HERE. Previously one of Windows Phone’s biggest advantages over the competition, Nokia’s maps are now shipping in a free HERE app for iOS. And, here’s a shocker: This app is actually nicer than the Maps app included with Windows Phone. You know, the one powered by Nokia mapping technology.

What the...?

I don’t begrudge Nokia trying to pull itself out of its death spiral, though I’m of course unclear how giving away its maps for free will achieve that. (Comedy answer: Volume.) But I do begrudge that this new HERE app is nicer than the Maps app on Windows Phone, which is also powered by Nokia’s mapping technologies, a key aspect of the firm’s high profile partnership with Microsoft. (On Nokia’s own phones, this app is called Nokia Maps, and it is roughly equivalent to HERE in many ways, from what I can tell.)

How is it nicer? It takes only seconds to notice some key differences if you’ve used WP Maps as much as I have.

Public transit. On Windows Phone, Maps can provide walking and driving directions. But Nokia HERE (and Nokia Maps on WP) also include public transit directions.) It also supports a public transport map view in addition to (normal) map view and satellite view.

Audio directions. HERE supports audio directions, which Microsoft included in Windows Phone 7 but removed in 8 (a situation that can be partially explained by the fact that Maps is now extensible with navigation apps like Nokia Drive.)

More granular traffic alerts. In WP Maps, you can toggle traffic on and off, but in HERE, you can also choose whether to be alerted for accidents, construction, congestion, and other traffic issues.

It works sideways. Unlike with Maps on WP, or Nokia Maps on Lumia handsets, HERE actually works in landscape mode too, not just in portrait. You know, as you'd want when driving around in a car. 

There’s more, but you get the idea.

And yes, I get that Nokia HERE is lacking a few features, like downloadable offline maps. But come on.

Here’s the thing. Nokia previously promised—way back in June—that it would be porting its excellent navigation app, Nokia Drive (which provides turn-by-turn functionality) to all Windows Phone 8 handsets. It has not done this, but now it is instead making mapping better on competing platforms instead. This doesn’t make sense to me at all. Not one bit.

Not cool, Nokia. Not cool.

Discuss this Article 37

peacock93
on Nov 20, 2012

I totally agree Paul!! Makes no sense!

JimmyFal
on Nov 20, 2012

I'd settle for turn by turn navigation integrated with Nokia Drive from a contacts card, or the ability to launch Bing Maps with an icon instead of a workaround, or the ability to speak an address and say "navigate to".

You know stuff I was doing 5 years ago on 6.5. Do they do this stuff on purpose or is it actually due to technical aspects of writing code that seem to be perpetually not ready yet...

dregourd
on Nov 20, 2012

Virus of self-destruction.
It is fascinating to see how virulent can be the virus of self destruction once it is released in an organism.
Before the great disasters of this fall, especially those which happened in the end of october, antibodies where still at work inside our beloved colossus bodies of Nokia and Microsoft.
But now, the giants have been deeply wounded, Microsoft by its own irrelevant Surface which is a knife hold by the blade, Nokia by its unclear Lumia range of products (where the high-end is heavier then the low-end - and I do not insist on the high prices at which they are sold in Europe, as if it was a privilege to swipe their screens.).
So the infection is proliferating, and it takes the shape of such offers, where one of the last reasons to buy a Nokia is evaporating. Maybe the next step will be to offer Nokia Music to Iphones and Galaxys…
Whatever the infection is, it is painful for us, the public of these companies, because they were enbodying a certain conception of technology, Nokia through its beautiful and real-life-proof hardware, Microsoft through its daily used software solutions.
So long, guys, we will find over friends on the road.

pthurrott
on Nov 20, 2012

Um. What? :)

dregourd
on Nov 20, 2012

I have been a MS fan for 20 years, so it is hard for me to switch on Apple ecosystem. So I will live on a mixted environment made of Android mobile devices, Windows PCs and a not too expensive phone.
Microsoft has to understand that its customers are not Sinowski's employees, nor Balmer's friends, however these guys are talented or motivated.

tcooper185
on Nov 20, 2012

You can actually download the maps, albeit in a very limited fashion. It would probably work well for downloading your local community, but the detail it allows for a 45 minute commute isn't that good.

ryeworth
on Nov 20, 2012

Paul, the other OEMs refused to have Nokia applications on their WP devices.

aarsan
on Nov 20, 2012

Nokia Maps does include public transit on WP8. It's not great but it is there.

mebby
on Nov 20, 2012

Paul points out another "stupid" step made in the Microsoft ecosystem. It is depressing reading PTSSFW these days. I was really hoping to have an alternative to the iOS empire. I never have been attracted to the Android ecosystem to go in whole hog.

I wonder if it is just a matter of time. Time heals all! Apple releases a few compelling products at once and a bunch of people have them in their hands in a few weeks. Microsoft and partners seem to dribble them out over months. I think a big problem was that on launch day, very little product was available. No Surface Pro. Confusing availability for WP8 phones (my opinion since I did not buy one). Other products just trickling in.

If Microsoft and partners don't truly adopt a continual improvement process - every quarter for the first year then on an annual basis - then they are sunk.

I am really looking forward to get a WP8 phone at the end of next year, but I hope there are improvements to be had.

aarsan
on Nov 20, 2012

Nokia Maps for WP8 does have public transit (didn't in WP7) but it's not great.

fraughtwith
on Nov 20, 2012

I don't really agree with your sentiment.

Do you see Nokia as being just a hair-length extension of Microsoft's largess? There were synergies to Nokia signing an exclusive with Microsoft for mobile OS, but that wasn't an invitation for Microsoft to swallow up all of Nokia's IP. Nokia's mediaspeak all along has been, 'We still have ways to differentiate ourselves while living within the Microsoft ecosystem'. They've done that partially with hardware but they're also doing it with software. Most of your complaints about the iOS offering are mitigated by the fact that the Lumia's offer most of the same functionality plus some additional goodies. So are you saying that it's not fair that Nokia isn't playing nicely in the WP sandbox?

Windows Phone will not be a direct competitor to iOS and Android for quite some time, so being able to tap into an install base of millions (billions?) with a respected and robust product seems like a good way to gain mindshare/marketshare. I agree that I don't quite see the revenue model, but I'm sure Nokia has already thought that through and have some future plans.

Should Microsoft be complaining, how can they? They need Nokia to push WP8 viability and I'm sure they're already grateful to get Nokia base mapping service to help make their phone a viable tool for global users (something that Apple Maps has been hurt by).

studio4llc
on Nov 20, 2012

Nokia Drive, as well as the camera, is the only reason I am considering paying an insane price for an unlocked version of the Lumia 920 - my carrier (Cincinnati Bell) will carry the HTC 8X (supported by T-Mobile) at $199, while the cheapest 920 on ebay was $500+. Is Nokia Drive + 920's camera worth it? Probably not considering each camera will likely become obsolete within 12 months.

Josh602
on Nov 20, 2012

Microsoft would have solved so many problems if Windows Phone 8's built-in apps were just separate bundled apps like in Windows 8. They could be updated separately and we'd be able to get improvements like this a lot quicker.

rx78
on Nov 20, 2012

Same question I asked myself comparing Bing on iOS with same app on WP/Surface. Why would MS put more energy in building app for competition? The only answer I can come up with is that team working on particular app don't give a sh*t about company as a whole, they have their own tasks and goals and judged by hitting their targets. So for them iOS is a big fat target and it makes sense spend more time working on iOS app. They don't talk or particularly like rest of their own company, I guess. Kind of short-sighted, but people ofter are this way. May be, Nokia follows this "winning" strategy from MS? Not to mention MS phone rumors would sure feel like a kick in the but, whatever Elop publicly says about it.

This is why I never agreed with Paul's long standing desire to split MS into peaces so that it is easier to manage. Nope, that would be exactly like this - one department go against company interests for its own goals. And this is why I'm not really liking Sinofsky departure. He could have an authority to prevent this kind of things, at least in theory. Now I'm afraid this stuff will happen all over the place, because fractions seem to win. Ballmer will keep the crown and count days left to retirement, and every department will keep pointing guns on each other as in that famous chart, shooting occasionally.

Please someone tell me I'm totally wrong.

Ted T.
on Nov 20, 2012

As others have pointed out iTunes and Office are superior on their respective native platforms. They can afford to be, because they don't have serious competition. On the other hand Bing & Nokia Maps are also rans to Google (and if Next maps on iOS is any indication, Nokia/WP 8 maps are an also ran to Apple's much maligned maps as well). So they can't afford to intentionally or through benign neglect cripple their products on other platforms. They have to do their very best if they expect anyone at all to use them.

Also, volume is very important to the quality of both Bing and Nokia Maps -- both search engines and maps depend on massive use to improve their results. By having them succeed on iOS they will become better for Windows users as well.

And as both are ad supported, they will make way more money on iOS then they would on Windows Phone or Windows RT due to the orders of magnitude more iOS users.

duncanator
on Nov 20, 2012

It is things like this that keeps me from buying a windows phone. I am looking at the Lumia phones but when I see things like this, I wonder if Microsoft or Nokia will care about the device past six months. I am trying WP7 on a focus and like it but why should I get a WP8 if Nokia doesn't even update their own software.

ian.berg
on Nov 20, 2012

Map & navigation apps won't factor into my decision the next time I purchase a phone unless I've lost my sturdy four-year old Garmin Nuvi GPS for which I bought lifetime updates. But it's sad to hear that Nokia would produce a better mapping app for the iOS than for WP8.

paebin2s
on Nov 20, 2012

It is getting horrible reviews in the iTunes store.

Honestly I have ZERO problem with the new Apple maps. The app its self is vastly better than the old one, with turn by turn that works with Siri as in "Directions Home" from remote hunting location in the sticks works great. I never use public transportation so I cant really miss it.

AlcorZA
on Nov 20, 2012

One of the things that I noticed now with my 8X was that I miss the Nokia Drive app from my previous Lumia 800.

I wish Nokia made this app available on the store. I'd even gladly pay for it to use it on another manufacturers device. Drive really worked well!

Sometimes I don't think the people making the strategy choices make the right ones. Funny that.

superface
on Nov 20, 2012

Back in the day lots of Apple fans complained when iTunes was released for Windows too.
It enabled millions more people to use an iPod with their computer and is credited with creating a halo effect on the rest of apples products.

Why is volume a comedy answer? Volume is crucial, for example every time you use the app to guide you somewhere it sends back information about where you are and if you are stuck in traffic. That's one of the main ways it knows how long a journey will take. Once you start thinking about big data and you realize that Google has a huge advantage here and anything Nokia can do to give itself a leg up will surely benefit all its users.

rx78
on Nov 20, 2012

iTunes on windows is ugly beasts hated almost unanimously. It is actually one of the reasons I never feel like moving Mac route - it sucks so much I wanted no part of it at all. But I've heard it is good on Mac. Same with office - no one complains about office on Mac, because it is clearly superior on it's native windows platform. Can you imagine iTunes working great on windows and sucking on mac? Me neither.

paebin2s
on Nov 21, 2012

I see people say this a lot about iTunes on Windows. I did have problems with it when the first iPod for Windows was available. My problem was more of a FireWire on Windows issue than anything else. Sometimes the iPod would not bee seen by iTunes over FireWire 1.0

After that was fixed and after the iPod's got better USB support I have never had an issue with iTunes on Windows. If fact what other music app is better on Windows? I had a Zune 30 and HD as well, and while the Zune software had a unique look, it was not better in function at all.

wgrafton
on Nov 20, 2012

Nokia only provided MS the API's and map data to work with for their maps app. The lack of functionality and UI for the WP8 Maps App sits in the lap of MS here.

And if you had a "partner" like MS who is supposedly dissing you for HTC and preparing their own hardware behind your back, how would you react to that? You might be looking for additional lifelines as well.

meelahi
on Nov 20, 2012

One thong that never made sense to me is why is Nokia map and Nokia transit two separate app! At least they should at least talk to each other. Even more baffling is the fact that they provide different direction! How? Why?
Drive is magnificent though.

geeko
on Nov 20, 2012

" I am looking at the Lumia phones but when I see things like this, I wonder if Microsoft or Nokia will care about the device past six months. I am trying WP7 on a focus and like it but why should I get a WP8 if Nokia doesn't even update their own software."

Actually, Nokia and Apple are the only phone makers that update their software post product launch, often for as long as two plus years.

ariesdog
on Nov 20, 2012

Um, Paul. You're overlooking one very important distinction. HERE only gives walking directions. It doesn't give driving directions. (That's according to the reviews I read on WPCentral and iMore.com) You might be able to fudge that in small towns but not in the city or suburbs.

NetLogic
on Nov 20, 2012

HERE on iOS only limited 10mb download is available, so its not truly offline. With Google dumped from Apple, Nokia sees a huge opportunity here, with millions of downloads guaranteed. MS is bringing its best products to all platforms, example Bing, Skype, Photosynth, Skydrive, OneNote and probably even Office in the future.

For WP to succeed, MS need to make WP8 the best OS ( its actually superior to competing platforms), but there are silly things that is missing that really piss off people... for example video is not playing in WP8.

MS needs a Surface phone and a 7 inch tablet along with Samsung, Nokia, HTC and all partners it could get be beat Android. Give away the WP8 OS for free and let OEMs do what ever they want...

neonspark
on Nov 20, 2012

as a long time windows phone user I'm used to this. the bing app has always been better outside of windows phone and only in wp8 has it reached parity. and that was made by MSFT. Nokia has no incentive to make their app in windows phone better because if you bought a windows phone, you probably bought nokia anyways.

gbrugman
on Nov 20, 2012

Sorry Paul but Nokia Drive works sideway too on my Nokia Lumia 800. May by a recent update?

pthurrott
on Nov 20, 2012

I was referring to Maps, not Drive.

haikus
on Nov 20, 2012

Hy everyone, this is Pino from the HERE team.
We would like to clarify some points and we're actually happy that some comments have already recognized the benefits of our location offering on Windows Phone.

Strategy
First of all, we would like to highlight again why we decided to make HERE available to other OS. Everything has been explained on our corporate blog "Conversations by Nokia", but in a nutshell, there are two main reasons. Location is a business for us, the more people or companies use our assets, the bigger our business is. Also, some services, like traffic, depend on the number of people using it: if you want better traffic info on your Windows Phone, you have to accept that iOS users are contributing to it too.

Windows Phone maps
Yes, this app is based on Nokia location assets but it's up to Microsoft to implement all the features. The fair comparison would then be between Nokia Maps for Windows Phone (soon to be rebranded as HERE too) and HERE Maps for iOS.

Public transit
On Nokia Maps all three ways of transport (walk, drive and public transit) are included. Of course transit directions are not available everywhere, but the coverage is the same on WP and iOS. We also offer a dedicated Nokia Transit app for commuters.

Audio directions
Voice guided turn-by-turn car navigation is provided by Nokia Drive.
Nokia Maps is providing turn-by-turn pedestrian navigation, in a imminent update this will be voice guided too.

More granular traffic alerts
On Nokia Maps for Windows Phone you get the same traffic info as on HERE Maps for iOS. Additionally, Nokia Drive integrates the My Commute feature.

It works sideways
Nokia Maps is designed to be used when your smartphone is in your hand, i.e. in portrait mode.
Nokia Drive, however, has been designed to work both in portait and landscape modes.

Offline and indoor maps
Nokia Maps for Windows Phone also have indoor maps.
Last but not least, truly offline maps should not be downgraded to a minor feature. They save data costs, they deliver a way faster and snappier experience and because we love WP so much, they are being extended to all the apps (also by 3rd parties) for Windows Phone 8.

Suite of apps
All in all, our suite of apps for Windows Phone, including Nokia City Lens, which is exclusive to Nokia Lumia is offering the best location experience on a smartphone

Nokia Drive for other Windows Phone partners
We are making Nokia Drive available to all Windows Phone 8 partners. However, these manufacturers and Microsoft will decide in which countries and on which devices Nokia Drive will be offered to their customers.

nivor
on Nov 21, 2012

Great reply Pino. These bits in particular I think free Nokia of being described as "not cool":

"Yes, this app is based on Nokia location assets but it's up to Microsoft to implement all the features."

"We are making Nokia Drive available to all Windows Phone 8 partners. However, these manufacturers and Microsoft will decide in which countries and on which devices Nokia Drive will be offered to their customers."

I love that Nokia is starting to become a great brand again, and their dominance in the mapping sector is just one of the reason why I'm more impressed with them every day.

Paul, you should've bought a Lumia 920 from the start then you wouldn't have had these problems ;)

dogfish54
on Nov 20, 2012

Thank you Pino. Two key takeaways:

* Here for ios is not better than Nokia Drive, but it's on par (or maybe better) than what Nokia gives Microsoft for free ... and you get on your 8X ... again .. for FREE

* Nokia didn't give away the golden goose (the voice guided turn-by-turn DRIVING directions) to anyone, they are exclusive to Lumia.

Brad
on Nov 21, 2012

I have been planning to jump to Windows Phone after v.8 arrived, but after using a corporate test unit for day, there are some obvious holes (for a user coming from the gingerbread release of Android).

1. Voice dictation is app specific and not keyboard based. This means that the implementation is inconsistent. I can use voice in email, but not Lync. What?! While we are on voice, it is surprising that Microsoft, an innovator of voice, doesn't even support basic punctuation. This makes it of little use. Since it is up to the app developer, and not tucked into the keyboard, means this will not be fixed anytime soon.

2. Turn-by-Turn voice navigation. Google has done a great job on this. Microsoft should have jumped all over Nokia Drive. It isn't as good as Google's offering, but close. However, I can only use it on Lumia devices, which is confusing to end users. (Especially since HTC Location isn't available on 8X.) In the end, this will be fixed in time.

3. Lack of app communication. This one is surprising. One of the areas I thought WP8 would excel is inter-app communication. It blows my mind that I cannot open up Drive (on a Lumia 822) or Garmin (on the 8X) while in the Map app. I end up having to copy and paste and paste an address for this to work. If you click on a store and have a registered "Drive" application (Garmin isn't such an app) then it somewhat works. Still. Complicated.

4. Voice search/control. I cannot use my voice to do basic things like "navigate to 111 home street," "map of starbucks," "open bob smith" and many more. I am not even talking about a Siri clone, but basic phone functionality I have had since early versions of Android (or even on WM6!).

5. App switching oddities. I get new messages on Lync and when I go into the app, it takes 5 seconds to open because it has to open (instead of just switching to the app).

Don't get me wrong. The operating system is beautiful, the home screen is light years beyond Android/iOS, and it is generally a pleasure to use (email, office, camera, etc.). (HTC built the nicest hardware I have ever held.) Many of the issues are related to app problems/updates.

In the end, I will spend a week on this device. However, unless I am missing something, I'm going to commit two more years on an Android device (probably the HTC DNA).

Daniel D
on Nov 20, 2012

Could it simply be the case that with Nokia's cash flow problems and the need to generate revenue like now, that the opportunity to ride on the back of iPhone users unhappiness with Apples own map solution was an opportunity they decided was to good to miss.

No matter if Windows Phone 8 sales are going good, bad or indifferent, they certainly don't have the numbers of potential sales that a bunch of disgruntled iPhone map users looking for something better, represents to Nokia.

theboz
on Nov 21, 2012

I've the same feeling!! once I read the news about HERE I asked myself what the hell Nokia is doing!!
in any way Nokia is hurting itself, the big competitor today is iPhone, and the big problem they're facing is their screwed maps. People may come to Windows Phone only for Nokia Maps and other good stuff, and they throw them the rescuer and told them please keep using your phone and enjoy our advantage over iPhone an pay nothing!!
please don't bother to buy Nokia phone!!

fred78
on Nov 28, 2012

Using the Lumia920, I'm disappointed that after I speak or type an address the Nokia Maps pops up for directions. To use Bing Maps, I basically need to click on an address from a website or one of the local scout review/info screens.

I would love Nokia Maps - if it worked. The Turn by Turn directions (just text directions) is poor. I can either see the map, or directions. Not both like I can with Bing maps.

In Bing Maps, I can tap anywhere on the screen for a refresh. For Nokia Maps, I have to scroll away from the map, clicking the specific refresh button at the bottom of the screen. This may work in the country, but in the middle of Boston where I have to turn every 800 ft, its just a conduit for getting lost.

Nokia Maps uses the same directions for Nokia Drive. Nokia Drive the Beta version, by the way. At one point heading south on the highway (I-95) and testing Nokia Drive, the directions wanted me to exit, get on 95N, go north for one exit, then get on 95S. So that was helpful!

I thought Nokia Maps were supposed to be some great thing. And as someone with ties to Finland, I love me some Nokia. But it sucks. Now I have to use a workaround to get to Bing Maps, because no actual icon/app exists for it despite being built somewhere into the phone (and not as a default)

And is there no google maps app?

Does anyone know if I completely uninstall Nokia Maps & Nokia Drive, if Bing Maps will take over as the default?

So badly wanted Nokia Maps and Drive to work....

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